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Thread: Emm da2 dac

  1. #1
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    Emm da2 dac

    I’m in the hunt for a new DAC and had the opportunity to hear the DA2 today at the house of a fellow audiophile. I sold the guy my Esoteric Grandioso K1 a few months back and got to be friends with him. We were chatting about my search, and he told me I HAD to come hear his newest piece of gear. The rest of the system was a Ayre preamp, KEF Blades powered by boulder 2060 amp, and the DA2 was fed by a Mac mini tricked out by a company called “your final system”... no clue who they are. It was kind of a hodgepodge of brands, but this guy seems to rotate out gear like I change socks.

    I was completely floored at how amazing the DA2 sounded. We spent about an couple hours playing around with his collection of high end DACs and transports, and I can tell you nothing sounded even as good as the DA2. Even my old K1 sounded downright flat and 2D compared to the wall to wall semi circle of sound the DA2 created. The depth and placement was simply incredible. The closest any of his gear came to the DA2 was a dCS Vivaldi DAC with the Upsampler, which has a price tag of over double the DA2. He also had an MSB DAC V, that seemed to excel in mid range and bass, but was too bright sounding.

    We listened to a few Medeski, Martin & Wood tracks that made my jaw drop. The bass line was so clear and detailed, the drums had a air around them I’ve never experienced before. Then I put on my favorite test track, Bela Fleck and The Flecktones - Sinister Minister from the Live Art album. I always find Victor Wooten’s bass solo to be a workout for a system. The DA2 handled it flawlessly.

    EMM wasn’t even on my radar until today, as I’ve been thinking MSB. That changed today. The EMM is at the top of my short list, and I may end up going that direction.

    At 25k it isn’t cheap, but if you’re in the market for a DAC, do yourself a favor and put this on your list.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  2. #2
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    You may want to add to your list the new MSB Premier. I auditioned it at home for a weekend recently. I was very impressed with it.
    _______________

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  3. #3
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    There’s actually a MSB reference on agon for 20k. If you’re buying. Go snatch it up


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  4. #4
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishphan View Post
    There’s actually a MSB reference on agon for 20k. If you’re buying. Go snatch it up


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    His ads look suspicious to me. He provides no actual photos of any of the items for sale and uses the same text for each item. He also hasn’t posted on Audiogon in 15 years.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

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  5. #5
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    His ads look suspicious to me. He provides no actual photos of any of the items for sale and uses the same text for each item. He also hasn’t posted on Audiogon in 15 years.
    Didn’t notice that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    HT Processor: Bryston SP3
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    -Kyle

  6. #6

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Love my DA2 for sure! I agree with the comment about the wall to wall sound. Never heard digital create this type of holographic soundstage. Don't know if its totally accurate or not but it sure is fun!

    George

  7. #7

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishphan View Post
    I’m in the hunt for a new DAC and had the opportunity to hear the DA2 today at the house of a fellow audiophile. I sold the guy my Esoteric Grandioso K1 a few months back and got to be friends with him. We were chatting about my search, and he told me I HAD to come hear his newest piece of gear. The rest of the system was a Ayre preamp, KEF Blades powered by boulder 2060 amp, and the DA2 was fed by a Mac mini tricked out by a company called “your final system”... no clue who they are. It was kind of a hodgepodge of brands, but this guy seems to rotate out gear like I change socks.

    I was completely floored at how amazing the DA2 sounded. We spent about an couple hours playing around with his collection of high end DACs and transports, and I can tell you nothing sounded even as good as the DA2. Even my old K1 sounded downright flat and 2D compared to the wall to wall semi circle of sound the DA2 created. The depth and placement was simply incredible. The closest any of his gear came to the DA2 was a dCS Vivaldi DAC with the Upsampler, which has a price tag of over double the DA2. He also had an MSB DAC V, that seemed to excel in mid range and bass, but was too bright sounding.

    We listened to a few Medeski, Martin & Wood tracks that made my jaw drop. The bass line was so clear and detailed, the drums had a air around them I’ve never experienced before. Then I put on my favorite test track, Bela Fleck and The Flecktones - Sinister Minister from the Live Art album. I always find Victor Wooten’s bass solo to be a workout for a system. The DA2 handled it flawlessly.

    EMM wasn’t even on my radar until today, as I’ve been thinking MSB. That changed today. The EMM is at the top of my short list, and I may end up going that direction.

