MSB Reference DAC

[Mike]

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[Alpinist]

Well deserved accolades for the Reference DAC. I am so happy with my Select II DAC that I can’t even put it into words. I am blown away by what I hear every time I turn it on. It perfectly completes my system. The functionality of the Renderer Input Module and the Roon Nucleus Plus puts all my music seamlessly at my fingertips. I guess you could say that I’m on cloud nine!

Ken

[Cincy2]

Well deserved accolades for the Reference DAC. I am so happy with my Select II DAC that I can’t even put it into words. I am blown away by what I hear every time I turn it on. It perfectly completes my system. The functionality of the Renderer Input Module and the Roon Nucleus Plus puts all my music seamlessly at my fingertips. I guess you could say that I’m on cloud nine!

Ken

Ditto! Amazing company MSB.

[Kingrex]

Why not try a better source. I was treated to a demo of The Linear Solution Network Streamer a couple days ago. Definitely an improvement to my digital playback. I have the full Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC and Deja Vu server. Both the designer of the switch and maker of my Server/DAC agree a high quality source impacts the performance of a Network Attached device. There are many devices well beyond the performance of a Nuc Plus. They just lack all the functionality of the Nuc as they are designed for performance playback. Just a though.

Has anyone yet inserted a better player in front of their Select after using a Nuc?

Well deserved accolades for the Reference DAC. I am so happy with my Select II DAC that I can’t even put it into words. I am blown away by what I hear every time I turn it on. It perfectly completes my system. The functionality of the Renderer Input Module and the Roon Nucleus Plus puts all my music seamlessly at my fingertips. I guess you could say that I’m on cloud nine!

Ken

[Alpinist]

Why not try a better source. I was treated to a demo of The Linear Solution Network Streamer a couple days ago. Definitely an improvement to my digital playback. I have the full Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC and Deja Vu server. Both the designer of the switch and maker of my Server/DAC agree a high quality source impacts the performance of a Network Attached device. There are many devices well beyond the performance of a Nuc Plus. They just lack all the functionality of the Nuc as they are designed for performance playback. Just a though.

Has anyone yet inserted a better player in front of their Select after using a Nuc?

Please take it from someone who actually owns a Nucleus Plus and has listened to it extensively, its sound quality and functionality are top notch. You are selling it way short, in my opinion.

I would imagine an audiophile server such as the updated SGM (with Ethernet connection) may sound better and will be able to handle more albums but it costs many times the price of the Nucleus Plus. The Nucleus Plus is a reasonably priced audiophile quality music server and turnkey solution for Roon endpoint DACs.

Ken

[Mike]

Kingrex - what I think needs clarification is that the MSB Roon Renderer module is a purposely built, from the ground up, Linux computer using no shortcuts. It just needs a computer running Roon Core and nothing is better than the Nucleus plus IMO.

If you’re running another DAC, then there are a myriad of options.

As companies sort out and start to build proper Roon modules (not just an off the shelf Ethernet connection), then we will see things similar to what MSB is doing. Less is more.


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[Kingrex]

I'm not trying to be insulting. I know little about MSB. I did have a conversation with a Roon guy showing off the NUC at a local hifi shop. I was asking about it's high fidelity pedigree. What they were doing to make it sonically superior to others. He was pretty upfront in saying it's good, but not designed to compete with a real server. It's a multi use devices with ease of functionality designed into it.

My experience the other day as I understood, validated a Network Renderer/Endpoint is doing part of the work. Not all, but part. The performance of the preceding server influences the playback quality. List price for a Select all set up is well over $100K. If you spend that seeking the best, why not go for all the performance and move from a $2500 Nuc to a Innuous, Antipodes, Mojo, Sound Galleries server. Feed that MSB the best darn signal you can give it.

Maybe I am totally wrong and the MSB card does everything. The source could be an iphone through a wifi router and nothing more needed. That is not my understanding how some other Network Servers work. At least I am understanding the source matters as I am doing research on if I want to add a network streamer into my system.

Mike, you sell the Zenith Mark II SE??? Have you tried it, or is MSB that different. What feeds MSB DAC at shows?

Interested to know. Thanks

[Mike]

I'm not trying to be insulting. I know little about MSB. I did have a conversation with a Roon guy showing off the NUC at a local hifi shop. I was asking about it's high fidelity pedigree. What they were doing to make it sonically superior to others. He was pretty upfront in saying it's good, but not designed to compete with a real server. It's a multi use devices with ease of functionality designed into it.

