Magico M3 & S3 mk2 win 2017 Golden Ear Awards

[Mike]

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[Kuoppis]

Saw that, but have not found any information yet.

Will be exciting.


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[Melbguy1]

The M3, yes I agree with. But the S3 Mk2 over the S5 Mk2? At the recent LA Audio show Robert Harley rated the S5 Mk2's in his top 6 cost no object loudspeakers ahead of the S3 Mk2, noting "Magico S5 MkII driven by VAC in the Scott Walker Audio room was stunningly spacious and dynamic; Magico’s own exhibit of the S3 MkII was also superb." Valin also described the S5 Mk2's as "Best of show-contending" at Axpona this year. Adam (Elberoth) has heard both speakers & obviously owned the S5 Mk2's, and concurs the S5 Mk2 is the better speaker. TAS apparently don't seem to be listening to their own reviewers feedback. My guess is they gave the gong to the S3 Mk2 because it is the first speaker in the S range to have graphene bass drivers (as opposed to the substantial graphene-reinforced aluminium drivers on the S5 Mk2), so there is a bit of a novelty factor there. And it is the new kid on the block. For sure the S3 Mk2 is a terrific loudspeaker. I just don't think it is a better speaker than the S5 Mk2 if we're talking about Golden Ear awards.

[Alpinist]

The M3, yes I agree with. But the S3 Mk2 over the S5 Mk2? At the recent LA Audio show Robert Harley rated the S5 Mk2's in his top 6 cost no object loudspeakers ahead of the S3 Mk2, noting "Magico S5 MkII driven by VAC in the Scott Walker Audio room was stunningly spacious and dynamic; Magico’s own exhibit of the S3 MkII was also superb." Valin also described the S5 Mk2's as "Best of show-contending" at Axpona this year. Adam (Elberoth) has heard both speakers & obviously owned the S5 Mk2's, and concurs the S5 Mk2 is the better speaker. TAS apparently don't seem to be listening to their own reviewers feedback. My guess is they gave the gong to the S3 Mk2 because it is the first speaker in the S range to have graphene bass drivers (as opposed to the substantial graphene-reinforced aluminium drivers on the S5 Mk2), so there is a bit of a novelty factor there. And it is the new kid on the block. For sure the S3 Mk2 is a terrific loudspeaker. I just don't think it is a better speaker than the S5 Mk2 if we're talking about Golden Ear awards.

Hi David,

TAS does tend to go with the newest models and that would be the M3 and the S3 MkIi. Not to worry, the S5 MkII solidly holds its position in the Magico line.

Best,
Ken

[BlueFox]

David, the awards are based on what a writer considers best. Harley picked the $170K Rockport Lyra speaker, and Valin wasn't one of the writers making picks.

I also noticed they gave my Pass XP-20 an award this year. Obviously people with good taste work there.

[Melbguy1]

David, the awards are based on what a writer considers best. Harley picked the $170K Rockport Lyra speaker, and Valin wasn't one of the writers making picks.

This is the selection criteria for Golden Ear awards according to TAS - "Golden Ear Awards represent, in our editors' collective opinion, the best highend audio products available regardless of cost. Products are awarded a Golden Ear purely on sonic performance". By all means point me to the relevant source document if their selection criteria has since been updated.

[Kuoppis]

So this is indeed quite nice praise for the S3 mk2, to take home this prestigious award - for all the reasons as outlined before.

Looking forward to taking delivery of my S3 mk2s later this week.


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[Mike]

This is the selection criteria for Golden Ear awards according to TAS - "Golden Ear Awards represent, in our editors' collective opinion, the best highend audio products available regardless of cost. Products are awarded a Golden Ear purely on sonic performance". By all means point me to the relevant source document if their selection criteria has since been updated.

You raise a good point David. Is the award for the absolute best? The best in a price category, despite saying "regardless of cost"? What exactly?

Maybe the S7 should be on the list??

[Mike]

So this is indeed quite nice praise for the S3 mk2, to take home this prestigious award - for all the reasons as outlined before.

Looking forward to taking delivery of my S3 mk2s later this week.


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How can you even sleep?

