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  1. #1
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    Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Is there any rule of thumb as to what component will benefit most from After Market Power Cables?

    If you have cords of varying value/performance, what component should you place your best cable on?

    I have been reading that Source (CD Player) is where you see the most benefit, but would like more feedback from AS members.

    Also, is larger gauge as important for Amps, or is 14 good enough?
    -----------------
    Brian

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  2. #2
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    in front of the power conditioner.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    My APC H15 actually came with the most robust cord of anything I ever bought (12G), but I was considering placing one on it. I did try my Amp direct to outlet and APC and I think thru APC sounded better. Maybe it is due to the fact that my house incoming voltage is actually lower than normal and the APC sends it back out closer to 120/125.

    What about gauge for that application? Is a good 14G cord adequate or would something thicker like the Pangea AC9 a good choice?
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  4. #4
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Brian......It has been my experience the best bang for performance improvement comes with premium power cables installed on your power amplifier(s). Having said that, I don't believe it is in the best interest of top notch sound system performance to mix and match various power cables, or interconnects for that matter. I began with stock power cables on all components and now have a total of 14 two meter Wireworld Silver Electra power cables feeding all components in two separate systems including the PS Audio Power Plant Premier AC regenerator in the living room system and the PurePower 2000 AC regenerator in the studio system. In both systems the biggest performance jump happened when I installed the Silver Eclipse power cables on the power amplifiers. After that there was incremental improvements in sound stage and overall clarity as I added additional Silver Eclipse power cable to the preamplifiers and source components. The combined synergy of the systems being cabled entirely with like interconnects and power cables has elevated both sound systems performance to a level that I don't think would be as resolving and dynamic had I not gone all in.
    Dan

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  5. #5
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Myself, like Dan, I like the loom approach, same brand cords/cables. However, my experience on best benefit is different. So some experimenting may be in order. It may depend on the gear, how well the power supply is filtered and such.

    My most remarkable improvement when adding a power cord was to my phono stage. Next was CDP, then preamp, the least noticeable was my power amps.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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  6. #6
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    Myself, like Dan, I like the loom approach, same brand cords/cables. However, my experience on best benefit is different. So some experimenting may be in order. It may depend on the gear, how well the power supply is filtered and such.

    My most remarkable improvement when adding a power cord was to my phono stage. Next was CDP, then preamp, the least noticeable was my power amps.
    Because all 3 of the ones I ordered did not come at same time, I first replaced CDP and Pre- Amp cables and got great improvements. When the 3rd cable came, the PS Audio AC3, I placed it on the Amp which now performs unlike any other time. The only experimenting so far was to swap the amp PC from the APC to dedicated outlet, but I think it sounded better via APC.

    So if I want to add one to the APC, I am trying to determine if I need thicker gauge (Pangea AC9) or if I should go with another PS Audio AC3. They are about the same cost, but I am assuming that the PS Audio is the "Better" cable regardless of gauge.
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  7. #7
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    I agree with those who believe you get the most bang with good power cords on your amps. Until recently (the last year or so) I subscribed to the position that we should stick with power cables from one company. After A/B'ing some alternatives to Transparent on my CD/DAC and clock I now use Shunyata on those components and from my Denali to the wall. I still prefer Transparent from my amps to the Denali.
    Jim

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  8. #8
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Most cable manufacturers I see do have a heavier gauge cord for power amps versus things like pre or source. However, I don't knowpersonally if there's a certain gauge, I went with the recommendation from the manufacturer buying the larger one fr power amps. I'll see if I can find the specs tonight.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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  9. #9

    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Hi Folks, just want to through in my 2 cents...I've been borrowing cables from The Cable Company for almost 15 years now...I've literally tried hundreds of Power Cords and Interconnects...

    I find that, sometimes, with certain companies, using the same brand interconnect throughout can be an advantage. I've found that with MIT's and JPS...most of the time I didn't find a need to use the same cable in all positions...actually in most cases I preferred not to.

    With power cords...and every system is different...but I've never found using the same PC to sound the best throughout. For example my MC402 barely changes with different PC's...and I've tried a dozen from $200-$1000. I find preamps and DAC's usually change dramatically with different PC's and I've never chosen the same PC for all three components.

    In the end, the only way to be sure is to experiment in your system and decide for yourself! Take your time...enjoy the process!
    Fate ain’t just who’s cookin smells good but which way the wind blows...