My experience the other day as I understood, validated a Network Renderer/Endpoint is doing part of the work. Not all, but part. The performance of the preceding server influences the playback quality. List price for a Select all set up is well over $100K. If you spend that seeking the best, why not go for all the performance and move from a $2500 Nuc to a Innuous, Antipodes, Mojo, Sound Galleries server. Feed that MSB the best darn signal you can give it.

Maybe I am totally wrong and the MSB card does everything. The source could be an iphone through a wifi router and nothing more needed. That is not my understanding how some other Network Servers work. At least I am understanding the source matters as I am doing research on if I want to add a network streamer into my system.

Mike, you sell the Zenith Mark II SE??? Have you tried it, or is MSB that different. What feeds MSB DAC at shows?

Interested to know. Thanks

I don’t sell Zenith. I think there is some confusion. You’re talking apples, we are talking oranges. The Nucleus+ is not being used as a “music server” in the traditional sense of the word. It’s simply running Roon Core. There is NO USB involved. No direct connection. The Nucleus’ sole purpose is to run Roon Core. That’s it. Everything else is built into the Roon Renderer module.


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[Alpinist]

I don’t sell Zenith. I think there is some confusion. You’re talking apples, we are talking oranges. The Nucleus+ is not being used as a “music server” in the traditional sense of the word. It’s simply running Roon Core. There is NO USB involved. No direct connection. The Nucleus’ sole purpose is to run Roon Core. That’s it. Everything else is built into the Roon Renderer module.


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Mike,

Is it safe to say that unless you’re using DSP processing in Roon, the digital data is going straight from the NAS to the MSB Renderer Input Module and all digital processing is handled there?

Ken

[Kingrex]

My point exactly, its the core. It matters. Its ethernet connected, same as the Endpoint I heard. It's suppose to matter. I don't see why they would differ. Its probably still an ARM processor with Linux software.

I don’t sell Zenith. I think there is some confusion. You’re talking apples, we are talking oranges. The Nucleus+ is not being used as a “music server” in the traditional sense of the word. It’s simply running Roon Core. There is NO USB involved. No direct connection. The Nucleus’ sole purpose is to run Roon Core. That’s it. Everything else is built into the Roon Renderer module.


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[Mike]

It doesn’t.

I just confirmed with the lead tech at Roon - for the third time. There is NO sonic difference between a Nucleus, MacBook Pro, Small Green Computer or whatever someone else is trying to sell you (or make you believe). It's TCP/IP protocol and they have tested extensively. No sound difference.

The difference is in EXPERIENCE. An old slow Mac/PC will hang, give errors, etc. A fast Nucleus+ will give a much more enjoyable user experience.

But from the head Roon tech man himself: none of the devices VIA ethernet (TCP/IP) SONICALLY sound different.

Now, if you are connected via USB, YES! big sound differences between music servers.




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[KeithR]

It doesn’t.

I just confirmed with the lead tech at Roon - for the third time. There is NO sonic difference between a Nucleus, MacBook Pro, Small Green Computer or whatever someone else is trying to sell you (or make you believe). It's TCP/IP protocol and they have tested extensively. No sound difference.

The difference is in EXPERIENCE. An old slow Mac/PC will hang, give errors, etc. A fast Nucleus+ will give a much more enjoyable user experience.

But from the head Roon tech man himself: none of the devices VIA ethernet (TCP/IP) SONICALLY sound different.

Now, if you are connected via USB, YES! big sound differences between music servers.

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I connect my Innuous via isolated ethernet actually - there is definitely a difference between their line of servers including the TOTL Statement all connected to MSB renderer. Quiet frankly i think there is an apples and oranges argument going on here.

[Mike]

I connect my Innuous via isolated ethernet actually - there is definitely a difference between their line of servers including the TOTL Statement all connected to MSB renderer. Quiet frankly i think there is an apples and oranges argument going on here.

Correct, it’s acting as a filter. There are other network filters out there. A few of our members are testing some now.

But a PC computer running Roon and a Nucleus running Roon and a small green computer - all running Roon sound the same.

Adding a filter has sonic benefits.


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[Kingrex]

Mike, I'm confused. Let me tell you what I heard. Roon tech told you, you cant hear a difference between a Nuc, Mac or Green based upon the hardware. But you then said you can hear a difference because either the hardware, or the software in the hardware is acting as a filter. Is that what you said?