    At 25k it isn’t cheap, but if you’re in the market for a DAC, do yourself a favor and put this on your list.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hi Phishphan

    Many thanks for sharing your thoughts on the DA2 in comparison to the dCS Vivaldi DAC with the Upsampler and the MSB DAC. I owned one and you are right - the DA2 is exceptional! The "air" around instruments and drums was palpable

  8. #8

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Hi Phishphan

    Many thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Emm Labs DA2 in comparison to the DCS Vivaldi dac with the Upsampler and the MSB DAC V. You said that the Emm labs DA2 (I owned one) is amazing and I concur! However, have you heard the new MSB reference dac? Care to share what you think of the MSB reference dac in comparison to the Emm Labs DA2? Thanks!

  9. #9
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Thank you for joining the forum. Sorry I took so long to respond.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

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  10. #10

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Thank you for joining the forum. Sorry I took so long to respond.
    Hi joeinid. Thank you for accepting me (I thought I had said something that I should not have said!).

    BTW, Kobol (at Audio Aficionado) recently (10-22-2018) posted: "I've heard AB the full Vivaldi Stack with latest upgrades vs the Emm Labs DA 2 with v2 upgrade. The naturalness and soundstage of DA-2 made it a winner.
    Both equal in detail and presence.
    Emm Labs has more organic sound more lifelike.
    The source was Aurender W20 and / or Roon Nucleus."

  11. #11
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    It was not you, life just got in the way. Glad you are here.

    I’m sure someone will hopefully provide some guidance. I’ve owned some Emm Labs gear awhile ago. Sounded great to me but I’m not familiar with Vivaldi.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  12. #12
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    Emm da2 dac

    Home renovation is DONE! 6 months of my room being down really sucked. But hooked up my stereo this afternoon.

    I have a DA2, with the latest v2 upgrade, that came early this week and I had it burning in connected to my N10 for 4 days.

    I still need to move speakers into exact position, and my acoustical treatment isn’t on my ceiling yet. My wife is begging me to not put it back up... we just refinished our ceilings.

    First impressions are really good. This thing sounds amazing. Only issue is all my (bootlegged) DSD is popping. Apparently converting from ISO to DSF can cause that. There’s a work around, but enough of that.. I’ll just do the right thing and pay for the downloads.

    I’m incredibly impressed. It sounds SIGNIFICANTLY better than the Esoteric K1, and that’s really saying something.

    Time will tell... but this may be a keeper.

    I have a MSB Premier coming after thanksgiving to give a whirl as well.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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    -Kyle

  13. #13

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishphan View Post
    Home renovation is DONE! 6 months of my room being down really sucked. But hooked up my stereo this afternoon.

    I have a DA2, with the latest v2 upgrade, that came early this week and I had it burning in connected to my N10 for 4 days.

    I still need to move speakers into exact position, and my acoustical treatment isn’t on my ceiling yet. My wife is begging me to not put it back up... we just refinished our ceilings.

    First impressions are really good. This thing sounds amazing. Only issue is all my (bootlegged) DSD is popping. Apparently converting from ISO to DSF can cause that. There’s a work around, but enough of that.. I’ll just do the right thing and pay for the downloads.

    I’m incredibly impressed. It sounds SIGNIFICANTLY better than the Esoteric K1, and that’s really saying something.

    Time will tell... but this may be a keeper.

    I have a MSB Premier coming after thanksgiving to give a whirl as well.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Hi Phishphan

    Please let us know what you think of the DA2 in comparison with the MSB Premier after you are done comparing the two. Thanks. Andy

  14. #14
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuen Andy View Post
    Hi Phishphan

    Please let us know what you think of the DA2 in comparison with the MSB Premier after you are done comparing the two. Thanks. Andy
    Will do. I also need to get my room back to the way it was. I’ll work on that this weekend. Lots of measuring, SPL meters.

    Even in a “raw” room that isn’t dialed in, it sounds better than any DAC I’ve ever heard.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    -Kyle

  15. #15

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Hi Phishpan,

    1. Many thanks.

    2. When it comes to sounding natural and real, the DA2 is hard to beat!

  16. #16
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Sorry for the delay here. I sprained my ankle at the Brandi Carlile show last week and I was off for a while. Still in pain, but getting better.

    DSD popping issue is 100% on the N10. No issues with JRiver feeding the DA2. I’ve contacted Aurender about this, and they’re looking into it. I had engineers looking at my unit via the internet for a few hours last night.. still not fixed. Might be time to switch media players,

    The DA2 has been playing for weeks, non stop. It continues to be amazing. The 3D sound is incredible.

