Ayre QX5 Twenty

[Mike]

The Ayre QX5 Twenty.

Firmware update coming.

[joeinid]

Awesome, looks like more companies are getting onboard.

[wisnon]

Good for Charlie!

[Ctsooner]

Guys, I want to make sure that everyone understands that the QX5 (as well as many others) will only do the first unfolding of MQA and not more. You will hear better sound, but it's not the full monty as some feel it is. Alex and I were talking about this before he left for AQ. Still well worth it.

**Moderator Update: we have learned, this is incorrect. See pages later on for update. **

[Ctsooner]

I havne't been in touch with Ayre since Alex left for AQ. Mike, any word on the MQA? I know I just had an update to the firmware, but didn't know if it was for the MQA too. If so, can I just use my mconnect app using Tidal to stream it directly into the Ayre and get MQA if I'm listening to the Masters stuff or will I need a computer to stream it into the QX5? Thanks all.

[Mike]

I havne't been in touch with Ayre since Alex left for AQ. Mike, any word on the MQA? I know I just had an update to the firmware, but didn't know if it was for the MQA too. If so, can I just use my mconnect app using Tidal to stream it directly into the Ayre and get MQA if I'm listening to the Masters stuff or will I need a computer to stream it into the QX5? Thanks all.

No word on MQA on the QX-5 - yet.

[Ctsooner]

Thanks Mike. Before Alex left, he got in touch and told me that they were MQA ready and I posted that. Then later on he said he was premature (fill in the blank) and that they weren't quite ready. Then he also told me that it would do the first unfold only, which I guess is what many of the DAC's will be. I don't fully understand, but am trying to, lol.

Hopefully soon as it sounds great though my Noble can's and the little AQ Red Das on the computer.

[Mike]

Thanks Mike. Before Alex left, he got in touch and told me that they were MQA ready and I posted that. Then later on he said he was premature (fill in the blank) and that they weren't quite ready. Then he also told me that it would do the first unfold only, which I guess is what many of the DAC's will be. I don't fully understand, but am trying to, lol.

Hopefully soon as it sounds great though my Noble can's and the little AQ Red Das on the computer.

No company can get MQA certified that quickly. It can take come companies 2 years for the legal/hardware/software verification process. I chuckle when I read about some companies thinking they can do it in a week.

[wisnon]

No company can get MQA certified that quickly. It can take come companies 2 years for the legal/hardware/software verification process. I chuckle when I read about some companies thinking they can do it in a week.

Totally correct Mike!

[Ctsooner]

That makes more sense. I wonder though if it was somehow easier and quicker, if we'd see it in more devices? Hope they can get it done soon though as I'm really wanting to be able to use it ...like many others.

[wisnon]

That makes more sense. I wonder though if it was somehow easier and quicker, if we'd see it in more devices? Hope they can get it done soon though as I'm really wanting to be able to use it ...like many others.

You basically have to hand over control of your Dac's inner working to them, in order for them to fully implement the antidote for the filer notch used in the original ADC.

Honestly, it better to have 2 Dac engines in one box, as possibly MQA circuitry may interfere with the Dac's non-MQA playback (from an absolute purist point of view). Nobody says this, but I could see MSB Select2 having such an internal bypass/workaround for when MQA is disabled. Just my speculation.

[Mike]

Pete - I think there is so much misinformation out there about MQA.

On one hand, I hear that to build a full blown MQA DAC, the company must agree to use certain specific hardware components - in addition to specific code, in addition to contractual compliance and this process takes +/- 2 years.

On the other hand, I see Lumin has had no trouble usurping the hardware part of it and it was my understanding that only Berkeley received and official "carve out" of those hardware requirements because, the former HDCD boys presented a better hardware alternative. As a side note, the folks at Berkeley have told me, as good as the MQA is, the changes they've made to the code have made PCM even better than it was.

As to those who believe that by Tidal delivering the first unfolding of MQA gives you 90% of MQA, I met with Bob Stuart at Munich and he fell over laughing at such comments. He said, "at best, it's not even close to 50%".

At the end of the day, we will have to just wait and see what manufacturers decide to do.

[Ctsooner]

Thanks Mike. That makes much more sense than what's been told by most. As customers, we just want the best and easiest way to listen to our music. I know that Ayre will only do the first unfold which is only a software change (or am I off here?).

[Mike]

Thanks Mike. That makes much more sense than what's been told by most. As customers, we just want the best and easiest way to listen to our music. I know that Ayre will only do the first unfold which is only a software change (or am I off here?).

It is my understanding that Tidal does the first unfold. That means, you can play MQA files through your Ayre QX5 Twenty (but you can with any DAC, soooo....).