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  10. #10

    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    in front of the power conditioner.
    I’m with Mike here, best distributed effect.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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  11. #11
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    I’m with Mike here, best distributed effect.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    My APC is the only component that came with an adequate gauge PC, 12g.
    So my dilemma at the moment is whether I replace that with another 12g cord or bigger gauge.

    My Pre and Amp had 16g, while my CDP had an 18g. At the moment the Pre and CDP have 14g, and the Amp has 12g.
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  12. #12

    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    in front of the power conditioner.
    I could believe that...I don't use one so I can't say...but that would have an effect on the entire system...probably a good place to start...
    Fate ain’t just who’s cookin smells good but which way the wind blows...

    Mac Mini w/ linear power supply, Ayre QB-9 DSD, PS Audio BHK Signature, Mcintosh MC402, Joseph Audio RM33le, Magnapan 3.6r, Velodyne FSX12
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    ...endless tubes, cables and tweaks...

  13. #13
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    While the wire gauge is important removing any any stock molded end power cord is equally as important. The wire connections have poor termination and will restrict current delivery among other possible issues.
    Buddy

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  14. #14
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    I read somewhere that Nordost also believes that wall-to-conditioner is the most important.

    Am waiting on a High Fidelity Reveal PC and will try it on different components, but am particularly interested to hear what it does in the wall-to-Torus position.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    In regards to putting the cord before the power outlet device and having it distribute. I plugged a generic power strip into my PS Audio Quintet because something wouldn't reach. Don't do that, when I plugged that component into the Quintet directly I noticed the power strip degraded the sound quite a bit. I'm sure a power cord helps the main power product, just be careful on the distribution end

    Brian, I'd think if the APC came with a 14 gauge, I'd stick with that gauge when replacing it.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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    SVS PC13 Ultra
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  16. #16
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Last night I swapped the APC cord and the PS Audio on the Amp and APC. The bass tightened up a bit more but something happened with the vocals. I need to listen more before swapping them back.

    I'm amazed that you can further fine tune your sound aside from ICs, Tubes and Room Treatment, by swapping Power cables. My system has never sounded so good as it does right now.

    I'll look to replace the PC on the APC soon along with one for my OPPO. This really opens a whole new can of worms. I would love for all the naysayers to be able to hear these changes as they are not so subtle at all.
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
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  17. #17
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    From my experience with my own iterations of system and helping friends when asked and with a lot of different brands and levels of power cords
    over the years, I have that I place the best 1 or 2 power cords in the system on;

    1) your amp (or amps if you have mono-blocks) regardless of whether you have a power conditioner or not and whether you plug you amp(s) into it or not...
    2) the power conditioner for the system as a whole

    Going in this order has given me the biggest bang for the buck in each of the last 3-4 upgrade/change cycles I have started. Also, by starting with the amp(s)
    regardless of the topology of the rest of the system, I've been able to better discern the actual improvements (or none/negative impacts) a given power cord
    will bring versus what I used to do was a de facto choice of throwing it right on my power conditioner. I found with this method that it was more difficult (for me)
    to actually discern the specific attributes a pc would bring beyond it being 'better', 'no substantial impact' or 'sounds worse'.

    My most recent 2 upgrade cycles, in full, I've done the following;

    1) new pc on my Esoteric A-02 stereo amp; tested it plugged in to my power conditioner as well as direct into my dedicated circuit to know all the changes it brought
    2) after I decided to leave the new PC on the amp, the next one went on the power conditioner for the system as a whole
    3) DAC6
    4) Pre-Amp6
    5) Transport
    6) Master clock

    Hope this helps....
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  18. #18

    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldhasmail View Post
    I could believe that...I don't use one so I can't say...but that would have an effect on the entire system...probably a good place to start...
    Yes, Mike has probably right, but i do have not a conditioner too, so i also believe that the best place for the best power cord is the amplifier.

  19. #19
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    I did get another cord to replace the stock cord on the APC. The changes were not as dramatic as when I added them to Pre, Amp, and CDP but I did get a little more of the same quietness.

    What I am a little confused about is where I can know place my Volume Knobs.

    Before changing out any stock cables, I would regularly listen at 2 or 3 clicks, but could not hold a conversation without it getting in the way.
    Now with no other changes but 4 PCs, I can get the volume up to 6 or 7 clicks without the wife telling me to turn it down.

