digital backend options

[nicoff]

Companies like Falcon should offer a headless setup for audio.

Keyboard and monitor do not belong in an audio system IMO.

You can use the computer without the keyboard and monitor and use a tablet to control it.

[aKnyght]

With your DAC, you can run Roon on Windows. As far as I know, currently you cannot get native DSD from Linux-based Nucleus+ with your DAC.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roo...7509/2?u=wklie

peter, thank you for the information and for finding and posting the roon community link. i also contacted t+a support directly and their reply indicates the same -- dsd512 is not possible for nucleus or any other linux based server.

"With the Roon Nucleus+ music server we have no experiences yet. If it is based on Linux, it it is not possible to play DSD512 audio files. Under Linux it is possible to play DSD audio files up to DSD128.

We hope to get a new firmware for the AMANERO USB receiver, that supports DSD512. AMANERO already offered a new firmware, that supports DSD512 under Linux. But this firmware still has some major bugs and does not work correctly under Windows. So it is not possible for us to update DAC8 DSD with this firmware. We hope to get an updated version from AMANERO, so that we can offer an update for our DAC8 DSD."

looks like there will possibly be a firmware update at some point to address this, however, as discussed in another thread that would mean sending the dac8 dsd back to the factory for owners who do not also have the t+a mp8 multi source player (which when connected to the dac8 dsd can perform the upgrade).

[Randy Myers]

Randy, why not recommend an 8 or 12 core cpu. I think you can run HQP at DSD512 with max settings without CUDA with one of these newer multicore 8th Gen I7's. I would email Miska on computer audiophile and see what he says since he is the developer of HQP. I feel that less hardware is more with an audio computer and if you don't need a video card you are better for it. A computer with bare bones software running HQP with only a high end CPU is the way to go IMO for what that is worth.

CUDA is useful if you don't have the CPU horsepower.

You can also contact Miska here-

https://www.signalyst.com/contact.html

I believe balancing the machine, and a 6 core 12 thread CPU will do the job nicely. However for those that want an even higher CPU you can go all the way up to a 16 core CPU (i9) now. The motherboard to accommodate this is pricier, requires 32 Gb + RAM, and can only handle one M.2 drive... but can add SATA SSD drives if you want.

Therefore you are pretty much doubling the price of the machine. I felt the configuration that I recommended was giving the best bang for the buck and was one hell of a machine keeping at the $3k range. But if you are comparing against some of these "music server" machines, and don't mind being only half their price... well... knock yourself out.

[Randy Myers]

Companies like Falcon should offer a headless setup for audio.

Keyboard and monitor do not belong in an audio system IMO.

Agreed... I use my strictly headless. Falcon does not include monitors, keyboard, or mouse standard. They do offer these as options because most of their customers are buying a computer first. It is just a unique sub-set of crazy people buying them as an audio component .

[Randy Myers]

peter, thank you for the information and for finding and posting the roon community link. i also contacted t+a support directly and their reply indicates the same -- dsd512 is not possible for nucleus or any other linux based server.

"With the Roon Nucleus+ music server we have no experiences yet. If it is based on Linux, it it is not possible to play DSD512 audio files. Under Linux it is possible to play DSD audio files up to DSD128.

We hope to get a new firmware for the AMANERO USB receiver, that supports DSD512. AMANERO already offered a new firmware, that supports DSD512 under Linux. But this firmware still has some major bugs and does not work correctly under Windows. So it is not possible for us to update DAC8 DSD with this firmware. We hope to get an updated version from AMANERO, so that we can offer an update for our DAC8 DSD."

looks like there will possibly be a firmware update at some point to address this, however, as discussed in another thread that would mean sending the dac8 dsd back to the factory for owners who do not also have the t+a mp8 multi source player (which when connected to the dac8 dsd can perform the upgrade).

