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May 5, 2018, 03:48 PM #1
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To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
For those that have (used) the SS-xxx amps, would you still recommend a Pre-Amp if you just have a one source digital setup? By foregoing a pre, one can go with a top notch source for the cost savings (pre and cables) and the Vitus attenuator ain’t no slouch either.
Many times you see a source (SCD) with Vitus Amp only unless there is an analog rig at most shows.
Would appreciate your thoughts.
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November 25, 2019, 04:12 PM #2
Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
I'd love to read an answer too!
Triangle Magellan Concerto 2 < AQ Everest < Vitus Audio SS-010 Mk2 < AQ Dragon HC < AQ WEL Signature XLR < Chord Qutest w UpTone JS-2 & AQ Dragon Source < SOtM tX-USBultra w 75Ohm Master Clock Input, Paul Hynes SR5-12 Turbo XL & AQ Dragon Source < AQ Diamond USB < Aurender N-100H w AQ Dragon Source < Gryphon PowerZone w AQ NRG-Wild < Solid Tech Hybrid < Ansuz Darkz D-TC, Darkz D2, Stillpoints Ultra SS, Omicron Harmonic Stabilizer & Gold SE < Furutech FT-SWS < Synergistic Research Blue Quantum Fuse
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November 25, 2019, 06:39 PM #3
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Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
ALWAYS preamp! Digital volume controls generally suck, and so do often passive buffered analog preamps. I have had a Pass B1 buffer for too long, and I cannot believe how much of a difference the acquisition of an Octave HP 700 preamp in my digital-only system made. It was transformative (the less expensive Octave HP 300 SE preamp is also good, but not as good).
Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
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November 25, 2019, 07:08 PM #4
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Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
I have found some things are better going direct. But ultimately I found using a preamp or integrated more satisfying.
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November 25, 2019, 10:54 PM #5
Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
If your rolling with one source, and it’s a good one then I guess maybe your ok, and you can always add one later.
But I do feel the Pre is the heart of your system and helps shape the tone, something I would not live without.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProSource Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
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November 28, 2019, 04:30 PM #6
Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
The Vitus volume control is resistor ladder based, not digital!
Triangle Magellan Concerto 2 < AQ Everest < Vitus Audio SS-010 Mk2 < AQ Dragon HC < AQ WEL Signature XLR < Chord Qutest w UpTone JS-2 & AQ Dragon Source < SOtM tX-USBultra w 75Ohm Master Clock Input, Paul Hynes SR5-12 Turbo XL & AQ Dragon Source < AQ Diamond USB < Aurender N-100H w AQ Dragon Source < Gryphon PowerZone w AQ NRG-Wild < Solid Tech Hybrid < Ansuz Darkz D-TC, Darkz D2, Stillpoints Ultra SS, Omicron Harmonic Stabilizer & Gold SE < Furutech FT-SWS < Synergistic Research Blue Quantum Fuse
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November 28, 2019, 08:37 PM #7
Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
I’ve always preferred a preamp, either tube or great passive. Unless you have a top of the line MSB dac, I like what preamps add, a little air, slightly warmer sound depending, a little fuller and more musical sound. Direct is more detailed, more matter of fact, more exact but less musical to me.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
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First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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November 28, 2019, 11:21 PM #8
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Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
Depends on the preamp. Mine delivers both the full tone and all the detail you want -- micro-detail of timbre, separation of instruments etc.
I also would not describe it as less exact; I perceive the fuller tone not as coloration, but as better preservation of the original signal, without "bleaching out". It is less about addition, but more about lack of subtraction.
This assessment is not just based on what I perceive as natural tone, but also on preservation of the tonal differences between recordings. If it were a coloration, it would overlay a sameness on everything.Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
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November 29, 2019, 02:05 AM #9
To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
Do not really see the benefit in this no-preamp thing. So far, I yet have to hear a system that sounds better without. For me it’s either an integrated or pre/ power combo.
My feeling is the argument is a clumsy effort used to justify overpriced source components, mainly by MSB. Have not heard that argument from other manufacturers.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk“Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”
Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.
Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.
HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.
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November 29, 2019, 02:43 AM #10
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Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
I would like to see where this thread goes.
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November 29, 2019, 03:49 AM #11
Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
I’m sure the MSB faction will soon chime in . And the MSB DACs are very good, but I’d still prefer a preamp in the chain.
But there are others who have done it before. The idea was originally introduced by Linn to add more value/ functionality to their DS line of DAC streamers. While good, they’re not quite on the level of dedicated preamps, as they present a compromise.
Also, I do have something similar in my system, as the Soulution 520 is a preamp, where an in-built phono stage utilizes the resources of the main preamp. But that is two preamps in one, not a source adding a preamp.
Of the Soulution 520 JV says it was the best solid state preamp he had heard, until the introduction of its larger sibling Soulution 725. But both are preamps, not DACs adding preamps.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk“Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”
Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.
Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.
HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.
