Atlantic DAC - Incoming

[still-one]

That's fine there are many of us who care for the sonics alone. And that is a personal choice. But then no need to take the thread downhill by going on a tube dac thread and suggesting points to diss it in a generic fashion. Normally, we would not go on a Wilson Alexx/Sabrina thread to say how the robotic looks and the crossovers cause us a problem. Sure, if you compared the Atlantis to a SS dac and liked the latter, feel free to add.

I guess you misunderstood my initial response to your post #39. My response just mimicked the last line of your post. I then agreed with Wisnon's post that it was all a matter of taste (or opinion.). It was your post #45 that pissed me off. Seems, as if you actually believe that their is a "best" in this hobby that is right for all.

There are many reasons why we own the individual pieces of gear we do. I have never tried to steer anyone to my choices.

[still-one]

Have you ever heard a Level 7 Lampi Dac? If not, then its hard to converse with you. It not about sounding tube at all...

i have only heard the Lampi at last years RMAF. I could not separate the individual DAC from the rest of the unfamiliar gear in the room.

[bonzo]

I guess you misunderstood my initial response to your post #39. My response just mimicked the last line of your post. I then agreed with Wisnon's post that it was all a matter of taste (or opinion.). It was your post #45 that pissed me off. Seems, as if you actually believe that their is a "best" in this hobby that is right for all.

There are many reasons why we own the individual pieces of gear we do. I have never tried to steer anyone to my choices.

My post followed getting pissed off on your previous two. Either we are misunderstanding or miscommunicating. Anyway let's drop it.

[jadedavid]

OK, to recap, some sharks like their gear to look good and some don't care how it looks. Both camps however want it to sound good. Glad we've got that cleared up.
NOW, where are all the Atlantic DAC's???? Are they stuck in the Atlantic? Really would like to hear some fellow sharks impressions. Especially from those with experience of 7's and GG's.

[Mike]

OK, to recap, some sharks like their gear to look good and some don't care how it looks. Both camps however want it to sound good. Glad we've got that cleared up.
NOW, where are all the Atlantic DAC's???? Are they stuck in the Atlantic? Really would like to hear some fellow sharks impressions. Especially from those with experience of 7's and GG's.

Good things come to those who wait.

[wisnon]

OK, to recap, some sharks like their gear to look good and some don't care how it looks. Both camps however want it to sound good. Glad we've got that cleared up.
NOW, where are all the Atlantic DAC's???? Are they stuck in the Atlantic? Really would like to hear some fellow sharks impressions. Especially from those with experience of 7's and GG's.

In the meantime...there are some first impressions over at Audiocircle.

[Gopher]

My thoughts exactly. I miss that wonderful Lampizator sound. When you get your demo, I'd like to come over with Bruce and have a listen. I can easily see one in my future.

Cool, man. I'll be happy to have you guys over.

Hopefully I'll be up and running with an Atlantic in the next couple weeks.

[jadedavid]

So Mike, are you saying that if I wait, an Atlantic will come to me? Cool.
Patiently waiting.

[Mike]

So Mike, are you saying that if I wait, an Atlantic will come to me? Cool.
Patiently waiting.

Yes!

LOL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Greg F]

Mike, I just joined so I could get my Atlantic Dac too...

I'm waiting even more patiently for mine. dum de dum de dum LOL.

[joeinid]

Welcome to the forum Greg! Thank you for joining. Congrats on the Lampi.

[Greg F]

Thank you for the warm welcome Joe, thought I should start looking around the web and found some familiar people here. I've also not met someone in recent times as generous as Mike.

A question for Winson, one of the reasons I bought my Metrum Octave R2R NOS dac several years ago was what you had to say about it at the time. Since then I have decided that it doesn't have the depth or tone that I'm looking for and was wondering if you could give me some comparisons to the the Lampi line up. I of course realize the difference is huge but was wondering about the warmth difference mainly. The Octave is very detailed so no problem with that at all but tone is what i'm trying to change.

One more thing, the review by part time audiophile (Scott Hull) compared his Border Patrol NOS R2R Dac favorably to the Atlantic albeit not in the same league. Has anyone heard this Dac? I can barely find any info. on the web but Scott told me he really loves it.

The one other review was with the daedalus speakers and the tortuga passive preamp. The reviewer said that the sound was a bit flat, I have tried the tortuga and I'm pretty sure that was the problem. I'm sure it's a good product but careful matching is a must and it didn't work at all in my system.

