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  1. #1

    The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    I've been following Rafe Arnott on Parttimeaudiophile and read his piece on Shindo that featured an interview with Matt Rotunda from PitchPerfectAudio and Jonathon Halpern from Tone Imports. Rafe put together a beautifully shot and edited video interview with both Matt and John. Very well done Rafe!

    https://videopress.com/embed/vC851UlT

    Link to original article.

    https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2018/...high-fidelity/

  2. #2

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Many thanks. It needs a lot of snake oil to make an old junk Garrard worth 32K.There is a company called Oswald Mills Audio in Brooklyn which makes 300K horn speakers. All handmade. Seems to fit exactly to Shindo. Best of the best.

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    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Many thanks. It needs a lot of snake oil to make an old junk Garrard worth 32K.There is a company called Oswald Mills Audio in Brooklyn which makes 300K horn speakers. All handmade. Seems to fit exactly to Shindo. Best of the best.
    Seriously you are up to the same bullshit again. What the hell. Mods you need to remove this slanderous member. He has no place here.


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    Chris

    Garrard 301, SME 2012r, EMT TSD15, A23 T2 Hommage SUT, Shindo Montille, Shindo Aurieges, Shindo ICs and Auditorium Speaker Cables, Auditorium A23 Hommage 755a Speakers.

  4. #4

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Why so harmfull and arrogant? Did I do personal aggression against you? Tell us more about your person and personality.
    Its all about your personal discomfort with other members, nothing related to the topic of this thread.

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    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    I liked the video. Thanks a lot.
    Did you notice the Verdier La Platine ?
    Years ago when I was looking for my last tt, I was hesitating between the Verdier and the Shindo 301.
    Went finally for the Verdier but the 301 never left my mind. I wonder how they compare.


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  6. #6

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Garrard is drive and dynamics. Verdier is mass and steadyness. Both you can hear. Decide for yourself

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    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Garrard is drive and dynamics. Verdier is mass and steadyness. Both you can hear. Decide for yourself
    Hello Walter,

    I do not get your thoughts precisely.
    I have no doubt the 301 is very dynamic.
    Although I have a fully restored 124 and heard some 301's and Lenco or PTP Audio tts, I do not get what this "drive" notion is about. Is it something like the british "PRaT" ?
    And why steadiness and mass should be opposed to dynamics ? And the 301 has no "steadiness" ?

    I am listening to my Verdier right now and both micro and macro dynamics are very close to me to the best possible sound. And my cart is not the most "dynamic" out there. ( Koetsu Urushi Vermillion).
    Here are my feelings : the bass of the Verdier is so deep, so textured and full, that compared to tt's that do not have this insight in the bass, or with inappropriate speakers or amps, the sound can seem "slow" or "fat".
    Used with high eff speakers, using very light bass drivers with paper membranes and no rubber suspension, the Verdier is as good as it gets when it comes to dynamics. IMHO.



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  8. #8

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Jerome,
    at first, there are some versions of big verdier turntables. A version with an artificial stone epoxy composite and a version with MDF base.
    301 and Verdier differs widely in sound and construction. 301 is not about some specific sonic spectacular. In fact, it divests those criterias and tries to integrate many seldom heard qualities. It has a bone dry bass department, but this sounds complex and deep from its massive wood body. It is analytical for such an old idler design and that comes from its mods Shindo does to it. The platter, for instance rings like a bell without the Shindo mat but in combination, it is dead quiet. It has its strength in the idler drive dynamics and the tone colors and transparency, which occurs only when special mods have been done in combination with a plinth, which isnt overdamped like so many others.
    I know the Verdier sound, owned it for myself. But its a different kind of animal. It is very good at micro- and macro dynamics and to dive deeply into the sound with a huge and articulated body. But as good as its motor is- it misses the direct contact of motor and platter so the "pratt" is reduced. Some tries to overcome this fact with flywheels. Hadnt tried this method. But to me, its second most impressive was its absolutely steadyness, which for sure comes from its perfect and massive platter in combination with the geniously implemented magnetic bearing. Two different designs. Try to hear both and decide for yourself.

