REL No. 25 versus G1 MkII, versus 212SE... - Page 2
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  1. #11
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    Re: REL No. 25 versus G1 MkII, versus 212SE...

    There is so much that I could say, speaking from the experience of successfully voicing over 300 systems-with-subs to rooms, especially about the need (or not) to change the subs' settings for certain types of music.

    Perhaps this 7-part series on subwoofers from Copper e-mag will offer some insights for those who have the time & interest:


    Subwoofery: Trick Or Treat?


    http://www.psaudio.com/article/subwoofery-trick-or-treat/


    Subwoofery: Trick or Treat? - part 2

    http://www.psaudio.com/article/trick-or-treat/


    Wait A Minute!

    http://www.psaudio.com/article/wait-a-minute/


    Subwoofery: Smooth Operator?


    http://www.psaudio.com/article/smooth-operator/

    Subwoofery: Location, Location, Location


    http://www.psaudio.com/article/location-location-location/


    Subwoofery: The Basics

    http://www.psaudio.com/article/38363/


    Subwoofery: The Finale

    http://www.psaudio.com/article/subwoofery-the-finale/
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  3. #12
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    Re: REL No. 25 versus G1 MkII, versus 212SE...

    After reading some of the articles they are very informative. I not gonna lie but most of my settings are by ear. And I agree the the “taste” section. When I play modern music the bass is set to my liking. But with classical and jazz I have specific setting I dial in to my “taste”

  4. #13
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    Re: REL No. 25 versus G1 MkII, versus 212SE...

    IME & IMO, - and that's all it is - not presented as some absolute fact:

    If you have to adjust the subs for different types of music, you have a bit more work to do.

    Anytime that you are aware of them, there is still some integration to be done.

    I am referring to "full-range" speakers & subs, not satellites & subs.

    Often, it's because we forget that when we raise or lower the level slightly, we need to adjust the xover freq in the other direction. Otherwise, raising the sub volume level with RELs will always raise the xover frequency, same applies for reducing the sub volume level always lowering the xover freq.

    Of course, this applies more obviously when the first aspect of any set-up is achieved - locate the best listening position in the room (for smoothest bass) for the main speakers. In general, the speakers shouldn't get any meaningful adjustment until the anchor point (listening position) is located.
    Small Green Computer, gigaFoil 4 Ethernet filter w/ Keces PS-3, Sonore ultraRendu, MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; AQ Diamond USB, Duelund USB, Curious USB; Lush USB, Supra USB; PS Audio LanRover; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; 4 Audioquest Diamond ethernet - 0.75M, 1.5 M, 3M, 5M; Audioquest Diamond AES - 3M; Schiit Yggdrasil - updated; Ayre Codex - updated; Wyred4Sound STP-SE-2 preamplifier, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/KT150s; Wyred4Sound STP-750E Mk II amplifier w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amplifiers w/KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Symposium Super Plus Speaker Platforms: Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA ICs; Tripp Lite PCs; Stealth Dream PCs; dedicated custom room; various room treatments; etc.

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  5. #14
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    Re: REL No. 25 versus G1 MkII, versus 212SE...

    I agree with Jim. It's been my experience also. Once setup a sub's settings should not need to be adjusted.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    IME & IMO, - and that's all it is - not presented as some absolute fact:

    If you have to adjust the subs for different types of music, you have a bit more work to do.

    Anytime that you are aware of them, there is still some integration to be done.

    I am referring to "full-range" speakers & subs, not satellites & subs.

    Often, it's because we forget that when we raise or lower the level slightly, we need to adjust the xover freq in the other direction. Otherwise, raising the sub volume level with RELs will always raise the xover frequency, same applies for reducing the sub volume level always lowering the xover freq.

    Of course, this applies more obviously when the first aspect of any set-up is achieved - locate the best listening position in the room (for smoothest bass) for the main speakers. In general, the speakers shouldn't get any meaningful adjustment until the anchor point (listening position) is located.
    Jock

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  6. #15
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    Re: REL No. 25 versus G1 MkII, versus 212SE...

    Quote Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post
    My great experiences with REL for 2-channel and home-theater is more than a bit dated given ownership of B1 Britannia(s) preceded by Stadium and Stentor.

    Other than what I've found online in terms of the obvious "RTFM" differences in low-frequency specs., amplification differences and WiFi (No. 25 and 212SE),
    what would those of you with experience with these 3 models have to say about the No. 25, G1 and 212SE performance for a full-range 2-channel only
    setup that is used to play everything from pipe organ, taiko drumming, jazz, classical, new age, fusion, R&B, Techno, Rock, Prog-Rock, etc...i.e. the
    full spectrum sans Rap and Country? Speakers and system overall are in my signature and posted elsewhere on this forum.

    How close in particular is the performance of the 212SE to the No. 25 for 2-channel listening only?

    Does the use of the classic REL Class AB amplification (which I always loved in my B1 and prior models) give a more musical response than their
    newer Class D designs and is it worth grabbing a G1 for my purposes and living without LongBow/WiFi?

    There are also a couple of 9/10 condition B1 Britannia still available out there; that sub excelled (at least for me and my system at the time) at
    2-channel as well as standing tall in a HT installation. I'm tempted to grab the B1(or plural) and go with what worked well for me before but I
    do see differences in the latest offerings that has my attention. The 13 Hz +/- 6db spec and real-life performance of the B1 was a hard act
    to follow so I'm looking to make the best choice possible to firmly tap the region of sub-bass from 21-23 Hz on down to pipe organ and synth
    foundation frequencies....