    I have a MSB Reference from a local dealer sitting in a box that I’ll get to opening soon. I’m in Miami all next week for work, so I may set it up and run it during that time for burn in.

    More to follow


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Preamp/Digital: Meitner MA3
    HT Processor: Bryston SP3
    Amps: Bryston 14b3, Bryston 4b3
    Speakers: Kef Reference 5, Kef Reference 4c
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    -Kyle

  17. #17

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishphan View Post
    Sorry for the delay here. I sprained my ankle at the Brandi Carlile show last week and I was off for a while. Still in pain, but getting better.

    DSD popping issue is 100% on the N10. No issues with JRiver feeding the DA2. I’ve contacted Aurender about this, and they’re looking into it. I had engineers looking at my unit via the internet for a few hours last night.. still not fixed. Might be time to switch media players,

    The DA2 has been playing for weeks, non stop. It continues to be amazing. The 3D sound is incredible.

    I have a MSB Reference from a local dealer sitting in a box that I’ll get to opening soon. I’m in Miami all next week for work, so I may set it up and run it during that time for burn in.

    More to follow


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Hi Phishphan

    1. Sorry to hear about your ankle sprain. We wish you a speedy recovery.

    2. The DA2 requires some 500 hrs of burn-in to sound its best

    3. It's a rare opportunity to be able to compare the DA2 with the MSB reference in a system one is familiar with. Your honest appraisal would be appreciated by all.

  18. #18

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    A question for the EMM Owners/users on this thread. Well, a couple of ...

    MQA support was announced a while back for the DA2. I believe at RMAF 2018

    However, not get into an MQA debate but, have DA2 owners received a software/firmware update yet? Or heard anything form EMM?

    DA2 owners here are using third party transports to feed the DAC(Aurrender). Makes me wonder if EMM's performance could be taken higher if they had their own network rendering transport? Eg DCS Network Bridge.

  19. #19

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by mdp632 View Post
    A question for the EMM Owners/users on this thread. Well, a couple of ...

    MQA support was announced a while back for the DA2. I believe at RMAF 2018

    However, not get into an MQA debate but, have DA2 owners received a software/firmware update yet? Or heard anything form EMM?

    DA2 owners here are using third party transports to feed the DAC(Aurrender). Makes me wonder if EMM's performance could be taken higher if they had their own network rendering transport? Eg DCS Network Bridge.

    The answer is No.

    YFS: The DA2 will be given a moderately priced update to allow it to decode an MQA data stream as well. This will come some time in 2019.

  20. #20
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by mdp632 View Post
    A question for the EMM Owners/users on this thread. Well, a couple of ...

    MQA support was announced a while back for the DA2. I believe at RMAF 2018

    However, not get into an MQA debate but, have DA2 owners received a software/firmware update yet? Or heard anything form EMM?

    DA2 owners here are using third party transports to feed the DAC(Aurrender). Makes me wonder if EMM's performance could be taken higher if they had their own network rendering transport? Eg DCS Network Bridge.
    Would love to see a EMM network transport.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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    -Kyle

  21. #21
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    My dealer has complete EMMlabs system, DA2, pre amp, CD player, mono amps. It sounds really good. We compared the YG to a Magico Q5 to a YG speaker.

    Regardless of which speaker you preferred it was a good afternoon. Way better than I’ll ever be able to afford.
    Pre amp: Ocatve Phono Module Power amps: Octave MRE130 Turntable: SAC Girati Grande. Tonearm: Dynavector 507mkII Cartridge: Dynavector Ikeda 9TT Streamer: Aurender A10 Power Distributor: Anzus Mains D8 Speakers: Raidho X-3 Speaker Cables: AudioQuest Rocket 88 XLR Interlink: Ansuz A2, [B]XLR Interlink: [B]Phono interlink: Cammino Serie 1.0 - PH 1.0s Power cables: Anzus Mains Ceramic, two Pom, Aluminium, X series Audio Rack: Rack of Silence 4 and 2.

  22. #22

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordante View Post
    My dealer has complete EMMlabs system, DA2, pre amp, CD player, mono amps. It sounds really good. We compared the YG to a Magico Q5 to a YG speaker.

    Regardless of which speaker you preferred it was a good afternoon. Way better than I’ll ever be able to afford.
    Yes. After nearly one year has passed since the V2 upgrade, I continued to be amazed by it! On excellent recordings, orchestra bloom sounded just like what is heard in the concert hall (I am using the Magico Q-Sub 15. I must add that the Shunyata Research Sigma NR power cables, conditioners, the Critical Mass Systems Maxxum rack/amp. stands/footers played a large part in achieving this) I continued to discover anew my vast collection of SACDs.