    So my question is, did the PCs cause a change in volume, or did the PCs remove all the noise so that the actual Music is still at same volume but no longer having a fatigue factor.

    I know most tube Pres like to run at at least half volume and for me it just keeps sounding better as it gets louder instead of me wanting to turn it down.

    Is my thinking on the right track or can PCs alter the volume somehow?

    I placed the APC cord on my Integra HT Receiver and swear the sound for movies got better but have not played around with that too much.

    By the way, now that I am convinced of how real using after market PCs is, when funds get to another level, in the future I will upgrade them to Cullen or Shunyata.
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  20. #20
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    My guess is the latter, the cord reduced noise and distortion.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
    Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
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    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
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  21. #21

    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    While being a whole-hearted disbeliever still a couple years back, having heard it in my own system, I now do believe that good power is like salt in the food.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  22. #22

    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Hi.
    My findings is that the best PC for an amp is not necessary the best for a transport. And if a PC can change the sound it will be necessary to test it everywhere in the system. And I think that it is not given that any upgrade PC will be better because it cost more . I use a cheap brand called Nimak for most of my High-end system. But they're all different gauges. I also use a cheap Viborg on my pre-amp instead of a Ps Audio ac12. The price for the Ps Audio ac12 in Norway is 10 times more than the preferred Viborg.
    In my system it's more easy to hear difference between PC than interconnects.
    What I don't understand is that how these PC can change the sound given that the gauge is correct. If anyone can explain how it works it would be great.

  23. #23
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2fastgt4 View Post
    Hi.
    My findings is that the best PC for an amp is not necessary the best for a transport. And if a PC can change the sound it will be necessary to test it everywhere in the system. And I think that it is not given that any upgrade PC will be better because it cost more . I use a cheap brand called Nimak for most of my High-end system. But they're all different gauges. I also use a cheap Viborg on my pre-amp instead of a Ps Audio ac12. The price for the Ps Audio ac12 in Norway is 10 times more than the preferred Viborg.
    In my system it's more easy to hear difference between PC than interconnects.
    What I don't understand is that how these PC can change the sound given that the gauge is correct. If anyone can explain how it works it would be great.
    I am no EE, but what I am deducing is that they don't "change" the sound, but rather get rid of noise and interference that allows you to hear more of the music and instruments without being clouded by noise.
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  24. #24
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    So after my Maze experience, I decided to stretch my budget a little and after speaking to Patrick, I just ordered a Gold Series cord from Cullen. Patrick also graciously took the time to answer other questions including suggested placement.

    He also suggested to place it on the APC if my Amp runs thru it, or the Amp itself if plugged direct to outlet.

    What a difference in companies!
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  25. #25
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Shadow, I have been using a Cullen Gold PC for about 2 weeks. I am using it on my Pass amp. I definitely feel that the background is blacker. I am going to try a Cullen Crossover for my preamp. I think that I will eventually replace the cords on my DAC, audio computer and LPS for my Regen with Cullen cables.
    My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR.

  26. #26
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    a] If it's a shielded cord, I would place it on whatever hi-fi component is radiating the most power line noise/interference.
    b] If it's a heavy cord, I would place it on whatever hi-fi component is drawing the most current.

  27. #27

    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    In Ansuz we believe that the most important cable of any systems are the one going from the outlet from the wall into the power distributioner or power conditioner.
    That cable sets the level of performance for the rest of the system.

    Other than that, we believe that analog > digital is the way to go in MOST cases
    Scansonic MB-1, Aavik U-300, Sony CD Player as transport, mixture of ansuz cables in different qualities, Ansuz Mainz X Power Distribution, Ansuz Power Distribution for DTC cables

  28. #28
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechnutt View Post
    Shadow, I have been using a Cullen Gold PC for about 2 weeks. I am using it on my Pass amp. I definitely feel that the background is blacker. I am going to try a Cullen Crossover for my preamp. I think that I will eventually replace the cords on my DAC, audio computer and LPS for my Regen with Cullen cables.
    Larry, any updates or new cables yet?
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  29. #29
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    So it's been several months since I put after market PCs in play. I had stopped trying to hear things a while ago and just enjoyed the music.

