Aurender W20 vs my hot-rodded PC server

[Elberoth]

I've been playing with PC audio for the past 5 years. I've started with a standard CAPS v2 Lagoon server and have ended up with pretty much maxed out CAPS v4 Pipeline server:

- sever MoBo and RAM
- battery PSU for the SSD
- linear ATX PSU
- Jcat Femto USB card
- Jcat SATA cable
- Teddy Pardo PSU for the USB card
- Win Server 2012 OS
- Audiophile Optimizer 2.00
- external music HDD (NAS)

I also have UpTone Audio UltraCap LPS-1 & JS-2 PSUs, Regen, Jcat (Intona) USB isolator, Wyred Recovery etc.

So I was pretty much covered ... or so I thought.

Yesterday, I brought home the Aurender W20 for the first time and ... it sounds better. Damn. A bit fuller in the midrange. Not a night and day difference, but I prefere it over my server.

Now what ? I will have to start saving up for the W20. Or the N10, if it is really close in performance.

[audio.bill]

If you have the opportunity to do so you may want to also check out the Lumin U1 which some users prefer to the Aurender N10. Mike sells both lines.

[Mike]

Adam - yup! No surprise. I was like you, CAPS this, CAPS that, tweaking everything, building a killer PC, super MAC mini, etc. I chuckle to myself when these guys think someones home made super-duper PC is better than the Aurender/Lumin U1. Once I heard the Aurender/Lumin U1, it was game over. The other products are dust collectors.

LeRoy (Odyssey) recently did a N10 vs W20 shootout.

Also, make sure you add the Lumin U1 to your audition list if you can.

[Elberoth]

Well, not all CAPS are beeing eaqual. In fact, the CAPS term may be very misleading, as my computer is radicaly different to a regular CAPS v4 Pipeline, with which it only shared a MoBo, CPU, RAM and case.

All other parts have been replaced, with very substanial SQ gains. I just thought it was enough to eclipse Aurender W20 and similar, but well ... it turned out, I was overly optimistic !

The only two more tweaks I may try with my server is:

- UpTone Audio UltraCap LPS-1 & JS-2 PSUs to supply the Jcat Femto USB card (right now it is still on internal power)
- going to Core Mode

I could also try the HQ Player instead of Jriver.

[jdandy]

Yesterday, I brought home the Aurender W20 for the first time and ... it sounds better. Damn. A bit fuller in the midrange. Not a night and day difference, but I prefer it over my server.

Now what? I will have to start saving up for the W20. Or the N10, if it is really close in performance.

Adam.......As soon as I read your thread title, even before clicking on it, I knew the results. If you never experience First Class, you don't miss it. Once you do, there's no going back. I have a sneaking suspicion you knew exactly what was about to happen as your carried the W20 in your front door. Adios CAPS......Hello Aurender.

[Mike]

I just thought it was enough to eclipse Aurender W20 and similar, but well ... it turned out, I was overly optimistic !

I'm not surprised...honestly.

IMO, no guy building a computer in his basement is going to surpass the R&D of what Aurender & Lumin are doing. I also think, if you don't have your own app, you're only half way there.

[the professor]

I keep reading more and more people coming to the same conclusion.

Congrats.

[cmarin]

If you're looking at the W20, you may want to also try the Sound Galleries Monaco (SGM2015) server. The SGM is an all-out assault on sound quality and integrates Roon/Tidal and HQPlayer seamlessly.

I would also suggest looking at the Audio Alchemy Digital Media Player (DMP-1). The DMP is a bit-perfect player that punches way above its budget and integrates Tidal/Roon seamlessly.

I own them both. And each can be an excellent match depending on your DAC.


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[cmarin]

Adam,

I hadn't realized you were the OP!

Hope you are well. It has been quite a journey from the original CAPS route. Technology has moved quickly and in very positive directions.

Best regards,


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[hifial]

If you are going to check out the W20 then do yourself a favor and also check out the Sound Galleries Monaco, SGM 2015. You will not be sorry.

It is a shame you are not in the New Jersey/NYC metro area. I will be hosting a "demo" of the SGM 2015 on the 11th of Dec. You should contact Ed aka Eurodriver to set up a demo for you.

