Typhon QR

[CGabriel]

Caelin

I have 2 original Typhons, one for each monoblock. Dedicated lines for each amp. Obviously each plugged into respective duplex plug.

How would Typhon II change things?

Well I am sure you already know what Typhons bring to a system. Some listeners comment on the reduction of noise or the improvements in the foundation or in the improvement in clarity and resolution. But for me, the hallmark signature of Typhon has to do with its transformational ability to render spatial information. A good, properly setup stereo can portray a solid 2 dimensional sonic image with a focused center and good left to right separation of instruments. A great system is 3 dimensional in that it adds a sense of height and depth to the soundscape.

What the Typhon brings to a great system is another dimension. So instead of a virtual soundscape laid our before you spanning the two speakers with a sense of depth extending back towards the back wall - the Typhon creates a sense of immersion ‘into’ the sound field. It is as if you are transported to the recording venue and are present in that space. To be a bit analytical about it, the soundscape is stretched and pulled forward towards you the listener extending even behind you. Some have called it somewhat similar to a really well setup multi-channel system.

Whatever qualities you have experienced with the original Typhon and in whatever manner you wish to describe that experience, just know that the TQR does more of ‘that’. I have read a report from an early adopter who said that the TQR was five times better than the original. I certainly wouldn’t say that, but then again, I have not heard his particular system so I just have to trust his own subjective impression. On the other hand I have heard some report that the original Typhon didn’t do much for the system over and above what the Triton brought to it. So each system and each person’s perceptual abilities are different.

Frankly, I am happy for you that you have had the resources to acquire such a fabulous system and proud that the Typhon has contributed to your sense of enjoyment.

[Gondo101]

Caelin,
Saw pictures on Denali’s internal, any chance you can share pictures on how Trton v3 and TQR Internal look like?

[Kuoppis]

Caelin,
Saw pictures on Denali’s internal, any chance you can share pictures on how Trton v3 and TQR Internal look like?

Triton V3



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[Gondo101]

Wow, thanks, looks like EU version, isn’t it?
Didi you replace the top cover with glass ?

[Kuoppis]

Wow, thanks, looks like EU version, isn’t it?
Didi you replace the top cover with glass ?

Not sure whether it is the US or EU version, I did not check the sockets.

This was the piece on display in the Shunyata room in Munich.


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[hieukm]

Can the Typhon QR be used in conjunction with another Power Conditioner rather than Shunyata products?

[isquirrel]

I have a full Shunyata system, Triton V2 and Typhon and all Sigma Cables of different varietals. My question for Caelin is I have to run the Triton and Typhon apart so in my current system I replaced the umbilical which was an Alpha with a Sigma 1.75M.

Can I do the same with the upgrade I am purchasing: Triton V3, TYphon QR and replace all of the Sigma cables with Sigma NR's. This time I am trying the the Sigma signal cables (Interconnects). The upgrade price comes to some $35,000. I am really struggling with how much of a difference is the upgrade going to make and is it worth it. Solving my fundamental issue of needing to run the Triton V3 and Typhon QR apart by one shelf's width on a HRS stand will mean I need a longer umbilical.

Your advice would be much appreciated.

[joeinid]

Welcome to the forum isquirrel, Thank you for joining. Sorry for the delay in welcoming you aboard.

[CGabriel]

I have a full Shunyata system, Triton V2 and Typhon and all Sigma Cables of different varietals. My question for Caelin is I have to run the Triton and Typhon apart so in my current system I replaced the umbilical which was an Alpha with a Sigma 1.75M.

Can I do the same with the upgrade I am purchasing: Triton V3, TYphon QR and replace all of the Sigma cables with Sigma NR's. This time I am trying the the Sigma signal cables (Interconnects). The upgrade price comes to some $35,000. I am really struggling with how much of a difference is the upgrade going to make and is it worth it. Solving my fundamental issue of needing to run the Triton V3 and Typhon QR apart by one shelf's width on a HRS stand will mean I need a longer umbilical.

Your advice would be much appreciated.

First, thank you for using our products in your system.

The original Typhon, (TY1), is a parallel device. It’s performance is radically affect by the length of the umbilical. Which is why it was as short as possible. So, while I understand your space limitations, the longer umbilical hurts the performance.