    But, all of a sudden I have noticed improved bass and clarity. My speaker/amp combo does not provide really deep bass, or so I thought. It's much better now than it was with stock cables.
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  30. #30
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Why would you think that cables (some of the most stable things in a hi-fi system) after a long period would cause the change in sound?
    There are so, so many more likely candidates.

  31. #31
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post
    Why would you think that cables (some of the most stable things in a hi-fi system) after a long period would cause the change in sound?
    There are so, so many more likely candidates.
    Nothing else in the system has changed at all, except the weather. But I usually feel my system sounds better in the dead of winter when it has snowed and all the other noise is suppressed. Maybe I am more used to the initial changes the cables provided. Either way, I am happy about it.
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  32. #32
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    It's been my experience, and others here have said much the same thing, that one particular brand/model of PC does not sound good everywhere. What works best on the amp is not necessarily best on the CD player, and visa versa.

    Unfortunately that means playing with PC's is a trial and error process. Your best bet is to find a manufacturer that allows demo's and returns, or borrow cables from other audiophile friends. Alternately, go to the used market and pick up a few things on the cheap. If they don't work out anywhere you can likely get your $ back on a resale.

    And yes, cords do break in and settle over time, so a 15 minute audition is not the way to make a decision on these things.
    Last edited by BobM; June 19, 2018 at 01:29 PM. Reason: rephrase
    Vine, Vide, Velcro - I came, I saw, I stuck around.

  33. #33
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    It's been my experience, and others here have said much the same thing, that one particular brand/model of PC does not sound good everywhere. What works best on the amp is not necessarily best on the CD player, and visa versa.

    Unfortunately that means playing with PC's is a trial and error process. Your best bet is to find a manufacturer that allows demo's and returns, or borrow cables from other audiophile friends. Alternately, go to the used market and pick up a few things on the cheap. If they don't work out anywhere you can likely get your $ back on a resale.

    And yes, cords do break in and settle over time, so a 15 minute audition is not the way to make a decision on these things.
    so, taking your advice and buying used and or sampling 'demos' why would I need to worry about 'break in' ??
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  34. #34
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    High Fidelity Cables top of the line PRO cord.
    I'm anxious to see what kind of sound/video improvements I get, feeding it into my High Fidelity Hemisphere power conditioner.
    Everything is plugged into the conditioner, including my Kuro plasma TV.
    I'll post my impressions when I receive it!



  35. #35
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    Re: Where to place your best Power Cord?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
    Brian......It has been my experience the best bang for performance improvement comes with premium power cables installed on your power amplifier(s). Having said that, I don't believe it is in the best interest of top notch sound system performance to mix and match various power cables, or interconnects for that matter. I began with stock power cables on all components and now have a total of 14 two meter Wireworld Silver Electra power cables feeding all components in two separate systems including the PS Audio Power Plant Premier AC regenerator in the living room system and the PurePower 2000 AC regenerator in the studio system. In both systems the biggest performance jump happened when I installed the Silver Eclipse power cables on the power amplifiers. After that there was incremental improvements in sound stage and overall clarity as I added additional Silver Eclipse power cable to the preamplifiers and source components. The combined synergy of the systems being cabled entirely with like interconnects and power cables has elevated both sound systems performance to a level that I don't think would be as resolving and dynamic had I not gone all in.
    Hi Dan. I have the PPP and looking to upgrade. How does the PurePower 2000 compare? Please feel free to PM me as to not further hijack the thread.
    Paul

    Speakers: Von Schweikert VR-5 Anniversary MK II Front L/R, LCR-35 Center, VR-1 Rear L/R Sub: JL Audio F113
    Amps: PS Audio BHK Signature 300 Mono, McIntosh MC207 Pre-Amp PS Audio BHK Signature and Gold Note PH-10 Phono Stage/PSU-10 Power Supply
    Turntable: VPI HR-X 12.7 TONEARM (2) and SDS, Stillpoints LPI
    Tape Deck Otari 5050B II2
    Music Server: Aurender N100H
    Cartridges: Ortofon Cadenza Black, Lyra Helikon Mono Digital Source: Oppo UDP-205 DAC: Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE
    SSP: Marantz AV8801 Cables: Wireworld Electra 7 (P) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7, Shunyata Delta NR (I) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 (S)
    Wireworld Platinum Starlight 7 (USB)
    AC Power Regeneration: PS Audio DirectStream P15 Power Plant and Shunyata Denali 6000s V2.

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