[Elberoth]

I know SGM concept well. I've been present on the official press launch event in Munich @ BMW Welt. The problem is, I cannot borrow one locally. With the Aurender, I do not such a problems - all models are just one phone call away - I can have any model next day on my door steps, as the distributor is a good friend of mine.

I also have the SOtM sMs-200 and (malfunctioning) Sonore MicroRendu. I will try them against the Aurender W-20 as well.

[Elberoth]

I'm not surprised...honestly.

IMO, no guy building a computer in his basement is going to surpass the R&D of what Aurender & Lumin are doing. I also think, if you don't have your own app, you're only half way there.

It is not exactly the right comparo.

My server is built around parts that have been engineered by others - Intona (Jcat Isolator), Adnaco Technology (Jcat USB Card), Teradak, Bakoon etc - I just put them together.

[Mike]

It is not exactly the right comparo.

My server is built around parts that have been engineered by others - Intona (Jcat Isolator), Adnaco Technology (Jcat USB Card), Teradak, Bakoon etc - I just put them together.

I tried SOTA parts too when I build my various music servers over the years. None of mine could beat the Aurender or Lumin U1 either.

[cmarin]

I tried SOTA parts too when I build my various music servers over the years. None of mine could beat the Aurender or Lumin U1 either.

Couldn't agree more Mike.

I'm willing to sacrifice convenience for improved sound quality, and although each increment in my CAPS journey resulted in not insignificant improvements in sound quality, in the end all of the previous experiments are now on the sidelines.


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[hifial]

I know SGM concept well. I've been present on the official press launch event in Munich @ BMW Welt. The problem is, I cannot borrow one locally. With the Aurender, I do not such a problems - all models are just one phone call away - I can have any model next day on my door steps, as the distributor is a good friend of mine.

I also have the SOtM sMs-200 and (malfunctioning) Sonore MicroRendu. I will try them against the Aurender W-20 as well.

Too bad.

Other than the SGM I am sure the W20 will beat the others sound quality wise.

[Devg]

I have gone through possibly all things and within my means that hunched me it would increase the SQ of computer audio - thanks for being a member at CA :-) To name a few - JPlay Dual PC setup with WS 2012R2 and AO in core mode, microRendu, linear power supply, fanless SMPS power supply, battery power to SSD/USB card, PPA motherboard clock upgrade, PPA low noise DDR3 RAM, OCXO and TCXO Clocks, different USB card JCAT/PPA, Industrial Intona, PPA network switch, a bunch of different high $$ ethernet cable, Fiber FMC, Wyred4Sound R2R, Uptone Regen, iFi DC purifier, Bios settings, and a host of different things which I don't even remember. While some added some small increment to the SQ, they either did something bad to other parts of SQ or nothing to home run about.

At one point my music room looked like a lab rather than anything - gazillions of power supply with gazillions of DC and power cables going to different parts of computer/NAS/system. If I turned everything off, I can guarantee nobody, except myself, would be able to get my system up. I found myself more and more everyday tweaking things rather than deeply enjoying music. One which started as a fun project, over time became incredibly complicated and difficult to maintain setup.

Even if you are a system integrator and integrating best of the best parts available off the shelf, you never know how good they work together and this is one of the reason why a DIY products (mostly for folks like us who doesn't have measuring instruments) will never be able to compete with a professional product, like a Lumin or Aurrender. If I look back on all the money spent, I could have gotten a Aurrender N10 or a Lumin A1 and if I had to start over, I would definitely go this route.

[Marslo]

Being a happy owner of W20 for several years ( one of the first models with 6TB) I went to Sound Galleries last September for listening session.
My Lampi is 256 fs, first R2R version. Geoffrey Armstrong prepared the setup with T+A 8 Dac , the files were upsampled to 512 fs DSD with HQ Player using Roon.
I was very much impressed by the sound especially transparence, resolution and far from technical very smooth playback.
Now the question arise- was it better than my W20-B7 combo?
The comparo was not side by side and the rest of the setup was different ( altough I know Avantgarde speakers quite well) but I would say that the potential of SGM 2015 is bigger than this one of W20.
If I had no Aurender I would probably go for SGM but the process of copying over 2 TB of files and the price of SGM make the switch questionable.
Moreover last month I am back to sacd played with my La Fontaine and must say that I like very much what I hear.

