Do you use an integrated in your main system?

**joeinid** · February 12, 2018, 10:05 AM

And if so, what are you using?

Or, could you be content with “just” an integrated?

**CPP** · February 12, 2018, 10:14 AM

I tell ya Joe, I've been looking at Quicksilvers new integrated for my office system http://quicksilveraudio.com/products...ted-amplifier/

**Mike** · February 12, 2018, 10:27 AM

Absolutely. For me, a Diablo 300, T+A PA3100HV, Luxman 509 or Pass INT-250 would fit the bill. Maybe the Luxman 590 too, but I don't know until I get it.

Integrated amps have come a LONG way.

**aKnyght** · February 12, 2018, 10:30 AM

main system uses an almarro a318b -- i don't adhere to any orthodoxy in terms of integrated or preAmp/amp; however, there is nothing that would make me give up the almarro. it can and will outperform anything i could put into the system. i just love this amp and it is a beloved family member.

unfortunately, i think this company has ceased operation... fortunately, the amp is hand wired and if needed can be serviced for the foreseeable future.

so, yes i could be content with "just" an integrated...

...and, if i had to start over i would at least begin with looking at an integrated -- just a more elegant system and modern examples can be crazy good.

**matt_zak** · February 12, 2018, 10:35 AM

If I could afford the T+A or Gryphon, yes I would be content. Alas, I have to feed the kids every day and have to wait. Lol

**Shadowfax** · February 12, 2018, 10:44 AM

I use an Integrated in my tertiary system, but it's nothing earth shattering. I was shopping around earlier for Integrateds to replace my main system but as of now have not come up with anything in my price range that blows away what I have.

System with Integrated is-

Rotel RX-1052
OPPO93 with Groneberg ICs
JM Labs Tantal 509s

I get really good sound as the speakers sit inside larger openings of built in cabinets on the sides of my fireplace.

When I finally move and downsize, I will be looking again for an Integrated for the main system.

**CPP** · February 12, 2018, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Absolutely. For me, a Diablo 300, T+A PA3100HV, Luxman 509 or Pass INT-250 would fit the bill. Maybe the Luxman 590 too, but I don't know until I get it.

Integrated amps have come a LONG way.

So far out of my price range , I might as well buy a new vette instead

of course Joe never mentioned price

But I tell ya the Pass Int-60 is an awesome integrated

**joeinid** · February 12, 2018, 11:30 AM

I guess I’d say under 10K but am a little flexible. I’d like to downsize from a full blown system but need to demo the Luxman M900u before committing to anything. I have a feeling the 900 combo will be killer but love the simplicity of an integrated.

I miss my Naim Supernait 2 with Hicap, especially with the Harbeth 30.1. That was an oh so musical system. Now that the 30.2 anniversary are out, I might have to revisit them.

I’m using my Job INTegrated now and loving the freedom it’s giving me. I’m focused on the music more and not the gear. I know it sounds crazy but a lot of my listening is low to medium level and this little thing sounds awesome. The DAC inside sounds great too. Too bad the monos are no longer in production but I’m hoping that’s temporary.

I love the Pass gear but heat is a concern for me.

Originally Posted by CPP

So far out of my price range , I might as well buy a new vette instead

of course Joe never mentioned price

But I tell ya the Pass Int-60 is an awesome integrated

**Sean** · February 12, 2018, 11:46 AM

Integrateds make a lot of sense to me - they save money and space but still can be such a treat to listen to. Units like the SN2 show that. Separates and monos one day, yes. But one shouldn’t feel “cheated” with an integrated.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**joeinid** · February 12, 2018, 11:48 AM

Well said Sean.

**CPP** · February 12, 2018, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

I guess I’d say under 10K but am a little flexible. I’d like to downsize from a full blown system but need to demo the Luxman M900u before committing to anything. I have a feeling the 900 combo will be killer but love the simplicity of an integrated.

I miss my Naim Supernait 2 with Hicap, especially with the Harbeth 30.1. That was an oh so musical system. Now that the 30.2 anniversary are out, I might have to revisit them.

I’m using my Job INTegrated now and loving the freedom it’s giving me. I’m focused on the music more and not the gear. I know it sounds crazy but a lot of my listening is low to medium level and this little thing sounds awesome. The DAC inside sounds great too. Too bad the monos are no longer in production but I’m hoping that’s temporary.

I love the Pass gear but heat is a concern for me.