[Ctsooner]

Ok, I thought that's what it was all about. So why is it a big deal for these DAC's to be 'MQA Compliant'. Is it just marketing or is there something else going on here? I didn't worry about an MQA DAC when I bought and I assume that if Ayre feels it needs to do the full monty MQA, they will offer a hardware upgrade like they with the 9 and DSD after a few years of it being out.

Digital is just so confusing for many of us. I am close with a few of the digital guys on CA and other boards and they are walking me through things when it comes to servers and set ups for the network. So far the Aurender N10 is beating out so many of the computer based servers on SQ and ease of use. Heard that Lumin is doing nice job also and is very very simple to use and to rip your stuff to. I want to learn as much as I can, but with the MS, I lose so much of what I hear or read, so in the end, it will just be all about simple and sounding the best for my budget. Simple as that, but I'll still try and keep up the best I can....or can't, lol.....

[Mike]

Ok, I thought that's what it was all about. So why is it a big deal for these DAC's to be 'MQA Compliant'. Is it just marketing or is there something else going on here? I didn't worry about an MQA DAC when I bought and I assume that if Ayre feels it needs to do the full monty MQA, they will offer a hardware upgrade like they with the 9 and DSD after a few years of it being out.

Digital is just so confusing for many of us. I am close with a few of the digital guys on CA and other boards and they are walking me through things when it comes to servers and set ups for the network. So far the Aurender N10 is beating out so many of the computer based servers on SQ and ease of use. Heard that Lumin is doing nice job also and is very very simple to use and to rip your stuff to. I want to learn as much as I can, but with the MS, I lose so much of what I hear or read, so in the end, it will just be all about simple and sounding the best for my budget. Simple as that, but I'll still try and keep up the best I can....or can't, lol.....

Aurender, Auralic and Lumin are the leaders in the "awesome sound, keep it simple" categories. If you like to play computer, than there is no shortage of discussions. If you want to play music, stick to the KISS principle.

I do worry about the confusion between marketing and true technology. As you said, it creates confusion. There is so much misinformation out there. When we add Roon into the mix, it can really add to the level of confusion.

There are a handful of DAC manufacturers who have been around the top digital products for many many years: Berkley, MSB, DCS, Lampizator, etc. to name a few.

Man, it seems like yesterday that I was loving my Weiss and Wavelength DAC's. Where are they now?

[Ctsooner]

Totally agree Mike. My friends just got his new Light harmonic mk 2 yesterday and the USB board was broken right out of the gate. Broken.... It was their first mk 2 shipped and they will replace the unit, but that's a 35k unit. Things that make you head shake to be honest. Some of the costs for digital only make sense when you realize that for the Asian markets, they need to have a huge mark up and then discount the hell out of the piece as that's the Asian way for purchasing. Spent a lot of time over there in the past and can fully understand that. It does screw with the prices in the rest of the world though. I haven' heard his Davinci yet, but I know his ear and he feels it's the best DAC by far he's had. He and I both have owned the Empirical Audio (Steve Nugent) DAC's and they sound incredible, but again, it's a one man show and he'll retire within the next 5 years or so most probably and good luck getting it fixed.

I own Steve's server that is a rebuilt Mac Mini with Paul Hynes LPS. I've had the N10 and W20 in the house and mine sounds just as good. Just a different sound, but better than any computer based server I've ever heard. That said, I am not a computer guy and I know I am able to somehow put it on the net and run Room and HQPlayer with it if I want ....er wait.....

I'll sell it as it's well worth the price for someone just for the well recorded (some high rez) songs and the Paul Hynes LPS, which takes years to get and I don't think he's even taking orders anymore. Then I'll see what the companies are up to and probably just get the Aurender, load my 1k or so CD's and use their own software, which is easy and looks nice on a pad or phone. As much as I loved working with Room when I've been able to, I just don't think I'm going to go there.

I was talking with the SGM guys and they showed me a simple ethernet adaptor to get rid of the noise on the line so I don't need to even finish my optical converter. Ease of use just sounds great now days and I want a company behind my gear to fix any problems as digital seems to have more user problems as well as equipment fails than analog gear.....jmho

[CPP]

You know I was wondering, since to have a totally certified MQA device of course you send it in and MQA and the Dac maker work out the little items that make it a certified MQA Dac But ! Does MQA sign any documents that forbid MQA for sharing any design charcterictisc of the sent in Dac/streamer ? Makes you wonder what's in the paper trail or as they say "it's in the fine print"

[audio.bill]

I was talking with the SGM guys and they showed me a simple ethernet adaptor to get rid of the noise on the line so I don't need to even finish my optical converter.

Unless you're under a non-disclosure agreement, would you be so kind as to share the details on that recommended Ethernet adapter with us? Could be very helpful for others, TIA!

[Ctsooner]

Bill, no non disclosure. Let me ask first. They aren't expensive and they also aren't selling them. He offered the advice. Let me check. thanks.

