Munich High End 2018

**wizard** · May 11, 2018, 03:23 PM

**Elztalbiker** · May 11, 2018, 04:07 PM

Goebel with CH Precision best of show

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**ashandger** · May 11, 2018, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by walesi

Yesterday Raidho had the new TD 4.8s playing. They still have the Michael Børresen sound.

I decided to spare you from the M6 video, cause they played Dire Straits when I was there. At least they played music now, compared with sounds they played thursday morning with the A3:s. I’m sure it was technically music, but I still don’ t know how the A3:s reproduce real music.

The M6:s, oh boy. OH BOY. Kuoppis has it right, they were worth the trip three times over. If you feed them with harsh- sounding stuff, they sound harsh, that’s what I learned today afternoon. Morning, they were let’s-go-home-you-just-spoiled-the-show-for-me -good. One just wonders what they’ll do in Magicos own demo room.

Btw, the new 310 000 eur Marten Coltrane Momento 2:s weren’ too shabby, either. Neither were the Zellaton Statements.

MBL room was PACKED today, as usual on public days. They had the usual setup, and boy does it make an enormous holographic soundstage. Imaging... hmm. Never mind. The stories are good, music excellent.worth trying to squeeze in if you end up in The show.

This year friday was even busier than last year, let’s see what happens tomorrow.

I missed the Sharks dinner, bummer. Have fun guys!

Many thanks for the feedback. Please share the M6 video if you still have it? Many thanks

**Priaptor** · May 11, 2018, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Elztalbiker

Goebel with CH Precision best of show

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Would love to hear more about these

**Kuoppis** · May 11, 2018, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Elztalbiker

Goebel with CH Precision best of show

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This year I saw three Goebel presentations and must say I was more impressed last year.

With the humongous speakers I heard right after Magico M6s. Soundstage and detail was maybe half of what I heard in the other room. The design of these is also not my cup of tea, while I do like the white ones.

There was also another presentation with the tall white Goebels with a Vitus Master series amp, but the presentation sounded slightly flat. It might be because, if I remember correctly, it was w/o the separate subs.

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**Kuoppis** · May 11, 2018, 10:00 PM

Best of show for me this year was Magico M6 with Soulution and analog playback.

It was the best of show, hands-down, laying on the floor, with closed eyes and not fighting back.

What made it great was the level of realism. Details in abundance w/o being fatiguing or harsh, great bass that was full but not bloated or boomy and music that filled the room like the largest MBLs, but pressurizing the room a bit better due to the design principle.

Maybe best non-life music I have experienced so far. Color me impressed.

Jeff Fritz from Soundstage went in just as I left. Will be interesting to hear his view.

YMMV.

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**Alectiong** · May 11, 2018, 10:57 PM

Anyone heard the Rockport Lyra speakers? Any impressions?

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**XV-1** · May 12, 2018, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by wizard

How does this table actually work? looks amazing.

**XV-1** · May 12, 2018, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by wizard

How did this system sound?

**XV-1** · May 12, 2018, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by wizard

How did this room sound? specifically the table.

**GiorgioNuvolari** · May 12, 2018, 02:19 AM

I would agree with Kuoppis, Göbel did not sound particularly good in either of the rooms they were playing, which was a bit disappointing for me personally as I had great expectations.
Rockport sounded very good on the timbres and tonality, however the soundstage was collapsed, same effect in both rooms, one with ss other with tubed amplification.
Wilson Benesch was also not as expected, with bright top end.
Magico was super.

**kzhtoo** · May 12, 2018, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by GiorgioNuvolari

I would agree with Kuoppis, Göbel did not sound particularly good in either of the rooms they were playing, which was a bit disappointing for me personally as I had great expectations.
Rockport sounded very good on the timbres and tonality, however the soundstage was collapsed, same effect in both rooms, one with ss other with tubed amplification.
Wilson Benesch was also not as expected, with bright top end.
Magico was super.

One word. Sealed.

**GiorgioNuvolari** · May 12, 2018, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

One word. Sealed.

Exactly. I understand that some people prefer ported, but for me there is no contest.

Although, I have to admit that the new PMC sounded super impressive. I would like to hear that speaker with some serious amplification.

**tube-vds** · May 12, 2018, 03:20 AM

Surroundet by natural sound. Best room for me:

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**Kuoppis** · May 12, 2018, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by tube-vds

Surroundet by natural sound. Best room for me:

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Liked that room as well.

