KR Audio PX25 vs 242 vs the rest...

[Mike]

242 is dynamic as hell.
PX25 doesn't give up much to the 242 and adds 300b mids.

Do we have a winner? Maybe. Gain is VERY high. Sonically, a bit of a bite on the top. Need to give it some hours to see if it smooths out. I would call it "300b on crack". A little aggressive out of the box.


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[Mike]

And in case you're wondering...

PX25 = 300b setting
242 = 101d setting


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[sonnyv727]

How you like it PX25 compares to WE300B Mike.?

[khonfused]

This is going to be my final tube rolling weekend...for the time being.

After having identified the Takatsuki 274b as the clear winner for the recti position, I want to find out more of the strengths and weaknesses of the output tubes (no 242 at hand unfortunately, only px25)

[Marslo]

My PX 4 , replace 242 , to strong in my setup.
Will keep 101d replicas and PX 4 .
KR 5u4g as recti.

I asked Lukasz about the difference between PX 25 an PX 4 and he said the amplification factor of PX 25 is about 50 % higher.
This is why I ordered PX 4.

[wisnon]

242 is dynamic as hell.
PX25 doesn't give up much to the 242 and adds 300b mids.

Do we have a winner? Maybe. Gain is VERY high. Sonically, a bit of a bite on the top. Need to give it some hours to see if it smooths out. I would call it "300b on crack". A little aggressive out of the box.


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PX4 is lower gain PX25.

[khonfused]

Gentlemen,

after having myself familiarized with the px25 over the last week or so, I was curious to give all my other output tubes another run for their money.
I really got to enjoy the px25 which needs to be run on the 300b setting. So in order to save myself valuable time I choose the Erog 300b as the first candidate...
I put on Bruckner symphony no.9 and a piece from a Madeleine Peaureux album.

The Elrog is probably the most beautiful tube by the look of it, but overall I don't think it's the best match for my system or for my taste.
While it doesn't really have any shortcomings, I just prefer a bit more dynamic presentation with more air between the instruments.
I just love to be able to follow each instrument on a virtual stage. I like that cleanliness. That gives me just more enjoyment than a bit more midrange lushness.
In my system the 300b has that really nice tonal color at the expense of some mushiness in the overall presentation.
I guess I am just not a 300b guy in general...what can I say....

I am thinking of letting the Elrog go to someone whose system and taste is a better match for this great tube.
Let me know if you're interested. The tubes still have a warranty of several months and are from the last batch.

Next up was the 45 Globe mesh anniversary, also a rare breed...
For me it's a better fit for my system and it draws me more easily into the music. I will.keep it installed for a while now and listen to all kinds of music over the next few days before going back to the px25 and also try the 101d replica again....

[deuter]

Gentlemen,

after having myself familiarized with the px25 over the last week or so, I was curious to give all my other output tubes another run for their money.
I really got to enjoy the px25 which needs to be run on the 300b setting. So in order to save myself valuable time I choose the Erog 300b as the first candidate...
I put on Bruckner symphony no.9 and a piece from a Madeleine Peaureux album.

The Elrog is probably the most beautiful tube by the look of it, but overall I don't think it's the best match for my system or for my taste.
While it doesn't really have any shortcomings, I just prefer a bit more dynamic presentation with more air between the instruments.
I just love to be able to follow each instrument on a virtual stage. I like that cleanliness. That gives me just more enjoyment than a bit more midrange lushness.
In my system the 300b has that really nice tonal color at the expense of some mushiness in the overall presentation.
I guess I am just not a 300b guy in general...what can I say....

I am thinking of letting the Elrog go to someone whose system and taste is a better match for this great tube.
Let me know if you're interested. The tubes still have a warranty of several months and are from the last batch.

Next up was the 45 Globe mesh anniversary, also a rare breed...
For me it's a better fit for my system and it draws me more easily into the music. I will.keep it installed for a while now and listen to all kinds of music over the next few days before going back to the px25 and also try the 101d replica again....

That's good to know.
I for one love my 242 I suppose you cannot try it in your system.

Do PM me what you want for the Elrog, I might be interested.

[Mike]

I can't say I'm loving the PX25. It just too aggressive. Almost too dynamic, over the top, if there is such a thing. I'm going to go back to the 242 now and compare.

[Mike]

242's back in. Much better. Back to the Lampi EML 45's next.