  23. #23

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishphan View Post
    Sorry for the delay here. I sprained my ankle at the Brandi Carlile show last week and I was off for a while. Still in pain, but getting better.

    DSD popping issue is 100% on the N10. No issues with JRiver feeding the DA2. I’ve contacted Aurender about this, and they’re looking into it. I had engineers looking at my unit via the internet for a few hours last night.. still not fixed. Might be time to switch media players,

    The DA2 has been playing for weeks, non stop. It continues to be amazing. The 3D sound is incredible.

    I have a MSB Reference from a local dealer sitting in a box that I’ll get to opening soon. I’m in Miami all next week for work, so I may set it up and run it during that time for burn in.

    More to follow


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    What about the comparison? (MSB Ref. vs the emmLabs DA2...)
    Triangle Magellan Concerto 2 < AQ Everest < Vitus Audio SS-010 Mk2 < AQ Dragon HC < AQ WEL Signature XLR < Chord Qutest w UpTone JS-2 & AQ Dragon Source < SOtM tX-USBultra w 75Ohm Master Clock Input, Paul Hynes SR5-12 Turbo XL & AQ Dragon Source < AQ Diamond USB < Aurender N-100H w AQ Dragon Source < Gryphon PowerZone w AQ NRG-Wild < Solid Tech Hybrid < Ansuz Darkz D-TC, Darkz D2, Stillpoints Ultra SS, Omicron Harmonic Stabilizer & Gold SE < Furutech FT-SWS < Synergistic Research Blue Quantum Fuse

  24. #24

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by johndoe21ro View Post
    What about the comparison? (MSB Ref. vs the emmLabs DA2...)
    Yes, we are still waiting for Phishphan to make the comparison. BTW, Kobol (at Audio Aficionado) (10-22-2018) posted: "I've heard AB the full Vivaldi Stack with latest upgrades vs the Emm Labs DA 2 with v2 upgrade. The naturalness and soundstage of DA-2 made it a winner. Both equal in detail and presence.
    Emm Labs has more organic sound more lifelike. The source was Aurender W20 and / or Roon Nucleus."

  25. #25

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordante View Post
    My dealer has complete EMMlabs system, DA2, pre amp, CD player, mono amps. It sounds really good. We compared the YG to a Magico Q5 to a YG speaker.

    Regardless of which speaker you preferred it was a good afternoon. Way better than I’ll ever be able to afford.
    Hi all,

    You might be interested in this review of the EMM Labs MTRX2s by Doug Schneider (EMM Labs MTRX2 Mono Amplifiers, SoundStage! Hi-Fi, 01 January 2019). He wrote: "But at this point I had to remind myself that there was more at play here than the MTRX2s -- the Pre and DA2 Reference were up front. But still -- all that Meitner gear could map soundstages like crazy." His conclusion: "The EMM Labs MTRX2 monos are the best-sounding amplifiers I’ve ever heard."

  26. #26

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    [QUOTE=Yuen Andy;258273]

    Hi,

    Savakntr (Audio Aficionado, 30-12-2018) wrote: "EMM DA2 and Aurender N10 reduced significantly my vinyl listening sessions."

  27. #27
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Sorry for my delay in getting this post updated. The holidays were crazy, and I've been on and off the road for work since the beginning of the year.

    To push the rewind button for a moment. I was simply in love with the Esoteric Grandioso K1 when I had it. I put it in a very short list of fantastic DACs that I had heard to that point. That was until MSB and EMM came into my room.

    The way that each of the 3 DACs present the soundstage is vastly different. The K1 places each instrument in the soundstage with pinpoint accuracy, but that accuracy can lead to the soundstage feeling thinner and less realistic than the MSB or EMM. I preferred the MSB and EMM over the K1, and am somewhat puzzled why I liked it as much as I did. I guess I didn't do enough shopping before buying it.

    Both the MSB and EMM have very accurate sound stages, but instead of just a pin point like the K1, it's a broad stroke of sound in each instrument placement. Which creates a far more robust and extremely wide soundstage. I terms of soundstage, I think EMM does it just slightly better. I found the EMM was more 3 demential, not just wide. I found myself looking over my shoulder a few times with the EMM thinking there was someone walking into the room.