[wisnon]

http://hifiknights.com/reviews/sourc...ator-atlantic/
new review.

[wisnon]

Thank you for the warm welcome Joe, thought I should start looking around the web and found some familiar people here. I've also not met someone in recent times as generous as Mike.

A question for Winson, one of the reasons I bought my Metrum Octave R2R NOS dac several years ago was what you had to say about it at the time. Since then I have decided that it doesn't have the depth or tone that I'm looking for and was wondering if you could give me some comparisons to the the Lampi line up. I of course realize the difference is huge but was wondering about the warmth difference mainly. The Octave is very detailed so no problem with that at all but tone is what i'm trying to change.

One more thing, the review by part time audiophile (Scott Hull) compared his Border Patrol NOS R2R Dac favorably to the Atlantic albeit not in the same league. Has anyone heard this Dac? I can barely find any info. on the web but Scott told me he really loves it.

The one other review was with the daedalus speakers and the tortuga passive preamp. The reviewer said that the sound was a bit flat, I have tried the tortuga and I'm pretty sure that was the problem. I'm sure it's a good product but careful matching is a must and it didn't work at all in my system.

Are you sure it was me that told you about the Metrum? I suspect it was Gopher, as he used to own one.

If you got an Atlantic which is based on a great R2R board and with tube rectification, you will likely get the depth and tone you seek. I am yet to get a demo, but from what I can infer it will outstanding for the price.

[nicoludio]

http://hifiknights.com/reviews/sourc...tor-atlantic/\
new review.

http://hifiknights.com/reviews/sourc...ator-atlantic/

Thanks, Norman. Just added the correct link.

Interesting review and the comparison with the Golden Gate gives a useful perspective on the Atlantic's performance.

[Greg F]

Hi Norman, Well I thought it was you? It was several years ago and a lot of people were talking about it. It wasn't Gopher as I hadn't known him yet on any forum and do recall I already had mine when he was talking about his. Anyway, I know you spread the word on the Lampi gear where ever you go and I'm sure it is good. One of these days I will get to hear it.

[tomy2]

http://hifiknights.com/reviews/sourc...ator-atlantic/
new review.

Thats a great review! That guy knows how to put his thoughts into writing very well.

My Atlantic is still impressing me each time I listen. I was a little butt hurt that tube rectification wasn't offered when I ordered but the stock Atlantic in combination with a SET integrated I have is sounding superb.

[Genjamon]

http://hifiknights.com/reviews/sourc...ator-atlantic/
new review.

Ok, this was a magnificently descriptive review, but I think a bit disingenuous. He didn't comment on how the sound character of his chosen 101D tubes in the Golden Gate would have been impacting the sound. In my experience rolling tubes in my Big7 with R2R, his description of the GG with WE101D replicas very much sounds familiar. But I would say the B7, and I assume GG too, change dramatically in character with different DHT's. My 300B tubes, for example offer a much more meaty, denser presentation, that very well could have more in common with the Atlantic.

He shoukd at least have acknowledged this variable. And it's an important benefit for those willing to go to the effort to tube roll in order to optimize the sound for their system. Where Atlantic does not offer as much flexibility.

But it it sounds like this Atlantic is a real champ. Tommy, I think it's about time you bring yours down to Tucson! I should have a pair of the anniversary 45 meshes from tHe latest batch within the week.

[nicoludio]

Therein lies the beauty of offering two platforms. Atlantic - one flavour initially, based on the designer's tastes, but now with the option to roll rectifiers. Big 7/GG - any flavour that you want, with many differing preferences. There is no best combination but repeatability of results may be an issue?

Here's another perspective from an owner/industry player who, I believe, has tried rolling tubes.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=143893.0