The new Typhon QR (TQR) is a serial connected device. It is less affected by the umbilical cable length. The TQR comes with a 1.5 meter umbilical as standard equipment (no extra charge). If you need a longer cable simply specify that at the time of ordering. BTW, do not order a Sigma NR to use as the umbilical. First it requires a special C20 AC plug. And the supplied umbilical is equivalent to a Sigma EF cable, so there is no higher performance option available.

The early adopters of the TQR are universally reporting that it is a substantial upgrade from the TY1. The upgrade from Sigma Analog, Digital or HC cables is smaller in significance. The Sigma NR is better but the original Sigmas are not chopped liver. So, if I were giving advice to my best friend I would say that the TQR is a definite must have. The Sigma PC upgrades should be be evaluated individually to see if the substantial cost is worth the performance upgrade for you personally.

The Sigma speaker cables and interconnects have several reviews published or coming soon. The latest being the review of the Sigma phono cables by Tim Aucremann. You should read it and then be sure to do your own evaluation in your system. With products at these price levels, you should always work with a dealer gives you the right to return a cable if it doesn’t perform to your expectation. If you already have a dealer who treats you right - return the courtesy and don’t waste their time or price shop them for a couple hundred bucks. A great dealer is your most valued asset when trying to make these decisions.

[CGabriel]

Can the Typhon QR be used in conjunction with another Power Conditioner rather than Shunyata products?

A qualified yes, but it is complicated based on the specific partnering device. The TQR was designed specifically to work with the Triton v3 which is a device designed to maximize DTCD, instantaneous current delivery. Using a device that, by its nature, is current limiting will degrade the benefits afforded by the TQR.

[Gondo101]

I would get the Triton v3 (Tv3j. It is vastly (JMO) superior to the Denali sonically. And it includes an advanced grounding system (CGS) which is similar in function to the Tripoint or Entreq grounding boxes. We built the Triton/Typhon reference system as two separate boxes intentionally so that you could get the Triton first and upgrade to the full system at a later date when finances permit. JFYI, since the Typhon QR is just hitting the market, there will probably be people selling their original Typhon to upgrade which means you could get a used one at a significant savings.

Just realized that CGS is mentioned. When you said v3 includes advanced CGS, what will be the differences vs. CGS in v2? Is it because of improved NIC or any other technology improvement?

[Kuoppis]

Too many unexplained acronyms for me. Banking on people being too embarrassed to ask what they mean .

So nineties.


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[CGabriel]

Just realized that CGS is mentioned. When you said v3 includes advanced CGS, what will be the differences vs. CGS in v2? Is it because of improved NIC or any other technology improvement?

CGS: Chassis Grounding System

The CGS system was introduced with the Triton v2 model. It was not part of the Triton v1. The CGS system is same in both the Tv2 and the Tv3.

If you like I can post a copy of the CGS User Guide.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sp57hyu4fx...%20v3.pdf?dl=0

Hope this helps,

[Crumhorn]

CGS: Chassis Grounding System

The CGS system was introduced with the Triton v2 model. It was not part of the Triton v1. The CGS system is same in both the Tv2 and the Tv3.

If you like I can post a copy of the CGS User Guide.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sp57hyu4fx...%20v3.pdf?dl=0

Hope this helps,

Does the ground terminal on the Denali 6000T offer similar benefits to to CGS, or is it just a common grounding point, without the filtering(?) of the CGS?

[Mike]

I have a Typhon QR incoming. It shipped today.

[Kuoppis]

CGS: Chassis Grounding System

The CGS system was introduced with the Triton v2 model. It was not part of the Triton v1. The CGS system is same in both the Tv2 and the Tv3.

If you like I can post a copy of the CGS User Guide.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sp57hyu4fx...%20v3.pdf?dl=0

Hope this helps,

Caelin, so your product has grounding, major thing really. So how much is it for the grounding, maybe 2-3K?

All products I have in my system have grounding. Part of the package. Can’t really build electronic products w/o grounding, can you?


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[CGabriel]

Caelin, so your product has grounding, major thing really. So how much is it for the grounding, maybe 2-3K?

All products I have in my system have grounding. Part of the package. Can’t really build electronic products w/o grounding, can you?