Yea, T+A specifically states in their manual that a Windows machine is required to play DSD256 or DSD512 with their DAC. This does not bother me since I would never have a Apple product in my house anyway .... , also most everyone of the smaller basic "music servers", such as the W4S and Nucleus are Linux based... and really do not allow for customize software such as would be needed in this discussion.

The firmware front is another story. There is a service center in GA that can perform this firmware update. But again, I do not want to send my DAC 3000 miles to get a firmware update at this point. It works great and there is no compelling reason to need the update other than wanting the latest. In my view, this is still one one major flaw in the T+A unit.

[Kingsrule]

You can use the computer without the keyboard and monitor and use a tablet to control it.

How would one do that?

[aKnyght]

Yea, T+A specifically states in their manual that a Windows machine is required to play DSD256 or DSD512 with their DAC. This does not bother me since I would never have a Apple product in my house anyway...

yep - i mistakenly took this as specifically a mac / network thing rather than a limitation of the dac8 dsd itself.

this pretty much sends me back to square one. dsd512 playback would certainly be nice to try out in my system, just not sure the diy route is worth it solely to enable this... lots to consider now.

[Randy Myers]

I love up-sampling everything to 24.6 Mhz. Even rips of Redbook CDs sound high res now! A PC running HQPlayer and Roon is not that difficult to do. Pretty straight forward actually. But you got to get what you are comfortable with.

It is actually more a Mac/Linux thing then a fault of the T+A DAC itself. The Mac does have a limit of DSD128 and most every Linux configuration have this limits also. I know there are certain Linux configurations that can do DSD256 & DSD512, but if you are intimidated by Windows then this would throw you off the deep end because you are now talking computer geek/hacker type stuff ... The lower end "music severs", i.e. things like the W4S and Nucleus, among others, use Linux for several reason... I suspect mainly because it is free , but they do not support custom configuring... and yes I have heard of some people hacking these to customize.... but then again you are now back in the computer hacker world. All in all a Windows machine does not seem like a bad choice .....

"How would one do that?"

In this type of configuration you would run Roon Server (or what I believe they call Roon Core now). No actual GUI is running on the server itself. HQPlayer has a GUI, I suppose, if you want to call it that .... but that you just run it and use it only for setting up the HQPlayer settings. You just leave it running but never use it to actually control what music you are listening to, etc.

On your control device, a computer either PC or Mac, or a tablet, iPad, Android, or Surface, you run Roon controller software. The controller software will attach to the Core running on the server and you are off to the races. From there all of your interface with Roon, what you are listening to, meta data, etc., is from the controller... for me my main controller is a Microsoft Surface, but I also sometimes use a Android tablet.

[Mechnutt]

I believe balancing the machine, and a 6 core 12 thread CPU will do the job nicely. However for those that want an even higher CPU you can go all the way up to a 16 core CPU (i9) now. The motherboard to accommodate this is pricier, requires 32 Gb + RAM, and can only handle one M.2 drive... but can add SATA SSD drives if you want.

Therefore you are pretty much doubling the price of the machine. I felt the configuration that I recommended was giving the best bang for the buck and was one hell of a machine keeping at the $3k range. But if you are comparing against some of these "music server" machines, and don't mind being only half their price... well... knock yourself out.

I am not sure what balancing the machine does. An 8 or 12 core CPU will do all the work. No need to balance as these cpu's are made for things like this. No need for a 16 core cpu.

Randy, I am not questioning your recommendations, I am just trying to understand. I sent an email to Miska to get his thoughts.

Sorry to be beating a dead horse with a stick

[Kingsrule]

Yes I know how to access Roon! U can't access HQP without a monitor/keyboard. Updates,etc. .... ditto

Not exactly what I was talking about....but I think u know that

[Randy Myers]

Yes I know how to access Roon! U can't access HQP without a monitor/keyboard. Updates,etc. .... ditto

Not exactly what I was talking about....but I think u know that

I simply use Remote Desktop to access my Music Server PC. Therefore I do not use an attached monitor, keyboard, or mouse. I have attached these during initial setup of course, but now only use Remote Desktop.

