Yggdrasil vs Luxman DA-06 DAC

[Mechnutt]

Tonight I had some friends over and they brought over a Yggdrasil DAC with the Gen 5 usb and an
Atma-Sphere UV-1 preamp that was modified with Teflon Caps and some other upgrades recently by Ralph of Atma-Sphere.

We compared the Yggy to my DA-06 and I was happy to hear that the Yggy did not blow the Luxman out of the water. The Yggy had a bit more detail, was crisper and had a faster pace. It was also slightly more forward. The Luxman was more rounded, smoother and slower with a bit more warmth although the Yggy was not bright at all. Sound stage was about the same. Both had similar musicality. I think that I would give a slight edge to the Yggy. How ever, I could see some people preferring the Yggy by a long shot depending upon tastes. I don't know if it is enough to make me go out and buy it though. I would like to hear it compared to the PSA Direct Stream and the T+A DAC8, 2 DAC's that I really like.

The Atma-Sphere UV-1 was very interesting. It looks like it was made in the 1920's. It does not come with a remote. It sounded very good in my system with a lot more warmth and tube sound compared to my BAT preamp which sounds almost SS in comparison. One guy pointed out that it made digital sound more like vinyl. However, it lacked the detail, resolution and clarity of the BAT. It's sound stage was good but much smaller than the BAT which sounds almost holographic in comparison. However, the UV-1 did put out deeper and punchier although not as tight sounding bass.

[UltraFast69]

Tonight I had some friends over and they brought over a Yggdrasil DAC with the Gen 5 usb and an
Atma-Sphere UV-1 preamp that was modified with Teflon Caps and some other upgrades recently by Ralph of Atma-Sphere.

We compared the Yggy to my DA-06 and I was happy to hear that the Yggy did not blow the Luxman out of the water. The Yggy had a bit more detail, was crisper and had a faster pace. It was also slightly more forward. The Luxman was more rounded, smoother and slower with a bit more warmth although the Yggy was not bright at all. Sound stage was about the same. Both had similar musicality. I think that I would give a slight edge to the Yggy. How ever, I could see some people preferring the Yggy by a long shot depending upon tastes. I don't know if it is enough to make me go out and buy it though. I would like to hear it compared to the PSA Direct Stream and the T+A DAC8, 2 DAC's that I really like.

The Atma-Sphere UV-1 was very interesting. It looks like it was made in the 1920's. It does not come with a remote. It sounded very good in my system with a lot more warmth and tube sound compared to my BAT preamp which sounds almost SS in comparison. One guy pointed out that it made digital sound more like vinyl. However, it lacked the detail, resolution and clarity of the BAT. It's sound stage was good but much smaller than the BAT which sounds almost holographic in comparison. However, the UV-1 did put out deeper and punchier although not as tight sounding bass.

That’s why in this league, I learned is it better or different - too many options, too many variables




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[Al M.]

Tonight I had some friends over and they brought over a Yggdrasil DAC with the Gen 5 usb

Interesting comparison that you describe, yet from this beginning sentence it seems the Yggdrasil was barely warmed up. For full potential, the Yggy should be plugged in for two days.

[Kingrex]

I would not change DAC on difference you described unless my overall system really needed it. When I put my Mojo in and compared it to a very nice RT Audio, I would description like the Luxman, the difference was not subtle. The whole harmonic texture and overall realism of Instruments jumped. Not only that but the soundstage gained depth and precision placement. IMO, if you hear changes like that and it's affordable to your budget, upgrade. Otherwise stay with what you have till something jumps out and grabs you.

[jdandy]

Interesting comparison that you describe, yet from this beginning sentence it seems the Yggdrasil was barely warmed up. For full potential, the Yggy should be plugged in for two days.

AL M. .......I never turn my Yggdrasil DAC off, nor do I turn off the Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT transport or my Aurender N100H music server in the living room system. The same is true for my Esoteric K-01x CD/SACD/DAC and Aurender N10 in the studio system. They are always warm and ready to make music at any given moment. It does make a difference.

[Mechnutt]

The Yggy had been on for about 3 hours before playing and we listened to for about 1.5 hours. While I have no doubt that it would sound better with longer warm up, I still don't think that it is not a huge step up from the luxman. Upsampling music on the Lux to 352 and 384 using Bug Head music player closed the gap with Yggy. We did not try DSD.