[Ctsooner]

Network isolators. http://www.emosystems.com/network-isolators/

[audio.bill]

Thanks, after a quick look at their available models I'm guessing that the EN30 would probably be the one to choose. Any further thoughts on that choice from our network experts?

[Mike]

Network isolators. http://www.emosystems.com/network-isolators/

Cool!


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[Ctsooner]

I trust the guy I was speaking with. He gave me a couple of others to look at, but these are cheap and easy. You can also use the fiber optic converter deal with it if you feel you need it. I doubt that anyone really will need it. So many of these things are overkill and are you really lowering the noise floor that much more. Fiber optics will lower it GREATLY. I've heard it in too many places to know. I was also told that this inexpensive and easy to use device does nearly the same thing and they couldn't hear any difference between the two. Makes sense, but what do I know, lol. Would love to hear the engineers also.

[wisnon]

Ok, I thought that's what it was all about. So why is it a big deal for these DAC's to be 'MQA Compliant'. Is it just marketing or is there something else going on here? I didn't worry about an MQA DAC when I bought and I assume that if Ayre feels it needs to do the full monty MQA, they will offer a hardware upgrade like they with the 9 and DSD after a few years of it being out.

Digital is just so confusing for many of us. I am close with a few of the digital guys on CA and other boards and they are walking me through things when it comes to servers and set ups for the network. So far the Aurender N10 is beating out so many of the computer based servers on SQ and ease of use. Heard that Lumin is doing nice job also and is very very simple to use and to rip your stuff to. I want to learn as much as I can, but with the MS, I lose so much of what I hear or read, so in the end, it will just be all about simple and sounding the best for my budget. Simple as that, but I'll still try and keep up the best I can....or can't, lol.....

There are 3 parts to MQA.
1) 2 stage unfolding
2) Filter adjustment to undo the "evil" of the ADC used in the original recording
3) the lights that guanrantee provenance and artist approval.

Tidal can do part 1. You need MQA compliance to get 2 and 3. This means you HAVE to hand over details of your internal design and collaborate with them.

[Ctsooner]

so many designers won't do that. Hard to see anyone sharing since one of the owners of MQA is Stewart. Interesting. I've heard it a few times over the last couple of years and usually through a full Meridian system. For me, that's not a great high end system, but it sounded so much better with MQA, than the same recordings without it. Again, so much misinformation. Thanks for the tips.

[Alpinist]

I've got an incoming Berkeley Reference 2 DAC with full MQA compatibility. The DAC is all ready to be shipped, Berkeley is just waiting for signoff by the MQA folks before they can ship it to me. I don't really know too much about the MQA process but the timing was right and I paid a few extra dollars to have it included in my unit. I'm looking forward to taking delivery, so I can give my opinion of it. I'm also really looking forward to using it with Tidal.

Best,
Ken

[mdp632]

I've got an incoming Berkeley Reference 2 DAC with full MQA compatibility. The DAC is all ready to be shipped, Berkeley is just waiting for signoff by the MQA folks before they can ship it to me. I don't really know too much about the MQA process but the timing was right and I paid a few extra dollars to have it included in my unit. I'm looking forward to taking delivery, so I can give my opinion of it. I'm also really looking forward to using it with Tidal.

Best,
Ken

Wow. I look forward to your impressions. Especially since this should be a full MQA unfold in combination with Tidal? If you don't mind me asking. Or maybe Mike can chime in. Did Berkeley increase the MSRP of the Reference DAC? As a a result of MQA?

Thanks

[Alpinist]

Wow. I look forward to your impressions. Especially since this should be a full MQA unfold in combination with Tidal? If you don't mind me asking. Or maybe Mike can chime in. Did Berkeley increase the MSRP of the Reference DAC? As a a result of MQA?

Thanks

I believe the MSRP on the Berkeley MQA upgrade was $500, most of which goes to MQA licensing fees. So based on that, the MSRP of the Berk Ref DAC 2 would go to $20K from $19.5K.

Best,
Ken

[wklie]

Thanks, after a quick look at their available models I'm guessing that the EN30 would probably be the one to choose. Any further thoughts on that choice from our network experts?

At CA forum you'll find discussions about these medical-grade network isolator, comparison with audiophile product RLI-1, and fiber media converters. I think 6moons also have reviews for two or more of these network isolator products.

(Note: I've also read a few reports that claim isolators may also have detrimental effects on SQ while reducing noise...)

[wisnon]

I've got an incoming Berkeley Reference 2 DAC with full MQA compatibility. The DAC is all ready to be shipped, Berkeley is just waiting for signoff by the MQA folks before they can ship it to me. I don't really know too much about the MQA process but the timing was right and I paid a few extra dollars to have it included in my unit. I'm looking forward to taking delivery, so I can give my opinion of it. I'm also really looking forward to using it with Tidal.

Best,
Ken

Excellent!

Enjoy.