The heat, of yes I moved my xa30 out of my office felt like I was in a sauna, and put my old Vincent back in its place , I've never heard a Supernait2 but the reviews are always complementary

**NickB** · February 12, 2018, 11:54 AM

I am currently switching between three integrateds here at the moment. Two I own, one I have on trial but will probably end up buying. I agree with Sean there is no need to feel short changed with an integrated these days, there are some stellar examples out there and not all require a mortgage to own.

**the professor** · February 12, 2018, 12:12 PM

It's out of the $10,000 price but the Diablo 300 is a great piece.

**AJR** · February 12, 2018, 12:18 PM

Diablo 300 all the way. If too expensive perhaps try the Diablo 120 (I tried it: awesome) or the Pass INT-60.

**Jim Smith** · February 12, 2018, 01:39 PM

Yes to OP.

The ASR Emitter II is easily the best amplifier - tube vs. ss - preamp & amp vs. integrated - that I have ever heard. It is an integrated, but so much more.

Sadly, the US marketing is non existent, as well as easily available warranty service. Fortunately, I have never needed it.

If I had not discovered it at a very attractive price (when compared to new retail), I would never have purchased it even though it's the best I've heard.

**Nikhil** · February 12, 2018, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

I’m using my Job INTegrated now and loving the freedom it’s giving me. I’m focused on the music more and not the gear. I know it sounds crazy but a lot of my listening is low to medium level and this little thing sounds awesome. The DAC inside sounds great too. Too bad the monos are no longer in production but I’m hoping that’s temporary.

+1

Another happy Job INT owner here.

**hifinutt** · February 12, 2018, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by NickB

I am currently switching between three integrateds here at the moment. Two I own, one I have on trial but will probably end up buying. I agree with Sean there is no need to feel short changed with an integrated these days, there are some stellar examples out there and not all require a mortgage to own.

extremely interested in your thoughts and which ones you have tried . my dealer wants me to try a thrax enyo valve which apparently is a stunning amp but a] its expensive b] its not that well known yet and in my experince that makes it very hard to resell when you upgrade

http://www.thrax.bg/Enyo.php

modwright kwi200 seems a very good value amp and has home theatre bypass which is good if we are talking integrated systems . pass int 60 is about double the price but extremely popular it seems

**TheOctopus** · February 12, 2018, 02:30 PM

I have nothing against integrated approach. A well designed integrated can be just as satisfying as separates. Using a PrimaLuna Dialog HP integrated which sings beautifully with the Harbeth 30.2. My next addition will also be an integrated. I've owned more separates than integrated in my life but I seem to be more drawn to a good quality integrated for the elegance of simplicity and less clutter.

**GSOphile** · February 12, 2018, 02:43 PM

Gryphon Diablo 300. I think it would be difficult to duplicate what it does for me in my system for close to the price.

**a.wayne** · February 12, 2018, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

Yes to OP.

The ASR Emitter II is easily the best amplifier - tube vs. ss - preamp & amp vs. integrated - that I have ever heard. It is an integrated, but so much more.

Sadly, the US marketing is non existent, as well as easily available warranty service. Fortunately, I have never needed it.

If I had not discovered it at a very attractive price (when compared to new retail), I would never have purchased it even though it's the best I've heard.

This it

https://www.stereophile.com/integrat...asr/index.html

DSkip · February 12, 2018, 03:36 PM

Most of the products I stock are integrateds and darn fine at that. My TOTL unit is the Evolution 845:

For an office, I'm thinking the new MastersounD BoX will be a GREAT solution. 35 watts of single ended goodness for a mere $3,000, including phono and remote:

**joeinid** · February 12, 2018, 04:30 PM

Drool. Love those integrated amps.

Originally Posted by DSkip

Most of the products I stock are integrateds and darn fine at that. My TOTL unit is the Evolution 845:

For an office, I'm thinking the new MastersounD BoX will be a GREAT solution. 35 watts of single ended goodness for a mere $3,000, including phono and remote:

**joeinid** · February 12, 2018, 04:33 PM

Isn’t the Job wonderful? It makes me smile.

Originally Posted by Nikhil

+1

Another happy Job INT owner here.

**Milk_vanilla** · February 12, 2018, 07:53 PM

switched to integrated for about 2 years, think will stay like this for couple few years. It simplify my living room rig.

Recently switch to accu e650(from e600), overall it gives more control and smoother to drive my sopra.