[BlueFox]

David, see page 63 of the September 2017 issue. As I said, it is the choice of the individual writer. I was wrong though. Valin is listed. I missed him when I first looked. He picked the M3, and Quint picked the S3.

image.jpeg

[Melbguy1]

You raise a good point David. Is the award for the absolute best? The best in a price category, despite saying "regardless of cost"? What exactly?

Maybe the S7 should be on the list??

Harley clarifies in the article that the Editors Choice awards are for more affordable gear, noting "our Editors' Choice list now imposes a price cap limiting the products recommended to those that are "real-world." You'll find very expensive products in Editors' Choice (loudspeakers up to $25,000 for example), but not those components that are, as HP is wont to say, "hideously expensive." We save the most costly and esoteric products for special honors in our Golden Ear Awards."

The S7 has been around for a while now, but then again the M3 came out before both the S5 Mk2 and S3 Mk2, so why not?

[Kuoppis]

How can you even sleep?

Barely .

This is really exciting. While impressed in Munich, hearing the next gen in my own system will be something special.

While the level of innovation has been proven time and again, this again exemplifies how significant the level of advancement in the M Pro was. Luckily the goodies are trickling down into the range.


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[Melbguy1]

David, see page 63 of the September 2017 issue. As I said, it is the choice of the individual writer. I was wrong though. Valin is listed. I missed him when I first looked. He picked the M3, and Quint picked the S3.

Thanks for posting that excerpt Bud. According to the article, it appears TAS have changed their selection criteria since HP's time, now giving sole discretion to individual writers as you said. My takeaway is I think Andrew Quint needs to do more listening, and less writing.

[Kuoppis]

My takeaway is I think Andrew Quint needs to do more listening, and less writing.

Ever entertained that thought yourself?


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[Melbguy1]

Ever entertained that thought yourself?

1. How ironic. 2. I've been an audiophile for 30 years and owned 5 pairs of speakers (including two pairs of Magico's) in the last 8 years. 3. I'm posting my opinion in an open, friendly forum free from trolls. and 4. This award isn't even that significant - It's just one writer's opinion, not like a Product of the Year award!

[Melbguy1]

Hi David,

TAS does tend to go with the newest models and that would be the M3 and the S3 MkIi. Not to worry, the S5 MkII solidly holds its position in the Magico line.

Best,
Ken

That makes sense Ken, and +1 .

[XV-1]

Ever entertained that thought yourself?


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[Melbguy1]

Small things amuse small minds..

[the professor]

If this is the Selection Criteria then NEITHER the S3 MkII or S5 MkIII should be on the list. The M3 is better than either one.

This is the selection criteria for Golden Ear awards according to TAS - "Golden Ear Awards represent, in our editors' collective opinion, the best highend audio products available regardless of cost. Products are awarded a Golden Ear purely on sonic performance". By all means point me to the relevant source document if their selection criteria has since been updated.

[Melbguy1]

If this is the Selection Criteria then NEITHER the S3 MkII or S5 MkIII should be on the list. The M3 is better than either one.

Purely as a loudspeaker, without taking into account room considerations, I completely agree with you that the M3 is the better speaker (as it should be for twice the price (of the S5 mk2)). Though it's interesting to note that the S5 Mk2 uses exactly the same midrange drivers as the M3 (Part no: MAG6004RTC) .

[KeithR]

doesn't TAS do an awards section every other issue these days

[the professor]

I agree - If you put in "value" in their selection criteria then the S3 MKII should definitely be there. But they expressly say that it's sonic only.

Purely as a loudspeaker, without taking into account room considerations, I completely agree with you that the M3 is the better speaker (as it should be for twice the price (of the S5 mk2)). Though it's interesting to note that the S5 Mk2 uses exactly the same midrange drivers as the M3 (Part no: MAG6004RTC) .

[Melbguy1]

I agree - If you put in "value" in their selection criteria then the S3 MKII should definitely be there. But they expressly say that it's sonic only.

At it's price point, absolutely! TAS state in their promo cover below "We pick the best!" However it seems more like "He picks the best". As I read it, judging is at the discretion of individual writers, and not by consensus as per the Editors Choice Awards. Also the original intent of the award being reserved for "cost no object" gear seems to have been lost in translation. Keith's point about having too many awards is valid. Even Stereophile jumped on the bandwagon by adding another (unnecessary imho) rating to their long-established rating system (Class A+).

