Ayre KX-5 Twenty and VX-5 Twenty

[Mike]

Liquidity liquid sound!


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[joeinid]

Damn, never should have parted with the KX5-20. Congrats Mike!

['cisco]

Wow Mike....that looks like a sweet combo. Can you reveal the price of those two? Any pic of the remote?

If I ever sell my stuff...I could be interested in that combo.

[Mike]

Wow Mike....that looks like a sweet combo. Can you reveal the price of those two? Any pic of the remote?

If I ever sell my stuff...I could be interested in that combo.

Thanks. They are:

KX-5 Twenty - $8950
VX-5 Twenty - $8950

[BruceLet]

Congratulations Mike. I love that combo. Great quality at a reasonable price.

[Mike]

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[La Dolce Vita]

Liquidity liquid sound!


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Mike...welcome to the club! The VX-5 Twenty is really distinctive offering such a smooth sound. It'll grow on you...
But where is the new DAC? Really eager to hear your impressions.

['cisco]

Thanks. They are:

KX-5 Twenty - $8950
VX-5 Twenty - $8950

Thanks Mike and Thank you for the pic of the remote!

[Mike]

Thanks Mike and Thank you for the pic of the remote!

You have to hear this combo. So liquid sounding. Oozes musicality and the bass! Wow. It does not sound like SS at all. There are zero transistor artifacts in the sound. Incredible with my Magico M3's.

[nicoludio]

You have to hear this combo. So liquid sounding. Oozes musicality and the bass! Wow. It does not sound like SS at all. There are zero transistor artifacts in the sound. Incredible with my Magico M3's.

That is an atypical combination. The KX-R/20 and MX-R/20 must be something else if the 5 series are this good.

[joeinid]

That is an atypical combination. The KX-R/20 and MX-R/20 must be something else if the 5 series are this good.

[Devg]

Mike, how would you compare them to the PS Audio stack ?

[Mike]

Mike, how would you compare them to the PS Audio stack ?

Depends on the speakers, depends on power requirements, depends on whether you want a stereo amp or monos, etc. But both are wonderful. If you're ok with a Stereo amp and slightly less power, I would try the Ayre. If you need more dynamic headroom and you want some tube goodness in the system, I would give the big PS Audio amps a try and rolling tubes in the PS Audio amps makes a big difference. As good as the PS Audio preamp is, the Ayre is very special. Ayre makes excellent SS Preamps.

(That's my politically correct answer and I'm sticking to it. )

['cisco]

You have to hear this combo. So liquid sounding. Oozes musicality and the bass! Wow. It does not sound like SS at all. There are zero transistor artifacts in the sound. Incredible with my Magico M3's.

Mike.....I'm gonna have to stay away from this thread.

[enatai252]

I use the KX5 20/VX5 20 combo with dCS Rossini DAC/ clock and WA Alidas in my study. Highly recommended.

My my main system steps up to KXR 20/MXR 20 with dCS Vivaldi 2.0 and WA Alexia.

I am am interested in hearing the QX5 to be used to replace a Naim NDS in my cabin system...although curious if a R version is forthcoming

interesting that the remote in the picture is different than mine. I have the larger remote that comes also with KXR....new remote seems more similarly styled with the QX5 remote

as a long time tube lover (cabin system is ARC ref 40/ref 150), the Ayre preamps/amps are part of a small set of SS options that seem to keep the air and palpability I love about tubes while adding a firm control of bottom end. For awhile I had a ARC Ref 250s and the MXRs in main system switching between the two. Found over time I was using a MXRs more, especially after I upgraded to the 20s. Ref 250s eventually were sold

[Mike]

I use the KX5 20/VX5 20 combo with dCS Rossini DAC/ clock and WA Alidas in my study. Highly recommended.

My my main system steps up to KXR 20/MXR 20 with dCS Vivaldi 2.0 and WA Alexia.

I am am interested in hearing the QX5 to be used to replace a Naim NDS in my cabin system...although curious if a R version is forthcoming

interesting that the remote in the picture is different than mine. I have the larger remote that comes also with KXR....new remote seems more similarly styled with the QX5 remote

as a long time tube lover (cabin system is ARC ref 40/ref 150), the Ayre preamps/amps are part of a small set of SS options that seem to keep the air and palpability I love about tubes while adding a firm control of bottom end. For awhile I had a ARC Ref 250s and the MXRs in main system switching between the two. Found over time I was using a MXRs more, especially after I upgraded to the 20s. Ref 250s eventually were sold

Well said. Good description of Ayre sounds. I have the QX5 on order.


