Your Integrated Tube Amp Recommendations and Expertise requested

[Slapshot]

Hello, and thanks for any help with this. I'm helping a very dear friend, who loves music, and good audio equipment, put together a system. He has suffered some very serious personal setbacks of late, and one of the key things he has turned to, is putting together an audio system as a means to attempt to be able to sit back and listen helping him move forward. He is trying to put together a nice audio system in what he has available, a small room. He travels a fair bit for work, and has had two recent experiences listening to the exceptional Line Magnetic 518ia, and was blown away by it. I can guarantee you that he has heard some very good audio components, but has been captivated by the 518ia. If you have heard it, or read the reviews, you understand, as I do. That's a truly amazing piece of gear, especially for the price.

I have him set up with speakers and everything else to maximize the quality of his system for the dollar. The problem is that the Line Magnetic's are class a, and run very hot, even for their class. I owned a 219ia briefly, and have also heard the 518ia auditioned in a home environment and those amps, and their 845's are blowtorches. He would be using this in a 10x10 room, with the integrated amp only 2.5 feet away from where he sits. There is no other available placement. There is just no way that both he and the room are going to be sweltering after an hour or so. Air conditioning or not.

I've had the discussion with him, explaining the heat issue. He understands, though he is obviously disappointed as he liked everything about the 518ia, and especially the sound quality. Now the struggle is to fins him an option(s) that will satisfy him instead of the Line Magnetic. And again, something that won't overheat him and/or his small room. In terms of power, 25-35wpc is all he needs. His budget is $3000-3500, for a used amp, again, to maximize what he can afford.

I've already discussed this with a couple audiophile friends that are very familiar with the 518ia and the Line Magnetic sound. They are, at least initially, having difficulty coming up with other truly good options. One suggested a Unison S6, which sounded like a real possibility but is also Class A, and may produce some significant heat based on the Stereophile review by John Marks who said "The S6 performed flawlessly, though it did throw off a lot of heat". Which actually surprises me given that its using EL34's?

He has been using my spare PrimaLuna Prologue Premium integrated, in the interim, and while its a really nice little tubed integrated, it simply cannot deliver at the level of the Line Magnetic.

Any suggestions, advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

JC

[Mike]

Take a look at some of the amps from Triode Corp
of Japan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mechnutt]

I would take a look at AVA HiFi's Ultravalve tube amp and pair it with one of their preamps. That tube amp would sell for at least double that if sold in stores. Plus, they have a 30 day no questions asked money back guaranty. They also have the best customer service. I am a personal friend with Frank Van Alstine.

http://www.tonepublications.com/revi...ube-amplifier/

The amp's price was lowered to $1599, one of the best bargains around.

https://avahifi.com/collections/powe...tube-amplifier

Pair it with one of his FET Valve preamps and you will have a killer system.


A new acquaintance of mine recently compared the FET Valve to an ARC LS27 and preferred the FET Valve and ended up buying it despite getting a great deal on the ARC. It is an awesome preamp. I have had it in my system and I have 2 friends that run them. It hits way above its price point. There are no fancy chassis's with AVA gear. Everything is built to order. The Silver version has some features that the Black chassis does not have but the sound is the same.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...-preamplifier/

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...lifier-review/

[joeinid]

Great recommendations so far. Mastersound has an integrated called “The Box” which Skip on the forum here let me demo. It was a wonderful sounding piece, did run a little warm but had balls and I felt it could drive anything.

Maybe your friend could arrange a demo.

What speakers is he using?

[Mr Peabody]

I haven't heard LM, however the Octave Audio 45 watt integrated is very good. You might also take a look at Leben.

[marvda1]

I second the mastersound box

[Mike]

I have a Mastersound 845 integrated coming in on trade soon.

[Mikado463]

did I miss something ? ....... I see no mention of what speakers he is using. The synergy of speakers /amplification / room dimension (in his case it's horrible) can't be overlooked.

[CPP]

did I miss something ? ....... I see no mention of what speakers he is using. The synergy of speakers /amplification / room dimension (in his case it's horrible) can't be overlooked.

100% agree Hey JC what speakers are you going to use ?

[KeithR]

did I miss something ? ....... I see no mention of what speakers he is using. The synergy of speakers /amplification / room dimension (in his case it's horrible) can't be overlooked.

+1. Need more info

[Penthouse-D]

Take a look at Rogers Hi Fidelity....