**octadyndude** · February 12, 2018, 08:50 PM

I've only had integrateds. Started off with a Denon PMA700 then went to the Bryston B100sst. The B100 was a little more dynamic but drier sounding and I always had a hum through the speakers. Went to the Octave V70se and later the V110. The V70 was dead quiet and beat the pants off the Bryston in SQ and dynamics (blacker background). The V110 had a 'hair' more of a blacker background and dynamics. Currently running the Aavik U300. The U300 does the Raidho D2.1's justice where the V110 fell apart when pushed pretty hard. But at low to med listening levels the V110 held it's own. The U300 does have a built in killer dac. Better than my old Naim nDac with XP5XS external power supply. The built in phono is supposed to be very good but I can't say because I don't own a pottery wheel anymore.

**Sean** · February 12, 2018, 09:24 PM

Skip, I’m looking forward to listening to that BoX.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Sean** · February 12, 2018, 09:26 PM

Joe, I’m curious to what you decide to demo, Integrated-wise, after the Luxman stereo amp.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Mr Peabody** · February 12, 2018, 10:38 PM

I graduated from receivers to integrated amps. It became an affordable way to enter into the higher end, going from Japanese integrated to Krell. Then onto to separates.

I wouldn't have a problem with an integrated again. It could be a way to move upward if I could afford something like a Gamuet, I think D'Agostino is in the same range. I have no idea what Vitus, Solution or Griffin cost, but integrated is a way to get a taste if not able to afford the separates.

I could easily live with an Octave Audio, I really like the Devaliet or Naim, to mention a couple. Although I like integrated, I'd attempt to draw the line at built in DAC. I said, attempt, the Devaliet has it and does a great job. Probably not an issue if it was made to upgrade as you go.

I'm sure that new Thrax integrated sounds great.

Isn't Job the same issue as ASR where there are no U.S. distributors or service.

**Mechnutt** · February 12, 2018, 10:52 PM

I have been thinking about selling all my electronics and going with a Vinnie Rossi Lio with tubes, built in DAC and phono stage. It would require new speakers however since it puts out 45wpc. My wife has been hinting about me down sizing. I am not quite ready to do it and give up on my Pass and BAT gear. Maybe in 4-5 years.

**Mike** · February 12, 2018, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mechnutt

I have been thinking about selling all my electronics and going with a Vinnie Rossi Lio with tubes, built in DAC and phono stage. It would require new speakers however since it puts out 45wpc. My wife has been hinting about me down sizing. I am not quite ready to do it and give up on my Pass and BAT gear. Maybe in 4-5 years.

I see some AG’s in your future.

Do you use an integrated in your main system?

**Jack** · February 12, 2018, 11:02 PM

Larry

Wasn't Vinnie talking about coming up with a larger amp module? Would sure make it attractive to a bigger audience.

**Jack** · February 12, 2018, 11:07 PM

Uno XD and LIO.

**Nikhil** · February 12, 2018, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Isn’t the Job wonderful? It makes me smile.

Absolutely! Just continue to be amazed with this amp.

**RDSChicago** · February 13, 2018, 12:55 AM

I think Integrated amps are getting better every year. I heard the Rogue Atlas Magnum power amp was great with the Quad 57's, so for a few hundred bucks more I bought the Cronus Magnum integrated which is an Atlas Magnum with a built-in preamp and phono stage. For a bit extra I love the additional space I saved vs. separates and also saved on having to buy additional IC's. I also have a 300b integrated from Melody which weighs just under 100 pounds and at 25 watts push pull, the transformers are so large they easily drive some mid-80's sensitivity monitors. So I'm all over the concept that one can make incredible music with an integrated amp. My Pass X20 preamp is feeling a bit unloved these days

**UltraFast69** · February 13, 2018, 01:46 AM

Throw in the benefits of not only space but two less power cables and one less XLR cable

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

DSkip · February 13, 2018, 02:39 AM

Integrateds are in a renaissance right now IMO. Separates are fun but offer their own complexities. I also like when manufacturers, like MastersounD does on their more expensive integrateds, allow for a preamp bypass feature. It gives you much more flexibility if you decide to play with other things.

**KeithR** · February 13, 2018, 02:41 AM

Absolutely - although it really depends on the integrated. There also seem to be way more "super integrateds" in solid state, than tube for some reason.

The Dart is the best SS integrated I've heard (would like to hear the Gryphon).

For tube, I almost went with a Jadis. That said if the Vac iq comes out this year, maybe that's your amp plus can get with phono stage which is super convenient and really lose boxes/cables. The Viva Solista is one I've stared at 100 times, but even though I love the looks not so sure on Viva sounds. It also runs quite hot and doesn't fit well on a rack.