[Elberoth]

Well, it seems there is still hope

I added the UpTone Audio JS-2 and UltraCap LPS-1 PSU combo to feed my Jcat Femto USB card (it was powered internally by not-so-clean power from the MoBo before) and now my PC server and Aurender W20 are neck to neck. I have been switching back and forth the whole day, and I cannot say I have a preference for one or the other. They are very, very close. I would not be able to tell them apart in a blind test.

Which is a great sign, as I still have the Core Mode and HQ Player up my sleeve to try (I've been using the Jriver 21 in bitperfect (Bitstreaming) mode playing DSD files vs the Aurender).

But still - if you consider how many boxes I have now (the server itself + 4 (FOUR !) outboard PSUs + Synology 1815plus NAS) - the Aurender W20 is still a great all-in-one solution for those who have the funds and are not into the geek stuff.

Honestly, if you have the money and would rather spend your time listening to music than solving the hardware issues, the Aurender W20 is still way to go.

[cmarin]

Adam,

I agree with your assessment of the JS-2. I tried several other LPS, and the Uptone JS-2 was the best amongst the ones I tried by far.

My last CAPS version included the JS-2 powering the MOBO, USB card and internal SSDs that stored the OS and music files in a Computer audiophile/Zalman case; and used WS2012R2, Audiophile Optimizer in ultimate core mode, and JRiver (bit perfect).

This last CAPS version was head and shoulders above any CAPS server configuration I had previously tried in my system.

I did not hear this server against the Aurender lineup, but a trusted colleague tried the same server without the WS2012/AO and JS-2, and in his opinion it was preferred to the W20 (perhaps an earlier version).

My last CAPS version now sits inside a closet. It has been bested by far by both the Audio Alchemy DMP-1 (bit perfect) player (developed by Peter Madnick of Constellation Audio and Audio Alchemy) and the SGM2015/HQPlayer.

Without a doubt, the W20 presents a high performance option for those that have the funds, inclination to spend them, and are looking for a great user-friendly experience.

I would only suggest that those who fit that profile, may also want to consider the SGM2015; and for those willing to spend a lot less cash, the AA DMP-1.



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[RSB]

Elberoth / Adam -

I also have a hotrodded CAPS and have been following this thread with interest. I am running the JS-2 for the USB card, and the main power. I have the JCAT USB Femto on order, and plan to power it with LPS-1 when the Femto gets here.

I was surprised to hear you are not running AO in Core mode, because that makes a HUGE difference in my system. To go with your metaphor: it's like the Nitro for the Hotrod! This makes me believe we are not behind in SQ at all!

That being said, things are changing quickly. It is my understanding that integrating Roon, Tidal et Al, isn't currently possible with AO in core mode. And while I have invested a fraction of the cost of a W20, I have a fair amount of tinkering and time in the process, which I enjoy, but the average audiophile would rather plug and play. And also there is not a recipe for the CAPS alternative, so some would never get to that level of SQ.

I will probably build another CAPS hotrod machine for one of my systems, but I will also be keeping a keen eye (and ear) to the price and performance of the new mainstream alternatives.

Randy

[joeinid]

Welcome to the forum Randy!

[Elberoth]

To give you a better idea what it takes to get to the level of Aurender W-20:











And I that does not show my NAS drive, which should also be included on the pic !

[Keith_W]

Adam, I count four PSU's powering your computer. Well, I know that the LPS-1 is powering your JCAT card because you said so. But what are all the other PSU's for? Would you be able to post a picture of the internals of your PC?

