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Thread: Jim Smith @ My House
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November 16, 2016, 02:35 PM #51
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November 16, 2016, 04:13 PM #52
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Re: Jim Smith @ My House
Really appreciate the info in your thorough posts here Jim. Very helpful.
Many thanks.
Chris
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November 16, 2016, 09:55 PM #53
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
One of my favorite topics! I just purchased your book/dvd (have been meaning to for awhile). One thing that has me confused is the anchoring. Isn't the listening position dependent on speaker placement and not vice versa? I don't understand how its possible to not move the speakers around to find the best 25-250 Hz region. IOW, I'm reading it as just place your speakers "somewhere" and move the listening potion around until you find the smoothest 25-250 Hz region. I'm oversimplifying it but..
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the logic, but I have always placed the speakers based on room dims/room modes and so far the 1/3 rule has by far without question been the sweet spot, to which the listening position is based from and toe in (using laser) is to the midpoint of the back wall.
Hopefully the Anchoring will make more sense when the Get Better Sound material arrives.
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November 16, 2016, 10:50 PM #54mauidanGuest
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
I have Mr.Smith's DVD, and it's an excellent source of listening room set up information.
If I was able to have someone "voice" my system, it would be Peter McGrath.
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November 17, 2016, 01:45 PM #55
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
www.getbettersound.com
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November 17, 2016, 02:21 PM #56
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
No.
I never said somewhere.
Place the speakers in the general area you expect to use them.
Find out where in the room to sit without suffering from unpleasant and musical-engagement-killing room-boundary effects at the listening seat.
In this case, its the room, not the speaker.
Quite common, though, in my experience - having successfully voiced many hundreds of systems - it never works.
I've always said that the only time a spread sheet can work in a room is when the only thing in the room is the spread sheet...
Umm, see the first line in the list below.
From a RMAF Seminar & later, Copper magazine #12:
The ACK Attack & Uncommon Knowledge
By Jim Smith
In English-speaking circles, the term “common knowledge” refers to a thing that everyone knows, or at least, should have known when searching for the cause of some wretched decision. As in, “I cannot imagine why she ran away with that poor excuse for a man. It’s common knowledge that he is a drunken lout!”
In audiophile-speaking circles, it’s a different thing altogether. I’ve always called the phenomenon “Audiophile Common Knowledge.” It’s the same stuff we’ve heard for years and years.
Although they may be without any basis, or the basis for their truth requires a number of unlikely concepts to line-up, these myths have become almost legendary. For the purposes of this discussion, instead of Audiophile Common Knowledge, let’s use the acronym ACK.
The Problem
The problem with ACK is that it prevents many audiophiles from attaining what is rightfully theirs. That’s because ACK keeps audiophiles from taking the basic steps that can dramatically improve their systems.
Some of the biggest sources of ACK are the various Internet audio forums/message boards. OK, maybe not the forums, but the inhabitants thereof.
By the way, it’s not those who ask legitimate questions that concern me. Although I’m still not sure why anyone would take the advice of a complete stranger on the Internet. Especially when said advice is – all too often – completely wrong, or at least, improperly presented as the first avenue of action.
Surely, ACK that is delivered with such self-assured righteousness must be true! But is it the ACKtual truth?
Self-styled experts
It’s the self-styled experts that are worrisome. They indiscriminately dispense a load of ACK, as if they actually know something. It must be said that sometimes there are pearls of wisdom to be found. But all too often, the pearls are hidden in a pile of ACK.
In their defense, they’ve heard these ACK myths for so long that they (1) believe them to be fact, and (2) they actually believe they are dispensing good advice.
Honestly speaking, I didn’t realize how pervasive – or damaging – ACK really was until I spoke to an audiophile group/society last year. I had prepared an interesting presentation. But I never got to make it, because ACK comments kept coming up.