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[Devg]

Depends on the speakers, depends on power requirements, depends on whether you want a stereo amp or monos, etc. But both are wonderful. If you're ok with a Stereo amp and slightly less power, I would try the Ayre. If you need more dynamic headroom and you want some tube goodness in the system, I would give the big PS Audio amps a try and rolling tubes in the PS Audio amps makes a big difference. As good as the PS Audio preamp is, the Ayre is very special. Ayre makes excellent SS Preamps.

(That's my politically correct answer and I'm sticking to it. )

Thanks Mike. I expect no less quality for any products from Ayre. It seems like KX-5 20/VX-5 20 is indeed a very especial combo.

[Mike]

I'm at about 100 hours on this pairing. If there's a better combo under $20k, tube or SS, I haven't heard it. People always ask about Solid state amps that have tube like qualities and are as engaging as some of the best tube amps. This combo gets you there.


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[wklie]

I'm at about 100 hours on this pairing. If there's a better combo under $20k, tube or SS, I haven't heard it. People always ask about Solid state amps that have tube like qualities and are as engaging as some of the best tube amps. This combo gets you there.

Sounds awesome. Perhaps I should try to convince my boss to upgrade our test/demo setup.

I came across a technical explanation of why it sounds good, direct from the designer:
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mp...&m=185887&VT=T

[KeithR]

Really glad to hear the Twenty Series is a revelation. Seems Charley got it right!

[Mike]

Ayre and Magico = incredible synergy. Incredible.


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[bzr]

Ayre and Magico = incredible synergy. Incredible.


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Better than Vitus?

[Mike]

Better than Vitus?

Different flavor.


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[La Dolce Vita]

Ayre and Magico = incredible synergy. Incredible.


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Not surprised! Magico has a generally nice sound and the Ayre components are lush and rich - so smooth and harmonic


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[bzr]

Different flavor.


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[Slapshot]

Mike, after everything I've read, and heard, it's clear that the KX-5 Twenty, and the Twenty series, in general, is simply superb equipment. Most of the reviews and commentary seem to focus on the amazing synergy of the KX-5 Twenty, and the VX-5 Twenty, used together. Such remarkable synergy of fine components like these, especially from the same series and a manufacturer like Ayre is not a surprise.

Have you had any opportunity to gauge how well the KX-5 performs with non-Ayre power amplification components? After hearing such great input regarding it, it's one of the short list of preamps I'm considering to partner with my VAC Signature 200iQ, which I know you have great familiarity with. Others under consideration are the older VAC Renaissance Signature MK.II, the VAC Signature IIa,and the McIntosh C500T. Thanks for any input on your experiences involving the KX-5 Twenty with non-Ayre amplifiers.

JC

[Mike]

Mike, after everything I've read, and heard, it's clear that the KX-5 Twenty, and the Twenty series, in general, is simply superb equipment. Most of the reviews and commentary seem to focus on the amazing synergy of the KX-5 Twenty, and the VX-5 Twenty, used together. Such remarkable synergy of fine components like these, especially from the same series and a manufacturer like Ayre is not a surprise.

Have you had any opportunity to gauge how well the KX-5 performs with non-Ayre power amplification components? After hearing such great input regarding it, it's one of the short list of preamps I'm considering to partner with my VAC Signature 200iQ, which I know you have great familiarity with. Others under consideration are the older VAC Renaissance Signature MK.II, the VAC Signature IIa,and the McIntosh C500T. Thanks for any input on your experiences involving the KX-5 Twenty with non-Ayre amplifiers.

JC

JC - I've tried the Ayre preamp with the VAC Signature 200iQ monos, Pass X350.8, Lampizator 211's and even a customers McIntosh 302. It's a terrific preamp, and is so good, it definitely makes people fall in love with the Ayre sound.

But if you're looking for synergy, the VAC Renaissance V preamp is the ticket. It has a tremendous synergy with the VAC 200iQ amps and voiced very similar with that gorgeous VAC house sound. The new Renaissance V is the same price as the Ayre preamp FWIW.

Mike

[Slapshot]

Thanks for your valued input Mike!

JC

[JayNudel]

My KX-5 Twenty is due to arrive hopefully next week. Can't wait!

[Kuoppis]

My KX-5 Twenty is due to arrive hopefully next week. Can't wait!

Excellent, please share how you like it.


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[JayNudel]

For sure!!!! I may not even get it set up next week as I have an overseas trip on the boards... but you can bet I'll report on it ASAP! I did audition it at Audio Connection NJ with my current speakers (Vandersteen treos) playing into - believe it or not - a Rotel power amp. Pretty sure I am not gonna be disappointed.

[JayNudel]

Hey folks, a question for the floor: I haven't yet fired up my new KX-5 Twenty as it arrived just before I had to fly overseas, but I did decant it and set it on my Salamander rack. One little issue that kinda popped up is that they use hard feet which are mighty slippery on the surface of the Salamander shelves. Slippery enough so that I think I need to batten it down a little. Anyone changed the feet on these or used any kind additional isolation products? I can try the myrtle blocks but I am not entirely sure they'd get me much more traction.