[quote author=vtvu link=topic=143893.msg1544765#msg1544765 date=1469325510]
I am one of those lucky ones. I have had four Lampizators in my system: Amber, Level 4, Big 7, and now Atlantic. All four have the Lampizator signature sound - crystal clear, organic, musically-involving. My Big 7 with the volume control served as my DAC/line preamp for a good 1.5 years. It was a versatile component that could take on different personalities with different rectifier and signal tubes. My favorite were the TunbgSol 5AS4a rectifier and Sylvania 2A3 signal tubes. But as I had input switching, USB/SPDIF, PCM/DSD, AND polarity switching all in the same unit, the remote switching was a little complicated and caused confusion to my family members. So I sold it and immediately missed the Lampi sound. When I read about Lukasz' new Atlantic DAC and his enthusiam about it I had to try it. Lukasz, besides being a brilliant designer, has one of the best ears in the business. A good engineer cannot make good-sounding equipment unless he has good ear. I know and trust Lukasz' ear. So I took a chance on the Atlantic sight unseen.
Having had the Atlantic in my system for two weeks now I can happily report that it is a winner. Since it doesn't have a volume control option or extra line in, I am using it with the Luminous Audio Axiom III passive preamp, a great component in its own right which also is much simnpler to operate.
As compared to the Big 7, I would say that the Atlantic/Axiom combo retains all the positive characters of the Big 7 but also has a crystalline quality not found in the former. The difference is similar to the OTL sound as compared to good tube equipment. I have had good tube designs in my system - Cary, Counterpoint, C-J. But when I first heard OTL equipment, notably Transcendent Sound and Atma-Sphere, I knew I much preferred the OTL sound. But I couldn't deal with the amount of heat generated by OTL equipment, especially in the summer. In addition, all the fussiness of tubes biasing and noise are negatives.
Now I have the OTL sound without the fuss. The combination of the Atlantic DAC, Axiom passive preamp, Wells Audio Innamorata solid state amplifier (another great piece), all plugged into the new Wells Audio Looking Glass power conditioner and wired with DanaCables, is in a word, magical! It has the harmonically-rich sound of tubes, crystalline quality of OTL, tight bass performance of solid state, and the musically-involving, pinpointed soundstage imaging that resembles the real performance. I go to live and mostly acoustical performances at least once a month (just came back from the Montreal Jazz festival) and this comes close to the real thing.
Vinh Vu
Gingko Audio and DanaCable
[/quote]

[bonzo]

Hi, I have had L4, L5, B7, and GG in my system, and have spent time with big 6 in a friend's system, and we have a reasonable Lampi gang in and around London so also have heard them in other systems. I have not heard the Atlantic yet.

For me, one thing set the B7 apart from all the lower based models - the ability to resolve complex music (orchestral) was much higher, and that was even with the first version, with cheap 2A3 tubes. The lower models congested. This is also something I look for when I compare other electronics like preamps, for example.

Since then Big 7 has improved, so have the tubes we have rolled in it. The test of Atlantic will be to see if it can resolve such music as well with the dynamics. For $4k, translating to used price of 2k, it seems a no-brainer to me anyway, but for those who seek the ultimate, it will be comparing how they resolve complexity

Therein lies the beauty of offering two platforms. Atlantic - one flavour initially, based on the designer's tastes, but now with the option to roll rectifiers. Big 7/GG - any flavour that you want, with many differing preferences. There is no best combination but repeatability of results may be an issue?

Here's another perspective from an owner/industry player who, I believe, has tried rolling tubes.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=143893.0

[quote author=vtvu link=topic=143893.msg1544765#msg1544765 date=1469325510]
I am one of those lucky ones. I have had four Lampizators in my system: Amber, Level 4, Big 7, and now Atlantic. All four have the Lampizator signature sound - crystal clear, organic, musically-involving. My Big 7 with the volume control served as my DAC/line preamp for a good 1.5 years. It was a versatile component that could take on different personalities with different rectifier and signal tubes. My favorite were the TunbgSol 5AS4a rectifier and Sylvania 2A3 signal tubes. But as I had input switching, USB/SPDIF, PCM/DSD, AND polarity switching all in the same unit, the remote switching was a little complicated and caused confusion to my family members. So I sold it and immediately missed the Lampi sound. When I read about Lukasz' new Atlantic DAC and his enthusiam about it I had to try it. Lukasz, besides being a brilliant designer, has one of the best ears in the business. A good engineer cannot make good-sounding equipment unless he has good ear. I know and trust Lukasz' ear. So I took a chance on the Atlantic sight unseen.
Having had the Atlantic in my system for two weeks now I can happily report that it is a winner. Since it doesn't have a volume control option or extra line in, I am using it with the Luminous Audio Axiom III passive preamp, a great component in its own right which also is much simnpler to operate.
As compared to the Big 7, I would say that the Atlantic/Axiom combo retains all the positive characters of the Big 7 but also has a crystalline quality not found in the former. The difference is similar to the OTL sound as compared to good tube equipment. I have had good tube designs in my system - Cary, Counterpoint, C-J. But when I first heard OTL equipment, notably Transcendent Sound and Atma-Sphere, I knew I much preferred the OTL sound. But I couldn't deal with the amount of heat generated by OTL equipment, especially in the summer. In addition, all the fussiness of tubes biasing and noise are negatives.
Now I have the OTL sound without the fuss. The combination of the Atlantic DAC, Axiom passive preamp, Wells Audio Innamorata solid state amplifier (another great piece), all plugged into the new Wells Audio Looking Glass power conditioner and wired with DanaCables, is in a word, magical! It has the harmonically-rich sound of tubes, crystalline quality of OTL, tight bass performance of solid state, and the musically-involving, pinpointed soundstage imaging that resembles the real performance. I go to live and mostly acoustical performances at least once a month (just came back from the Montreal Jazz festival) and this comes close to the real thing.
Vinh Vu
Gingko Audio and DanaCable