The Yggy certainly performs well above its price point and is well worth the money. If I was starting from scratch, it would be in my top 3-5 dac's in my budget.

[Al M.]

The Yggy had been on for about 3 hours before playing and we listened to for about 1.5 hours. While I have no doubt that it would sound better with longer warm up, I still don't think that it is not a huge step up from the luxman. Upsampling music on the Lux to 352 and 384 using Bug Head music player closed the gap with Yggy. We did not try DSD.

The Yggy certainly performs well above its price point and is well worth the money. If I was starting from scratch, it would be in my top 3-5 dac's in my budget.

A friend once borrowed another friend's Yggdrasil after having been impressed with it. He was disappointed with it in his own system at first, but about 36 hours later he texted, "what a wonderful DAC!". Long warm-up made all the difference to him.

[Al M.]

AL M. .......I never turn my Yggdrasil DAC off, nor do I turn off the Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT transport or my Aurender N100H music server in the living room system. The same is true for my Esoteric K-01x CD/SACD/DAC and Aurender N10 in the studio system. They are always warm and ready to make music at any given moment. It does make a difference.

Same here.

[adamaley]

Tonight I had some friends over and they brought over a Yggdrasil DAC with the Gen 5 usb and an
Atma-Sphere UV-1 preamp that was modified with Teflon Caps and some other upgrades recently by Ralph of Atma-Sphere.

We compared the Yggy to my DA-06 and I was happy to hear that the Yggy did not blow the Luxman out of the water. The Yggy had a bit more detail, was crisper and had a faster pace. It was also slightly more forward. The Luxman was more rounded, smoother and slower with a bit more warmth although the Yggy was not bright at all. Sound stage was about the same. Both had similar musicality. I think that I would give a slight edge to the Yggy. How ever, I could see some people preferring the Yggy by a long shot depending upon tastes. I don't know if it is enough to make me go out and buy it though. I would like to hear it compared to the PSA Direct Stream and the T+A DAC8, 2 DAC's that I really like.

The Atma-Sphere UV-1 was very interesting. It looks like it was made in the 1920's. It does not come with a remote. It sounded very good in my system with a lot more warmth and tube sound compared to my BAT preamp which sounds almost SS in comparison. One guy pointed out that it made digital sound more like vinyl. However, it lacked the detail, resolution and clarity of the BAT. It's sound stage was good but much smaller than the BAT which sounds almost holographic in comparison. However, the UV-1 did put out deeper and punchier although not as tight sounding bass.

If the Yggy wasn't warmed for a period of time - t² - based on the time - t - it was disconnected, you won't hear it at its best. I know, I made up that formula, but the gist is true.

[AJ Soundfield]

We compared the Yggy to my DA-06

The Atma-Sphere UV-1 was very interesting. It looks like it was made in the 1920's. It does not come with a remote. It sounded very good in my system with a lot more warmth and tube sound compared to my BAT preamp which sounds almost SS in comparison.

I generally try not to have 2 or more variables when comparing something, like a DAC. Hard enough with one.
Sounds like you had some fun. I've been impressed with the Schitt stuff I've tried, especially given their domestic manufacture and cost.

cheers,

AJ

[AJ Soundfield]

A friend once borrowed another friend's Yggdrasil after having been impressed with it. He was disappointed with it in his own system at first, but about 36 hours later he texted, "what a wonderful DAC!". Long warm-up made all the difference to him.

His perception didn't change for 36 hrs??? What galaxy was he visiting from?

cheers,

AJ

[kzhtoo]

I also concur Yggy needs a couple of days to warm up. The difference isn’t small.

[Randy Myers]

You mentioned that you were thinking about a T+A DAC8, make sure you get the T+A DAC 8 DSD. While it is good with PCM having 8 BurrBrown chips dedicated to PCM, what it does with DSD is out of this world. They developed their own 1 bit converter. To really see it shine, if you can, try it with Roon & HQPlayer. I upsample everything to 24.6 Mgz (DSD512 with 48 Base Clock). Simply amazing.

[Mechnutt]

I generally try not to have 2 or more variables when comparing something, like a DAC. Hard enough with one.
Sounds like you had some fun. I've been impressed with the Schitt stuff I've tried, especially given their domestic manufacture and cost.

cheers,

AJ

It was a fun time with food and drink. We did not try the Yggy with the UV-1, only with my gear just for that reason. Unfortunately, we did not spend much time with the UV due to a ground loop which I never experienced before.