[Kuoppis]

Excerpt from the S3 mk2 award text:

"The new S3 sports Magico’s highly regarded diamond-coated beryllium tweeter, plus midrange and bass drivers fabricated with a remarkably light yet stiff nanographene material that no one else uses. These loudspeakers represent a system with multiple dynamic drivers speaking as one, and with complete tonal faithfulness: a recording’s true character, good or bad, is revealed."

Andrew Quint points out one of the key advantages wrought by the diamond coated tweeter and graphene mid and woofers: excellent top to bottom coherence.

Really looking forward to the forthcomig review.


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[GSOphile]

I agree - If you put in "value" in their selection criteria then the S3 MKII should definitely be there. But they expressly say that it's sonic only.

Perhaps the undocumented qualifier is that the award by a TAS writer is based on the writer's having spent time with the product. And not all of their writers are covering products well above the S3 Mkk II's price point (a la RH and JV, for example).

[BlueFox]

Perhaps the undocumented qualifier is that the award by a TAS writer is based on the writer's having spent time with the product. And not all of their writers are covering products well above the S3 Mkk II's price point (a la RH and JV, for example).

Exactly. They can only comment on gear they are familiar with. It wouldn't make any sense to recommend something that you haven't heard/reviewed.

[Kuoppis]

And I guess they award products they are impressed with - whatever price brackets they are in.

As both awarded Magicos are diamond coated beryllium tweeter + all the way graphene, that appears to be what ticks the right boxes. The magic is in the coherence.


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[Melbguy1]

As both awarded Magicos are diamond coated beryllium tweeter + all the way graphene, that appears to be what ticks the right boxes. The magic is in the coherence.

The fact that both Magico models use graphene diaphragms in their bass units is purely coincidental, and a product of the fact that TAS haven't reviewed the S5 Mk2 or S7 as another member pointed out to me.

So I'll eat some humble pie as I incorrectly assumed the S5 Mk2's should have earned a Golden Ear award over the S3 Mk2 if it was an either/or proposition, when in fact the S5 Mk2 was ineligible. My apologies to all!

[BlueFox]

And I guess they award products they are impressed with - whatever price brackets they are in.

They award products they have reviewed. Obviously, if a person hasn't reviewed something they can't award it.

[Kuoppis]

They award products they have reviewed. Obviously, if a person hasn't reviewed something they can't award it.

I think that goes without saying. And they review products they find interesting.


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[Melbguy1]

I think that goes without saying. And they review products they find interesting.

I think the thing we can all can agree on is that there is really no other dynamic loudspeaker at that price point which can deliver the blend of technology and ultimate sound the S3 Mk2. And that is why it deservedly won a Golden Ear. Enjoy them in good health! .

[The Sandman]

Golden Ear Awards are fun, especially when the gear you love (or better, own) is listed. But it's really mostly marketing and hype, not a definitive listing.

[Alpinist]

Excerpt from the S3 mk2 award text:

"The new S3 sports Magico’s highly regarded diamond-coated beryllium tweeter, plus midrange and bass drivers fabricated with a remarkably light yet stiff nanographene material that no one else uses. These loudspeakers represent a system with multiple dynamic drivers speaking as one, and with complete tonal faithfulness: a recording’s true character, good or bad, is revealed."

Andrew Quint points out one of the key advantages wrought by the diamond coated tweeter and graphene mid and woofers: excellent top to bottom coherence.

Really looking forward to the forthcomig review.


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It's been my experience that you can't beat the coherence of drivers designed from the same materials such as the S3 Mk2's Nanographene midrange and woofers. It can be seamless in its integrity and presentation. This is what attracted me to the Vandersteen 7 Mk2's with its carbon balsa sandwich of its tweeter, midrange and woofer. It is impossible to hear where one driver ends and the next begins, even when your ear is right next to the speakers. I look forward to reading your impressions, once you take delivery of your S3 Mk2's!