[/QUOTE]

[nicoludio]

Would be keen to hear your thoughts, given your experience with the Lampi line and, in particular, the various tube options.

The Atlantic design remains fluid, according to wisnon, with the possibility of 2 more tube types, rollable between brands.

Having said that, afaik, the Atlantic was essentially the Lite 7 innards (presumably modified to fit the 4P1L tube) shoe-horned into a L4 chassis. With the tube rectifier option, it would be similar to the Big 7 but with 4P1L as the only tube option.

Would it get close to the Big 7? That remains to be seen...

[tomy2]

Hi, I have had L4, L5, B7, and GG in my system, and have spent time with big 6 in a friend's system, and we have a reasonable Lampi gang in and around London so also have heard them in other systems. I have not heard the Atlantic yet.

For me, one thing set the B7 apart from all the lower based models - the ability to resolve complex music (orchestral) was much higher, and that was even with the first version, with cheap 2A3 tubes. The lower models congested. This is also something I look for when I compare other electronics like preamps, for example.

Since then Big 7 has improved, so have the tubes we have rolled in it. The test of Atlantic will be to see if it can resolve such music as well with the dynamics. For $4k, translating to used price of 2k, it seems a no-brainer to me anyway, but for those who seek the ultimate, it will be comparing how they resolve complexity

Just curious what you think contributes more to getting that more resolving sound with dynamics, the design of the circuit or the fact that the B7 uses the big dht tubes? I guess a comparison of the L7 and B7 would be good for that along with the Atlantic.

I'll be comparing my Atlantic this weekend to a B7 even though I'm not expecting much in terms of a close fight like the one reviewer made it sound.

[Gopher]

The Atlantic design remains fluid, according to wisnon, with the possibility of 2 more tube types, rollable between brands.

This is still very much in the *possibility* realm and though it has been discussed, I'm not sure it will be a reality. A part of the beauty and allure of the Atlantic is that it will not overwhelm people with choices of tubes and people who would normally go solid state can tip toe out of their comfort zones (and be rewarded kindly for doing so).

[bonzo]

Just curious what you think contributes more to getting that more resolving sound with dynamics, the design of the circuit or the fact that the B7 uses the big dht tubes? I guess a comparison of the L7 and B7 would be good for that along with the Atlantic.

I'll be comparing my Atlantic this weekend to a B7 even though I'm not expecting much in terms of a close fight like the one reviewer made it sound.

No idea, I imagine it is the power supply and the analog output section, plus the fact that you can put the best valves in audio in front if the chain.

[Genjamon]

No idea, I imagine it is the power supply and the analog output section, plus the fact that you can put the best valves in audio in front if the chain.

I've been thinking of trying one of these solid state rectifier drop in replacements in the Big 7 just to see what that sounds like. http://www.tedweber.com/wu4gb

Would that be a good emulation of what the Lite 7 might sound like?

[Genjamon]

I'll be comparing my Atlantic this weekend to a B7 even though I'm not expecting much in terms of a close fight like the one reviewer made it sound.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a fairly close fight. Looking forward to it!

[wisnon]

I've been thinking of trying one of these solid state rectifier drop in replacements in the Big 7 just to see what that sounds like. http://www.tedweber.com/wu4gb

Would that be a good emulation of what the Lite 7 might sound like?

Yes, AL tried them and liked them. Not as good as WE or Tak, but pretty competitive with the more average tube rectifiers.

[nicoludio]

This is still very much in the *possibility* realm and though it has been discussed, I'm not sure it will be a reality. A part of the beauty and allure of the Atlantic is that it will not overwhelm people with choices of tubes and people who would normally go solid state can tip toe out of their comfort zones (and be rewarded kindly for doing so).

Thanks. Totally agree with the last point.