[still-one]

Mike, I'm confused. Let me tell you what I heard. Roon tech told you, you cant hear a difference between a Nuc, Mac or Green based upon the hardware. But you then said you can hear a difference because either the hardware, or the software in the hardware is acting as a filter. Is that what you said?

The way I read what Mike posted.... with a direct ethernet connection all those devices would sound the same. "If" you were to add a ethernet isolation device it might change the sound as it "could" be acting as a filter. Some individuals are testing some of the "isolation" devices and he is waiting for feedback.

[Mike]

The way I read what Mike posted.... with a direct ethernet connection all those devices would sound the same. "If" you were to add a ethernet isolation device it might change the sound as it "could" be acting as a filter. Some individuals are testing some of the "isolation" devices and he is waiting for feedback.

Exactly.


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[Kingrex]

I feel like I'm poking a hornets nest, but I'm pretty passionate about getting the most from my digital in my comfort zone of investment. I'm not trying to be a conflict oriented jerk. I am open and listening to what works.

Alrainbow has told me many times ethernet isolation devices work. A lot better than the USB ones. He does not call it a filter. Its isolation. My server uses a JCat ethernet card. I'm sure the Innuos Keith uses has a well isolated ethernet connection as well. It may have significant PS topology that stands above a Nuc. Power Supply play a big part, even ethernet. My Linear Solution Switch made a difference.

It still says something that Keith can hear different iterations of his Innuous server. I don't believe that is filtering. I believe it is a very clean PS with a very good ethernet device providing a highly accurate and clean signal to the MSB Ethernet Renderer

I think its worth investigating if performance is being left of the table. I'm not at a level of gear such as MSB, but I sure do a lot to maximize what I have. Linear PS to my Switch. Soon to be linear to the router and NAS. Blue Jeans Cat 6 pulled though out the house. Wall mount brackets with isolation devices to hold switches and routers. OFC cord feeding everything. I don't mess with Romex wire any more. I proved to myself OFC cord is far superior as a feed from the panel to the gear. Everything get at least a Porter Port outlet and better power cord. I find it all makes a difference. Nothing in audio IMO is drop on the table and go. It all requires though, testing and tuning. If I had MSB Select II money I would try feeding it a superior signal from a purpose built device designed to only send the most clean ethernet signal possible.

I do not believe anything I am talking about would be a significant change in and among itself. I admit it can add up to a bit of money. I think all the small adds I have in place would be very audible even with an MSB.
.

[Alpinist]

I feel like I'm poking a hornets nest, but I'm pretty passionate about getting the most from my digital in my comfort zone of investment. I'm not trying to be a conflict oriented jerk. I am open and listening to what works.

Alrainbow has told me many times ethernet isolation devices work. A lot better than the USB ones. He does not call it a filter. Its isolation. My server uses a JCat ethernet card. I'm sure the Innuos Keith uses has a well isolated ethernet connection as well. It may have significant PS topology that stands above a Nuc. Power Supply play a big part, even ethernet. My Linear Solution Switch made a difference.

It still says something that Keith can hear different iterations of his Innuous server. I don't believe that is filtering. I believe it is a very clean PS with a very good ethernet device providing a highly accurate and clean signal to the MSB Ethernet Renderer

I think its worth investigating if performance is being left of the table. I'm not at a level of gear such as MSB, but I sure do a lot to maximize what I have. Linear PS to my Switch. Soon to be linear to the router and NAS. Blue Jeans Cat 6 pulled though out the house. Wall mount brackets with isolation devices to hold switches and routers. OFC cord feeding everything. I don't mess with Romex wire any more. I proved to myself OFC cord is far superior as a feed from the panel to the gear. Everything get at least a Porter Port outlet and better power cord. I find it all makes a difference. Nothing in audio IMO is drop on the table and go. It all requires though, testing and tuning. If I had MSB Select II money I would try feeding it a superior signal from a purpose built device designed to only send the most clean ethernet signal possible.

I do not believe anything I am talking about would be a significant change in and among itself. I admit it can add up to a bit of money. I think all the small adds I have in place would be very audible even with an MSB.
.