[Mechnutt]

You mentioned that you were thinking about a T+A DAC8, make sure you get the T+A DAC 8 DSD. While it is good with PCM having 8 BurrBrown chips dedicated to PCM, what it does with DSD is out of this world. They developed their own 1 bit converter. To really see it shine, if you can, try it with Roon & HQPlayer. I upsample everything to 24.6 Mgz (DSD512 with 48 Base Clock). Simply amazing.

Yep, that is the one I am interested in. A friend of mine has one and runs it at 512. It is simply amazing.

[Randy Myers]

Yep, that is the one I am interested in. A friend of mine has one and runs it at 512. It is simply amazing.

The laundry list of DACs I have tried is almost scary since digital is my main source. I rip every disks I get and move them to the server. Every disk literally gets one spin . The T+A is in a league of it's own in my view. It is one piece in my system that has no chance of being replaced (unless someone wants to give me a Lampi or something ).

If you can run it with Roon & HQPlayer you will be impressed for sure!

[JSQT]

Hey there, this thread just prompted me to register here! I just bought a Luxman DA-06 last week to compare with my Hegel HD30, and have been doing some comparisons and coming to similar conclusions as you and your Yggy comparisons.

I got the DA-06 just because I'm a big Luxman fan and thought it would play nice with my L-509X integrated, at a similar level of sound quality as the HD30 (which I was perfectly happy with). I, too, found the Luxman generally had a more musical presentation of the sound - seemingly allowing the entire composition to shine, rather than with the Hegel where - while not clinical like a Mytek, etc - it does seem to draw attention to the individual instruments (particularly percussion) a bit more.

I'm very happy with the Luxman and currently upsampling everything in Roon to DSD 128, and it sounds amazing. So I'm letting the Hegel go. But it's true that at a certain point there's not necessarily "better," just "different," and what your individual tastes are will dictate whether that "different" is better to you.

[joeinid]

Welcome Jeremey!

[JSQT]

Thanks Joe, good to be here!

[Mechnutt]

Hey there, this thread just prompted me to register here! I just bought a Luxman DA-06 last week to compare with my Hegel HD30, and have been doing some comparisons and coming to similar conclusions as you and your Yggy comparisons.

I got the DA-06 just because I'm a big Luxman fan and thought it would play nice with my L-509X integrated, at a similar level of sound quality as the HD30 (which I was perfectly happy with). I, too, found the Luxman generally had a more musical presentation of the sound - seemingly allowing the entire composition to shine, rather than with the Hegel where - while not clinical like a Mytek, etc - it does seem to draw attention to the individual instruments (particularly percussion) a bit more.

I'm very happy with the Luxman and currently upsampling everything in Roon to DSD 128, and it sounds amazing. So I'm letting the Hegel go. But it's true that at a certain point there's not necessarily "better," just "different," and what your individual tastes are will dictate whether that "different" is better to you.

Welcome aboard. Glad to see you like the Luxman. I really like the Luxman, it checks all the boxes for my type of sound. I really liked the Yggdrasil with the Gen 5 usb. I was surprised that it leaned a bit to the warm side. I may eventually upgrade to it and give the Lux to my son since it is a Japanese version and I may have trouble selling it for a decent price. Or I may just go for the T+A DSD8 once my friend brings his over for me to try in my system now that I have a computer that can do DSD512. I do have quite a bit of DSD recordings and they would be a waste with the Yggy.

This is off topic but-

Right now I am wrestling with the idea of selling my amp and preamp and going with a Luxman integrated or just sell my BAT preamp and buy a custom Don Sachs SP-14 tube preamp with all the upgrades and then wait and see how the Lux and T+A sounds with it. I am leaning on having the DS's preamp built and compare it with my BAT. I would have no trouble selling the BAT for $3200 or so with relatively new tubes and new Caps in the 6 pack.

[JSQT]

Welcome aboard. Glad to see you like the Luxman. I really like the Luxman, it checks all the boxes for my type of sound. I really liked the Yggdrasil with the Gen 5 usb. I was surprised that it leaned a bit to the warm side. I may eventually upgrade to it and give the Lux to my son since it is a Japanese version and I may have trouble selling it for a decent price. Or I may just go for the T+A DSD8 once my friend brings his over for me to try in my system now that I have a computer that can do DSD512. I do have quite a bit of DSD recordings and they would be a waste with the Yggy.