[nicoludio]

I've been thinking of trying one of these solid state rectifier drop in replacements in the Big 7 just to see what that sounds like. http://www.tedweber.com/wu4gb

Would that be a good emulation of what the Lite 7 might sound like?

Yes, AL tried them and liked them. Not as good as WE or Tak, but pretty competitive with the more average tube rectifiers.

Which leaves room for a rather unusual choice to order the Atlantic with the tube rectification option and "roll" SS rectifiers, if this is better than the stock SS rectification in the Atlantic/Lite 7. Or is this a fool's errand. Hmm...

[Genjamon]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a fairly close fight. Looking forward to it!

We have completed our session. I don't want to post much about my impressions at the moment, as I'd rather let Tom take first crack at it. What I will say right now is that the Atlantic is a very fine sounding DAC.

Some of the combinations we tried:

Atlantic with Aum Tortuga passive pre

Big7 with Takatsuki 300B and NOS Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier, Big7 with Psvane WE101D-L (same as the other review) and NOS Brimar 5Z4GY - both using Aum Tortuga Passive pre

Big7 with Psvane WE101D-L through Hattor passive volume control

Big7 with Psvane WE101D-L through Big7 integrated volume control

All system variables were kept the same between both DACs. They both had Zenwave D4 interconnects into the preamp, and used the same type of Zenwave PL power cord with Furutech FI50 carbon connectors.

Rest of the system includes: Line Magnetic 518ia (Psvane WE845's, 1957 metal base Phillips 5ar4 rectifier, Ei pre-war 12ax7's, new stock Gold Lion KT88's), Daedalus DA-RMa V2 speakers, dual 15" subs - fed by Sonore microRendu powered by HDPlex LPS, along with TPLink fiber media connectors, DLNA file server in another room of the house. All power outlets Furutech GTX-(R), and all power cables Zenwave PL11 or PL14 with Furutech carbon connectors. Zenwave modded Surge-X power conditioner. In other words, diligence has been paid to lowering noise in all parts of the system, as best I can at the moment.

[tomy2]

Oh gee, thanks Ben.

I'll keep it short and simple. Most of the session was with the Tortuga as the preamp. We listened to the B7 with the Tak300b's first for a bit before we switched to the Atlantic. After several tracks the Atlantic really came into its own and on certain songs I preferred it to the B7. Listening to several jazz tracks had me tapping my foot and really thought the tone and musicality of the Atlantic was shining through. I also thought the bass was better on the Atlantic with it being more punchy and full sounding. It was a matter of preference at this point as far as what was considered better or preferred. I thought both had a similar size soundstage and depth.

Where things changed for me was when the WE 101d's got put in on the B7. I thought the detail and imaging improved while still being musical. Listening to the same track back and forth between dacs I definitely noticed instruments were popping out from everywhere in the soundstage. With the Atlantic it still sounded good but compared to the 101d B7 it almost sounded hazy or fuzzy.

Overall I thought the Atlantic held its own and faired much better than I thought it would but in the end the B7 still ruled.

[Genjamon]

Ha, well, what can I say? I respect your opinion...

Yeah, a big surprise for me was when we put in the WE replica 101D's, and I didn't hate them like I had earlier. About a week ago, I uncovered a major weak link in the system, some small signal tubes I didn't think were still in the signal path on the Line Magnetic, but actually were. So when I put some higher quality tubes in that position, the sound of the whole system really took a leap forward. But I had the Tak 300B's in the system because they were way better with the old shitty 12AX7's. So, hadn't given the WE replica 101D's another chance since disqualifying them with the old config. I spent a couple more hours listening on the 101D's after Tom left and am liking what I'm hearing. Unfortunately, the Lampi anni EML 45's didn't arrive yesterday - they'll be delivered tomorrow. So, no ability to comment on them. I do suspect they might be the closest analog to the tubes in the Atlantic, but we may never know unless we're able to do another get together comparison sometime.

So, big lesson #1 for me reaffirmed: Big7 tube selection makes a huge difference in terms of system synergy. And the flexibility to tune to taste is a big potential plus for prospective owners -as long as you're up for the challenge and cost of finding the right tubeset for you - neither of which is at all insubstantial.

After first swapping the Atlantic into the system, I did really enjoy how much airier the presentation was than with the Big7 on Tak 300B diet. Instruments had more crispness to them as well, which was good for some music, but also lost some magic for me on other types of music like Madeleine Peyroux's first album. Not quite as much complexity of individual instrumental sounds that make them sound more real. But, I agree the Atlantic had firmer bass foundation, and clearer too. Attributes I have heard solid state rectification brings to the table compared with tube rectification. But this also was likely due to the different attributes of 300B tubes vs the ones in the Atlantic. Overall, I'd say the Atlantic has a great balance of detail, crispness, tone, meatiness/weight, drive, and air. Honestly, it's pretty awesome.