[nile49]

Hey folks, a question for the floor: I haven't yet fired up my new KX-5 Twenty as it arrived just before I had to fly overseas, but I did decant it and set it on my Salamander rack. One little issue that kinda popped up is that they use hard feet which are mighty slippery on the surface of the Salamander shelves. Slippery enough so that I think I need to batten it down a little. Anyone changed the feet on these or used any kind additional isolation products? I can try the myrtle blocks but I am not entirely sure they'd get me much more traction.

If you just want it to stay put I would get some of this liner under each foot. I have a roll of the stuff for use under floor mats and use the leftover for all kinds of stuff.




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[JayNudel]

You know, I actually thought of that - wife uses it to line the kitchen cabinet shelves. Yeah, it would do the trick. or I can just stick non-slip thingies on the bottom of the feet; I guess tho that I was sort of wondering if anyone has found that particular isolation devices are good with this unit and would also solve the ice-skating problem. Having just coughed up the $$ for the preamp itself I don't wanna go hogwild but would consider something like maybe the new Isoacoustics Oreas or a similar product. Or even just vibrapods or whatever.

[Mrppv]

My shelves aren't very slippery (shellacked birch ply) but I have my KX-5 Twenty on Mad Scientist "Blackpod" footers, which actually makes the preamp more slide-y because it's now resting on little spheres.
Honestly not sure how much difference it makes sonically. Picture is from Mad Scientist's site... no affiliation.

[Kuoppis]

I use Stillpoints under mine and have the footers blue-tagged to the preamp. That does not resolve the slippery element altogether, but it works well enough for me.


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[JayNudel]

Have heard stillpoints and am thinking of a set for my TT but yeah, not sure they'd be the right choice for this, at least not without something on the bottom, which might mess things up. Am actually thinking of trying Acoustifeet - cheap, the right size, and would affix themselves to the bottom of Ayre's feet. These are basically just jiggly silicone stick-ons designed to keep vibrations from computers from being transmitted to shelves, but I have a set on my music server and they seem to be good. I'm only out $5 plus shipping if I don't like them. BTW what power cords are people using with the Ayre Pre's? I have various Shunyatas and a Cardas, am forgetting which model now, but it's blue. Figure I'll do some experimenting.

[JayNudel]

Connecting it up right now... have to do a lot today but I expect to have it fired up late tonight or tomorrow. BTW somewhat contrary to Art Dudley's assessment, I didn't find the configuration interface to be that bad; yeah, you'll want to have the manual in your hand to give inputs custom names and set gain levels and stuff, but I didn't have any trouble following the manual's instructions and getting it done.

[JayNudel]

OK burning in now on some Robert Plant and Allison Kraus...stay tuned for my initial thoughts! BTW For now I just stuck some of the correct-durometer Acoustifeet on it.

[joeinid]

Excellent, congratulations! Keep the updates coming.

[Mr Peabody]

I was reading a review on the 520 preamp, the guy was really critical of the set up process.

When you say the combo is tube like, in what way? Someone also said lush. I gravitated from Pass due to it's polite delivery and rounded edges. If I could have two systems I love CJ. I need something that will play a double kick drum with authority yet allow me to enjoy the melody in other genres. Does this exist? I'm really really hoping to hear some Ayre at Axpona.

[joeinid]

I absolutely love CJ for tube gear.

I was reading a review on the 520 preamp, the guy was really critical of the set up process.

When you say the combo is tube like, in what way? Someone also said lush. I gravitated from Pass due to it's polite delivery and rounded edges. If I could have two systems I love CJ. I need something that will play a double kick drum with authority yet allow me to enjoy the melody in other genres. Does this exist? I'm really really hoping to hear some Ayre at Axpona.

[JayNudel]

Mr. Peabody,

That was the Art Dudley review in Stereophile. I have been a big fan of Art ever since his Listener days... definitely an extremely perceptive reviewer and an absolutely wonderful writer. I think he was right in some ways in this case but too harsh in others. Where he was right: They (Ayre) do pick somewhat odd ways to indicate when the system is muted (two dots surrounding the volume level number) and when the system is in sleep (green light on the button) and when the fixed-level outputs are on (red light on the other button.) This is not a big deal but I would not have made those design decisions, and I would have labelled the knobs and buttons. As far as the setup is concerned, one has to remember that we're talking about entering letters and numbers with two knobs and two buttons, no keypad. Given that, I did not find it to be an overly difficult process; as I said, you wouldn't figure it out without having the manual in front of you, but then you wouldn't need to. Setting up a bunch of custom input names and gain levels took me maybe 15 minutes at most. Not a big deal. Overall? Yeah, there are a few elements here that are a little quirky but if one is considering this product I don't at all think they should be concerned about the complexity of the setup procedure. For me, being able to set those gain levels and custom names for inputs was an important selling point, so I appreciate that they included these features, which many don't.