Hi Rex,

You’re not the only one who has optimized their network. I have an optical isolating ethernet filter that eliminates 99.99999% of noise on the line and has an upgraded audiophile power supply. It sits just before my Select II DAC. My network also has audiophile Cat 8 ethernet cables. The results are astounding. Music emerges from a dead silent background. The Roon Nucleus Plus in conjunction with the MSB Renderer Input Module leaves nothing on the table performance wise that I can hear.

Ken

[brodricj]

Given the performance of the network module do you see any need for a disc spinner?

[Alpinist]

Given the performance of the network module do you see any need for a disc spinner?

Hi Brodric,

From a performance perspective, no. When the network has been optimized, the Select II DAC played through the Renderer Input Module sounds significantly better than when I played discs on my Esoteric Grandioso K1/G1.

However, if you have friends that like to come over and bring discs to play, you like to constantly sample new discs or you’re nostalgic for spinning discs, then it could still make sense. According to Mike, who has both, the new MSB Transports have equal performance to the Renderer Input Module.

Best,
Ken

[brodricj]

Oh, that comes as a surprise. That swings my thinking towards D1X instead of P1X. My PS Audio disc spinner did sound better than my music server, which had me leaning towards P1X until you said what you just said.

[KeithR]

Hi Rex,

You’re not the only one who has optimized their network. I have an optical isolating ethernet filter that eliminates 99.99999% of noise on the line and has an upgraded audiophile power supply. It sits just before my Select II DAC. My network also has audiophile Cat 8 ethernet cables. The results are astounding. Music emerges from a dead silent background. The Roon Nucleus Plus in conjunction with the MSB Renderer Input Module leaves nothing on the table performance wise that I can hear.

Ken

It would be interesting if you tried an Innuous Statement server and used it via ethernet vs. your Roon Nucleus. I have to imagine the robust power supply would indeed make a difference.

[bzr]

.......
I find it all makes a difference. Nothing in audio IMO is drop on the table and go. It all requires though, testing and tuning. If I had MSB Select II money I would try feeding it a superior signal from a purpose built device designed to only send the most clean ethernet signal possible. .......

MSB made their renderer to be the next step in the hand shake with their dac. They weren't the first to do a renderer, but when they do something... it's pretty good & you can at least know it'll go the distance. The model was based on what you feed it, once it gets to the renderer, it's in house & it doesn't get better. Of course the supply matters, especially files etc, we have all been there, power supply etc. you feed it crap, it's not magic. If you feed it something delivered from a specific designed piece of hardware with the said "good" software, we are knocking on pandora's for digital here, now with the advent of a proper designed renderer that can accept a signal & reproduce it with no added glare, bloom, or tone... Everything has a signature as far as components go, pick your tone/poison...but, I believe their doesn't need to be a toll for admittance

[Kuoppis]

From a performance perspective, no. When the network has been optimized, the Select II DAC played through the Renderer Input Module sounds significantly better than when I played discs on my Esoteric Grandioso K1/G1.

This corresponds with my own experience. Ethernet through an optimized network has always exceeded the performance of a disc spinner in my systems.


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[Alpinist]

It would be interesting if you tried an Innuous Statement server and used it via ethernet vs. your Roon Nucleus. I have to imagine the robust power supply would indeed make a difference.

Hi Keith,

I realize that some Innuous Statement owners would understandably be interested in this comparison, but no offense, I honestly am not. Unlike many audiophiles, when I strike oil, I stop drilling.

Best,
Ken

[Alpinist]

This corresponds with my own experience. Ethernet through an optimized network has always exceeded the performance of a disc spinner in my systems.


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For MSB, having listened to both, I would agree with Mike that their Renderer Input Module and Select and Reference Transports, which are mechanically identical, are equal in performance. MSB’s Transports use a proprietary optical connection that surpasses in sound quality every other Transport I’ve ever listened to, in my opinion.

And as a side note, I wasn’t demeaning the performance of the the Esoteric Grandioso K1/G1 in my earlier post. It is a tremendously great sounding combo. My comments were directly comparing it to the Select II DAC plus Renderer Input Module only.

Best,
Ken

[Alpinist]

Oh, that comes as a surprise. That swings my thinking towards D1X instead of P1X. My PS Audio disc spinner did sound better than my music server, which had me leaning towards P1X until you said what you just said.

Be careful, it would all depend on the quality of the digital inputs on the D1X vs. the quality of the connection between the P1X and D1X. I always thought my Grandioso K1 sounded best when I was spinning discs. However, I was using the USB input on the K1 when I using it as a DAC.