I didn't get as close a listen comparing the two DACs after we put in the 101D's. I let Tom have the captain's chair for those sessions, and I was listening off-center and out-of-plane. But what I did hear in those comparisons was a more insightful and realistic presentation of instruments. I'd agree with Tom's assessment of that comparison.

So, overall comparison, I'd say the Atlantic is really great, very well balanced DAC, and extremely musical. I love it. But the Big7 can go deeper into the depths of instrumental/musical realism, and has tremendous tube flexibility to cater to individual tastes. Whether those additional abilities/qualities is worth the price gap will certainly be a matter of individual tastes/interests. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Atlantic, and a whole helluva lot right.

I'd also say the comparisons of the various passive attenuators was pretty interesting. Some aspects of each were very appealing, but I think we all preferred the built-in Lampi volume control the best.

All in all, a very interesting day! Many thanks to Tom for driving all the way down to Tucson from Phoenix and coming prepared with not just the Atlantic, but also cabling and his Hattor passive that made our comparisons truly apples to apples.

[firedog]

For those of you comparing, Lampi DACs, a question:
What usually stands out in reviews of Lampizator DACs is that people say they are the most emotionally satisfying and involving of any DAC they've heard. So I'm wondering, does the Atlantic also give you this sense of emotional involvement as the Big 7 and GG?

That interests me much more than the question of minute differences in various aspects of playback.

[firedog]

For those of you comparing, Lampi DACs, a question:
What usually stands out in reviews of Lampizator DACs is that people say they are the most emotionally satisfying and involving of any DAC they've heard. So I'm wondering, does the Atlantic also give you this sense of emotional involvement as the Big 7 and GG?


That interests me much more than the question of minute differences in various aspects of playback.

[bonzo]

Sorry maybe I missed this. Was anything orchestral compared, with 101d and the Atlantic?

[Mike]

For those of you comparing, Lampi DACs, a question:
What usually stands out in reviews of Lampizator DACs is that people say they are the most emotionally satisfying and involving of any DAC they've heard. So I'm wondering, does the Atlantic also give you this sense of emotional involvement as the Big 7 and GG?


That interests me much more than the question of minute differences in various aspects of playback.

Welcome Firedog

[nicoludio]

Sorry maybe I missed this. Was anything orchestral compared, with 101d and the Atlantic?

Would be keen to know too.

tomy2 mentioned that with the WE 101D on the B7, the Atlantic sounded, in comparison, relatively fuzzy and hazy.

[Genjamon]

Sorry maybe I missed this. Was anything orchestral compared, with 101d and the Atlantic?

We mostly played a number of cuts from a test compilation a friend of ours shared from back in 2006 from the NY audiophile Rave group. A few other key tracks I like to listen to critically and know really really well. A range of music types. Some of the songs we keyed into most were:

Wynton Marsalis - Feeling of Jazz
The Bad Plus - Keep the Bugs Off Your Glass and the Bears Off Your Ass
Mino Cinelu - Oncoming Horizons
Nils Lofgren - Keith Don't Go
Madeleine Peyroux - (Getting Some) Fun Out of Life
Martin Sexton - The Beast In Me (Live Wide Open recording)

There were others, but these were the ones we came back to for repeated listening close comparisons.

In addition, in the middle, when the Atlantic was in the system for the first time, I had about 30 min in the sweet spot and listened through a wide range of other favorite test tracks quickly. Since I know my Big7 really well and have done a lot of close listening over the past six months as I've been tuning my system to a new home and lots of tube swapping, it was probably easier for me to hear differences fairly quickly between B7 and Atlantic.

During this mini-session of mine, I did play Copeland's Fanfare for the Common Man - the only orchestral piece, but no real strings - sorry. Compared to the B7 with 300B tubes, this song had more air, and more precise sound. Again, the Atlantic has a well-balanced crispness to the sound in my hearing of it. And Atlantic also probably had more delineated and controlled bass. Probably better resolution of the tympani's echo and reverberent field of sound. I didn't hear any immediate weaknesses on this track. But, we didn't replay this to my memory with the WE101D tubes in the B7, and I haven't replayed that since. Probably best to say this song might have been a toss-up between the two.