Personally prefer a little more power and definition in the bass though.

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**soastrup** · May 12, 2018, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by walesi

And, on to the bummer section. Gryphon has only static display this year.

Their new preamp LOOKS nice tho.

That put an end to the size-of-listening-group discussion! Thanks for sharing photos and impressions to all of you.

Any pictures and impression from the Aida 2`s?

S

**AJR** · May 12, 2018, 03:56 AM

Agree - thanks to everyone for posting MHH photos and impressions!

**Kuoppis** · May 12, 2018, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by soastrup

That put an end to the size-of-listening-group discussion!

S

Agreed. They just seem not to be able to get it right.

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**Rob181** · May 12, 2018, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

MSB Reference DAC with MQA Renderer module playing from Roon, together with SGR speakers (same group).

SGR comes from the Land Downunder....

**Kuoppis** · May 12, 2018, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by Rob181

SGR comes from the Land Downunder....

Lots of good stuff comes from there IMHO. Was just not familiar with them.

From what I understand they are part of the same group as MSB.

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**Rob181** · May 12, 2018, 04:59 AM

[QUOTE=Kuoppis;238660]Lots of good stuff comes from there IMHO. Was just not familiar with them.

From what I understand they are part of the same group as MSB. QUOTE]

No...SGR are distributor/reseller for Brinkman in AUS...

https://www.sgrloudspeakers.com/

**Kuoppis** · May 12, 2018, 05:09 AM

[QUOTE=Rob181;238661]

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Lots of good stuff comes from there IMHO. Was just not familiar with them.

From what I understand they are part of the same group as MSB. QUOTE]

No...SGR are distributor/reseller for Brinkman in AUS...

https://www.sgrloudspeakers.com/

Just relaying back what the MSB reps told me in Munich.

Based on the website, what I can see they seem to offer audio racks and speakers. But the company was news to me.

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**Rob181** · May 12, 2018, 05:32 AM

[QUOTE=Kuoppis;238662]

Originally Posted by Rob181

Just relaying back what the MSB reps told me in Munich.

All good...thank so much for your photos & thoughts on Munich...
It is very much appreciated...

**Glareskin** · May 12, 2018, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by tube-vds

Surroundet by natural sound. Best room for me:

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What is the speaker brand?

**heihei** · May 12, 2018, 07:09 AM

Highlights for me.....

Audionet Stern / Heisenberg into Dynaudio Evidence - control, precision, lifelike, but still with great musicality and timbre. Spinetingling on both occasions we visited.
Audiovector - new R8 maintains the sweetness of the ribbon I've heard before in the SR6 range but adds great percussive bass from the flagship R11 at a more approachable price. Ole also plays decent music at proper volumes too!
Both Stenheim rooms, especially the Alumine 5 which sounded so "right" every time we entered. Not the most detailed presentation but engaging and musical.
Grandprix Audio room with their Monaco 2 turntable playing into the CH I1 integrated and Apertura speakers. This system epitomised how good a small (albeit expensive) system can sound when put together with care. Roy Gregory's demo of the value of curve choices in a phono stage was eye-opening too.

Disappointments....
Huge speakers that lacked any intimacy.
Poor music for demos - seemed far more dull jazz (and I like jazz) than last year.
People talking loudly in demos.
Rooms with no kit being played.

**heihei** · May 12, 2018, 07:10 AM

Reply to Hans.....

Kawero!

Very good room again. If anything, their new standmount was even more impressive.

**GiorgioNuvolari** · May 12, 2018, 07:31 AM

Kawero had the best sound for chamber classical music. It was unbelievable. Not so sure it would do well with Daft Punk.
There were other rooms where the systems excelled with a particular kind of music, but did not do so well (to put it kindly) with other types. Mbl Radialstrahler comes to mind.
I left the show with deep respect for systems that exceeded the bar all around.
For me, the most amazing performance was at the Marriott, where the parallel, kind of underground show took place.
FM Acoustics show was unbelievable. Vinyl sourced, from Queen to Rachmaninoff. Wow.

**Kuoppis** · May 12, 2018, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Glareskin

What is the speaker brand?

Kawero.

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**SCAudiophile** · May 12, 2018, 09:35 AM

It would be helpful if the pictures had captions listing the gear, stands, speakers, etc....there are quite a few things in each picture that many of us (or at least I) don't recognize.