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November 29, 2019, 04:35 PM #12
Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
The preamp modules, an option in the REF DAC and standard in the Select DAC are as good as any solid state preamp I’ve heard. The VC in the discrete and premier is not quite up to the level of a really good solid state preamp, but still good, not unlike the VC on the DAVE.
What I hear with the full MSB preamp module (instead of adding a standard preamp in the chain) is a greater transparency to source.
That being said, if someone likes a little color, as I do, a tube preamp or different flavor solid state preamp by all means is a good way to go.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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November 29, 2019, 06:50 PM #13
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Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
If you have unlimited funds a preamp would probably add some enhancement. In my case I do not have unlimited funds. Previously I was using the aesthetix Calypso signature preamp and the Pandora dac with volume control. Non this setup i preferred the preamp in the system. When I got the opportunity to get the aesthetix Pandora Dac i had to sell the Aesthetix Pandora Dac and preamp in order to do so. In my opinion the Pandora eclipse going straight into the Audio Research Ref 75 was a significant improvement over the previous aesthetix combo. I have not tested every combination but my hypothesis of my lone point of reference would be that a standalone Dac with a well designed volume control wii yield a more engaging listening experience than a Dac and preamp combo whose combined cost is close to the cost of the higher end Dac. Given that the Dac is my only source I can’t see pursuing the aesthetix calyspso eclipse preamp, as I would look to possibly update the amp or speakers before movinng in this direction.
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November 29, 2019, 07:16 PM #14
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Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
I went from a B1 to an Elekit Valve pre, way better now that I can drive the M2X to full power.
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November 29, 2019, 07:36 PM #15
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Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
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November 29, 2019, 07:50 PM #16Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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November 29, 2019, 08:47 PM #17
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Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
I think it all comes to down the “ system “ approach regarding a pre amp.
Hopefully we will hear from the gentleman on this forum who owns the Select II and has purchased the new Msb monoblocks.
We can assume that he can afford to add any pre amp in the world he wants if that setup doesn’t suffice for him.
also , audio reviewer Jeff Fritz praised his Soulution 560 into his 711 amp.
So , at this level as msb and soulution ; most likely a pre amp isn’t necessary.
it simply comes down to synergy and of course the technology being implemented.
who wouldn’t want one less box ? Less cable ? More simple and with a higher resolution and more transparent sound ?
At their prices : coloration shouldn’t be accepted.
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November 29, 2019, 09:28 PM #18
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Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
...and I don't accept the notion that a preamp is necessarily colored or less transparent and resolving. Perhaps the preamp modules in the MSB Reference and Select II DACs are the most transparent option for these DACs, but other DACs typically work less well direct than through high quality preamp.
Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
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November 29, 2019, 09:41 PM #19
Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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November 29, 2019, 09:43 PM #20
Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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November 29, 2019, 10:46 PM #21
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Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
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November 29, 2019, 10:49 PM #22
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Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
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November 29, 2019, 10:51 PM #23
Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
Agreed. I will say, the proper MSB Pre is excellent. Super transparent. As an example, listening to DK Live In Paris, you hear so many more details. Little subtle nuances. Done properly, with one box in the chain missing, you get a lot closer to the source. But most DAC’s VC should be called convenience volume controls at best.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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November 29, 2019, 10:54 PM #24
Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
I might be slow here, but if you don’t have a preamp then aren’t you limited to only one source?
Bud
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
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November 29, 2019, 11:03 PM #25
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Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
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November 29, 2019, 11:19 PM #26
Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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November 30, 2019, 12:20 AM #27
Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
Been there done that many, many times trying a digital (Berkely, etc.) source with a "high quality" volume control. Been to Mike's and heard MSB Reference (I think--maybe Premier) direct. I just really like the added heft, drive and tone of a quality preamp.
Rance
Synology DS411+II | GigaFOILv4 + Keces P3 Power Supply | Shunyata Alpha Ethernet | Lumin S1 | VAC Master Line Stage | VAC Signature 200 iQ amps | Kharma Elegance dB11-S | SVS PC-4000 subs x 2 | Shunyata 6000/T v2 | Kharma Elegance signal cables| Luminous Audio Technology power cables | Isoacoustics OREA vibration isolators | Solid Tech racks | Vicoustic room treatments | Acoustic Sciences Corporation IsoWall + IsoCeiling construction
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November 30, 2019, 01:20 AM #28Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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November 30, 2019, 02:49 AM #29
To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?
I feel it’s worthwhile to clarify how volume attenuation and preamp function are implemented/offered in new MSB family of DACs (Mike, please do correct me if I’m wrong). In Discrete and Premier it is done via what MSB simply calls “Volume Control”. In Reference, VC is standard, but you can upgrade to add a “preamp module”. On Select, such “preamp module” is the standard. And with this preamp module, you can accept more than one input (as shown in the pic below).
As for my Discrete, I simply by-pass the VC and use the preamp section of Diablo 300.
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The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
I upgraded the power supply on my Gigafoil v4 to a Weiss PSU 102. It’s very nice step up. But with the new model, you’re looking at $2000 before even investing in a SOTA linear power supply.
GigaFoil v4 Inline Ethernet Filter