[Slapshot]

Sorry about the delay in providing the speaker information. However, I don't know that most, possibly any of you might be familiar with the ones in question. They have occasionally appeared at shows, and are made, by hand, in Ohio by an Eastern European immigrant named Bogdan (of Bogdan Audio). Bogdan is an incredibly knowledgeable speaker designer, and a great guy to deal with. These are his Art Deco single coaxial driver models. They are one of the most remarkable speakers for anywhere near the price ($2,000.00), that I've ever heard. They once won best value award at three consecutive regional audio shows.

They are particularly outstanding when used in a small/virtually nearfield environment such as my friend has. They are 8 ohms, 88db sensitivity. The only thing ever appearing about them online is a Stereo Mojo review from some years back. I generally agree with the review, but they will perform at substantially less power than he states. I have heard them powered flawlessly by a 25wpc First Watt, solid state amp, and to any degree of loudness you could imagine with the little PrimaLuna integrated that I mentioned earlier at 35wpc.

http://www.stereomojo.com/Bogdan%20A...akerReview.htm

JC

[Slapshot]

I have a Mastersound 845 integrated coming in on trade soon.

Mike, thanks for giving me the heads up on that, it should be a wonderful amp but way out of his price range.. And with 845's, I think we would be back to the too much heat for a tiny room scenario?

JC

[Peter Breuninger]

I know the Bogdan guy, I think his smaller speakers would be perfect with the Auris Audio Fortino 6550 I have under review. An eastern European company Very little heat, he runs the 4 6550s at 50 watts per channel. Simple, compact and great sounding... http://aurisaudio.rs/en/products/amp...s/fortino-6550

[joeinid]

[Slapshot]

I know the Bogdan guy, I think his smaller speakers would be perfect with the Auris Audio Fortino 6550 I have under review. An eastern European company Very little heat, he runs the 4 6550s at 50 watts per channel. Simple, compact and great sounding... http://aurisaudio.rs/en/products/amp...s/fortino-6550

Peter, thank you a recommendation I would not have known of otherwise. Joe, thanks for the photo!

JC

[DSkip]

Mike, thanks for giving me the heads up on that, it should be a wonderful amp but way out of his price range.. And with 845's, I think we would be back to the too much heat for a tiny room scenario?

JC

I believe the one he is getting might be a generation older than the current one. The newer versions run cooler than previous ones (I only bring it up given the heat concern). I currently have a unit that is less than a year old that I am selling for $5,000 (retail is $8,000). It was a customer trade-in when someone moved up to the Evolution 845. The BoX is an awesome unit but I just sold my last new unit today and it will take me a bit to replenish stock since Italy shuts down in August. I might be able to make something happen on one of the review models though. I do have a new in box Dueventi as well. All of these amps are $5,000 or under.

I was a Triode Corporation dealer until I picked up MastersounD. The Triode pieces are nice, but they were completely forgotten by clients the second they heard a MastersounD amp. Their transformers are world-class and done in-house, so they have an advantage that nobody else can replicate.

As far as customer satisfaction with MastersounD, each client I talk to loves them and most only sell theirs to move up the line. Technicians I have talked to have nothing but respect for their design and build quality as well.

https://youtu.be/hm1hUDsgnuU

[DSkip]

As I reread your original post, I think the Dueventi would be a great fit if the Line Magnetic was giving him what he wanted. It has a more romantic tone to it than the BoX or Compact 845 and puts out much less heat than the other two. It was a personal favorite of mine until I got the Evo 300B in - what an amp that one is!

[Slapshot]

As I reread your original post, I think the Dueventi would be a great fit if the Line Magnetic was giving him what he wanted. It has a more romantic tone to it than the BoX or Compact 845 and puts out much less heat than the other two. It was a personal favorite of mine until I got the Evo 300B in - what an amp that one is!

Skip, thanks very much for the recommendations. I've never heard anything less than exemplary about MastersounD, and their quality and performance. The demos I've heard of their amplification at shows have always been impressive. I've also heard the Evo 300B described as a spectacular amplifier by a good audiophile friend who knows quality gear. One question about the Dueventi. Typically the "triode" mode yields a warmer, more romantic sound, but in this model, thats only 10wpc, which won't drive my friends speakers adequately. The "pentode" mode is 20wpc, but I'm "guessing" that's going to offer less of that sound he loves?

JC

[DSkip]

Actually in Pentode mode the Dueventi has more of a traditional 'SET' sound to it than most MastersounD amps. I've always preferred it in Pentode. The BoX is more of a neutral presentation but the Dueventi is more of that romance.