The time flew by as cherished audiophile “facts” were challenged. Much to my surprise, debunking these myths produced a lively interactive meeting. The debate was fun! Most importantly, a few days later, I received numerous positive comments from various club members, as they tried out my Uncommon Knowledge suggestions.
A similar thing happened at a Seminar on System Optimization that I conducted recently. Veteran audiophiles just didn’t want the discussion to end, once they found out that many of their cherished beliefs had been hindering their sound. And they heard a few simple Tips to improve their systems that they hadn’t previously considered, because they didn’t line up with ACK.
ACK Responsible
In my experience, ACK may be responsible for doing more harm than good. Here – in no particular order – are some ACK favorites – myths that have developed into Audiophile Common Knowledge:
- The “rule of thirds” is a great set-up guide.
- Cathedral ceilings provide great sound.
- A wide sweet spot is best for great sound.
- Full range speakers don’t need or work with subwoofers.
- Bass is non-directional, so exact woofer placement and orientation isn’t critical.
- Bass is non-directional, so only one sub is required.
- The best speaker drivers must be low-mass.
- A “fast” bass driver is superior to others.
- The best sounding systems are dead quiet.
- Granite makes a great isolation material.
- Cones & spikes provide isolation.
- Wide dispersion is desirable for consumer audio loudspeakers.
- An equilateral triangle (speakers and listening seat) set-up yields great sound.
- The best bi-amplification is done with transistors on bass, tubes on top.
- Achieving the tightest bass should be your goal.
- Speaker set-up diagrams/guides from various manufacturers will provide the best sound.
- There are several known “good” listening room sizes/dimensions.
- Building a new listening room with a good spread-sheet program will provide great sound.
- If you’re past 50, you can no longer hear well enough to really care about your sound quality.
- And others, equally as revered, and equally as questionable (once you know the facts).
DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
www.getbettersound.com
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November 17, 2016, 02:22 PM #57
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November 17, 2016, 02:24 PM #58
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
www.getbettersound.com
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November 17, 2016, 02:28 PM #59
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November 17, 2016, 02:57 PM #60
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
www.getbettersound.com
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November 17, 2016, 03:20 PM #61
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November 17, 2016, 03:29 PM #62
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
I want to thank Jim for giving us insight to his process!
I also want everyone to know that the end result, in my case at least, was more dramatic than a component upgrade. Considering the investment, it was, as Mike said, the best money I've ever spent in audio.
Jim hasn't mentioned that the best tool on his arsenal are his ears! While he employs tools to guide some of the steps, the actual voicing is done by ear. He knows exactly what each of his test tracks is telling him, and makes changes to speaker position until these things sound correct.
The end result was a system that has more realism,greater depth,and improved clarity.
But the best thing to me is that I feel more engaged in the music, and really isn't that what we're all trying to achieve?
All this for less money than a good pair of cables.Mark
Kharma DB9 Signature
Pass Labs XP32......incoming
Pass Labs X350.8
Esoteric N-05XD
VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
Manley Chinook Phono Pre
Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
Kharma Elegance speaker cables
Kharma Elegance interconnects
REL Subs
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November 17, 2016, 07:48 PM #63
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Re: Jim Smith @ My House
This thread has prompted me to pull out my copy of your book and read it again.
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November 17, 2016, 11:21 PM #64
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November 18, 2016, 08:04 AM #65
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
Thanks for the response, I'm looking forward to the better sound material arriving next week! The timing is quite good since I just moved (ick) and am having to start over in my listening room.
Its bigger a space, and spent considerable time dialing in my last room and am very anxious to get the new space dialed in as well.
Understood, thanks. I really was just inferring the use of "calculators" as a starting point that's all. Certainly it goes way beyond that.
Interesting enough, being I am starting over in a new space, there are several options/orientations I could use and it seems that many of the normal spkr placement options I see being used put the LP in the center of the room and having tried the 1/3 rule, it seems to get me (LP) out of that area, which of course is usually the worst spot for your LP to reside. Again just my experience and certainly not implying that as a hard and fast rule.