[wklie]

The Ayre QX5 Twenty now handles MQA.

Firmware update to follow.

Status update:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...comment=706355

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...comment=706409

[Ctsooner]

So it doesn't do MQA. Very interesting. I was just posting in March what Alex at Ayre told me to share. Obviously he didn't know what was going on at the time. MQA just seems to difficult to understand at times no matter how simple folks try to make it for the mainstream, lol. Sorry to all who misunderstood.

[Kuoppis]

Ayre are quite conservative on format evolution I guess. Remember how long it took them to get on board with DSD. Maybe it is a similar thing with MQA.

It also appears that MQA is still a bit of a political hot potato as well.


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[wklie]

Ayre are quite conservative on format evolution I guess. Remember how long it took them to get on board with DSD.

http://www.ayre.com/insights_dsdvspcm.htm

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...e-so-annoying/

[Mike]

So it doesn't do MQA. Very interesting. I was just posting in March what Alex at Ayre told me to share. Obviously he didn't know what was going on at the time. MQA just seems to difficult to understand at times no matter how simple folks try to make it for the mainstream, lol. Sorry to all who misunderstood.

I echo those sentiments as well. Alex told me the same thing. Said a firmware update was imminent.

[Mike]

I have updated the thread title and made a few changes to correct the misinformation we were given.

[CPP]

I have updated the thread title and made a few changes to correct the misinformation we were given.

SO it appears from Charles comments over at CA, Ayre will not be doing MQA at this time.

[Mike]

SO it appears from Charles comments over at CA, Ayre will not be doing MQA at this time.

I would suppose so.

[Kuoppis]

I would suppose so.

Once in a lifetime I tried to be politically correct, hence the cautious statement .

I see Charley's point, but at the day's end, if MQA will prevail I believe he will come around. He has a business to run after all.

But that might take a while. Let's keep in mind, it takes a bit more than a bit of Tidal streaming to establish a new format in the market.


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[wisnon]

MQA implementation takes like 2 years to complete now. Its is a non trivial endeavour and the queue is loooong.
MQA future is really in streaming, it makes sense there. I hardly see a huge market for downloads, as any potential purchaser already likely has Tidal.

[Kuoppis]

In the Dec issue the Ayre QX5/20 received the Stereophile honors for 2017 Digital Product of the Year together with the Mytek Brooklyn.

Congrats Charley!


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[Ctsooner]

I'm still loving mine. Have listened to so many of the newer ones that cost more. Some are a tad more detailed, some are less so, but maybe warmer, but so far I have yet to hear any that would make me want to make a change. Digital is just so system dependent. More so than any other component I feel.

[Ctsooner]

Hi all. not sure ref anyone will want to respond to this thread anymore. I have gotten the Emo 30 ethernet filter. I use it with 2 lengths of the new WireWorld cat 8 Platinum cables. My router is the Eero mesh system. I have three units in the townhouse (2600 sf plus the basement). One unit is IN the basement, one is behind my main system and one is behind the Linn Kiko all in one system in the master BR. I have the Eero router behind the main system plugged into the Wyrd4Sound LPS unit using it's high current supply and the low supply running my Empirical Audio Synchro Mesh reclocking unit for the TV, Bluray and Apple TV units if I recall (I can't remember if Apple TV is plugged in or not, lol). I have the W4S unit plugged into the Audioquest Niagara 1000 using it's stock cable.

I hear a larger sound stage adn a cleaner presentation when using Tidal streaming via the Ayre unit. The noise floor is nearly non existent. I was amazed by the filter difference, but honestly, when I plugged the router into the LPS unit, I heard a larger difference. Same thing happened when I did the reverse to double check. The filter hasn't degraded the sound so far from what I hear, but it's also limited use as I normally use my Steve Nugent server with Paul Hynes LPS unit. I have The Memory Player coming in on the 10th. Sam Laufer/Mark built their brand new quad AK Dac chipset into the server. It has too many cool goodies in there to list here, but I'm praying this DAC beats the top 20k DAC's on the market as they think it does. I know Sam is using our friends Davinci mk2 as his reference as well as other 20k plus DAC's. I'll believe that when I hear it as I"m all about proof and not puff. If so, I"m lucky. they were also kind enough to install a nice analog pre in addition to the digital one it comes with. This way I can upgrade to mono blocks or a stereo amp that will fit my 'normal' sized TV cabinet that I have no choice but to use. I'm bummed as I was strongly considering Mike's Constellation Taurus stereo amp or a friends Centaur mk 1 amp. Neither will fit properly which sucks. I am also looking strongly at the new Vandersteen M5 mono blocks that list for just under 16k and will be shipping very very soon I was told.

I need to sell my Ayre AX5/20 and then figure out how much I will have to work with for my next amp. Baby steps for me, lol. Just wanted to share my ethernet filter thoughts.