Basically, I doubt anyone who has bought an Atlantic will feel like they're missing anything. You would have to really listen closely side by side, or have had extended experience with B7 or another top top DAC to know that there's more to be had than what Atlantic is bringing to the table. If you have this experience, though, I think you can hear that the crisp sound of the Atlantic is actually a truncating of the inner detail of instruments.

But I strongly caution people not to read too much into this "crispness" issue I'm raising. This is not like the crispness you might hear in a detail-champ analytical DAC, an emphasis on leading edge sounds at the expense of tone and organic warmth. I might sum it up with an example from that Madeleine Peyroux track. It has this great piano solo in the middle of it. With Atlantic, the piano sounds like a real piano. It has a great combination of that initial strike of the note, along with the natural tone that comes from harmonics in the decay of the note. Very realistic sounding and balanced sound. But with the Big7, in addition to this, you would also hear some of the actual sound of the key action itself on the keyboard, in addition to the sound of the note itself. This may be oversimplifying a bit, but I think this gives a sense of the differences I heard at least, across a wide range of music. The Big7 could just get into this deeper inner world of the instruments and musicians better than the Atlantic. At least, that's what I was hearing.

And it would make sense given the design choices. Both units use the same digital input boards. And the same R2R DAC board. The differences are in the power supply, and the output tubes. Atlantic is solid state rectified, with the DHP output tubes. Big7 is tube rectified with a bunch of chokes on the power supply, and with DHT tubes. I suspect the heavily choked power supply filtering is what is largely responsible for this performance gap, cleaner power yielding deeper inner resolution in the Big7. But that's just me.

[Genjamon]

For those of you comparing, Lampi DACs, a question:
What usually stands out in reviews of Lampizator DACs is that people say they are the most emotionally satisfying and involving of any DAC they've heard. So I'm wondering, does the Atlantic also give you this sense of emotional involvement as the Big 7 and GG?


That interests me much more than the question of minute differences in various aspects of playback.

Yes, Atlantic is a very emotionally involving DAC. But the greater degree of inner resolution of the Big7 has the potential to be even more emotionally involving if the rest of your system is up to bringing out this resolution as well, and if that's what you really thrive on as a listener.

But in terms of overall character, they are definitely cut from very similar cloth. See my above comments on the similar nature of the design between the two DAC's - same input boards and DAC boards, just different power supplies and output tubes.

[nicoludio]

Thanks for the insights.

With the tube rectifier option on the Atlantic, I suppose that the Atlantic could close the distance to the B7 in the areas you mentioned unless, of course, that gap is entirely due to the inherent sound of the 4P1L output tube.

[Genjamon]

Thanks for the insights.

With the tube rectifier option on the Atlantic, I suppose that the Atlantic could close the distance to the B7 in the areas you mentioned unless, of course, that gap is entirely due to the inherent sound of the 4P1L output tube.

Also keep in mind the additional chokes the B7 has in the power supply. These are a significant factor in the cost differential as well. I will add that my unit has had the optional anode choke added, as well as the normal chokes included in a B7. I'm really not at all sure how much contribution that might have, as I had the R2R board added at the same time, and the unit was gone for multiple weeks. Between break-in of the new boards and fickle auditory memory, as well as evolving system variables in my new room, I can't say how much the extra choke contributes.

Anyway, better power supply filtering very well SHOULD result in greater microdynamic resolution.

[Greg F]

Genjamon, thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts. Looking forward to more... I would also be interested in what the two of you think about the HDPlex PS as I've been considering this purchase. I like the idea of multiple output voltages as this makes for a much better value if the results are similar.

[Genjamon]

Genjamon, thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts. Looking forward to more... I would also be interested in what the two of you think about the HDPlex PS as I've been considering this purchase. I like the idea of multiple output voltages as this makes for a much better value if the results are similar.

Well, HDPlex is pretty much off-topic. But I'll give a short reply since it's relevant to getting the full experience with the DACs. I have found the microRendu (and my previous Auralic Aries) to be quite sensitive to improvements in their power supplies. They sounded good with basic power supplies, but there is much more refinement to be added by a quality LPS. My first PS with the microRendu was the cheap iFi unit. By contrast, the iFi is a quite bleached and strident sound. I am confident that if the iFi had been used in yesterday's audition, we would not have been able to tell the differences in my accounts above between the DACs, or at least not nearly to the same degree. The HDPlex by comparison allows the music to relax, hear a real body and warmth to instruments, and improves soundstage depth and realistic air. It's just more real sounding. Though initially in comparison the iFi might sound exciting, that excitement is based on that more incisive sound, but is really a product of noise causing an emphasize on leading edge sounds and a certain amount of grunge obscuring all that natural tone and microdynamics to the music.