**Mike** · May 12, 2018, 09:58 AM

Thank you guys for the awesome pics and feedback on the Munich show. I plan on attending again next year. Couldn’t go this year as my wife is writing exams. Hey, somebody has to be the responsible one in the family! LOL.

And kuoppis, I still owe you that breakfast! I’ll stick with my yogurt and coffee and you can have the traditional German breakfast. I’ll be sure to bring the defibrillator this time.

**CPP** · May 12, 2018, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Thank you guys for the awesome pics and feedback on the Munich show. I plan on attending again next year. Couldn’t go this year as my wife is writing exams. Hey, somebody has to be the responsible one in the family! LOL.

And kuoppis, I still owe you that breakfast! I’ll stick with my yogurt and coffee and you can have the traditional German breakfast. I’ll be sure to bring the defibrillator this time.

ya mean bread, toast, and/or rolls, marmalade, honey, eggs, cold meats, such as ham and salami, various cheeses, all washed down with a strong cup or pot of tea or coffee, sounds yummy

**Mike** · May 12, 2018, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by CPP

ya mean bread, toast, and/or rolls, marmalade, honey, eggs, cold meats, such as ham and salami, various cheeses, all washed down with a strong cup or pot of tea or coffee, sounds yummy

I witnessed it last year. It was all that and more. Plus a beer the size of a gas can. I told Kouppis I would be in a comatose state for the rest of the day if I ate that. Plus, as you walk around Munich, regardless of what time of day it is, people are offering you beer. I remember going into the T+A room at 10:15am and being strongly encourage to drink a beer as tall as my arm. At Munich, they usually have a big room for gear and another big room next to it that’s turned into a bar area! Awesome!

**Priaptor** · May 12, 2018, 10:12 AM

[QUOTE=Kuoppis;238662]

Originally Posted by Rob181

Just relaying back what the MSB reps told me in Munich.

Based on the website, what I can see they seem to offer audio racks and speakers. But the company was news to me.

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My understanding is that SGR is making the racks for MSB. They are customizing the platforms as you can see when comparing the rack on the MSB site (and in the pictures) versus the SGR website.

http://www.msbtechnology.com/accessories/ref-rack/

Front-Reference-Rack.jpg

I was thinking about getting one as I am in the midst of minimalizing my room since I am using the MSB as a pre direct into my CH M1, so wanted the CH on one side and a small footprint two platform MSB on the other. Then I saw the price of the rack. ON the SGR, they have it listed as 4200, BUT then the fine print says per platform. So with the additional footers MSB includes it is pretty much the same price but the MSB platforms as you can see from the site, have cutouts for better ventilation for their gear.

**CPP** · May 12, 2018, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

I witnessed it last year. It was all that and more. Plus a beer the size of a gas can. I told Kouppis I would be in a comatose state for the rest of the day if I ate that. Plus, as you walk around Munich, regardless of what time of day it is, people are offering you beer. I remember going into the T+A room at 10:15am and being strongly encourage to drink a beer as tall as my arm. At Munich, they usually have a big room for gear and another big room next to it that’s turned into a bar area! Awesome!

You know that does sound rather exciting

**Kuoppis** · May 12, 2018, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Thank you guys for the awesome pics and feedback on the Munich show. I plan on attending again next year. Couldn’t go this year as my wife is writing exams. Hey, somebody has to be the responsible one in the family! LOL.

And kuoppis, I still owe you that breakfast! I’ll stick with my yogurt and coffee and you can have the traditional German breakfast. I’ll be sure to bring the defibrillator this time.

Deal! Looking forward to it.

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**Kuoppis** · May 12, 2018, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by CPP

ya mean bread, toast, and/or rolls, marmalade, honey, eggs, cold meats, such as ham and salami, various cheeses, all washed down with a strong cup or pot of tea or coffee, sounds yummy

That sounds just like it

.

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**Kuoppis** · May 12, 2018, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

I witnessed it last year. It was all that and more. Plus a beer the size of a gas can. I told Kouppis I would be in a comatose state for the rest of the day if I ate that. Plus, as you walk around Munich, regardless of what time of day it is, people are offering you beer. I remember going into the T+A room at 10:15am and being strongly encourage to drink a beer as tall as my arm. At Munich, they usually have a big room for gear and another big room next to it that’s turned into a bar area! Awesome!