  9. #9
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    The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Jerome,
    at first, there are some versions of big verdier turntables. A version with an artificial stone epoxy composite and a version with MDF base.
    301 and Verdier differs widely in sound and construction. 301 is not about some specific sonic spectacular. In fact, it divests those criterias and tries to integrate many seldom heard qualities. It has a bone dry bass department, but this sounds complex and deep from its massive wood body. It is analytical for such an old idler design and that comes from its mods Shindo does to it. The platter, for instance rings like a bell without the Shindo mat but in combination, it is dead quiet. It has its strength in the idler drive dynamics and the tone colors and transparency, which occurs only when special mods have been done in combination with a plinth, which isnt overdamped like so many others.
    I know the Verdier sound, owned it for myself. But its a different kind of animal. It is very good at micro- and macro dynamics and to dive deeply into the sound with a huge and articulated body. But as good as its motor is- it misses the direct contact of motor and platter so the "pratt" is reduced. Some tries to overcome this fact with flywheels. Hadnt tried this method. But to me, its second most impressive was its absolutely steadyness, which for sure comes from its perfect and massive platter in combination with the geniously implemented magnetic bearing. Two different designs. Try to hear both and decide for yourself.
    Ok I get it more clearly.
    Searching about "flywheels" and Verdier on the web I found discussions also about changing the linen thread by a nylon one. Did you try ? Seems that the "weakness" of the Platine would come from the motor.
    A solution may be to use the motor of the Magnum maybe ?
    Thanks !!
    PS : seems that although you do not agree with the price tag, you like the Shindo 301 a lot no ? The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott


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  10. #10

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    I Just used the Verdier as it was supposed that time with a sewing thread. There was some change on this topic, as the very first Verdier prototypes had the motor placed very close to the device and used a belt for driving. That was changed later to a very thin sewing thread and the motor placed far away to minimize vibrations. You can try to use a massive wooden base which further decouples the Verdier from the room. And try the left sided spike on the mineral base.
    On some point of the evolution I wanted to know, how it all sounds with the player Shindo used for its gears and switched over. I can say, that I didnt regreted it but could recall my musical memory only. I never did A/B comparisons with both. There may be areas, where Verdier outperforms 301 (resolution, microdynamics) but when a system plays with SPU, the whole approach should be to integrate instead of analysing single acoustic phenomenons.

  11. #11
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    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    I Just used the Verdier as it was supposed that time with a sewing thread. There was some change on this topic, as the very first Verdier prototypes had the motor placed very close to the device and used a belt for driving. That was changed later to a very thin sewing thread and the motor placed far away to minimize vibrations. You can try to use a massive wooden base which further decouples the Verdier from the room. And try the left sided spike on the mineral base.
    On some point of the evolution I wanted to know, how it all sounds with the player Shindo used for its gears and switched over. I can say, that I didnt regreted it but could recall my musical memory only. I never did A/B comparisons with both. There may be areas, where Verdier outperforms 301 (resolution, microdynamics) but when a system plays with SPU, the whole approach should be to integrate instead of analysing single acoustic phenomenons.
    Thanks.
    I have been very happy with the Verdier and the SPU until I discover Koetsu.
    Imho, the Urushi Vermillion is like a supreme SPU, with better resolution and voices even more palpable and real. The insight into the music is deeper than with the SPU. I let it to a friend who is a SPU addict, using many of them. He thought he would never find a cartridge better than the SPU for human voices. He ordered the Urushi after 1 day with it.
    My Verdier is decoupled with a custom
    made huge PAB Reference SE platform which seats on a custom PAB rack.

    I do not think that I could do anything in this field.
    I would move to own a Shindo 301 though !


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  12. #12

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    At one point of refinement, I regarded the Shindo SPU as essential. Ordinary SPU arent capable of doing the things that can be done, youre correct. I never tried Koetsu but I am OK with the Shindo. Maybe you catch one 301 for a listening before buying. But anyway, you cant go wrong with the Shindo 301. I do think it was a long road to go for Ken to design such a perfect piece of music machine. Many innovative things in the details which I havent seen on any other record player. You will see and hear for yourself.

  13. #13

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    At one point of refinement, I regarded the Shindo SPU as essential. Ordinary SPU arent capable of doing the things that can be done, youre correct. I never tried Koetsu but I am OK with the Shindo. Maybe you catch one 301 for a listening before buying. But anyway, you cant go wrong with the Shindo 301. I do think it was a long road to go for Ken to design such a perfect piece of music machine. Many innovative things in the details which I havent seen on any other record player. You will see and hear for yourself.

    I agree totally Walter --I've owned 2 Full Shindo 301 Player systems--unrivalled!

    Bruce

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    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    At one point of refinement, I regarded the Shindo SPU as essential. Ordinary SPU arent capable of doing the things that can be done, youre correct. I never tried Koetsu but I am OK with the Shindo. Maybe you catch one 301 for a listening before buying. But anyway, you cant go wrong with the Shindo 301. I do think it was a long road to go for Ken to design such a perfect piece of music machine. Many innovative things in the details which I havent seen on any other record player. You will see and hear for yourself.
    The other problem with "ordinary" SPU is that the MC stage of Shindo preamps, at least the one in the Giscours, is not perfectly suited for them. It is very good for timbres but no dynamics.
    I get the idea of the full Shindo synergy. I have Shindo IC's and speaker cables and Mr. T's and each component brings definitely a "plus".
    But due to cost ( I have some problem understanding the price tags, maybe because all this "snake oil" used ! The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott) and ease of use, I chose not to follow this path completely. I ended up in my main system with the CJ GAT preamp and various power amps. My favorite amps being Diafan 300B monoblocks with WE tubes.
    The GAT does not have the ultimate refinement of timbres of the Giscours, but it is more dynamic and more convenient with the remote.
    Even my speakers are not Shindo but only inspired by Shindo.
    The time I spend listening to music is not enough to justify the 301 player for me.
    I have no doubts that it may be exceptional.