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All products have PCB grounds, ground planes, chassis grounds and signal grounds. But how much attention has been given by the designer of the product to how the signal return paths and chassis grounds relate to one another is critical to performance. Grounding is just another of the design elements that we haven't really talked about over the years. But more and more people are recognizing the importance of a good system-wide grounding system. I really think that a lot credit needs to go to Entreq for being a pioneer in advancing this aspect to system performance.

All Hydra products going back to the year 2000 have had extensive attention given to the ground plane. The Triton v2 was simply an idea to provide accessability to the internal ground system of the Triton to the other equipment in the system.

Whether or not you use a 'special' grounding system to connect your components, it is important to (at a minimum) to connect all your components to a single ground point. This helps to minimize grounds loops and lowers overall system ground plane noise.

[CGabriel]

Does the ground terminal on the Denali 6000T offer similar benefits to to CGS, or is it just a common grounding point, without the filtering(?) of the CGS?

The Denali products do not have an internal NIC to treat ground plane noise. However, the Denali's have easily accessible, high quality, ground lugs to provide a single point to ground all of your components together. Simply connecting all your equipment chassis to a single common ground point is a very significant performance advantage. Most people do not take advantage of this very simple concept of system wide grounding. System wide grounding does not need to be a complicated or expensive affair. If you have a Denali take advantage of this simple concept. You may be surprised at the improvements available.

Read the CGS User Guide because all of the connection principles also apply to the Denali.

[Crumhorn]

The Denali products do not have an internal NIC to treat ground plane noise. However, the Denali's have easily accessible, high quality, ground lugs to provide a single point to ground all of your components together. Simply connecting all your equipment chassis to a single common ground point is a very significant performance advantage. Most people do not take advantage of this very simple concept of system wide grounding. System wide grounding does not need to be a complicated or expensive affair. If you have a Denali take advantage of this simple concept. You may be surprised at the improvements available.

Read the CGS User Guide because all of the connection principles also apply to the Denali.

Thanks, Caelin, for your availability & prompt response! Your participation in these forums is valuable and appreciated!

[Kuoppis]

All products have PCB grounds, ground planes, chassis grounds and signal grounds. But how much attention has been given by the designer of the product to how the signal return paths and chassis grounds relate to one another is critical to performance. Grounding is just another of the design elements that we haven't really talked about over the years. But more and more people are recognizing the importance of a good system-wide grounding system. I really think that a lot credit needs to go to Entreq for being a pioneer in advancing this aspect to system performance.

All Hydra products going back to the year 2000 have had extensive attention given to the ground plane. The Triton v2 was simply an idea to provide accessability to the internal ground system of the Triton to the other equipment in the system.

Whether or not you use a 'special' grounding system to connect your components, it is important to (at a minimum) to connect all your components to a single ground point. This helps to minimize grounds loops and lowers overall system ground plane noise.

Thank you for your elaborate response. So we agree grounding is very important. Maybe I was just perplexed by the accentuated use of acronyms, instead of e.g. calling grounding just grounding.

But this raises another question: in your view, is the audio system grounding question resolved with the elaborate grounding provided by the Triton v2 onwards? Is grounding via the power cable sufficient to address grounding issues?

The reason why I am asking is that another player in the market has introduced a completely separate grounding solution for audio systems. Based on what you describe, shouldn’t that be provided by the grounding from the Triton v2 onwards? Yet I’ve heard system demos with that other grounding solution installed and removed, and there was a difference. Isn’t e.g. a turntable also usually grounded separately, in addition to the grounding provided through the power cable?


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[Bar81]

But this raises another question: in your view, is the audio system grounding question resolved with the elaborate grounding provided by the Triton v2 onwards? Is grounding via the power cable sufficient to address grounding issues?

The reason why I am asking is that another player in the market has introduced a completely separate grounding solution for audio systems. Based on what you describe, shouldn’t that be provided by the grounding from the Triton v2 onwards? Yet I’ve heard system demos with that other grounding solution installed and removed, and there was a difference. Isn’t e.g. a turntable also usually grounded separately, in addition to the grounding provided through the power cable?

I've also never been clear as to why any separate grounding system is needed? Isn't everything grounded by plugging all components into the Triton?

[Kuoppis]

Isn't everything grounded by plugging all components into the Triton?

While I am not postulating this to be the case, this is exactly my question to Caelin and I would be interested in his response.