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[Mike]

It's a toss up between the Lampi 45's and KR 242's. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. The 242 is a dynamic champ. It has this drive and this level of dynamics which pushes everything to the max, but never over it like the PX25. It would be wonderful for classical music. Really toe tapping. The Lampi 45's absolutely nail instrument tone, vocals, sweetness on top, etc. They are smoother and more laid back, but never syrupy of slow sounding. Listening to Eva Cassidy with the 45's would give you chills.

If you're into Jazz and Classical - the 242 is a champ.
If you're into female vocals, acoustic, etc. - the 45 is a champ.

[Alrainbow]

Great review MIKE , thanks for posting the details of them.
Did you post hiw recti effect the drivers. ???
also what digital engines do you have in yours ?
As I have two devices there seems to be changes in sound scape for tubes .
Lastly in your words what make the tak best and why , does this seem to be in all tubes ?
Sorry for many questions I do trust your views verymuch as well as the time you put into this product .

[Mike]

Great review MIKE , thanks for posting the details of them.
Did you post hiw recti effect the drivers. ???
also what digital engines do you have in yours ?
As I have two devices there seems to be changes in sound scape for tubes .
Lastly in your words what make the tak best and why , does this seem to be in all tubes ?
Sorry for many questions I do trust your views verymuch as well as the time you put into this product .

Thanks Al. I have tried so many rectifiers, I've forgotten most: WE274b, WE422a, EML 5U4G, KR 5U4G, Psvane 274b replica, Phillips Metal Base Z34 and the list goes on. I have never tried the Takasuki 274b, but know others who have. I'm sure its terrific.

I switch between my Lumin and Aurender network players as the mood arises. As far as my Lampi, I have a SE Big 7 with the latest R2R. I need a firmware upgrade to enable to single chip seamless PCM/DSD switching.

I would like to get the PX4 tubes in to try next. I'm very happy with the Lampi EML 45's and the KR 242's. I have tried numerous output tubes including the WE300b, Psvane 300b Replica's, Psvane 101d replicas, EML Anniversary Globe 45's and dozens of others.

The 242 has such amazing drive and edge of your seat dynamics, but gives up a little in the midrange. The Lampi EML 45's give up a little in dynamics and drive, but they absolutely nail tonality and midrange, with top end sweetness thrown in.

It all comes down to system synergy and musical tastes. I can see how even the PX25 would be a great tube in a overly warm, syrupy system in desperate need of dynamics and resolution. The 242 is a step down from the PX25 in terms of dynamics (in a good way). I found the PX25 quite aggressive with bite to be honest. The 242 retains 95% of the PX25's dynamics and resolution, without going over the top. The Lampi EML 45 is a different animal all together. Rich in tonality and pitch perfect.

[Genjamon]

Thanks for all these thoughts, Mike. How would you compare the PX25 to the Psvane 101D replica's? Those are pretty detailed, dynamic, and resolved as well. But it sounds like PX25 do dynamics in a meatier way? Based on your recommendation of looking to PX25 to counter an overly warm system, that's kind of what I would think 101D replicas would be recommended for as well. But somehow I suspect PX25 and 101D replicas are substantially different sounding. Care to comment?

[Mike]

The PX25 has more meat on the bones than the Psvane Replica 101d, but the 101d never went over the edge. I would put the 101d in a "fat" sounding system. They will thin it out. The PX25 is best for a system lacking dynamics, that's rolled off and also lacks resolution and could use a titch more "meat on the bones" as well. Given this odd combo, I think its proper application will be rare.


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[Genjamon]

Thanks, Mike. Very helpful.

[bonzo]

The PX25 has more meat on the bones than the Psvane Replica 101d, but the 101d never went over the edge. I would put the 101d in a "fat" sounding system. They will thin it out. The PX25 is best for a system lacking dynamics, that's rolled off and also lacks resolution and could use a titch more "meat on the bones" as well. Given this odd combo, I think its proper application will be rare.


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Sometimes I wonder if the right thing is to complement a system's characteristics or to supplement them

[wisnon]

The PX25 has more meat on the bones than the Psvane Replica 101d, but the 101d never went over the edge. I would put the 101d in a "fat" sounding system. They will thin it out. The PX25 is best for a system lacking dynamics, that's rolled off and also lacks resolution and could use a titch more "meat on the bones" as well. Given this odd combo, I think its proper application will be rare.


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Your mind could change after the latest R2R FW update. Al is loving the Px25!!!!
He also prefers it on the Dac with the updated FW vs the HeadDac with early FW. Both R2R.