I'm sure there are additional improvements to be heard with the Uptone JS-2, or other higher end LPS units. I am quite interested in adding a LPS-1 to the system to power the microRendu, when they come out. But to me, the HDPlex is a unique unit in the marketplace. It has amazing flexibility and the capacity to be a true multi-use component, and it's relatively affordable at $400. I'm currently using two of its outputs - one to power the microRendu, and one to power the FMC on the DAC side. When the LPS-1 comes out, it will allow me to use HDPlex to power the LPS-1 and microRendu, and both of the FMC's instead of just one. So, I'll be getting a three-fer there. Pretty awesome if you ask me.

[La Dolce Vita]

Oh gee, thanks Ben.

I'll keep it short and simple. Most of the session was with the Tortuga as the preamp. We listened to the B7 with the Tak300b's first for a bit before we switched to the Atlantic. After several tracks the Atlantic really came into its own and on certain songs I preferred it to the B7. Listening to several jazz tracks had me tapping my foot and really thought the tone and musicality of the Atlantic was shining through. I also thought the bass was better on the Atlantic with it being more punchy and full sounding. It was a matter of preference at this point as far as what was considered better or preferred. I thought both had a similar size soundstage and depth.

Where things changed for me was when the WE 101d's got put in on the B7. I thought the detail and imaging improved while still being musical. Listening to the same track back and forth between dacs I definitely noticed instruments were popping out from everywhere in the soundstage. With the Atlantic it still sounded good but compared to the 101d B7 it almost sounded hazy or fuzzy.

Overall I thought the Atlantic held its own and faired much better than I thought it would but in the end the B7 still ruled.

Great feedback - I can relate. I would say however that in my experience the 101D's are by far the most detailed tubes I've had in my B7's and GG's. Even fatiguing at times but at others equally glorious... Hard for anything to compare if you are assessing dynamics, speed, etc...


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[bonzo]

Great feedback - I can relate. I would say however that in my experience the 101D's are by far the most detailed tubes I've had in my B7's and GG's. Even fatiguing at times but at others equally glorious... Hard for anything to compare if you are assessing dynamics, speed, etc...


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Have you tried the PX4, the special Lampi 45s, and the 242s?

[La Dolce Vita]

I have tried the PX4 yes. Nice tubes but not my favorites in my system. Remember so much of this is system (and room) dependent. I have yet to hear the 242s but know from Mike and others they are like a 101D with the full breath of 300B's. The Lampi 45 mesh globes are my tubes of choice. They've been in for many months now


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[tomy2]

Great feedback - I can relate. I would say however that in my experience the 101D's are by far the most detailed tubes I've had in my B7's and GG's. Even fatiguing at times but at others equally glorious... Hard for anything to compare if you are assessing dynamics, speed, etc...


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Yeah, thats where sometimes I'm hesitant to give a recommendation because what I hear in a particular system and or room could be very different from somebody else's with the same dac. If genjamon hasn't already mentioned it, his previous house/room was much more lively and the 101d's weren't a good fit but in the room where everything currently is it's much more dead and we both thought the 101d's brought a lot of the detail out without being analytical or fatiguing.

[La Dolce Vita]

Yeah, thats where sometimes I'm hesitant to give a recommendation because what I hear in a particular system and or room could be very different from somebody else's with the same dac. If genjamon hasn't already mentioned it, his previous house/room was much more lively and the 101d's weren't a good fit but in the room where everything currently is it's much more dead and we both thought the 101d's brought a lot of the detail out without being analytical or fatiguing.

We are on the same page. That's great to hear! Glad the two of you identified an optimal choice given the new listening environment. Enjoy!!


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[Mike]

My Atlantic DAC is in Tampa clearing customs.

[tomy2]

With the tube rectifier option on the Atlantic, I suppose that the Atlantic could close the distance to the B7 in the areas you mentioned unless, of course, that gap is entirely due to the inherent sound of the 4P1L output tube.

I'm still tempted to get the tube rectifier retro fitted in my Atlantic but after Saturday's session I'm wondering if its really worth it. I like to have options and being able to roll at least one tube in the Atlantic dac would be nice. If I do get the tube recti I would be willing to back to genjamon's house for another go at it. But I think Mike is getting his with tube rectification so it will be interesting to see what he thinks of it in his system.