Thanks - I am very happy with the Luxman... curious what filters you are using for PCM and DSD? Since I'm upconverting everything in Roon, I am using the 7th Order (CLANS) filtering in Roon and the D2 filter on the Luxman. Sounds really great to me. I got a really good deal on the US version of the DA-06 ($2k) and I'm happy not only because it sounds good, but because it matches my 509X integrated (ha). I am hoping I can sell the Hegel for more than I paid for the Luxman. Before I got the Hegel, I was seriously considering the Yggy, but multiple dealers were steering me in other directions (maybe because Schitt is only selling direct - but I wasn't going to be able to demo it anywhere so that was a factor in the decision as well). It does sound like if you're heavily invested in DSD it wouldn't be the best direction to go in.

Right now I am wrestling with the idea of selling my amp and preamp and going with a Luxman integrated or just sell my BAT preamp and buy a custom Don Sachs SP-14 tube preamp with all the upgrades and then wait and see how the Lux and T+A sounds with it. I am leaning on having the DS's preamp built and compare it with my BAT. I would have no trouble selling the BAT for $3200 or so with relatively new tubes and new Caps in the 6 pack.

I can't tell you how the integrated compares with what you have now, but I'm extremely happy with my 509X. Definitely the center piece of my system. It drives everything with total control over the music and is a great match with the dynamics of my Klipsch La Scala IIs. I'm also using my CL40 valve preamp for certain music... the 509X has a preamp "Separate" function that allows you to use an external pre (most would use this as a HT bypass I assume). But there is content that just really comes to live with the valve preamp versus the 509X pre - and that is no slouch, I believe it's the same preamp as the c900u. If you're hesitant about the class A/B in the Luxman, the 590X (class A) appears to be highly recommended as well.

[Mechnutt]

I switch back and forth between the filter with no pre and post ringing and the one with only post ringing. Currently, I use Bug Head Infinitly Blade as a music player and it has multiple settings to tailor the sound. I upsample most music with it. I have used HQP many times before and I am very familiar with Roon. Bug Head just sounds so good but is a pain to use if you want to switch around play a variety of music.

I am thinking about a Luxman L-507 uXII integrated or maybe a used higher end integrated. I am currently leaning to the Don Sachs custom preamp as so many people love it.

[JSQT]

Very cool... I find the versatility of Roon outweighs the incremental benefits I may get from going down the rabbit hole of HQP or even mConnect/iPeng, etc.

Since I have the house to myself this Christmas week, I am considering doing some experiments with by bringing my Anthem MRX 720 back into the mix to experiment with Anthem Room Correction with this setup. I'll be sending the analog signal out from the Luxman back into the analog input of the Anthem, so I realize the signal will be re-digitized... but now I'm curious about any benefits I may get from ARC considering I'm sending a pristine analog signal into the Anthem from the Innuos and Luxman DAC.

[Randy Myers]

I agree with the versatility of Roon, it is amazing. However being a Roon fan does not preclude HQPlayer. Roon is designed to work hand in hand with HQP, and the improvements are quite enormous. Roon is the finest interface, music management, meta data, etc., and HQPlayer is the best playback engine in my view. Together they make an amazing digital playback system! Both are great in their own rights, but together they are much better.

[kzhtoo]

Very cool... I find the versatility of Roon outweighs the incremental benefits I may get from going down the rabbit hole of HQP or even mConnect/iPeng, etc.

Since I have the house to myself this Christmas week, I am considering doing some experiments with by bringing my Anthem MRX 720 back into the mix to experiment with Anthem Room Correction with this setup. I'll be sending the analog signal out from the Luxman back into the analog input of the Anthem, so I realize the signal will be re-digitized... but now I'm curious about any benefits I may get from ARC considering I'm sending a pristine analog signal into the Anthem from the Innuos and Luxman DAC.

Let us know your finding. I have AVM60 and never really use ARC, not even for movies as it sounds very good to my ears.