[Mike]

I believe the one he is getting might be a generation older than the current one. The newer versions run cooler than previous ones (I only bring it up given the heat concern). I currently have a unit that is less than a year old that I am selling for $5,000 (retail is $8,000). It was a customer trade-in when someone moved up to the Evolution 845. The BoX is an awesome unit but I just sold my last new unit today and it will take me a bit to replenish stock since Italy shuts down in August. I might be able to make something happen on one of the review models though. I do have a new in box Dueventi as well. All of these amps are $5,000 or under.

I was a Triode Corporation dealer until I picked up MastersounD. The Triode pieces are nice, but they were completely forgotten by clients the second they heard a MastersounD amp. Their transformers are world-class and done in-house, so they have an advantage that nobody else can replicate.

As far as customer satisfaction with MastersounD, each client I talk to loves them and most only sell theirs to move up the line. Technicians I have talked to have nothing but respect for their design and build quality as well.

https://youtu.be/hm1hUDsgnuU

I just love it when I allow other dealers on my site and they slam not only the brands I sell, but actually use and personally own in my home system. This is your first and only warning.

[Old Bob]

good morning! i do not wish to jump into any argument! but, i LOVE my Triode amp from Mike. my room is 13 by 13, and the heat is no problem. PLENTY of power, paired with Harbeth speakers model 30.2

volume turned halfway up, the Berlin Philharmonic is IN THE ROOM, and wife yelling to turn it down. super amp, and i trust Mike implicitly. maybe he can find you a new/used amp!
terrific sound!
best regards,
bob

[Mikado463]

How about Rogue ......... http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Pharaoh.htm

he could buy used, save some $$ and put the saved $$ towards acoustical treatments for his room, if he has not already done so.

[KeithR]

I just love it when I allow other dealers on my site and they slam not only the brands I sell, but actually use and personally own in my home system. This is your first and only warning.

I understand your point Mike - but banning a dealer who disagrees with you on a product isn't exactly keeping AS a marketplace of ideas. But instead of selling it like "my customers like this more now" he should have at least said why MS sounds better than Tri or whatever and kept the sales pitch out of it. Maybe there is back history we don't know about but...

Other audio forums have a wealth of dealers and manufacturers on them and no real foul play. I honestly find them quite valuable (as they usually are very experienced with various gear combinations) so I'm a bit confused why this is a big deal or why dealers have to be "allowed" in the first place. If AS is just diminishing into a dealer forum, then my participation will be more limited going forward.

I think you and the mods need to confer and make an announcement of the rules and how you want the forum to proceed.

Just my 2 cents, cheers

[Mike]

I understand your point Mike - but banning a dealer who disagrees with you on a product isn't exactly keeping AS a marketplace of ideas. But instead of selling it like "my customers like this more now" he should have at least said why MS sounds better than Tri or whatever and kept the sales pitch out of it. Maybe there is back history we don't know about but...

Other audio forums have a wealth of dealers and manufacturers on them and no real foul play. I honestly find them quite valuable (as they usually are very experienced with various gear combinations) so I'm a bit confused why this is a big deal or why dealers have to be "allowed" in the first place. If AS is just diminishing into a dealer forum, then my participation will be more limited going forward.

I think you and the mods need to confer and make an announcement of the rules and how you want the forum to proceed.

Just my 2 cents, cheers

Keith, I'm afraid you don't have all the facts and I don't want to make this into something, because my patience for this kind of nonsense has run out. His rude comments (which you didn't see) are what got him banned, not disagreeing with me. A simple apology or to have said nothing would have worked better than what he posted this morning. I have no tolerance for this level of disrespect. Look, I have no issue with another dealer coming on and saying "the XYZ is an amazing product." But when I'm the guy paying the bills, doing the work, and extending a level of tolerance to these guests, only to have the person say "Triode sucks, my product is better" and then follows up with rude and disrespectful comments, sorry, it's not going to fly. I'm a very patient person, but I have no tolerance for such disrespect.

[Slapshot]

Mike, I understand your unhappiness with what the other dealer commented on, he certainly could have worded things better. I know that I, for one, took your recommendations of Triode Corporation integrated very seriously, as I have heard several of their products demoed and came away extremely impressed. To my knowledge, they have also never gotten less than an exceptional review and are clearly superbly well built.

JC

[Slapshot]

How about Rogue ......... http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Pharaoh.htm

he could buy used, save some $$ and put the saved $$ towards acoustical treatments for his room, if he has not already done so.

Thanks for the recommendation, but while I admire the company, and what they try to do, you couldn't get further from the sound of a Line Magnetic amp than something from Rogue.