[Elberoth]

1. TeraDak is a linear ATX PSU. It powers the MoBo via the regular ATX connector. This is the hi-end alternative to regular computer SMPS ATX bricks or the commonly used Pico PSU + linear single rail PSU combos. The later, although much better than the SMPS ATX bricks, still has the noisy DC-DC converters onboard (Pico PSU uses them to generate all voltages needed by the MoBo i.e. +12V, -12V, +5V, -5V, +3.3V from the 15-19V input DC provided by a signle rail PSU). In the TeraDak linear ATX PSU, there no DC-DC converters - all voltage rails have dedicated linear regulators.

2. The UpTone Audio PSUs are used to power the Jcat Femto USB card.

The PSU arrangement for the card looks like this:

AC Mains > JS-2 PSU (230VAC to 9VDC) > UltraCap LPS-1 (9VDC to 5VDC) > Jcat Femto USB card

3. The Jcat BPS-02B battery PSU is used to power the SSD (suprisingly big gain !).

Now I started wondering, what would happen if I deployed this battery PSU to power the Aurender's SSD ...

I gave the Aurender back, but I think I'm gonna try this next time I get the N10 and W20.

[Albert]

I am curious how a Bryston BDP-2 with the upgraded card compares to an Aurender or Lumin streamer? I haven't compared it to a modded pc either so I can't comment on that comparison.

Also, do some DAC's work better or have synergy with some streamers? Software seems to be a factor as well. I find the Manic Moose software, though not as user friendly, offers better sound quality than Roon. Tidal is also not as good as red book Flac files from my external hd. It sounds less 3d with less detail. Music sounds like an fm station with Tidal which is alright for background music (not a bad thing).

[Keith_W]

Thank you, Adam. I currently have my PC powered with an Uptone JS-2. It made a huge improvement compared to the Streacom SMPS. Would you say that the Teradak is superior to the Uptone?

Is yours the "600W Type R Bovine have a fever Linear PSU" with the "400W Type R cattle" power output? http://www.teradak.com/products/106.html

If it is better than the Uptone, I will probably order one.

(edit) the wiring harness on that Bovine Have a Fever LPSU looks rather short. Would you mind posting a picture of the internals of your case please?

[bzr]

I have found with my Aria 2 that has SSD only that with the external power supply, it does make a difference for the better.

[VNladyaudiophile]

I tried SOTA parts too when I build my various music servers over the years. None of mine could beat the Aurender or Lumin U1 either.

Hi Mike, I've been learning so much from reading your posts. Thank you huge. I'd be even more thankful if you could spare few min to advise me on Aurender W20 vs Lumin S1 and Linn Klimax DSM (if you are familiar with this one as well). And thank you for being my first friend on AS here :-)

[Mike]

Hi Mike, I've been learning so much from reading your posts. Thank you huge. I'd be even more thankful if you could spare few min to advise me on Aurender W20 vs Lumin S1 and Linn Klimax DSM (if you are familiar with this one as well). And thank you for being my first friend on AS here :-)

You're very welcome. Sorry for not yet responding to your opening post. I will get to it. You are on the right track with your research. Kronos Sparta for sure. Don't go nuts on the phonostage as Kronos will have a phonostage for the Sparta by end of year, early next year. Maybe get something just to get by for now. Manley Chinook? Zesto? Something to get by.

Can't compare W20 to S1. One is a network music player and one is a streamer. Forget Linn, they are living in the stone ages. Their app sucks (most users rely on the Lumin app) and they don't do DSD, MQA or Roon.

I would do Aurender N10 with Chord DAVE or Lumin A1 (sounds like vinyl/R2R) - very analog.


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[VNladyaudiophile]

You're very welcome. Sorry for not yet responding to your opening post. I will get to it. You are on the right track with your research. Kronos Sparta for sure. Don't go nuts on the phonostage as Kronos will have a phonostage for the Sparta by end of year, early next year. Maybe get something just to get by for now. Manley Chinook? Zesto? Something to get by.

Can't compare W20 to S1. One is a network music player and one is a streamer. Forget Linn, they are living in the stone ages. Their app sucks (most users rely on the Lumin app) and they don't do DSD, MQA or Roon.

I would do Aurender N10 with Chord DAVE or Lumin A1 (sounds like vinyl/R2R) - very analog.