Congrats!
Ken

[parkcaka]

The awards are like 1.200 pages long and literally there is an award for every product in the market. Paradigm, GoldenEar, TAD, ATC, Rockport, Wilson, Magico, YG, Crystal Cable, German Physiks, Watkins, Harbeth, B&W, Zellaton got Golden Ear Awards this year with multiple models! in SPEAKERS category. The list is nearly every product they reviewed.

Ok, M3 and S3 are incredible speakers, one of the best out there, don't take my words above against them. My point being; GEA is just... I don't know.


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[Melbguy1]

It's been my experience that you can't beat the coherence of drivers designed from the same materials such as the S3 Mk2's Nanographene midrange and woofers. It can be seamless in its integrity and presentation. This is what attracted me to the Vandersteen 7 Mk2's with its carbon balsa sandwich of its tweeter, midrange and woofer. It is impossible to hear where one driver ends and the next begins, even when your ear is right next to the speakers.

Ken, In my experience using identical materials for the bass, mid & tweeter (such as my previous Marten Coltrane Alto's) certainly can help overall coherency, but does not guarantee it. There is a lot more that goes into it such as cabinet design/integrity, x-over design & even internal wiring. Adam (Elberoth) also noted the cone material in bass drivers doesn't really matter that much in a properly designed 3-way speaker.

The Magico S3 mk2 (like the rest of the S series) is not completely time coherent. They are completely phase coherent in the x-over & very coherent sounding however. Vandersteen achieve time and phase coherency through a combination of a carefully stepped enclosure, driver materials/tuning and 1st order crossover design (not for the faint hearted!). That introduces it's own problems/challenges, but not insurmountable. Magico achieve very coherent sound from a flat front baffle and high order x-over through it's SOTA design and engineering excellence.

[Alpinist]

Ken, In my experience using identical materials for the bass, mid & tweeter (such as my previous Marten Coltrane Alto's) certainly can help overall coherency, but does not guarantee it. There is a lot more that goes into it such as cabinet design/integrity, x-over design & even internal wiring. Adam (Elberoth) also noted the cone material in bass drivers doesn't really matter that much in a properly designed 3-way speaker.

The Magico S3 mk2 (like the rest of the S series) is not completely time coherent. They are completely phase coherent in the x-over & very coherent sounding however. Vandersteen achieve time and phase coherency through a combination of a carefully stepped enclosure, driver materials/tuning and 1st order crossover design (not for the faint hearted!). That introduces it's own problems/challenges, but not insurmountable. Magico achieve very coherent sound from a flat front baffle and high order x-over through it's SOTA design and engineering excellence.

Hi David,

You definitely make some excellent points about time and phase coherence. While using the same materials in different drivers does not guarantee great sound, it can certainly enhance cohesiveness and musicality. You really have to tip your cap to Alon for bringing both a Nanographene midrange and Nanographene woofers to the S3 Mk2. At this price point, it is a pivotal development and makes the S3 Mk2 punch way above its weight. I've heard it and it is a terrific sounding loudspeaker.

Best,
Ken

[Melbguy1]

Hi David,

You definitely make some excellent points about time and phase coherence. While using the same materials in different drivers does not guarantee great sound, it can certainly enhance cohesiveness and musicality. You really have to tip your cap to Alon for bringing both a Nanographene midrange and Nanographene woofers to the S3 Mk2. At this price point, it is a pivotal development and makes the S3 Mk2 punch way above its weight. I've heard it and it is a terrific sounding loudspeaker.

Best,
Ken

Hi Ken,
I think you're over-playing the importance of using identical diaphragm materials throughout, especially re: the bass drivers. I'm with Adam in that atleast as far as the S series is concerned, the benefits of using graphene-reinforced Carbon Nano-Tec diaphragms for the bass is negligible (ie: It's more about marketing). The cabinet integrity of the S5's will put the S3's to shame based on what I know of the previous generation models. Yes the new S3 woofers look cool, but I think the cabinet is a more important ingredient to bass performance. I say this because the Q3's have old school woofers, but man the bass is so so good because of that cabinet. That said, an often overlooked fact is that the S5 Mk2's bass units have large 4" diameter graphene-reinforced Carbon Nano-Tec dust caps, thus conferring much the same benefits to the diaphragm (ie: light weight, stiffness, damping). Summing up, the S3 and S5 Mk2 both punch well above their weight at their respective price points.