    When it comes to accuracy in reproduction, both the MBS and EMM are extraordianry at extracting immense amounts of information. In my system, which has Bryston amps, and KEF Reference speakers.. both known for being analytical, I found the EMM did a better job of pairing with my gear. Some call it sterile, but I find it enjoyable to hear every-last-freaking-detail. The EMM just squeezes ever last drop, for better or worse, out of the files I fed it. All quality of FLAC files & Tidal sounded great, and in some cases better than DSD, which is odd given the Ed's ties to that format. DSD tended to be a little too bright, and got to be fatiguing in some cases. I converted some of those DSD files to FLAC, and it solved the problem.

    The MSB did a great job at all quality levels of FLAC, and Tidal, so there were no difference there. I think MSB outperformed the EMM on DSD files, which again is weird considering the principal behind EMM's ties to that format. MSB did a better job of taming down the brightness of some of the DSD files I fed it. It most defiantly has a warmer, analog sound to it.

    I put 2 different versions of Bill Evan's Waltz for Debby on my Aurender. One is 24/192 FLAC, and the other is DSD. In listening to them both, the EMM sounded better with the FLAC files, but the MSB was the clear winner with DSD.

    At times I found the EMM a bit bright, and at times I felt the MSB was too warm. There were moments of pure joy listening to both of these DACs. They are both incredible pieces of equipment and finding flaws in either was difficult.

    In my system, I found the EMM DA2 to be the better fit. I bought cassette tapes as a kid, and a few years later CDs took the world by storm. I don't have that childhood nostalgia for the sound of vinyl that others in our community have. I think that's a key contributing factor to gear that I own and enjoy, and why I like the EMM DA2 more than the MSB. The MSB without question has more of that warmer toned analog sound to it. I'm not saying that EMM sounds digital, it just felt more resolving and hyper-detailed... and I love hyper detail.

    That's my 2 cents. Go listen to them both, and decide for yourself.
    Preamp/Digital: Meitner MA3
    HT Processor: Bryston SP3
    Amps: Bryston 14b3, Bryston 4b3
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    -Kyle

  28. #28

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishphan View Post
    Sorry for my delay in getting this post updated. The holidays were crazy, and I've been on and off the road for work since the beginning of the year.

    To push the rewind button for a moment. I was simply in love with the Esoteric Grandioso K1 when I had it. I put it in a very short list of fantastic DACs that I had heard to that point. That was until MSB and EMM came into my room.

    The way that each of the 3 DACs present the soundstage is vastly different. The K1 places each instrument in the soundstage with pinpoint accuracy, but that accuracy can lead to the soundstage feeling thinner and less realistic than the MSB or EMM. I preferred the MSB and EMM over the K1, and am somewhat puzzled why I liked it as much as I did. I guess I didn't do enough shopping before buying it.

    Both the MSB and EMM have very accurate sound stages, but instead of just a pin point like the K1, it's a broad stroke of sound in each instrument placement. Which creates a far more robust and extremely wide soundstage. I terms of soundstage, I think EMM does it just slightly better. I found the EMM was more 3 demential, not just wide. I found myself looking over my shoulder a few times with the EMM thinking there was someone walking into the room.

    When it comes to accuracy in reproduction, both the MBS and EMM are extraordianry at extracting immense amounts of information. In my system, which has Bryston amps, and KEF Reference speakers.. both known for being analytical, I found the EMM did a better job of pairing with my gear. Some call it sterile, but I find it enjoyable to hear every-last-freaking-detail. The EMM just squeezes ever last drop, for better or worse, out of the files I fed it. All quality of FLAC files & Tidal sounded great, and in some cases better than DSD, which is odd given the Ed's ties to that format. DSD tended to be a little too bright, and got to be fatiguing in some cases. I converted some of those DSD files to FLAC, and it solved the problem.

    The MSB did a great job at all quality levels of FLAC, and Tidal, so there were no difference there. I think MSB outperformed the EMM on DSD files, which again is weird considering the principal behind EMM's ties to that format. MSB did a better job of taming down the brightness of some of the DSD files I fed it. It most defiantly has a warmer, analog sound to it.

    I put 2 different versions of Bill Evan's Waltz for Debby on my Aurender. One is 24/192 FLAC, and the other is DSD. In listening to them both, the EMM sounded better with the FLAC files, but the MSB was the clear winner with DSD.

    At times I found the EMM a bit bright, and at times I felt the MSB was too warm. There were moments of pure joy listening to both of these DACs. They are both incredible pieces of equipment and finding flaws in either was difficult.