[Kingsrule]

I'm a Mac user, does Remote Desktop work cross platform?

[Randy Myers]

I am not sure what balancing the machine does. An 8 or 12 core CPU will do all the work. No need to balance as these cpu's are made for things like this. No need for a 16 core cpu.

Randy, I am not questioning your recommendations, I am just trying to understand. I sent an email to Miska to get his thoughts.

Sorry to be beating a dead horse with a stick

no worries.... going with an 8 or 12 core processor, and what would be involved would add an additional $700-$2000 in pricing. personally I felt that a new 6 core, 12 thread, 5 Ghz CPU would do a fabulous job. My Quad core Devil's Canyon CPU (a few years old now) works very well.... soooooo.... I believe the 6 Core would do fine ...

[Randy Myers]

I'm a Mac user, does Remote Desktop work cross platform?

I do not believe so, but not positive. I use a Microsoft Surface so I actually perform any RDP that I need from here. I can, and rarely do also use RDP from my Alienware laptop.

You might be able to use Windows Emulation software from your Apple... again not sure....

[nicoff]

How would one do that?

For starters, I have a PC running Windows 10. I bought a Falcon Tiki with the help of Randy (thanks again Randy!!!).

Using a monitor and a keyboard, I installed Roon Core and HQPlayer on that machine. Then I set the computer to automatically start Roon and HQPlayer when the machine is turned on. I also adjusted the settings that I want for both Roon and HQP.

I then activate the Remote Desktop utility in the Windows machine. (This is a feature of Windows 10 and will allow that PC be run remotely by other devices like a phone, tablet, etc.)

I then download the app called Windows Remote Desktop Client for both my iPhone and iPad. During install the app will identify and connect to the PC. Once connected, I can use my iPhone or my iPad to run the PC .

From my iPhone/iPad I can now access Roon Core or HQP and change settings (if I wanted to). In other words, my iPhone/iPad can now work as a monitor and keyboard. (Yes, I am using Apple devices to run the Windows machine and the apps are free!).

I can now turn off the PC and take away the monitor and the keyboard because I will not need them anymore.

When the computer is restarted, both Roon and HQPlayer start automatically.

I chose to leave the PC on all the time. So I have a “set it once and forget it” set up.

If I decide to turn the PC off after a listening session, I use the app in my iPhone/iPad to access the PC and turn it off. Then I have to turn it on (manually, via on/off switch) next time I want to listen to music.

Once the computer is on, to listen to my music, I just open the Roon app from my iPhone/iPad as I have always done.

The PC has become just another component in my audio set up.

[Randy Myers]

Nice... and thank you for explaining that. Since I do not use any Apple products I am simply not sure how this works, but I thought there was probably some way of doing it!

BTW- with Windows 10 the power button on a PC shuts the computer down properly. Therefore you can actually shut it off like you would any other component in your system. You do not have to go into your RDP program to shut the machine down.

[nicoff]

BTW- with Windows 10 the power button on a PC shuts the computer down properly. Therefore you can actually shut it off like you would any other component in your system. You do not have to go into your RDP program to shut the machine down.

Ah! That makes it even simpler if a person wants to turn the PC off after a listening session. Thanks!

[Mechnutt]

Nicoff, that is how I run my computer, with Win Remote desk top. You need Win 10 pro on the audio computer to be able to use Win Remote Desktop. It works flawlessly with no lag.

[Randy Myers]

Exactly. you need Win 10 Pro... home edition does not allow Remote Desktop.

[JimmyS]

I'm a Mac user, does Remote Desktop work cross platform?

Microsoft makes an app for MacOS that you can use to access a windows box. Use it myself to access my win10 pro box and it seems to work well.

[nc42acc]

The Small Green Computer sonicTransporter i7 has HQ Player installed and you have access via the web interface on a phone or tablet. Just an FYI for anyone wanting to go the headless route and use HQ Player.