[Mike]

Your mind could change after the latest R2R FW update. Al is loving the Px25!!!!
He also prefers it on the Dac with the updated FW vs the HeadDac with early FW. Both R2R.

The PX25 is a great tube, don't get me wrong, BUT....as with all things, very system dependent.

[Alrainbow]

Damn mike is my system that bad or am I hearing impaired lol.
If someone's system is able to tell one tube from another including recti is there sysem lacking resolution. Also where does resolution leave off and transparency pick up.
In a direct comparison with the 101d mentioned I can see why some say it's a 101d on steroids. It has the hyper details of a 101 d but carries the meat of a 300 b.
But what you or anyone else has not said has me a bit perplexed
it's background is black more than any other tube I own more than my msb is back much more really
with the msb I could tell what the low noises are and now with this and the new B7 and these tubes is off the charts
the new r2r is PCM at its best I ever heard bar non
anyone who gets it will be screaming on here. I own a Stevie ray on sacd set love the music but it's PCM is clean clear and so outright dynamic it's sharpness cuts my ears up. I can play that music at live volumes so loud I can hear the hum in the studio when the music is stopped lol. For me r2r new non SW is a major imporovmet and it's dsd is very good but perhaps chipless is better but it's very close.

[deuter]

What way I can check the firmware of my R2R ?

[wisnon]

Ask Lukasz...give him serial number.

[Mike]

After lots of back and forth, I'm really enjoying the KR Audio 5U4G (Lampi) with the KR Audio 242's. Simply outstanding combination. Using my analog setup as the reference, this combination gets the closest in sound so far. I still want to try the PX4's.

[Jack]

Mike

Have you tried any of the NOS American made 5U4G's from the 50's-60's from Tung Sol, Raytheon, Sylvania, etc? Fairly easy to find for less than $30. I bought a NOS Tung Sol last week for less than $20.

[Mike]

Mike

Have you tried any of the NOS American made 5U4G's from the 50's-60's from Tung Sol, Raytheon, Sylvania, etc? Fairly easy to find for less than $30. I bought a NOS Tung Sol last week for less than $20.

I actually have tried some. They are very good, but I found the RCA 5U4G too soft, the Phillips metal base Z34 too bright, the Sylvania just ok, but I haven't tried that Tung Sol or Raytheon though.

How are you liking that Tung Sol?

[Mike]

A few I've tried...











And about 10 others....


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[bonzo]

I agree, I find those kind of Rectis too soft. KR 5u4g, or based on reports, just pay up for the Tak 274

[Jack]

Mike

The Tung Sol just came in the mail yesterday will try it soon.

[deuter]

After lots of back and forth, I'm really enjoying the KR Audio 5U4G (Lampi) with the KR Audio 242's. Simply outstanding combination. Using my analog setup as the reference, this combination gets the closest in sound so far. I still want to try the PX4's.

I'am looking at getting the KR Lampizator5U4G to run with the KR242.
Currently got the Emission Labs mesh 5U4G with the KR 242.

What can I expect the be the subtle differences?

[bonzo]

I have a pair of KR power for sale and another friend has Px4.

400 gbp per pair, plus postage.

[bonzo]

I'am looking at getting the KR Lampizator5U4G to run with the KR242.
Currently got the Emission Labs mesh 5U4G with the KR 242.

What can I expect the be the subtle differences?

Two of us sold our EML text after receiving the KR 274, and then I sold my KR 274 after receiving the Lampi KR recti

[Alrainbow]

I have all
of the tubes posted. Except the eml 5u4g.
Thr eml while good tonal qualities also has grain
and it's something you don't know till it's gone.
A solid state recti shows it. The kr5u4g recti is in my top 3
a very quit tube in fact all
kron tubes are very low level noise
I own the kr 242 /px4/px25. And a bunch of lampi and anniversary output tubes
mesh seems to add something musical to all tubes including the recti
I see why the 242 tube is liked as it's very clean / detailed and has no peaks with a nice mid and high end but it's low end lacks a bit
some of our music needs a low end added
ots why I use many tubes. Same goes for male and female vocals
the 242 is warm of neutral but not much.