Though truth be told, a TVC + stereo tube amp is a nice alternative and probably higher fidelity.

**asiufy** · February 13, 2018, 02:59 AM

Joe,

Slightly more than your $10k budget, but the darTZeel LHC-208 is a good choice. Let me know if you'd like to give it a try

cheers,
Alex

**NickB** · February 13, 2018, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by hifinutt

extremely interested in your thoughts and which ones you have tried . my dealer wants me to try a thrax enyo valve which apparently is a stunning amp but a] its expensive b] its not that well known yet and in my experince that makes it very hard to resell when you upgrade

modwright kwi200 seems a very good value amp and has home theatre bypass which is good if we are talking integrated systems . pass int 60 is about double the price but extremely popular it seems

I just looked up the Thrax you mentioned, looks like quite the bit of kit ! I echo your experience at moving on less well known gear no matter however well it might compare with other more well known brands.

With regard to the comments about the amps I am using that might be better sent to you as a PM. I feel it might be quite long and I would hate to crash someone’s thread with a long monologue on my system building

**joeinid** · February 13, 2018, 05:36 AM

Please share your experiences, I’m interested in some of the gear you have had and are using now.

**joeinid** · February 13, 2018, 05:38 AM

Thank you Alex. That could be fun. I’ve had other darTZeel gear. It’s on the list.

Originally Posted by asiufy

Joe,

Slightly more than your $10k budget, but the darTZeel LHC-208 is a good choice. Let me know if you'd like to give it a try

cheers,
Alex

**NickB** · February 13, 2018, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Please share your experiences, I’m interested in some of the gear you have had and are using now.

I think the one thing my current exercise has reminded me is that really is no universal right component for all situations. Until recently I was running my Grandinote Shinai through some Tune Audio Marvels and was thinking that the Shinai was the best integrated I had personally heard. An opportunity presented itself for me to get hold of a pair of Soundkaos Wave 40 speakers and this was a speaker I was super interested in but the cost was holding me back from a brand new pair. Lo and behold the Soundkaos speakers arrived and after settling for a while I was well and truly smitten, at this point they were still being driven by the Shinai and sounding pretty good too. Then I started reading around and some articles and reviews made me wonder if there was more to be had from the Soundkaos speakers.

I had read that the Bakoon range of amps were a good matchup for the Soundkaos speakers but lack of UK distribution put paid to being able to audition one in my system. It was really by accident that I read a review on 6 Moons of the Crayon Audio CFA1.2 and how this amp was cut from similar cloth to the Bakoon range. As luck would have it not only did Crayon now have UK distribution but had also introduced a new amplifier that word had it sounded superior to the CFA1.2. That amp is the CIA-1T it is pretty plain looking box compared to the CFA1.2. I arranged to have one sent out for an extended audition, thinking in my mind how can a unit half the price of the Grandinote even come close, especially given my high opinion of the Shinai. Here we are two weeks later and in the case of driving the Soundkaos speakers I think the Crayon is superior. The Soundkaos speakers are quick and full of finesse and the Crayon seems to show these subtleties more clearly than the Grandinote. In valve terms, although they are both solid state devices, the Grandinote is the punchy, meaty push pull while the Crayon is the airier SET. Having said that the Crayon is like an SET with huge cojones

This has surprised the heck out of me.

I also have a previously purchased Jadis I-50 that is yet to be slotted into the rack. I have hopes this might be right in the middle of the Grandinote and Crayon models. First and quick impressions gleaned while just making sure it actually worked were that it had all the lush musical sounds of previous Jadis models I have heard but was also more “modern” sounding and lighter on its feet. It does of course also look simply gorgeous. More to follow on the Jadis I think.

Meantime I am seriously considering pulling the trigger on the Crayon but still also wondering deep down if I could let the Grandinote go.

**joeinid** · February 13, 2018, 06:35 AM

I absolutely fell in love with the Soundkaos wave 40 speakers. A wonderful efficient speaker.

**hifinutt** · February 13, 2018, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by NickB

I think the one thing my current exercise has reminded me is that really is no universal right component for all situations. Until recently I was running my Grandinote Shinai through some Tune Audio Marvels and was thinking that the Shinai was the best integrated I had personally heard. An opportunity presented itself for me to get hold of a pair of Soundkaos Wave 40 speakers and this was a speaker I was super interested in but the cost was holding me back from a brand new pair. Lo and behold the Soundkaos speakers arrived and after settling for a while I was well and truly smitten, at this point they were still being driven by the Shinai and sounding pretty good too. Then I started reading around and some articles and reviews made me wonder if there was more to be had from the Soundkaos speakers.