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[CGabriel]

Thank you for your elaborate response. So we agree grounding is very important. Maybe I was just perplexed by the accentuated use of acronyms, instead of e.g. calling grounding just grounding.

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The audio hobby is riddled with a veritable mountain of acronyms, not unlike the legal, medical or scientific industries. So, I understand your issue with their use. However, this is the Shunyata Research forum and the people asking the questions are Shunyata Research owners. So, I assume that you are somewhat familiar our technologies and acronyms. If someone doesn't understand an acronym or a terminology or a proprietary technology, I would be happy to explain it. I use the acronym CGS so that I don't have to type "chassis grounding system" over and over again.

Communication on forums or in email is somewhat difficult because the intent or attitude behind a comment can be lost. Your emphasis on "elaborate response" above, to me, implies a somewhat sarcastic tone. If I am mistaken in that, please elaborate.

I am here simply to represent Shunyata Research and our products and to provide an authoritative source of information about the products and the associated technologies. I always attempt to keep responses as clear and brief as necessary to explain a question or subject. I will usually warn the readers if a response is going to get long or involved. There are many people on the forum that have different levels of technical knowledge and different styles of communication. Some people like a quick, to the point, answer. Others prefer a more details and complete explanation. So, I need to strike a balance in my responses which I apparently have not done for you.

[CGabriel]

But this raises another question: in your view, is the audio system grounding question resolved with the elaborate grounding provided by the Triton v2 onwards? Is grounding via the power cable sufficient to address grounding issues?

Simple answer: No and (it depends)

The word "ground" is just a word and one that is used in many different contexts. It only has a technical meaning in very narrowly defined contexts. It can mean a trace on a PCB (printed circuit board); a wire in a component that is a signal return path; a wire in a power cord; a wire in an XLR cable; a safety ground in AC wall wiring; and the list goes on. From a strictly technical point of view, grounds and grounding are not at all simple.

The reason why I am asking is that another player in the market has introduced a completely separate grounding solution for audio systems. Based on what you describe, shouldn’t that be provided by the grounding from the Triton v2 onwards? Yet I’ve heard system demos with that other grounding solution installed and removed, and there was a difference. Isn’t e.g. a turntable also usually grounded separately, in addition to the grounding provided through the power cable?

There are many manufacturers of grounding boxes with different technologies or points of view on it. Which specific product are you talking about? Entreq, Tripoint, Telos, Synergistic, Nordost etc.

Let's just put aside and "special" ground technologies for the moment. If you want to understand ground issues I would suggest reading the following as a primer. If you want to discuss ground issues in general, there are many threads that are miles long about it.

An Overview of Audio System Grounding and Interfacing
Author: Bill Whitlock
---

Then if you want a deeper understanding move on to more reading.

Power and Grounding for Audio and Video Systems
Author: Jim Brown
---
Sound System Interconnection
Source: RaneNote 110
---
Grounding and Shielding Audio Devices
Source: RaneNote 110
---
Ground Loops: The Rest of the Story
Author: Bill Whitlock

[Crumhorn]

While I am not postulating this to be the case, this is exactly my question to Caelin and I would be interested in his response.


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If you read the "CGS User Guide" that Caelin provided a link to in in post #64 above, that question is answered, as well as some of the other questions raised. (Spoiler: yes, everything plugged into the Triton shares a common ground, but some components benefit from additionally being connected to the CGS.)

It seems to me that some of the posters are conflating the recommendation of a common ground point for one's whole system with something like the CGS. The CGS is not just a common ground point, it is a "filtered" common ground point. (I know that Shunyata & others dislike the use of the term "filter"...) The CGS runs the common ground through some of the same filtering that is applied to the power in the Triton. The Entreq, Nordost, Synergistic Research, et al grounding systems all apply some form of "conditioning" to the common ground they supply, all claiming that this conditioning provides a far superior result to just providing a common ground point. But all agree that having one's entire system share a common ground point is important, and can bring sonic benefits, even without the use of their (varyingly pricey) products. As per Caelin's reply to my question above (post #69), the Denali series provides a ground lug to serve as a common ground point, but it is just that and no more - it does not make use of any of the Denali filtering.