I have not heard the kr274b tube and I like them over the 5u4g. My exception. Is the Kron
when I got my b7 back with mundorf caps a cap I like
I let Luke pic what tubes to seel
me with its upgrade. I do this as he is our artist and I have so many tubes I feel
i could nkt make a choice for myself. Luke has improved our dacs at every update
I know as I have had many. So I let him pick. That is hiw I got the px25 and kr5u4g a set I would never buy. Yet ithey have magic. This is how it happens for me. I got my head dac back I'll post in its own thread

[bonzo]

Hi Al, Bill and I found the bass, slam, and resolution much higher on the 242 as well. This can change based on the system if the gain does not match. Best thing is to get the Lampi adjusted for 242 gain and the rest of the electronics adjusted to match the gain. It is the the single biggest upgrade both he and I.know apart from changing speakers. We were once Lampi fans, now we are Lampi with 242 fans. Even his wife was commenting on hifi attributes yesterday and she has never done that before.

[Alrainbow]

I should of clarified my bass remark. Yes it has increased speed or slam
the dac I am using for the above observation is my head dac / no driver enabled and it has dueland caps and all of the latest clocks and both r2r and chipless dsd to 512.
but for me and this is me it has less of it than 45 and of course a2a3 or 300 b. I feel in the pursuit of an anolog sound some including me give up some weight to get there or closer to it.
If there is one conclusion we all can draw from a a lampi big 7 is its tremendous adversity in sound in our setups. Using both headphones and speakers alone points to no one tube for all much less music genre. One of the greatest attributes is the many possibilities we can draw from in its use in the vast variety of music
In using my head dac by rolling drivers I can achieve it's sound with the Kron px25 tube. But that is getting off topic

[bonzo]

Weird because we find the 300b and 45s less in bass

[Alrainbow]

Yes it sure seems that way.
Lets go through a few groups of tubes and give simple views
101d very linear least bass , most or of the most speed in notes and impact but has least note thickness. I think it's staging seems flat least musical but great on big stage like classical
next 242 seems to increase a relaxing feel / clean nice highs increased note thickness has good musicality has good Staging and overall a nice tube. Has good speed but not brutal like a 101d
px 25 that feels like a 300 b or heavy 45 but has low noise floor giving it more details even in bass than a 300b
45 a bit brighter less warm I have many so they vary but more note thickness thena 101 d
more tense then a 242
300 b has increased warmth and a bit bloated bass some have a lush mid but they seem to roll
off the highs more making some seem darker
now strictly bass
101d very detailed fast articulate
242 a bit more weight and still has speed but relaxed less analytical then the 101d
45 my sweet spot for bass has it all speed , weight , impact
then the px25 and 300b more impact , slower
more weighted and some seem bloated
now in my head dac I can roll In
driver tube that negates what's wrong with a 300 b
this is with a px25
the drivers are extremely neutral so it does work both as a dac and with headphones
please reply this nkt an argument it's just hiw each hear it on there system

[deuter]

Two of us sold our EML text after receiving the KR 274, and then I sold my KR 274 after receiving the Lampi KR recti

That tells me what you did, but doesn't explain the sound signature difference if any.

[bonzo]

Yes it sure seems that way.
Lets go through a few groups of tubes and give simple views
101d very linear least bass , most or of the most speed in notes and impact but has least note thickness. I think it's staging seems flat least musical but great on big stage like classical
next 242 seems to increase a relaxing feel / clean nice highs increased note thickness has good musicality has good Staging and overall a nice tube. Has good speed but not brutal like a 101d
px 25 that feels like a 300 b or heavy 45 but has low noise floor giving it more details even in bass than a 300b
45 a bit brighter less warm I have many so they vary but more note thickness thena 101 d
more tense then a 242
300 b has increased warmth and a bit bloated bass some have a lush mid but they seem to roll
off the highs more making some seem darker
now strictly bass
101d very detailed fast articulate
242 a bit more weight and still has speed but relaxed less analytical then the 101d
45 my sweet spot for bass has it all speed , weight , impact
then the px25 and 300b more impact , slower
more weighted and some seem bloated
now in my head dac I can roll In
driver tube that negates what's wrong with a 300 b
this is with a px25
the drivers are extremely neutral so it does work both as a dac and with headphones
please reply this nkt an argument it's just hiw each hear it on there system

Looks like we have different experiences on 242. It is more detailed, fast, and way better tone than 101d. More 3D and bass and slam and extension on either end.

[bonzo]

That tells me what you did, but doesn't explain the sound signature difference if any.

Hi Deuter, we don't sell for small differences, everything was more - soundstage, bass, slam, just sounded better in every way. EML was too laid back in comparison. Best thing for rectis is buy and then sell the one you don't like, they sell quickly

[Crashem]

Has anyone compared the KR PX4 to the Marconi/MOV px4?