JC

[mulveling]

Sorry about the delay in providing the speaker information. However, I don't know that most, possibly any of you might be familiar with the ones in question. They have occasionally appeared at shows, and are made, by hand, in Ohio by an Eastern European immigrant named Bogdan (of Bogdan Audio). Bogdan is an incredibly knowledgeable speaker designer, and a great guy to deal with. These are his Art Deco single coaxial driver models. They are one of the most remarkable speakers for anywhere near the price ($2,000.00), that I've ever heard. They once won best value award at three consecutive regional audio shows.

They are particularly outstanding when used in a small/virtually nearfield environment such as my friend has. They are 8 ohms, 88db sensitivity. The only thing ever appearing about them online is a Stereo Mojo review from some years back. I generally agree with the review, but they will perform at substantially less power than he states. I have heard them powered flawlessly by a 25wpc First Watt, solid state amp, and to any degree of loudness you could imagine with the little PrimaLuna integrated that I mentioned earlier at 35wpc.

http://www.stereomojo.com/Bogdan%20A...akerReview.htm

JC

Can't help you with the integrated question, but funny you mention Bogdan! In 2003 I was just starting out in audiophile stuff, and bought a new set of his "Silver Princess" cables for $90; holy crap they were awesome for the money: pure solid silver conductors (a fairly thick gauge too) in large teflon air tubes with Eichmann bullet RCAs. The amount of air in the tubes was comparable to what AudioQuest uses in their Wild Blue Yonder line, which costs 4500 for a meter! My friend has a set of Bogdan's higher-end Spirit cables (~350 / 1m) from the same era, with a more complex geometry/arrangement, and still loves them. Wish I could still buy these cables at those prices; I'd consider recouping money on my expensive AQ's to "downgrade"!

I think there's a pretty good chance his current products are a great value, too.

[Jack]

Slapshot, you might want to take a look at this Raven integrated for sale on Audio Circle.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156481.0

[Devg]

I have heard the big Triode Corp amps many times at the audio shows and nothing sounded better to my ears than the room playing them. They are just fantastic. If I had the budget for these big Triode monos, I would buy in a heartbeat. There are many youtube videos playing them at the shows - check them out.

[Mr Peabody]

YouTube?! No.... you didn't

I have heard the big Triode Corp amps many times at the audio shows and nothing sounded better to my ears than the room playing them. They are just fantastic. If I had the budget for these big Triode monos, I would buy in a heartbeat. There are many youtube videos playing them at the shows - check them out.

[Devg]

YouTube?! No.... you didn't

AVshowreports has done couple of videos on them. I didn't meant to absolutely judge the sound quality but give some idea. Since all his videos are taken by the same camera, you can get a "relative" measure using a good quality headphone. Believe me, I have the same speakers at home as what they pair in the shows but the level of refinement with the Triop Corp is exceptional.

[Mr Peabody]

Just giving you a hard time. If you read that thread about, "should you comment if yu haven't heard the gear" you'd understand. There's a bit of a tangent on those who listen to gear via YouTube.

AVshowreports has done couple of videos on them. I didn't meant to absolutely judge the sound quality but give some idea. Since all his videos are taken by the same camera, you can get a "relative" measure using a good quality headphone. Believe me, I have the same speakers at home as what they pair in the shows but the level of refinement with the Triop Corp is exceptional.

[Slapshot]

I have heard the big Triode Corp amps many times at the audio shows and nothing sounded better to my ears than the room playing them. They are just fantastic. If I had the budget for these big Triode monos, I would buy in a heartbeat. There are many youtube videos playing them at the shows - check them out.

I greatly admire the Triode amps, and have also heard how great the big ones sound at shows. The issue is that anything that would really work for my friend is simply too expensive for his budget.

JC

[Mordante]

I have never owned a Tube amp. Pre, Power or Integrated. I had a Octave V110 on loan for a while. It sounded good, not better then my SS integrated amp. But still good.

What I like about Octave is that it doesn't have a overly tube sound.

[68hifiamplification]

I always recommend the Devialet Expert Pro Integrated amplifiers, they make my Bowers and wilkins sound like something out of this world. I bought them a few months ago from the Devialet NYC soho store and got them hooked up to my 802's. They even do at-home and store demonstrations if you call their Soho location

[Mr Peabody]

Agree, to me the Octave had some tube presence with control of SS, it's even better with the upgraded power supply.

I haven't heard your brand of amp, it must be good though.

I have never owned a Tube amp. Pre, Power or Integrated. I had a Octave V110 on loan for a while. It sounded good, not better then my SS integrated amp. But still good.

What I like about Octave is that it doesn't have a overly tube sound.