[Kuoppis]

Simple answer: No and (it depends)

The word "ground" is just a word and one that is used in many different contexts. It only has a technical meaning in very narrowly defined contexts. It can mean a trace on a PCB (printed circuit board); a wire in a component that is a signal return path; a wire in a power cord; a wire in an XLR cable; a safety ground in AC wall wiring; and the list goes on. From a strictly technical point of view, grounds and grounding are not at all simple.



There are many manufacturers of grounding boxes with different technologies or points of view on it. Which specific product are you talking about? Entreq, Tripoint, Telos, Synergistic, Nordost etc.

Let's just put aside and "special" ground technologies for the moment. If you want to understand ground issues I would suggest reading the following as a primer. If you want to discuss ground issues in general, there are many threads that are miles long about it.

An Overview of Audio System Grounding and Interfacing
Author: Bill Whitlock
---

Then if you want a deeper understanding move on to more reading.

Power and Grounding for Audio and Video Systems
Author: Jim Brown
---
Sound System Interconnection
Source: RaneNote 110
---
Grounding and Shielding Audio Devices
Source: RaneNote 110
---
Ground Loops: The Rest of the Story
Author: Bill Whitlock

Caelin, I understand the benefit of acronyms, having worked quite a long time in telecoms. My comment was sarcastic only to the extent to which acronyms are not meaningful. If a cryptic abbreviation must be used to make talking about a simple thing more interesting, power to you.

You just said it yourself, the Triton v2 grounding magic you praised and so elaborately filled with acronyms does not solve grounding issues. Some yes, others not. And I was talking about Nordost passive grounding. Did not want to pin it on your nose, but you asked.

My enquiry about the Triton arises from the fact that I saw a big box full of nothing on your stand in Munich. Peeking inside a Niagara is definitely more interesting.

Btw, IMHO an answer ‘read a book’ to someone who owns 10-15K worth of your products is an extremely weak one. But that’s just me.


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[CGabriel]

Yet I’ve heard system demos with that other grounding solution installed and removed, and there was a difference. Isn’t e.g. a turntable also usually grounded separately, in addition to the grounding provided through the power cable?
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Sorry for parsing your response into so many separate answers but to have a clear answer I felt it necessary to separate certain points.

I am going to assume that most people reading this thread will not read all or even any of the source materials that I have referenced. I don't blame you. Once you take a look at the documents, it is clear that it is going to take a lot of time to wade through it even if you have an electrical or electronics background.

But without an understand of the AC Mains electrical system grounding and neutrals system and of the disparate methods of connecting "signal grounds" within an audio component, you will never truly understand the complex interactions that can occur in the audio system.

There are "chassis grounds" and "signal grounds". There are DC currents that travel through ground connections. There are AC line frequency signals that are imposed on ground connections. There are RF (radio frequency) signals that are virtually always present on ground wires and connections. How the individual system is wired with both power cabling and with different types of signal cabling can dramatically affect performance.

So the answer to your point about hearing a difference when XYZ was changed: Yes, anytime you change something in the grounding system, you will likely hear a difference. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the change was better or worse. It may be that it is just different. Some of the grounding systems can actually introduce a pathway for RF noise into the audio system.

Before anyone invests in a separate grounding box from anyone you should first establish a good baseline grounding system. As you implied earlier, a good power distributor 'should' connect all the audio components to a 'common ground'. That ground is the ground connection within the power distributor which is in turn connected directly to the AC inlet ground wire. So you are right in saying that the power cord should be grounding the component. That is unless that power cord has a disabled ground pin or cheater plug is used. And some equipment manufacturers intentionally don't have a ground pin connection in their AC inlet. Another issue may be that the impedance of power cords is not the same. And what seems like small differences in impedance can have significant impact on perceived performance.

So, a good power distributor with power cords that have adequate, intact ground wiring is a good starting point. But what happens when you have multiple AC circuits in the system? Now there isn't a single ground source, there are two. How do those two interact within the system? So in these systems it is beneficial to make sure the grounds are all at the same potential (voltage level). This is why we have ground lugs on the back of many of our power conditioners. For instance some people use a Denali D6000T for source equipment and a Denali D2000T to power the amplifiers. The D6000 and D2000 have ground lugs on the back so that the user can connect a large gauge ground wire from one to the other. This helps to minimize ground potential differences (ground loops).

[Kuoppis]

Sorry for parsing your response into so many separate answers but to have a clear answer I felt it necessary to separate certain points.