[JSQT]

I was using ARC with my frankenstein HT/2 channel system when I was running Atmos in here. It did clean up things quite a bit with movies for me. I spent quite a bit of time learning the ins and outs of ARC. But I never really liked it for music. Now I'm curious about how it would sound running pre-outs into the Luxman L-509X, especially since the new STR integrated/amps are getting such rave reviews (with ARC as a big feature). Before I was using all internal Anthem amps.

Heading out to the storage unit to haul some of this stuff back here and see what's what!

[kzhtoo]

I used to have MRX500 a long time back and tried ARC for a week, but never really liked it for both music and movie. I preferred it off. Never turned it on again, then I got AVM60 mainly for 4K pass-through and the Anthem sound that I like for movies.

[Mechnutt]

Today I upgraded my Luxman drivers to the latest version and I was pleasantly surprised at a change in sound for the better I think. It is a little darker, blacker and smoother sounding. The sound stage is more focused but not quite as wide. It sounds more analog.

[JSQT]

How do you update the drivers? Is this the same as updating the firmware on the DAC? I don't have it connected to a computer, mine is connected to the Innuos.

[audio.bill]

How do you update the drivers? Is this the same as updating the firmware on the DAC? I don't have it connected to a computer, mine is connected to the Innuos.

The only driver shown on the Luxman site for the DA-06 DAC is a Windows USB driver, so it wouldn't apply unless you have a Windows based server.

[Mechnutt]

The only driver shown on the Luxman site for the DA-06 DAC is a Windows USB driver, so it wouldn't apply unless you have a Windows based server.

What can I say, I updated from 1.040 to 1.090 and the sound is different for some reason. My son heard it too. The sound stage is more focused and it is warmer and darker. I put on a harsh recording that was not pleasant to listen to with the old driver and now it does not make me cringe to listen to it. I am using Win 10 on a dedicated desktop music computer. It did something to the sound for some odd reason.

I certainly was not expecting the usb driver to sound different. Very strange.



http://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=22

[audio.bill]

What can I say, I updated from 1.040 to 1.090 and the sound is different for some reason. My son heard it too. The sound stage is more focused and it is warmer and darker. I put on a harsh recording that was not pleasant to listen to with the old driver and now it does not make me cringe to listen to it. I am using Win 10 on a dedicated desktop music computer. It did something to the sound for some odd reason.

I certainly was not expecting the usb driver to sound different. Very strange.

http://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=22

I didn't question whether the updated USB driver would make an improvement to the sound, but was just pointing out that it would only be applicable to Windows based servers. Glad it's working out so well for you!

[JSQT]

Since I'm streaming to my Luxman from the Innuos it doesn't sound like any driver updates are needed for me. Interesting that there are updates that affect the sound though only on Windows systems.

Regardless, I spent a few hours yesterday and last night tweaking my system even further and I do have to say the DA-06 is sounding absolutely amazing. It was like church last night after finally getting a few things straightened out. I am upsampling everything in Roon to DSD128 and it sounds incredibly smooth, musical, natural and lifelike. Voices have amazing imaging... I was missing the "hanging in the air" effect from my Hegel HD30.

Further tweaks may push the envelope of "audiophile" but I do not care - the sound of the system as a whole is what I'm after. Bringing in the Anthem MRX 720, I ran RCA out from the Luxman DAC into the analog input of the Anthem and did room measurements and ARC correction. I'm running the balanced XLR outs from the DAC into the 509X and running pre-outs from the Anthem into the Main/HT Bypass section of the 509X. All good quality Wireworld Eclipse interconnects. I also re-installed my front height Klipsch RP-140SA speakers on the front wall.

End result is, this allows me room-correct & EQ my SB-16 Ultra subwoofer and use the Anthem Logic:Music DSP to send a small amount of signal to the front heights, while sending a completely virgin signal from the DA-06 into the balanced line input of the 509X. I level match the La Scala IIs from the 509X with the preout signal of the Anthem, so the bass is EQ'd and the soundstage sounds 9 feet tall - absolutely massive - with the Klipsch front heights.

For movies & TV, I use the "Separate" function on the 509X to utilize the fully-EQ'd signal from the Anthem in the mains from UHD player and Apple TV.

It all sounds complicated but in practice the results are stunning.

[MarinJim]

I bought the DA08 because I don't do USB, and could not be happier. The best SACD I have heard to date and an excellent DAC.

[aerialacoustics]

HI Mechnutt, I pm'd you