Best,
Ken

[Kuoppis]

For MSB, having listened to both, I would agree with Mike that their Renderer Input Module and Select and Reference Transports, which are mechanically identical, are equal in performance. MSB’s Transports use a proprietary optical connection that surpasses in sound quality every other Transport I’ve ever listened to, in my opinion.

And as a side note, I wasn’t demeaning the performance of the the Esoteric Grandioso K1/G1 in my earlier post. It is a tremendously great sounding combo. My comments were directly comparing it to the Select II DAC plus Renderer Input Module only.

Best,
Ken

On the same token, in my post, I was not demeaning anything.

What I actually said, was that in my experience Ethernet offers the superior connection to a DAC when played over a high quality local network. Error correction, mechanical and electrical decoupling between file server and DAC (I am using a wireless connection) etc. are factors.

I cannot speak to the MSB transport in a practical sense, as I have not used it. But technically I doubt what you say is correct, as the units are connected via some sort of cable (no decoupling).


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[Kingrex]

Hi Rex,

You’re not the only one who has optimized their network. I have an optical isolating ethernet filter that eliminates 99.99999% of noise on the line and has an upgraded audiophile power supply. It sits just before my Select II DAC. My network also has audiophile Cat 8 ethernet cables. The results are astounding. Music emerges from a dead silent background. The Roon Nucleus Plus in conjunction with the MSB Renderer Input Module leaves nothing on the table performance wise that I can hear.

Ken

Ken, did you get a chance to try the cat6 vs Cat8 alone. I did as such with Cat5 and Cat6. There was a notible improvement. I am wondering if I need to dump my Cat6 and upgrade. I hope Cat8 will work with the Belden connector tool. If you say the sound is notibly improved I will dig deeper.

[Kingrex]

Hi Keith,

I realize that some Innuous Statement owners would understandably be interested in this comparison, but no offense, I honestly am not. Unlike many audiophiles, when I strike oil, I stop drilling.

Best,
Ken

I'm shooting for Natural Gas!!!!!!

[Alpinist]

Ken, did you get a chance to try the cat6 vs Cat8 alone. I did as such with Cat5 and Cat6. There was a notible improvement. I am wondering if I need to dump my Cat6 and upgrade. I hope Cat8 will work with the Belden connector tool. If you say the sound is notibly improved I will dig deeper.

Hi Rex,

Yes, the Cat 8 cables are significantly better sounding than the Cat 6 that I replaced.

Ken

[Kingrex]

How much is the optical isolator influencing the sound? Was that a big part of the uptick you hear with the Cat 8. Did you get the optical isolator because the Cat8 is shielded all the way through creating ground loops?

[Alpinist]

How much is the optical isolator influencing the sound? Was that a big part of the uptick you hear with the Cat 8. Did you get the optical isolator because the Cat8 is shielded all the way through creating ground loops?

I heard a significant improvement in sound quality when I added the optical isolator with the Cat 6 cables and another substantial improvement when I added the Cat 8 cable between the optical isolator and the Select II DAC.

Ken

[Priaptor]

When I went with the Goble Ethernet cable, I was really surprised. I really never believed it would make a big difference but it did and never left. Very pricey though.

[Ctsooner]

I was using two Cat 6 cables with the EMO medical filter (I liked it better in my system than the fully tricked out optical isolation set up with special LPS). I then switched to the WireWorld Platinum Cat 8 cables with said EMO....It was a large difference. Everything was better, not just different.

[kzhtoo]

I was using two Cat 6 cables with the EMO medical filter (I liked it better in my system than the fully tricked out optical isolation set up with special LPS). I then switched to the WireWorld Platinum Cat 8 cables with said EMO....It was a large difference. Everything was better, not just different.

Interesting. Which model of EMO? And how do you use it? On the router side or DAC side or both?

Do you also have experience comparing CAT7 and CAT8?

Thanks in advance.

[Ctsooner]

I’m out of the house now and would need to look to see which one I got. I know it was about $140. You go from router to device device to server. My deck is built into the server at the moment, however they are going to be pulling it out of the server and building a new toolbox unit that will be beefed up so we can compete with any deck on the market. We’ll see how that goes. As far as cat seven I’ve had many of the cat sevens in the house from various companies.