I am going to assume that most people reading this thread will not read all or even any of the source materials that I have referenced. I don't blame you. Once you take a look at the documents, it is clear that it is going to take a lot of time to wade through it even if you have an electrical or electronics background.

But without an understand of the AC Mains electrical system grounding and neutrals system and of the disparate methods of connecting "signal grounds" within an audio component, you will never truly understand the complex interactions that can occur in the audio system.

There are "chassis grounds" and "signal grounds". There are DC currents that travel through ground connections. There are AC line frequency signals that are imposed on ground connections. There are RF (radio frequency) signals that are virtually always present on ground wires and connections. How the individual system is wired with both power cabling and with different types of signal cabling can dramatically affect performance.

So the answer to your point about hearing a difference when XYZ was changed: Yes, anytime you change something in the grounding system, you will likely hear a difference. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the change was better or worse. It may be that it is just different. Some of the grounding systems can actually introduce a pathway for RF noise into the audio system.

Before anyone invests in a separate grounding box from anyone you should first establish a good baseline grounding system. As you implied earlier, a good power distributor 'should' connect all the audio components to a 'common ground'. That ground is the ground connection within the power distributor which is in turn connected directly to the AC inlet ground wire. So you are right in saying that the power cord should be grounding the component. That is unless that power cord has a disabled ground pin or cheater plug is used. And some equipment manufacturers intentionally don't have a ground pin connection in their AC inlet. Another issue may be that the impedance of power cords is not the same. And what seems like small differences in impedance can have significant impact on perceived performance.

So, a good power distributor with power cords that have adequate, intact ground wiring is a good starting point. But what happens when you have multiple AC circuits in the system? Now there isn't a single ground source, there are two. How do those two interact within the system? So in these systems it is beneficial to make sure the grounds are all at the same potential (voltage level). This is why we have ground lugs on the back of many of our power conditioners. For instance some people use a Denali D6000T for source equipment and a Denali D2000T to power the amplifiers. The D6000 and D2000 have ground lugs on the back so that the user can connect a large gauge ground wire from one to the other. This helps to minimize ground potential differences (ground loops).

Thank you, your response is greatly appreciated. I don’t pretend to understand even a fraction of what you know about power management, so my questions are genuine. As a non-expert I am voting with my $$, but I desire good answers in return.

I do have an inquisitive nature and might ask uncomfortable questions, that does not mean I do not love my Shunyata products. I have plenty and think they are some of my best components.


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[CGabriel]

If you read the "CGS User Guide" that Caelin provided a link to in in post #64 above, that question is answered, as well as some of the other questions raised. (Spoiler: yes, everything plugged into the Triton shares a common ground, but some components benefit from additionally being connected to the CGS.)

It seems to me that some of the posters are conflating the recommendation of a common ground point for one's whole system with something like the CGS. The CGS is not just a common ground point, it is a "filtered" common ground point. (I know that Shunyata & others dislike the use of the term "filter"...) The CGS runs the common ground through some of the same filtering that is applied to the power in the Triton. The Entreq, Nordost, Synergistic Research, et al grounding systems all apply some form of "conditioning" to the common ground they supply, all claiming that this conditioning provides a far superior result to just providing a common ground point. But all agree that having one's entire system share a common ground point is important, and can bring sonic benefits, even without the use of their (varyingly pricey) products. As per Caelin's reply to my question above (post #69), the Denali series provides a ground lug to serve as a common ground point, but it is just that and no more - it does not make use of any of the Denali filtering.

Just to expand upon this; the words 'filtered' and 'conditioned' and 'isolated' are all just ways of saying that in some manner that the noise level on the ground is reduced. We can get lost in semantics.

And to be very clear about it, there is NO method that completely eliminates ground noise. It is all relative levels of reduction. not absolute. There are many common methods to achieve this including the use of coils, baluns, common-mode filters, ferromagnetic metals and others including the patented use of ferroelectric compounds as used in our NIC (noise isolation chambers).

Methods that should not be used are those that insert a relay or solid-state component like an SCR or transistor in the safety ground path. These methods violate NEC code in the US and CE in EU countries. The safety ground was introduced many decades ago and is now a requirement in electrical code. Its sole purpose is to protect the consumer from electrical shock and to prevent fire. It has no other purpose and should not be defeated for any reason.