I had read that the Bakoon range of amps were a good matchup for the Soundkaos speakers but lack of UK distribution put paid to being able to audition one in my system. It was really by accident that I read a review on 6 Moons of the Crayon Audio CFA1.2 and how this amp was cut from similar cloth to the Bakoon range. As luck would have it not only did Crayon now have UK distribution but had also introduced a new amplifier that word had it sounded superior to the CFA1.2. That amp is the CIA-1T it is pretty plain looking box compared to the CFA1.2. I arranged to have one sent out for an extended audition, thinking in my mind how can a unit half the price of the Grandinote even come close, especially given my high opinion of the Shinai. Here we are two weeks later and in the case of driving the Soundkaos speakers I think the Crayon is superior. The Soundkaos speakers are quick and full of finesse and the Crayon seems to show these subtleties more clearly than the Grandinote. In valve terms, although they are both solid state devices, the Grandinote is the punchy, meaty push pull while the Crayon is the airier SET. Having said that the Crayon is like an SET with huge cojones

This has surprised the heck out of me.

I also have a previously purchased Jadis I-50 that is yet to be slotted into the rack. I have hopes this might be right in the middle of the Grandinote and Crayon models. First and quick impressions gleaned while just making sure it actually worked were that it had all the lush musical sounds of previous Jadis models I have heard but was also more “modern” sounding and lighter on its feet. It does of course also look simply gorgeous. More to follow on the Jadis I think.

Meantime I am seriously considering pulling the trigger on the Crayon but still also wondering deep down if I could let the Grandinote go.

small world !! think it was me that followed on your review on the shinai on the wam

**NickB** · February 13, 2018, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by hifinutt

small world !! think it was me that followed on your review on the shinai on the wam

And there goes my 15 minutes of fame ...... on a Shinai review !! :-D

**NickB** · February 13, 2018, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

I absolutely fell in love with the Soundkaos wave 40 speakers. A wonderful efficient speaker.

I totally agree Joe I have been totally smitten by them. A wonderful speaker.

**Spock** · February 13, 2018, 07:33 AM

Sorry guys, but my experience is a little different. Yes, is true, i never try any high end integrated like most of you. But it was a long run with integrated amplifiers, like Sansui AU X711, NAD S300, Copland CSA28 and Classe CAP 101 (and some others with no pedigree!

)
For me, the option is for sure a pre power combo, and when i have time ($$$), a dual monoblock amplification. I have tried a mono combo from Arcam and noticed a clear step forward.
Some time ago, I said to the Portuguese dealer of Lyngdorf that i do my reservation from advance to the mono amps when they have it. First client here!

**wisnon** · February 13, 2018, 10:19 AM

I use a NAD c375BEE modified by Rowen (Rowen Swiss Power option- tweaked preamp section & negative output impedance for the power section). It is now capable of circa 750wpc into 1 ohm.

I run 2 Heil speakers on it, nominally 6ohms each. Never a power issue. Not practical to push beyond 1pm on the vol knob, as I have neighbours! Sonically, it performs at a similar level to the Job 250 monoblocs, but has a remote control and 4 output posts (A+B)...so more flexible suitable for my current setup. Bass control is outstanding.

**jdandy** · February 13, 2018, 10:52 AM

I love my vintage McIntosh MA230 integrated amplifier. It is the first integrated amplifier McIntosh manufactured. It has a solid state preamplifier and a 30 watts per channel tube amplifier on a single chassis. The 7591 outputs tubes make very sweet music. It's not modern or high powered but it drives a pair of JBL 4312A speakers very well.

**Mechnutt** · February 13, 2018, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jack

Larry

Wasn't Vinnie talking about coming up with a larger amp module? Would sure make it attractive to a bigger audience.

I believe Vinnie gave up on a more powerful amp module for the Lio. He stated that he could not fit it in the current chassis. Maybe he will come out with a larger integrated in the future. I would jump on one of his integrated's if it was 100-150wpc which would allow a wider range of speakers.

Vinnie is a great guy. I talked with him a while at Axpona 3 years ago. That's where I fell in love with the sound of the Lio and Harbeth speakers. A very organic, natural and smooth sound with a killer midrange. I could have listened to that system all day. And the Lio has been improved since then with cleaner power and a much better DAC.

Thread: Do you use an integrated in your main system?