To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be? - Page 3
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  1. #21
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    Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Did you read what I wrote? The VC is just ok, like the DAVE VC. It’s not at the preamp module level or even close.


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    Yes, I read what you wrote, it's "not quite up to the level of a really good solid state preamp, but still good".

    In any case, I am just confirming that it's better with a high quality preamp.
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  2. #22
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    Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Agreed, but no other manufacturer has put that kind of effort into a proper preamp integrated into a DAC either. Most do a simple volume attenuator like the Lampi, DAVE, MSB Discrete, etc.


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    Understood, that seems to be the consensus which I have no reason to doubt.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  3. #23
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    Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    Yes, I read what you wrote, it's "not quite up to the level of a really good solid state preamp, but still good".

    In any case, I am just confirming that it's better with a high quality preamp.
    Agreed. I will say, the proper MSB Pre is excellent. Super transparent. As an example, listening to DK Live In Paris, you hear so many more details. Little subtle nuances. Done properly, with one box in the chain missing, you get a lot closer to the source. But most DAC’s VC should be called convenience volume controls at best.


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  4. #24
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    Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?

    I might be slow here, but if you don’t have a preamp then aren’t you limited to only one source?
    Bud

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  5. #25
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    Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    But most DAC’s VC should be called convenience volume controls at best.
    Makes you wonder why manufacturers waste resources on implementing such a VC in the first place, instead of making a fixed output, which would lower the price. Perhaps they feel pressured into just following what the competition does.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

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  7. #26
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    Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    Makes you wonder why manufacturers waste resources on implementing such a VC in the first place, instead of making a fixed output, which would lower the price. Perhaps they feel pressured into just following what the competition does.
    You raise an excellent question.


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  8. #27
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    Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?

    Been there done that many, many times trying a digital (Berkely, etc.) source with a "high quality" volume control. Been to Mike's and heard MSB Reference (I think--maybe Premier) direct. I just really like the added heft, drive and tone of a quality preamp.
    Rance


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  10. #28
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    Re: To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?

    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    I might be slow here, but if you don’t have a preamp then aren’t you limited to only one source?
    Joe

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  11. #29
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    To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?

    I feel it’s worthwhile to clarify how volume attenuation and preamp function are implemented/offered in new MSB family of DACs (Mike, please do correct me if I’m wrong). In Discrete and Premier it is done via what MSB simply calls “Volume Control”. In Reference, VC is standard, but you can upgrade to add a “preamp module”. On Select, such “preamp module” is the standard. And with this preamp module, you can accept more than one input (as shown in the pic below).
    As for my Discrete, I simply by-pass the VC and use the preamp section of Diablo 300.


 

 
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