    ***I have always loved the high-level 100K ohm input method REL pioneered and think it is superior for 2-channel blending.
    Many others favor low/line-level input subs with DRO and other forms of digital integration (Velodyne, JL, etc...). Not meaning
    to start a philosophical or audio-religious bonfire here, but to all of your minds and ears out there,....does REL still stand up
    as one of the best in 2-channel subwoofer integration and musical quality? Any other brands I should be considering?

    Thanks in advance for the help!

    Hi, did u find out which is better the 212 or the G1MKii?

  7. #16
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    Re: REL No. 25 versus G1 MkII, versus 212SE...

    IME & IMO, the 212SE is the best REL sub I have heard or worked with.
    Small Green Computer, gigaFoil 4 Ethernet filter w/ Keces PS-3, Sonore ultraRendu, MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; AQ Diamond USB, Duelund USB, Curious USB; Lush USB, Supra USB; PS Audio LanRover; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; 4 Audioquest Diamond ethernet - 0.75M, 1.5 M, 3M, 5M; Audioquest Diamond AES - 3M; Schiit Yggdrasil - updated; Ayre Codex - updated; Wyred4Sound STP-SE-2 preamplifier, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/KT150s; Wyred4Sound STP-750E Mk II amplifier w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amplifiers w/KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Symposium Super Plus Speaker Platforms: Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA ICs; Tripp Lite PCs; Stealth Dream PCs; dedicated custom room; various room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.com

  8. #17
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    Re: REL No. 25 versus G1 MkII, versus 212SE...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    IME & IMO, the 212SE is the best REL sub I have heard or worked with.
    Hi Jim,


    The G1MKii has AB amp, while it is a reference model for REL. at the same time their other reference the No25 has class D amp!! To me this is confusing. Why would they use 2 different technologies at the same reference level?! This makes me feel that the 212 is better than the G1Mkii because it shares the sane technology as the No25.

    2 more questions plz:
    Can you tell me how the S5 sounds compared to the 212?
    Could you please share with me why you prefer the 212 over the G1MKii?

    I am sure that you realize that the G1 has carbon driver and sealed box design with no passive drivers. This makes me feel that it is faster and more tight due to the lack of the passive drivers.

  9. #18
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    Re: REL No. 25 versus G1 MkII, versus 212SE...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanbobo View Post
    Hi Jim,


    The G1MKii has AB amp, while it is a reference model for REL. at the same time their other reference the No25 has class D amp!! To me this is confusing. Why would they use 2 different technologies at the same reference level?! This makes me feel that the 212 is better than the G1Mkii because it shares the sane technology as the No25.

    2 more questions plz:
    Can you tell me how the S5 sounds compared to the 212?
    Closer to to the 212SE than other models in the S Range. Agile & tuneful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanbobo View Post
    Could you please share with me why you prefer the 212 over the G1MKii?
    Less thick, more agile, tuneful, and alive, yet with better control..

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanbobo View Post
    I am sure that you realize that the G1 has carbon driver and sealed box design with no passive drivers. This makes me feel that it is faster and more tight due to the lack of the passive drivers.
    My opinion comes from in-depth experience with the various models. It could be flawed and could have had more to do do with the rooms. I have no idea as to why, except to recount my actual experience with a dozen or so installations with these units.

    Re the S5, it is an exceptional value, IMO.
    Small Green Computer, gigaFoil 4 Ethernet filter w/ Keces PS-3, Sonore ultraRendu, MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; AQ Diamond USB, Duelund USB, Curious USB; Lush USB, Supra USB; PS Audio LanRover; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; 4 Audioquest Diamond ethernet - 0.75M, 1.5 M, 3M, 5M; Audioquest Diamond AES - 3M; Schiit Yggdrasil - updated; Ayre Codex - updated; Wyred4Sound STP-SE-2 preamplifier, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/KT150s; Wyred4Sound STP-750E Mk II amplifier w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amplifiers w/KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Symposium Super Plus Speaker Platforms: Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA ICs; Tripp Lite PCs; Stealth Dream PCs; dedicated custom room; various room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.com

  10. #19
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    Re: REL No. 25 versus G1 MkII, versus 212SE...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    Closer to to the 212SE than other models in the S Range. Agile & tuneful.



    Less thick, more agile, tuneful, and alive, yet with better control..



    My opinion comes from in-depth experience with the various models. It could be flawed and could have had more to do do with the rooms. I have no idea as to why, except to recount my actual experience with a dozen or so installations with these units.

    Re the S5, it is an exceptional value, IMO.
    My room is 23 x 15 and do have a pair of S5. But would like to upgrade to the 212 or G1Mkii
    Why upgrade?
    My goal is to achieve a big orchestral atmosphere. I need something better and faster than the S5. I am limited to REL subwoofers, this is why I am between the 212 snd G1
    Your advice?

  11. #20
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    Re: REL No. 25 versus G1 MkII, versus 212SE...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanbobo View Post
    My room is 23 x 15 and do have a pair of S5. But would like to upgrade to the 212 or G1Mkii
    Why upgrade?
    My goal is to achieve a big orchestral atmosphere. I need something better and faster than the S5. I am limited to REL subwoofers, this is why I am between the 212 snd G1
    Your advice?

    Did you upgrade your REL’s? I have a similar size room. Wondering how it turned out for you ....

 

 
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