I really enjoy learning about this process as I find it fascinating. Seeing as the room and placement plays such a critical role, its usually the most overlooked/underestimated.
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November 18, 2016, 11:23 AM #66
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
www.getbettersound.com
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November 18, 2016, 11:27 AM #67
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November 18, 2016, 02:36 PM #68mauidanGuest
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November 18, 2016, 06:54 PM #69
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
Mark
Kharma DB9 Signature
Pass Labs XP32......incoming
Pass Labs X350.8
Esoteric N-05XD
VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
Manley Chinook Phono Pre
Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
Kharma Elegance speaker cables
Kharma Elegance interconnects
REL Subs
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November 18, 2016, 07:32 PM #70mauidanGuest
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November 25, 2016, 10:32 PM #71
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December 30, 2016, 09:09 AM #72
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
My wife and I spent a couple of days visiting with Mark and Susan earlier this week. This was our second annual holiday visit. As before, our very good friends were fantastic hosts.
I finally had the opportunity to listen to Mark's system after he added the REL Subs, Cadenza Black cartridge and his system was finely tuned by Jim Smith. I've heard this system before and was always impressed. However, the musical experience I enjoyed earlier this week was nothing short of wonderful.
Mark has managed to assemble a terrific system. Jim's technical approach along with his good ears and some of his magic have made a significant positive difference in how this system sounds. I've never heard the Salon 2s sound this good! And, by the way, I owned a pair!
Thanks to Mark and Susan for a wonderful couple of days!Last edited by Ritmo; December 30, 2016 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Typo
_______________
Mike
Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
Subwoofers: REL Carbon Specials
Conditioner: Shunyata Triton 3
Power Cables: Shunyata Sigma 1 & 2, Alpha 2, Delta and Venom
ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
Rack: Artesania Exoteryc
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December 30, 2016, 09:53 AM #73
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
Thanks Mike!
We always enjoy it when you and Carmen come visit! Music,drinks,food and great company are some of life's greatest pleasures.
Regarding the sound of my system, I will say again that the improvements that Jim brought out are indeed significant! It's better than a component change. In the past when I would buy a new component I would eventually get used to the change in sound. What Jim has given me is a sound that I'm still amazed with. I'm enjoying my system more than ever and I am still not used to the improvements. I find now that the only purchases I'm considering are new music.
It's great place to beMark
Kharma DB9 Signature
Pass Labs XP32......incoming
Pass Labs X350.8
Esoteric N-05XD
VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
Manley Chinook Phono Pre
Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
Kharma Elegance speaker cables
Kharma Elegance interconnects
REL Subs
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August 16, 2017, 08:58 PM #74
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
Tidal/Roon>exaSound Playpoint>exaSound e22>Marchand XM44>Nord OneUp NC500 x2>Magneplaner 3.6r: Wireworld digital, Audio Zen Silver reference II XLR, Audio Zen Satori speaker cables, Transparent Plus & Audio Sensibility Statement XLR's, Transparent Plus speaker cables, Audio Sensibility Testament power cords, Solid Tech reference rack, Feet of silence, Mye Stands, Plixir BDC linear power supply, RCPC Pro 400, Audio Magic Stealth power conditioner, Hubbell outlets & dedicated lines, DIY RPG and N11 Quadratic diffusors and Primacoustic absorption panels
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August 17, 2017, 01:22 PM #75
Re: Jim Smith @ My House
IMO - No reason to do so when a component is changed - the system/room voicing is about the acoustic wave-launch into the room.
Sometimes a speaker change might benefit from re-voicing, but the owner learns so much during the session that he or she can usually make the change using what they learned.
However, a different room is a different story...DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
www.getbettersound.com
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August 18, 2017, 06:18 PM #76
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AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
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Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
I'm suffering issues with getting 1 boulder amp to talk to another boulder amp. I will agreed sound is pretty good.
Boulder 866 app