Yeah well, Mike, beer is not considered alcohol here

. And traditionally it is even correct: Monks brewed strong nutritious beer to get them through the fastening period.

And the traditional Bavarian Weißwurst and beer is traditionally consumed at around 10 am, when craftsmen have their lunch break (after starting at 6 am that is). It is not even served after midday (except to tourists).

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**Nikhil** · May 12, 2018, 11:22 AM

Thanks for the Munich coverage guys.
Special thanks to Wizard, tube-vds and Kuoppis!

I also could not make it to Munich this time.
Please post pictures of the Sharks dinner as well.

Regards.

**Glareskin** · May 12, 2018, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by heihei

Reply to Hans.....
Kawero!
Very good room again. If anything, their new standmount was even more impressive.

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Kawero.

Thanks heihei and thanks Kuoppis! I wil check it out. So did anyone hear other music on those? I can just imagine that Jazz will sound good too. Also for Daft Punk, as suggested by GiorgioNuvolari, you could add a good subwoofer...

**wizard** · May 12, 2018, 11:33 AM

**ashandger** · May 12, 2018, 12:04 PM

Many thanks for all the great photos and feedback. Anyone get to hear the new Marten Momento 2 speakers with Vitus amps?

**jdandy** · May 12, 2018, 12:05 PM

Surprised not to see any photos of speakers from the German manufacturer Canton at the Munich Show. The Canton K1 is a beauty.

**Kuoppis** · May 12, 2018, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by ashandger

Many thanks for all the great photos and feedback. Anyone get to hear the new Marten Momento 2 speakers with Vitus amps?

You mean these?

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**wizard** · May 12, 2018, 01:03 PM

Thrax Spartacus - $75000 /pr.

**Kuoppis** · May 12, 2018, 02:22 PM

[QUOTE=Rob181;238663]

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

All good...thank so much for your photos & thoughts on Munich...
It is very much appreciated...

Check out Gallery 2, photo 1/20: speakers made by SGR Audio:

“Australia’s SGR Audio used High End 2018 to debut their new CX4F Mk2 active speaker ($25,000 per pair), a four-way design that incorporates a 30mm textile-dome tweeter, a 50mm textile-dome midrange, a 6.5” paper-cone midbass, and four 6.5” long-throw woofers. According to the company, the CX4F Mk2 is the world’s first current-driven active loudspeaker.”

https://www.soundstageglobal.com/ind...rage-gallery-2

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**Marslo** · May 12, 2018, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by GiorgioNuvolari

Kawero had the best sound for chamber classical music. It was unbelievable. Not so sure it would do well with Daft Punk.
There were other rooms where the systems excelled with a particular kind of music, but did not do so well (to put it kindly) with other types. Mbl Radialstrahler comes to mind.
I left the show with deep respect for systems that exceeded the bar all around.
For me, the most amazing performance was at the Marriott, where the parallel, kind of underground show took place.
FM Acoustics show was unbelievable. Vinyl sourced, from Queen to Rachmaninoff. Wow.

Did you have the opportunity to listen to Acapella in Mariott ?

**Kuoppis** · May 12, 2018, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Marslo

Did you have the opportunity to listen to Acapella in Mariott ?

Did not see the Accapella demo, but heard from friends the sound was exquisite.

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**aKnyght** · May 12, 2018, 03:13 PM

i am really enjoying the coverage and reports from the show! ...it is a good thing i am not there as my audio slush fund has already taken quite a hit this year.

thanks to all for taking the time to post !

btw: if anyone visited the THÖRESS room (H 2 F02/G03) or the Voxative room (A 4.2 E222), i would be interested to hear any impressions or thoughts.

**Priaptor** · May 12, 2018, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Did not see the Accapella demo, but heard from friends the sound was exquisite.

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It is so funny. I heard it "sucked" but the Cessaro were awesome. It seems like horns have a huge following. So much of these show impressions have to do with what they are playing, where you are sitting/standing, etc.

One thing I know, with few exceptions, in today's "high end" I don't think there are many systems any of us couldn't love and live with. We have our preferences BUT all this stuff is so good today that one can literally be blown away by just about anything in one's own room.

**ashandger** · May 12, 2018, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

You mean these?

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No these are Mingus 20 I believe. Momento 2 is much taller and much more expensive....approx. €300K I believe. Being used with Vitus amps.

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