[CGabriel]

Thank you, your response is greatly appreciated. I don’t pretend to understand even a fraction of what you know about power management, so my questions are genuine. As a non-expert I am voting with my $$, but I desire good answers in return.

I do have an inquisitive nature and might ask uncomfortable questions, that does not mean I do not love my Shunyata products. I have plenty and think they are some of my best components.


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No worries mate. I just wanted to be sure that you don't think I am ducking a question. I don't mind answering questions. But if it gets contentious or degenerates into forum flame wars, I simply check out. Don't really have time or patience for that.

I will answer any question to best of my ability but sometimes the underlying technicality of the issue can make the answer seem overly complex as you pointed out. But, the complexity is sometimes necessary to be accurate. Otherwise, an overly simple answer opens the door for criticism about the technical accuracy of the answer. You understand?

[CGabriel]

Caelin, I understand the benefit of acronyms, having worked quite a long time in telecoms. My comment was sarcastic only to the extent to which acronyms are not meaningful. If a cryptic abbreviation must be used to make talking about a simple thing more interesting, power to you.

You just said it yourself, the Triton v2 grounding magic you praised and so elaborately filled with acronyms does not solve grounding issues. Some yes, others not. And I was talking about Nordost passive grounding. Did not want to pin it on your nose, but you asked.

My enquiry about the Triton arises from the fact that I saw a big box full of nothing on your stand in Munich. Peeking inside a Niagara is definitely more interesting.

Btw, IMHO an answer ‘read a book’ to someone who owns 10-15K worth of your products is an extremely weak one. But that’s just me.


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I respectfully disagree. Reading materials that provide basic information about a subject is not disrespectful. And I certainly don't know what level your technical understanding is at. It may be well beyond the material I referenced. Furthermore, when I give you an answer on a forum it is not just for your specific benefit. It is for the many lurkers that don't have your level of understanding. Additionally, I did go on to answer your questions specifically. So don't take it as a insult because it is not meant that way.

JFYI, I have both the Niagra 7000 and the Niagra 5000. There are many approaches to solve an engineering problem. We have been making power distributors since the year 2000 with a modicum of success. We believe in a simple, non-reactance approach to power delivery. There are other more conventional approaches that have multiple stages of filtering and complexity. I prefer to let the performance of our products speak for themselves.

[Kuoppis]

I respectfully disagree. Reading materials that provide basic information about a subject is not disrespectful. And I certainly don't know what level your technical understanding is at. It may be well beyond the material I referenced. Furthermore, when I give you an answer on a forum it is not just for your specific benefit. It is for the many lurkers that don't have your level of understanding. Additionally, I did go on to answer your questions specifically. So don't take it as a insult because it is not meant that way.

JFYI, I have both the Niagra 7000 and the Niagra 5000. There are many approaches to solve an engineering problem. We have been making power distributors since the year 2000 with a modicum of success. We believe in a simple, non-reactance approach to power delivery. There are other more conventional approaches that have multiple stages of filtering and complexity. I prefer to let the performance of our products speak for themselves.

If you read my earlier post, I did not say your answer was disrespectful. I said it was a weak answer towards a customer. But in your subsequent answers you gave it a try, which is a nice gesture.

And I think I might follow your example and try out the Niagaras as well. Been happy with the Triton, but it is interesting to try out something new once in a while. Will report back.


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[BlueFox]

Caelin, as long as you are in a question answering mode, I have one.

I have three 20 amp circuits, one for the source, and one for each amp. The source uses a Triton v3, and each amp has a Denali 2000T. The three circuits are on the same side of the panel.

All the gear, source and amps, are grounded to the Triton ground lugs. While it sounds great with no noise, hum, or any other negative side-effect, I do wonder if maybe I should redo the grounding.

In your opinion does it make sense to

1. Leave it as is. If it isn't broke then don't fix it.
2. Move the amp grounds from the Triton to the respective Denali.
3. Leave the amp grounds on the Triton, and add grounds from each Denali to the Triton.

Before I do anything other than number 1, I would like your opinion on which would make more sense. I can always experiment, but, being lazy, would rather listen to music.

Thanks.