    In my system, I found the EMM DA2 to be the better fit. I bought cassette tapes as a kid, and a few years later CDs took the world by storm. I don't have that childhood nostalgia for the sound of vinyl that others in our community have. I think that's a key contributing factor to gear that I own and enjoy, and why I like the EMM DA2 more than the MSB. The MSB without question has more of that warmer toned analog sound to it. I'm not saying that EMM sounds digital, it just felt more resolving and hyper-detailed... and I love hyper detail.

    That's my 2 cents. Go listen to them both, and decide for yourself.
    1. Hi, Thank you very much for your thoughts on the EMM Labs DA2 vs the MSB Reference DAC.

    2. Your following observation is interesting. You said: "the MSB outperformed the EMM on DSD files. MSB did a better job of taming down the brightness of some of the DSD files I fed it. It most definitely has a warmer, analog sound to it. I put 2 different versions of Bill Evan's Waltz for Debby on my Aurender. One is 24/192 FLAC, and the other is DSD. In listening to them both, the EMM sounded better with the FLAC files, but the MSB was the clear winner with DSD. At times I found the EMM a bit bright, and at times I felt the MSB was too warm." I have no experience with Files/FLAC, so I cannot comment on your observation. However, I listen exclusively to DSD, that is, SACDs (either pure DSD or PCM converted to DSD) Through this format, the DA2 is certainly not bright. I would say that the DA2 is neutral sounding, i.e. if the recording is bright, it will sound bright and if the recording is warm, it will sound warm.

    3. The DA2 is an extremely high resolution dac. The DA2 is able to reproduce the subtlest nuances of very-low-level musical detail in quiet passages. What you get from these particular excellent recordings (MA recordings: MA on SA: Selection from the MA catalog - a sampler SACD 2006; and Tutti! Orchestral Sampler, Reference Recordings SACD) thru the DA2 + Magico Q speakers + Magico Q-Sub 15 subwoofer + Constellation Audio Centaur + Critical Mass Systems Maxxum rack, amp stands, footers + Shunyata Research Sigma power cables + Shunyata Research power conditioners, are: extreme purity of sounds, great and accurate timbre, great palpable sense of presence, great dynamics (both micro and macro), and great retrieval of hall ambience. And most important of all, these recordings (on my sound system) sounded most alive and real.

  29. #29

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Hi Phishphan,

    You are right in stating that the EMM Labs DA2 is not digital sounding. Tom Lyle (World Premiere Review September 2018. Enjoy the Music.com: Analogue Artisan A1 Series Turntable with Remote Control VTA/SRA Mongoose Tonearm and Pod. $40,000 USD) correctly observes: "And in a word, that is my impression of the Analogue Artisan A1 Series Turntable with Remote Control VTA/SRA Mongoose Tonearm and Pod. Music. Never have I heard such source-less sounding analog music coming from my speakers. In my review of the EMM Labs DA2 digital-to-analog converter, I described its admirable sonic qualities as being neither digital nor analog sounding, and I believe the Analogue Artisan A1 setup behaved in a similar fashion, because on certain recordings I couldn't tell whether I was listening to analog or digital, I was simply listening to music."

  30. #30
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuen Andy View Post
    Hi Phishphan,

    You are right in stating that the EMM Labs DA2 is not digital sounding. Tom Lyle (World Premiere Review September 2018. Enjoy the Music.com: Analogue Artisan A1 Series Turntable with Remote Control VTA/SRA Mongoose Tonearm and Pod. $40,000 USD) correctly observes: "And in a word, that is my impression of the Analogue Artisan A1 Series Turntable with Remote Control VTA/SRA Mongoose Tonearm and Pod. Music. Never have I heard such source-less sounding analog music coming from my speakers. In my review of the EMM Labs DA2 digital-to-analog converter, I described its admirable sonic qualities as being neither digital nor analog sounding, and I believe the Analogue Artisan A1 setup behaved in a similar fashion, because on certain recordings I couldn't tell whether I was listening to analog or digital, I was simply listening to music."
    I love it. Can’t say I’ve heard better, only different


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Preamp/Digital: Meitner MA3
    HT Processor: Bryston SP3
    Amps: Bryston 14b3, Bryston 4b3
    Speakers: Kef Reference 5, Kef Reference 4c
    Sub: REL Carbon Special
    Power: Shunyata Denali, Bryston BIT15
    Wires: Wireworld Silver Eclipse XLR & SC, Ethernet - WW Platinum USB
    Other: Stillpoint Ultra SS, ISO-Acoustics ISO Pucks

    -Kyle

  31. #31

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Hi folks,

    The March 2019 issue of Stereophile include a review of the EMM Labs DV2 (a DA2 + Volume Control) by Jason Victor Serinus. He concludes: "Of all the DACs I've heard in my reference system [The dCS Vivaldi DAC, dCS Rossini DAC, CH Precision I1 Universal Integrated Amplifier-DAC ($52,000), Aqua Acoustic Quality Aqua Formula xHD D/A processor, etc.] the EMM Labs DV2 delivered the smoothest, most naturally warm, most consistently engaging and non-fatiguing reproduction of music. Its image size, resolution, and bass were up there with the very best."