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Hi Mike, thank you so much for your great fast reply <3
it's great to know about the upcoming Kronos phono stage. I hold on for analog source.
Aurender N10 vs W20: you don't think I need to spend the extra for better sound quality? I already have very good DAC DSD. And, which one sounds more vinyl: Aurender vs Lumin?
Thank you thank you :-)

[Mike]

Hi Mike, thank you so much for your great fast reply <3
it's great to know about the upcoming Kronos phono stage. I hold on for analog source.
Aurender N10 vs W20: you don't think I need to spend the extra for better sound quality? And, which one sounds more vinyl: Aurender vs Lumin?
Thank you thank you :-)

W20 is only beneficial if you go for the big $100k DCS stack with dual clock inputs. N10 is what you want (for use with an external DAC) or Lumin A1 for all-in-one.

Don't delay on the Kronos Sparta. Just get a cheapie phonostage for now like the iFi Phono


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[Mike]

Lumin A1 sounds very vinyl/analog.


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[VNladyaudiophile]

Lumin A1 sounds very vinyl/analog.


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Well noted. Thank you Sir.

[Mike]

Well noted. Thank you Sir.

You're very welcome. Your system is absolutely superb!


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[VNladyaudiophile]

You're very welcome. Your system is absolutely superb!


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Thanks to all the great posts I've read from forums like AS :-) I hope to finally be able to sit back and enjoy soon <3

[VNladyaudiophile]

You're very welcome. Sorry for not yet responding to your opening post. I will get to it. You are on the right track with your research. Kronos Sparta for sure. Don't go nuts on the phonostage as Kronos will have a phonostage for the Sparta by end of year, early next year. Maybe get something just to get by for now. Manley Chinook? Zesto? Something to get by.

Can't compare W20 to S1. One is a network music player and one is a streamer. Forget Linn, they are living in the stone ages. Their app sucks (most users rely on the Lumin app) and they don't do DSD, MQA or Roon.

I would do Aurender N10 with Chord DAVE or Lumin A1 (sounds like vinyl/R2R) - very analog.


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HI Mike, since I already own a good DAC DSD by Vitus SCD-025MKII, would you recommend me to wait to demo Lumin U1? Do you think its SQ could compare to Lumin S1? Vietnam will have U1 in 1 month :-)

[joeinid]

The Lumin U1 has no dac built in, it is essentially the streamer part of the Lumins so you can easily feed the cd player via the Digital Inputs: 1 x RCA, 1 x XLR, 1 x USB and have the Vitus act as the dac and the Lumin U1 will give you all the streaming qualities of the line. To me, that makes perfect sense and uses your existing cd player without being redundant.

I think Mike will agree.

HI Mike, since I already own a good DAC DSD by Vitus SCD-025MKII, would you recommend me to wait to demo Lumin U1? Do you think its SQ could compare to Lumin S1? Vietnam will have U1 in 1 month :-)

[audio.bill]

HI Mike, since I already own a good DAC DSD by Vitus SCD-025MKII, would you recommend me to wait to demo Lumin U1? Do you think its SQ could compare to Lumin S1? Vietnam will have U1 in 1 month :-)

Hi Chau, and a belated warm welcome to AudioShark! I wouldn't speak for Mike but I'd strongly encourage you to check out either the Lumin U1 or Aurender N10 to use as a server with your fine Vitus DAC. They are both of excellent quality and have very well designed control apps to efficiently access your digital music library.

[VNladyaudiophile]

The Lumin U1 has no dac built in, it is essentially the streamer part of the Lumins so you can easily feed the cd player via the Digital Inputs: 1 x RCA, 1 x XLR, 1 x USB and have the Vitus act as the dac and the Lumin U1 will give you all the streaming qualities of the line. To me, that makes perfect sense and uses your existing cd player without being redundant.

I think Mike will agree.

Dear Joe, Thank you very much for your input. Have I read somewhere that your eyes were on Lumin U1, too? Or I read too much my brain is cooked? :-))

[joeinid]

I have a Lumin U1, but honestly have not hooked it up yet. Now that I have the QX5 Twenty, it is an easier way to use my QX5. I need to play with it and let you know how it is. I already love the Lumin interface.