[JayNudel]

But: app or browser-based control would be great to have, both for setup and so the spousal unit can change inputs from upstairs.

[JayNudel]

So under the heading of "There's always gotta be a small snag somewhere" it turns out that the Hegel and Ayre remotes use the same codes. Which is a bit of a pain in the butt b/c when i use it to change inputs on the Ayre it changes the input on the Hegel. I rarely do that anyway, and can just block the sensor on the Hegel. But something to be aware of if anybody else wants to try the same setup.

[Mr Peabody]

LOL, I have that issue with my XP10 and Marantz processor. I use an XLR input for my bypass, unfortunately, Pass only provided one single input for unity gain. So the input I use is subject to the volume control. So it's always interesting to see where the Pass volume ends up when I run auto set up.

So under the heading of "There's always gotta be a small snag somewhere" it turns out that the Hegel and Ayre remotes use the same codes. Which is a bit of a pain in the butt b/c when i use it to change inputs on the Ayre it changes the input on the Hegel. I rarely do that anyway, and can just block the sensor on the Hegel. But something to be aware of if anybody else wants to try the same setup.

[JayNudel]

I ended up taping a piece of black construction paper to the inside of my Salamander rack door, which blocks the IR from getting to the Hegel amp - problem effectively solved. Looks like I could pop the case off the Hegel and block it from inside too but honestly it's not worth the trouble. Anyway: I have maybe 25-30 hours on the Ayre now. Fully agree with Mike's observation - it is very liquid and even tubelike (I have owned a Sonic Frontiers Line 2; the Ayre may be in some ways more tubey than the SF, though not at all in any kind of euphonic or flabby way.) I had over a close friend who is very familiar with my former system setup and I would also say has better ears than I do. We both agreed that the Hegel integrated is an absolutely killer piece for the price they sell it for; I'd say it does sound a tad drier and maybe a bit less warm than the Ayre when the Ayre replaces it's preamp section. But it remains a phenomenal buy and in no way embarrassed. I greatly appreciate the Ayre's six analog inputs (I am old-school - I want lots of analog inputs, not an internal DAC) and generally much greater degree of configurability. (As I mentioned above, I did not find doing the custom configurations to be particularly difficult.) It does not have a balance control, which I don't seem to need but is the kind of thing that you gotta have when you have weird room acoustics sometimes. And as always I would have appreciated a real monitor loop, but the 6 inputs makes up for that.

[JayNudel]

Hey people... don't ask why I am asking, at least not just yet, but as an entirely hypothetical question: Can anyone weigh in on sonic differences between the KX-5 Twenty/VX-5 Twenty combo and the AX-5 integrated? Would be driving Vandersteen Quatros, which I am pretty certain will be my next upgrade from my current Treos, and in a pretty large room, though I don't go super-crazy with volume levels. Am extremely happy with my KX-5. Spoke to Brent at Ayre who told me that they can include the filter for the Quatros into the AX-5 but they don't offer it for the VX-5; that kinda got me thinking (OK I know I told you not to ask why I'm asking but...) that if all else is pretty near equal, I may want to avoid those external filters with having to change the batteries every 7-10 years. Yeah, I know it's only once every 7-10 years and far from a big deal but I sorta have my reasons. So just putting the question out there.... TIA!

[joeinid]

If you can do with a little less power, I think the AX5-20 will be great. I know for me, the loss in power isn’t an issue. I think overall sound will be extremely close if undetectable.

[Mike]

Hey people... don't ask why I am asking, at least not just yet, but as an entirely hypothetical question: Can anyone weigh in on sonic differences between the KX-5 Twenty/VX-5 Twenty combo and the AX-5 integrated? Would be driving Vandersteen Quatros, which I am pretty certain will be my next upgrade from my current Treos, and in a pretty large room, though I don't go super-crazy with volume levels. Am extremely happy with my KX-5. Spoke to Brent at Ayre who told me that they can include the filter for the Quatros into the AX-5 but they don't offer it for the VX-5; that kinda got me thinking (OK I know I told you not to ask why I'm asking but...) that if all else is pretty near equal, I may want to avoid those external filters with having to change the batteries every 7-10 years. Yeah, I know it's only once every 7-10 years and far from a big deal but I sorta have my reasons. So just putting the question out there.... TIA!

Hey Jay - how big is your room? If you don't need the extra power, the AX-5 20 is a good way to go.

Mike