[bonzo]

Has anyone compared the KR PX4 to the Marconi/MOV px4?

No but I am interested.

[deuter]

I have posted my KR Audio 242's for sale:

http://www.audioshark.org/showthread.php?t=13024

[Slapshot]

Trying to resurrect this discussion after a few years as it almost directly applies to my current scenario. I have a Lampizator Golden Gate and am trying to really optimize the incredible sound quality it is capable of.

Thusa far, I have tried several 300B's, 101D's. None are giving me quite what I desire. I'm currently using the Lampizator supplied EML 5u4g, with the KR Audio PX4's I do have a couple other options for the rectifier, buy would like to sort out the other pair first. of I am looking for an overall balanced sound, with solid bass reproduction, but more liquid midrange and sparkling highs. Any suggestions as to my best tube options would be greatly appreciated. I know there is a ton of knowledge and expertise in the group who were communicating in this discussion.

A friend is about to loan me a very nice NOS pair of 45's. Not sure where that will take me.

[deuter]

Trying to resurrect this discussion after a few years as it almost directly applies to my current scenario. I have a Lampizator Golden Gate and am trying to really optimize the incredible sound quality it is capable of.

Thusa far, I have tried several 300B's, 101D's. None are giving me quite what I desire. I'm currently using the Lampizator supplied EML 5u4g, with the KR Audio PX4's I do have a couple other options for the rectifier, buy would like to sort out the other pair first. of I am looking for an overall balanced sound, with solid bass reproduction, but more liquid midrange and sparkling highs. Any suggestions as to my best tube options would be greatly appreciated. I know there is a ton of knowledge and expertise in the group who were communicating in this discussion.

A friend is about to loan me a very nice NOS pair of 45's. Not sure where that will take me.

I would definitely recommend the KR 242’s if your dac can accomodate.
It’s a crazy tube, very dynamic and full of life.

[wisnon]

I vote PX25 as best compromise.

[Slapshot]

I would definitely recommend the KR 242’s if your dac can accomodate.
It’s a crazy tube, very dynamic and full of life.

Thanks, but I am afraid it might well be too dynamic. I'm looking for more warmth.

[dminches]

Thanks, but I am afraid it might well be too dynamic. I'm looking for more warmth.

The Western Electric 300B reissues have the best midrange of any of these tubes. They are not as dynamic as the 242s. They definitely have a sense of warmth. They respond well to different rectifiers.

[Alrainbow]

Tubes have a few factors that can lead to a type of sound
the 242 is a very high gain set tube in fact I don’t think there is one that is higher
the px25 is a close second
To my ears it’s a 300b sound but faster due to its gain
it is warm of neutral to me as well where the 242 is less more neutral
the recti used has a big effect on the sound in a Lampi
so if the recti is low power it may slow the rise or speed of a fast tube
I think it’s due to it running out of head room
a high power recti is much closer to a SS recti sound again more head room less dc droop
faster = more gain of tubes but only if the recti used has the head room
this is my take on tubes

[Slapshot]

The Western Electric 300B reissues have the best midrange of any of these tubes. They are not as dynamic as the 242s. They definitely have a sense of warmth. They respond well to different rectifiers.

Just to double check, you are referring to the actual reissues made by Western Electric ($1500 per matched pair) as opposed to the Psvane Western Electric reissues ($850.00).

I would love the opportunity to try them, but unfortunately don't feel that I can spend $1500.00 just to see if they work well in my DAC. If they don't, I'm out a lot of money.

[Slapshot]

Tubes have a few factors that can lead to a type of sound
the 242 is a very high gain set tube in fact I don’t think there is one that is higher
the px25 is a close second
To my ears it’s a 300b sound but faster due to its gain
it is warm of neutral to me as well where the 242 is less more neutral
the recti used has a big effect on the sound in a Lampi
so if the recti is low power it may slow the rise or speed of a fast tube
I think it’s due to it running out of head room
a high power recti is much closer to a SS recti sound again more head room less dc droop
faster = more gain of tubes but only if the recti used has the head room
this is my take on tubes

I greatly appreciate your thoughts, Al. I have an actual 5R4GY STC BRIMAR (FOOTSCRAY) to try out, which I will do asap. Can also access, for not too much money, an NOS Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 if you think that would be worthwhile to try. I was also pondering the purchase of an NOS Haltron (RCA) 5U4G. Any thoughts would be extremely helpful.