Are use only audio quest cords and cables in my system. My only interconnect that I need is there WEL top-of-the-line silver table. Or use hurricane power cords. For digital for some reason I find wire world is the best. Even their optical has been better for me in the system

[lostinla]

I have an optical isolating ethernet filter that eliminates 99.99999% of noise on the line and has an upgraded audiophile power supply.

Hi Ken,
What optical ethernet filter are you using?
Dave

[Ctsooner]

EMO Systems is the site. I got this one: EN-70e. I have found that not all optical filters make the system sound better. They all change the sound. All seem to lower the noise floor, but I have heard a friends system that is well over 150k total sound terrible. The lowered noise floor opened up the can of worms on how poor things sounded together. It was eye opening as even he heard it and was very upset as you can imagine. He know what had just happened. The last veil was opened up. He don't do analog so he never heard this.

[kzhtoo]

EMO Systems is the site. I got this one: EN-70e. I have found that not all optical filters make the system sound better. They all change the sound. All seem to lower the noise floor, but I have heard a friends system that is well over 150k total sound terrible. The lowered noise floor opened up the can of worms on how poor things sounded together. It was eye opening as even he heard it and was very upset as you can imagine. He know what had just happened. The last veil was opened up. He don't do analog so he never heard this.

Thanks for the info. Probably not a too expensive tweak that’s worth trying out. I guess all you need is this filter device and another Ethernet cable.

[Kuoppis]

This might be a tad better: Artistic fidelity LAN Isolator GISO




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[Ctsooner]

yes that's all you need. When I was told about this, I questioned it big time. I know of one person who didn't like it, but his system was very low res. Others have liked what it did. very subtle.

[Ctsooner]

yes that's all you need. When I was told about this, I questioned it big time. I know of one person who didn't like it, but his system was very low res. Others have liked what it did. very subtle.

[Kingrex]

Never mind, same product, different source

[Kuoppis]

Never mind, same product, different source

That’s probably the case. The other one is just from an audio company, and hence it costs double . Has also been lauded in audio press.

But also the EMO Systems products have minor differences. Some being class C and others class D Ethernet compliant, and also having slightly different level of isolation properties.


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[Ctsooner]

Kuoppis, thanks for sharing that. I knew there were differences in what it does, but wasn't sure. Seems like the audio device that is from a pro audio company, filters highs etc.. I'm not that technical compared to most of the folks. Are you able to share some of the things you feel each will filter? I know that some of the top digital developers I know love the EMO over even a full optical isolation system. I LOVE optical isolation. It filters the RF adn EMI. I have very very clean power with my house and system set up, plus my Memory Player addresses power in all their products. Next time Sam's over I think we may listen with and without EMO. I so wish I had the GISO unit in for audition to hear the differences as that's the only thing that matters. How much is it?

[Kingsrule]

I have a GISO (Gb version) for sale if anyone is interested PM me

[Kuoppis]

Kuoppis, thanks for sharing that. I knew there were differences in what it does, but wasn't sure. Seems like the audio device that is from a pro audio company, filters highs etc.. I'm not that technical compared to most of the folks. Are you able to share some of the things you feel each will filter? I know that some of the top digital developers I know love the EMO over even a full optical isolation system. I LOVE optical isolation. It filters the RF adn EMI. I have very very clean power with my house and system set up, plus my Memory Player addresses power in all their products. Next time Sam's over I think we may listen with and without EMO. I so wish I had the GISO unit in for audition to hear the differences as that's the only thing that matters. How much is it?

Ctsooner, the point is I am not so sure whether the GISO Isolator actually is better for this purpose. This is as the purpose of the device is to filter out electronic interference and provide galvanic isolation. Hence the EMO device should do the job.

To me it looks like the GISO is a repackaged EMO product, at least there is one pretty similar one on their German site.

The Gbit version GISO costs about €350 in Europe while the EMO is available for €150. When asking the GISO manufacturer about technical properties, to check similarity with the EMO, they were pretty coy and just told it is “optimized for audio”.

In my book, if someone cannot explain their mumbo jumbo, it probably is just that.


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[Ctsooner]

I totally agree with you. I notice when others have 'optimized' things for audio, they are often simply a rebadge. It's often too expensive for companies to make an audio specific product since we are such a small community and for a device like this, it's miniscule.

[Ritmo]

Just received my January 2019 TAS. The MSB Reference DAC, is the TAS Product of the Year for 2018!