  32. #32

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Does Meitner recommend to use it w/o a preamp, as it has the volume control?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  33. #33
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    I have tried the EMMLabs DA2 in my own system, it sounded flat and not engaging, with my dCS Rossinni the music comes alive.
    My feeling is that my Aavik U-300 amplifier prefers the 6volt output of the Rossini versus the 2,3 Volt output of the DA2.

    When listening to both players at my dealers place I slightly prefered the DA2, just want to stress that listening to equipment in your own system is so important before buying.
    Moon 700i V2, YG Acoustics Hailey, Aurender N10, dCS Rossini, Oppo BDP103D (audiopraise board), Ansuz Mainz 8 D2

  34. #34

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Does Meitner recommend to use it w/o a preamp, as it has the volume control?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Yes, the DV2 is designed for that purpose! However, the DA2 + the new Pre combination will yield the ultimate sound quality.

  35. #35

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuen Andy View Post
    Yes, the DV2 is designed for that purpose! However, the DA2 + the new Pre combination will yield the ultimate sound quality.
    I guess you meant to say DA2? Then the DA2 is an event more interesting offer.

    But I agree with you, a superb pre and a superb DAC are likely to yield an experience superior to an integrated DAC with pre/ volume control.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  36. #36

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    I guess you meant to say DA2? Then the DA2 is an event more interesting offer.

    But I agree with you, a superb pre and a superb DAC are likely to yield an experience superior to an integrated DAC with pre/ volume control.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Hi, What I meant to say was that those who want a DAC with volume control would opt for the DV2 and those who have a reference quality preamp would opt for the DA2.

  37. #37

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Ok, understand. I was not aware there is a separate DV2 product.

    What’s the price difference between the DA2 and DV2?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  38. #38

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by kuoppis View Post
    ok, understand. I was not aware there is a separate dv2 product.

    What’s the price difference between the da2 and dv2?


    Sent from my ipad using tapatalk
    $5000 (da2 - $25,000; dv2 - $30,000)

  39. #39

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by imprezap2 View Post
    I have tried the EMMLabs DA2 in my own system, it sounded flat and not engaging, with my dCS Rossinni the music comes alive.
    My feeling is that my Aavik U-300 amplifier prefers the 6volt output of the Rossini versus the 2,3 Volt output of the DA2.

    When listening to both players at my dealers place I slightly prefered the DA2, just want to stress that listening to equipment in your own system is so important before buying.
    Hi, The preamp is the heart of your sound system. May I know what preamp are you using?

    The EMM Labs DA2 is far from sounding flat and non engaging in practically any state of the art sound system in a good sounding room!

  40. #40
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuen Andy View Post
    Hi, The preamp is the heart of your sound system. May I know what preamp are you using?

    The EMM Labs DA2 is far from sounding flat and non engaging in practically any state of the art sound system in a good sounding room!
    I know the EMMLabs is a very good DAC (that's why I wanted it in the first place), it just seems that my Aavik U-300 prefers a higher voltage input, the dCS sounds world class in my listening room (6 Volt output) and the DA2 (2,3 Volt output) does not do the same in my system, I guess it is system synergy.
    Last edited by imprezap2; February 15, 2019 at 12:54 PM. Reason: addition
    Moon 700i V2, YG Acoustics Hailey, Aurender N10, dCS Rossini, Oppo BDP103D (audiopraise board), Ansuz Mainz 8 D2

  41. #41

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by imprezap2 View Post
    I know the EMMLabs is a very good DAC (that's why I wanted it in the first place), it just seems that my Aavik U-300 prefers a higher voltage input, the dCS sounds world class in my listening room (6 Volt output) and the DA2 (2,3 Volt output) does not do the same in my system, I guess it is system synergy.
    You got a point. The DA2 has a XLR outputs of 4.6V

  42. #42
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuen Andy View Post
    You got a point. The DA2 has a XLR outputs of 4.6V
    Yes, It's a pity that the Aavik U-300 is single ended only.