[SCAudiophile]

Insofar as the TRITON v3 and new TYPHON QR are concerned, I can tell you from personal experiewnce here especially during my trial of the TYPHON here with a v3 TRITON that y'all should just try it and let the music speak for itself. It is doing so here in ways that I had not quite ever achieved before..."just sounds like music"!

[BlueFox]

I plan on soon giving one a try. If it makes the slightest improvement over the Typhon v1 then my CC will be in use. Add in a new Lumin in a few months, and I should be good for another 4-6 months.

That made me think of another grounding question. Should the Typhon be grounded to the Triton?

[Gondo101]

Caelin,
I got an offer of used D2000T, will it be a good idea to place D2000T before D6000S? I am thinking if QR/BB in D2000T will boost the performance of zone 1 and zone 2 in my D6000S.

thanks again for your advice

[CGabriel]

Caelin,
I got an offer of used D2000T, will it be a good idea to place D2000T before D6000S? I am thinking if QR/BB in D2000T will boost the performance of zone 1 and zone 2 in my D6000S.

thanks again for your advice

Plug the D2/T into the wall socket not the D6/S.
Use it to power your amplifier(s).

Use the the D6/T to power your source components.
Try the preamplifier into one of the HC outlets.

[Gondo101]

Plug the D2/T into the wall socket not the D6/S.
Use it to power your amplifier(s).

Use the the D6/T to power your source components.
Try the preamplifier into one of the HC outlets.

Thanks Caelin,
Initially I thought QR/BB in 2000T will have additive effect to 6000S QR/BB too

[Gondo101]

A rare review on Typhon QR, by the way, what does QRBB stand for?

https://www.soundstageultra.com/inde...er-distributor

[SCAudiophile]

Caelin can let us know...

An outstanding review that reveals the brilliance and positive musical impact on a system when the TRITON v3 and TYPHON QR.

Owning both for months now I can tell you the review is an understatement!

[CGabriel]

A rare review on Typhon QR, by the way, what does QRBB stand for?

https://www.soundstageultra.com/inde...er-distributor

Quantum Reserve / Ballistic Buffer

QR/BB is much easier.

This is a link to the US patent for those that are interested.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US...Caelin+Gabriel

[Gondo101]

Quantum Reserve / Ballistic Buffer

QR/BB is much easier.

This is a link to the US patent for those that are interested.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US...Caelin+Gabriel

good thing that there is no complete name on the packaging, I can’t imagine the custom officer first reaction when they see “Ballistic” name on it

I have read the paper, I am wondering how long to completely “charge” (for optimum usage) and to “discharge” (for safety reason) the QRBB module inside Typhon QR.

[CGabriel]

There is no residual stored charge. Relatively speaking less than a couple milli-seconds

[mdp632]

There is no residual stored charge. Relatively speaking less than a couple milli-seconds

Caelin,

is there a possibility the typhon Qr could be scaled down to a more accessible Denali version ? Eg , an add on for existing Denali 6000 owners like the typhon or perhaps an even higher end Denali 7000 that would incorporate more of the typhon QR technology to the Denali line ?

[CGabriel]

The Denali has a smaller QR/BB built in.
It’s just that in this case - size does matter.
Bigger is better.

[Gondo101]

Another online review: https://twitteringmachines.com/revie...-power-filter/

[Gondo101]

Is it possible to have special order of Typhon QR with normal duplex outlet? Because there are monoblocks with undetachable powercord (e.g. FM Acoustics etc)

[brodricj]

I bought a used Typhon-QR on Audiogon and installed it yesterday. The TQR is connected to the wall and to a Denali 6000/s via the 1m Sigma umbilical. When I turned on my Esoteric C1X it detected "CHECK PWR!" electrical fault. I asked Shunyata about this and they replied over night to try connecting the TQR and Denali to the same wall duplex. In this parallel configuration the C1X is not detecting an electrical fault. It's only when the TQR is powering the Denali via the umbilical that the C1X is detecting an electrical fault. Noise rejection in parallel configuration (1800mV>350mV) is not quite as good as series configuration (1800mV>250mV) but at least my C1X is not detecting an electrical fault. It's interesting that the C1X is not happy with the Sigma umbilical.

Another thing that happened is I have a Pakedge P20 power distributor and when I connected it to the TQR it went kaput, so that needs to be replaced. Whether coincidence I don't know but it's a p.i.t.b. losing 20 power outlets in my server rack.