Are subwoofers bad for music? - Page 9
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  1. #81
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sandman View Post
    You're always welcome bud!
    I'm going to hide in his car trunk and slip in too!

  2. #82
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    I'm going to hide in his car trunk and slip in too!
    You're welcome anytime too AJ... no need for stealth.
    Howard

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  3. #83
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    I remember I first bought a sub...I was used to listen to a cheap small common speakers and when I bought a subwoofer and first time using it, it felt heaven. I was like a child discovered something awesome for the first time...like everything is new to my ears.

    On the downside, I later on realize that there is something lacking with the quality of sound. Subs, for me, is more of like max bass and max treble...something is lacking. It's hard to balance the sound in general.

  4. #84
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    In my opinion I would say: “Definitely, NO!”, but it requires some investment and time to optimize. When I bought my Velodyne DD-18 many, many years ago I was really surprised by the overall impact on my musical experience. Not only the low frequencies were positively affected, but also mid and high frequencies clearly improved. As the DD-18 is an active subwoofer, I was actually experiencing the effect of bi-amping. Note: more response in the low, also means more troubles with roomacoustics, so you need DSP here. Furthermore, you need to be able to enable a ‘flawless’ integration between subwoofer and main speakers, otherwise it might not bring you what you want. In my current front speaker system, which by design has two subtowers with 4 x 15” woofers each, for the lowest frequencies, I have a similar configuration. Four mono amplifiers for driving each of the four towers (2 xsub and 2 x main) all controlled via central DSP. I still however have my DD-18 which Inow only use during movies.

    Best regards, Jan
    Jan

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  5. #85
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    I've owned a number of very good speakers in my life, but only one actually produced bass that got my attention. That was back in the 1980's with the Infinity Beta system that had separate bass and separate mid-high frequency towers. It's been way too long to remember how good the overall sound presentation was, but I very much doubt if it could match the system I have now.

    I recently installed a JL Audio F212v2 and CR-1 Active Crossover in my audio system. The bass is now not only prodigious, but after adjusting for phase alignment using the crossover has a timbre rivaling the main speakers. The Raidho D3 imaging has always been spectacular in my acoustically designed listening room, but now the mids and highs have airiness and definition that makes the instruments and voices sound more lifelike.

    JL Audio customer service has been phenomenally patient and knowledgeable helping me integrate the subwoofer with the main speakers. Subwoofer positioning and an active crossover are critical to integration as is phase aligning the subwoofer to the main speakers. There's an excellent series of articles on subwoofers by a retired JL Audio senior technical support engineer here. http://www.soundoctor.com/whitepapers/subs.htm

    Some very knowledgeable people believe there are few speakers at any price point that wouldn't benefit from a well integrated subwoofer AND crossover. Relieving the stereo amplifier and main speakers from having to produce deep bass reduces distortion that allows both to produce better quality mids and highs. And the subwoofer produces bass most speakers simply cannot.

    I'm now a believer.
    ________________________________
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    http://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5013

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  7. #86
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    The last few years I was buying full range speakers and getting frustrated when my room would roll off steeply around 80 hz with a recovery down 10 db at 60 then down 40db by 25hz. Some 'Full range' speakers were -40 db by 70 hz! anyhow I got my dolly and shlepped my massive dual 12" powered sub from the tv room into my basement listening room and I was able to get really smooth even bass down to 20 hz in less than a half hr of positioning. I hated it! seriously, my house rattles and creaks, heat ducts were wailing, furniture was rattling. it sucked PERIOD

    My experiment cured me though and i'm quite happy with how musical a pair of speakers with smooth roll off after 50-60hz sounds. Maybe you guys living in bomb shelters can handle subs but I don't like listening to how crummy my house was built when i'm trying to enjoy music.
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  8. #87
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Quote Originally Posted by steve59 View Post
    The last few years I was buying full range speakers and getting frustrated when my room would roll off steeply around 80 hz with a recovery down 10 db at 60 then down 40db by 25hz. Some 'Full range' speakers were -40 db by 70 hz! anyhow I got my dolly and shlepped my massive dual 12" powered sub from the tv room into my basement listening room and I was able to get really smooth even bass down to 20 hz in less than a half hr of positioning. I hated it! seriously, my house rattles and creaks, heat ducts were wailing, furniture was rattling. it sucked PERIOD

    My experiment cured me though and i'm quite happy with how musical a pair of speakers with smooth roll off after 50-60hz sounds. Maybe you guys living in bomb shelters can handle subs but I don't like listening to how crummy my house was built when i'm trying to enjoy music.
    Simple solution that should cure at least a significant amount of the problems you describe, and provides even better bass:

    ASC SubTrap
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  10. #88
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Hhello everyone. IMHO well integrated subwoofers are awesome for music. OTOH poorly integrated subwoofers are a disaster. Using subs to fill in or augment the bottom octave (20-40Hz) really makes the music blossom. The sense of space goes up by at least an order of magnitude. If you hold your hands out pointing that edge of the soundstage with just two speakers and then switch the subs on your arms will move out another 20 degrees.

    There are lots of ways to try and integrate the subs. The higher in frequency you go the harder it is to get the subs to blend properly. if the speakers are being ran full range (no X-over) then I suggest keeping the sub X-over below 60Hz but YMMV. If you use the CR-1 to cross over the mains then you can go higher. Last year the at the Lone Star Audiofest I used a two way speaker crossed over at 75Hz with the JC-1 to a pair of JL F113's. The bass was crazy good in that small hotel room. You could play something with stand up bass and no one could detect that he subs were on. Then we could switch to something like Depeche Mode and vibrate the walls.

    Good luck with your subwoofer adventure.

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  12. #89
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Welcome to the forum, thank you for joinig.
    Joe

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  13. #90
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sbnx View Post
    Hhello everyone. IMHO well integrated subwoofers are awesome for music. OTOH poorly integrated subwoofers are a disaster. Using subs to fill in or augment the bottom octave (20-40Hz) really makes the music blossom. The sense of space goes up by at least an order of magnitude. If you hold your hands out pointing that edge of the soundstage with just two speakers and then switch the subs on your arms will move out another 20 degrees.

    There are lots of ways to try and integrate the subs. The higher in frequency you go the harder it is to get the subs to blend properly. if the speakers are being ran full range (no X-over) then I suggest keeping the sub X-over below 60Hz but YMMV. If you use the CR-1 to cross over the mains then you can go higher. Last year the at the Lone Star Audiofest I used a two way speaker crossed over at 75Hz with the JC-1 to a pair of JL F113's. The bass was crazy good in that small hotel room. You could play something with stand up bass and no one could detect that he subs were on. Then we could switch to something like Depeche Mode and vibrate the walls.

    Good luck with your subwoofer adventure.
    Well said and welcome. Can’t believe how many people encounter on a daily basis who think subs are bad and a sign of weakness in a system. Rubbish. Subs do more for the midrange and evening out the bass in a room than most can imagine. But yes, subs need to be dialed in carefully. Thankfully, the B&W subs and world class Magico subs make it easy!


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