Mike has recommended an Aurender (N10?) to me because it is already certified to play MQA titles (which I desperately want), has built in storage and I can continue to use my QX5 with it and switch between the dacs at will. I like the Aurender idea, but that would duplicate dacs for me and be an expense above and beyond what I already have. At least the Lumin U1 would just feed my current dac.

So much gear, so little time.

Dear Joe, Thank you very much for your input. Have I read somewhere that your eyes were on Lumin U1, too? Or I read too much my brain is cooked? :-))

[VNladyaudiophile]

I have a Lumin U1, but honestly have not hooked it up yet. Now that I have the QX5 Twenty, it is an easier way to use my QX5. I need to play with it and let you know how it is. I already love the Lumin interface.

Mike has recommended an Aurender (N10?) to me because it is already certified to play MQA titles (which I desperately want), has built in storage and I can continue to use my QX5 with it and switch between the dacs at will. I like the Aurender idea, but that would duplicate dacs for me and be an expense above and beyond what I already have. At least the Lumin U1 would just feed my current dac.

So much gear, so little time.

Thank you Joe. So unfair Jay Z doesn't let Tidal work in VN yet :-(
I will do auditions again with N10 and tmrw with S1. You're right: too much gear, too little time :-)

[joeinid]

I agree. My only gripe with Tidal is, in my opinion, too much focus on rap/hip-hop. At least there's a lot of other music there too.

Thank you Joe. So unfair Jay Z doesn't let Tidal work in VN yet :-(
I will do auditions again with N10 and tmrw with S1. You're right: too much gear, too little time :-)

[VNladyaudiophile]

Hi Chau, and a belated warm welcome to AudioShark! I wouldn't speak for Mike but I'd strongly encourage you to check out either the Lumin U1 or Aurender N10 to use as a server with your fine Vitus DAC. They are both of excellent quality and have very well designed control apps to efficiently access your digital music library.

Dear Audio.bill, thank you very much for the recommendation and warm welcome :-)
I am awaiting for try out the U1. I have tried N10 but the setup the dealer had done was so bad that I quit after 5 songs. In Vietnam the Aurender's dealer should be changed. I hope the Aurender guys are here to listen to customers.

Lumin dealer in VN is very good so high chance I go with Lumin just for the full support I receive and ease to work with.
Audioshark and their members are great! So helpful! Thank you ALL.

[Jack]

Chau

If I were in your position I would look at the U-1 as the best option unless you are willing to wait until the Fall to see what the Auralic Aries G2 has to offer. In addition to the U-1 being a great digital transport by all reports you have access to Peter and Mike to help you along the way. While the Aurender may be a contender in reality if you can't get a reasonable audition and service I would move on.

[VNladyaudiophile]

Chau

If I were in your position I would look at the U-1 as the best option unless you are willing to wait until the Fall to see what the Auralic Aries G2 has to offer. In addition to the U-1 being a great digital transport by all reports you have access to Peter and Mike to help you along the way. While the Aurender may be a contender in reality if you can't get a reasonable audition and service I would move on.

Dear Jack, thank you very much for strengthening my preference for U1. As for Auralic we don't have dealer yet in Vietnam so I can't have chance with it. Cheers.

[VNladyaudiophile]

I agree. My only gripe with Tidal is, in my opinion, too much focus on rap/hip-hop. At least there's a lot of other music there too.

I just got Tidal Hifi ha ha :-) sharing with my daughter living in USA. It's so good <3 So far it has all the piano pieces that I love <3 <3 <3 Have a lovely Sunday.

[bmichels]

The W20 is 5 years old, which is... very old by digital standards ! are there any rumors about a successor to the W20 ?

[Elberoth]

I have heard them before Munich from Aurender dealer ... but nothing materialised so far.

[Projectman]

I tried the Aurender N10 and compared to the Lumin U1, well lets just say the N10 is gone and the U1 found a home

[bmichels]

Interesting.... could you please elaborate why you choosed LUMIN ?

Is it only based on sound quality or also on the LUMIN software interface that you prefered to the Aurender’s conductor App ?