Yes I know how to access Roon! U can't access HQP without a monitor/keyboard. Updates,etc. .... ditto

Not exactly what I was talking about....but I think u know that

[Randy Myers]

Another choice... solid product for those who are timid around computers or simply want a solid plug and play options. Not as good as going with a custom built PC, but certainly easier for the faint of heart. Very much a direct competitor to the Nucleus (+). From what I can tell, it is not a solution for anyone wanting to go all out. Although the information they give on their website is some what limited, I gather from what I can determine on their site it will max out at DSD128. I am familiar with Small Green Computer since they worked with W4S on their music servers. Always a bit of pulling teeth to get information, I felt.

A solid solution for those wanting to use HQPlayer and Roon but does not give the capacity to totally take advantage of what this software can do. Certain not enough power to allow HQPlayer to really show what it is capable of.

[nc42acc]

Randy the sonicTransporter i7 will upsample to DSD512 in both Roon and HQ Player. It runs a version of Linux as its OS.

Another choice... solid product for those who are timid around computers or simply want a solid plug and play options. Not as good as going with a custom built PC, but certainly easier for the faint of heart. Very much a direct competitor to the Nucleus (+). From what I can tell, it is not a solution for anyone wanting to go all out. Although the information they give on their website is some what limited, I gather from what I can determine on their site it will max out at DSD128. I am familiar with Small Green Computer since they worked with W4S on their music servers. Always a bit of pulling teeth to get information, I felt.

A solid solution for those wanting to use HQPlayer and Roon but does not give the capacity to totally take advantage of what this software can do. Certain not enough power to allow HQPlayer to really show what it is capable of.

[Randy Myers]

I know it runs a version of Linux, but could not find any specs on their website. Usually Linux cannot go above DSD128; however I have heard that there are "versions" that can go higher. I guess it is going to depend on what DAC you are using for DSD512. It will not go above DSD128 with the T+A.

Always good to have choices. Knowing what I know dealing with the owner and dealing with Falcon. I will stay with Falcon. But this is a decent alternative for some people.

[nc42acc]

Randy you are correct. Until T&A offer the end users a way to update the DAC firmware it is restricted to DSD128 using Linux. I asked SGC all the right questions before I purchased to ensure it would upsample in both Roon and HQ Player to DSD512. So far the sonicTransporter i7 has been flawless in its operation. The inclusion of it and the microRendu has been the biggest leap in digital quality I have heard in my system.

I know it runs a version of Linux, but could not find any specs on their website. Usually Linux cannot go above DSD128; however I have heard that there are "versions" that can go higher. I guess it is going to depend on what DAC you are using for DSD512. It will not go above DSD128 with the T+A.

Always good to have choices. Knowing what I know dealing with the owner and dealing with Falcon. I will stay with Falcon. But this is a decent alternative for some people.

[Randy Myers]

Very nice, and glad you are happy with it. It looks like a decent little machine, just not my cup of tea, so to speak .... I would definitely say it is better than most in its range, for sure.

[Kingsrule]

Thank guys I learned a bunch.....

[Kingrex]

I am about to trade in my current Mojo CAT server to upgrate to the Deja Vu. My server is a very nice sounding, fairly high power server. It has the Illuminati V1 power supply. 2 SS hard drives. Win Server 2016 with Roon and HQ player running on it. It is pretty damb fine as is usb to a DAC. It will upsample in Roon or HQ. It would output fine to a Ultra Rendu, but you would need to add an additional Ethernet port. I think. I don't believe it would take ethernet from a NAS into it, then back out to the Rendu. I really don't know that that would even improve your sound. I do use a Linear Solution switch and that does improve the Tidal and NAS performance. I have an additional 400 Watt HD Plex voltage regulator I would throw in. It has a 250 Watt in it now. It's a really fine base to start from. It is a fully operational server.
$2500.