    But not to worry, I am very happy with the dCS Rossinni player, especially after the last upgrade.
    Last edited by imprezap2; February 17, 2019 at 05:49 AM. Reason: addition
    Moon 700i V2, YG Acoustics Hailey, Aurender N10, dCS Rossini, Oppo BDP103D (audiopraise board), Ansuz Mainz 8 D2

  43. #43

    Emm da2 dac

    There’s a quite nice review of the Emm Labs DV2 in the March issue of Stereophile. It’s not yet available online, so I can’t post a link.

    This is the first Emm DAC with a volume control/ preamp. That’s good, but it increases the price by 5K.

    Positive: Emm has finally caught up with the world and supports MQA in this new product, though only via USB.

    Negative: No Ethernet input available, so a bit of a yesteryear design. For this price I would also expect streaming capability as a Roon endpoint.

    While the review is overall positive, it was made clear that USB is not its best sounding input. However, USB is the only one supporting the highest bit rates and MQA. As such I find this to be a slightly constrained and old-fashioned design, and not up-to-date with the current market.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  44. #44
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    I’d love it if EMM came out with a network streamer. I’d buy it in a heartbeat.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Preamp/Digital: Meitner MA3
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    -Kyle

  45. #45
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuen Andy View Post
    Hi, The preamp is the heart of your sound system. May I know what preamp are you using?

    The EMM Labs DA2 is far from sounding flat and non engaging in practically any state of the art sound system in a good sounding room!
    Flat? Not even close. It’s extraordinarily deep, and wide.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Preamp/Digital: Meitner MA3
    HT Processor: Bryston SP3
    Amps: Bryston 14b3, Bryston 4b3
    Speakers: Kef Reference 5, Kef Reference 4c
    Sub: REL Carbon Special
    Power: Shunyata Denali, Bryston BIT15
    Wires: Wireworld Silver Eclipse XLR & SC, Ethernet - WW Platinum USB
    Other: Stillpoint Ultra SS, ISO-Acoustics ISO Pucks

    -Kyle

  46. #46

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishphan View Post
    I’d love it if EMM came out with a network streamer. I’d buy it in a heartbeat.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    EMM is listed on Roon’s Partner page, but good luck getting someone in the know to explain why.
    Parker

  47. #47

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishphan View Post
    I’d love it if EMM came out with a network streamer. I’d buy it in a heartbeat.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hi Phishphan, The good news is that Ed Meitner is coming out with a streamer this year.

  48. #48

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    There’s a quite nice review of the Emm Labs DV2 in the March issue of Stereophile. It’s not yet available online, so I can’t post a link.

    This is the first Emm DAC with a volume control/ preamp. That’s good, but it increases the price by 5K.

    Positive: Emm has finally caught up with the world and supports MQA in this new product, though only via USB.

    Negative: No Ethernet input available, so a bit of a yesteryear design. For this price I would also expect streaming capability as a Roon endpoint.

    While the review is overall positive, it was made clear that USB is not its best sounding input. However, USB is the only one supporting the highest bit rates and MQA. As such I find this to be a slightly constrained and old-fashioned design, and not up-to-date with the current market.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Hi, in my opinion, the best sounding input for the DA2/DV2 would be the EMM Optilink interface for connection to EMM Labs transport! There are many excellent SACDs available online.

  49. #49
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    Re: Emm da2 dac

    At my dealer we compared some Ansuz cables on the different inputs of the DA2, SPDIF and AES are both very good, USB a bit less but that might have to do with the output of his Aurender N10 (AES and SPDIF use a special word clock in the Aurender, USB output does not)

    But the best sound is with the dedicated EMMLabs transport with the EMM optilink.

    Dealers set is a full EMMLabs system, Pre, Transport, DAC and the 1kw monoblocks and YG Hailey (rev 1) loudspeakers
    Moon 700i V2, YG Acoustics Hailey, Aurender N10, dCS Rossini, Oppo BDP103D (audiopraise board), Ansuz Mainz 8 D2

  50. #50

    Re: Emm da2 dac

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishphan View Post
    Flat? Not even close. It’s extraordinarily deep, and wide.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hi, I fully agree with you that the EMM DA2's soundstaging, imaging, tonality and resolution are extraordinary. Jason Victor Serinus of Stereophile enthused: "“I was won over by the beauty of the DV2’s extremely natural, warm, smooth, and non-fatiguing sound."

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