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  15. #15

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Jerome,
    what input trans are you using? Maybe give Lundahl a try. Shindo uses Lundahl all the time. Its not expensive, just do the right impedance matching for SPU.

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    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Jerome,
    what input trans are you using? Maybe give Lundahl a try. Shindo uses Lundahl all the time. Its not expensive, just do the right impedance matching for SPU.
    Hello,

    Yes, Shindo Giscours has Lundhal SUT in the MC stage and yet the SPU does not have adequate dynamics.
    I tried various others. The best one being Nagra SUTs in the BPS.
    Anyway I am no more into SPU’s since I discovered Koetsu cartridges. To me they are just in an other world of refinement and musicality. I use an Urushi Vermillion in the main system and a Rosewood in the secondary system. And they are not only super musical. They are super quiet. The surface noise is dramatically reduced. I thought the SPU’s were the most quiet cartridges but the Koetsu are much better.
    The SPU is used for my very old recordings, to preserve the Koetsu....


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    The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    To get back on the video, I went back on the Pitch Perfect web site of Matt and found a surprising pic of the Verdier. The magnets are very close to each others. Strange.
    It could be a faulty Platine or Matt did not set up the axis height the correct way. I just never saw the magnets being so close to each others.
    An other interesting point for me is that Matt is using a nylon thread instead of the linen one. I should give this a try.



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  18. #18

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Jerome, your magnet gap is extremely wide. The other Verdier has a normal sized gap, no problem here.
    Koetsu carts may be stunning, will try them later this life. Thanks for the hint. At the end, its all about synergy in a system and what we are able to audition is the result of very complex material world. Everything is audible and everything counts in a system. Every gear chain has weak points and to get better results, just eliminate the faults that limit the results. After being finished with the job, your system is world class.

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    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Jerome, I can attest to that JCV table working perfectly in that photo. The table and EMT cart sounded magnificent.


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    Garrard 301, SME 2012r, EMT TSD15, A23 T2 Hommage SUT, Shindo Montille, Shindo Aurieges, Shindo ICs and Auditorium Speaker Cables, Auditorium A23 Hommage 755a Speakers.

  20. #20
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    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Quote Originally Posted by Cucumber_jones View Post
    Jerome, I can attest to that JCV table working perfectly in that photo. The table and EMT cart sounded magnificent.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Hello,

    That's terrific.
    I am more than happy to see the Verdier Platine in a great place like Pitch Perfect.
    Imho the Platine is one of the greatest TT ever made and it has suffered from unfair critics especially here in France.
    "Nul n'est prophète en son pays" as we say in France which means approximately that it is more difficult to be honored in your own country than abroad.
    Mr Verdier, RIP, was not a marketing or a business guy. He was an engineer. Communicating with idiots was something irrelevant for him, even when he was personally attacked. He was a true gentleman with lots of class. I was very lucky to know him.


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  21. #21
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    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    hey guys - any comments on the Petit Latour speakers?

    I've heard the Lafites but not for me- a bit shouty on certain cuts and seemed music genre constrained.
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ 47 Labs MC Bee cart, MSB Premier DAC --> Music First Baby Reference v2 --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> YG Acoustics Hailey 2.2

  22. #22

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    It runs in the family- same sound as Latour but smaller soundstage. Excellent for smaller rooms.

  23. #23

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome W View Post
    Hello,

    That's terrific.
    I am more than happy to see the Verdier Platine in a great place like Pitch Perfect.
    Imho the Platine is one of the greatest TT ever made and it has suffered from unfair critics especially here in France.
    "Nul n'est prophète en son pays" as we say in France which means approximately that it is more difficult to be honored in your own country than abroad.
    Mr Verdier, RIP, was not a marketing or a business guy. He was an engineer. Communicating with idiots was something irrelevant for him, even when he was personally attacked. He was a true gentleman with lots of class. I was very lucky to know him.


    Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
    It’s such a great table. A little large and inconvenient in many domestic settings, but a superb performer. I enjoyed one for many years purchased from Min Su who was US distributor at the time (the steal of the audio world in 2004 - $8,000 to your door...I still remember coming home to those three giant boxes).
    Last edited by kev313; July 1, 2018 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Spelling

  24. #24

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Its a very old design and Verdiers MDF design base is a cheapo solution that doesn't work for optimum quality.

  25. #25
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    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Here are my new speakers. Inspired by the Shindo Latour.
    Using 416-8B woofers and a TAD 2001 compression instead of the Westrex used by Shindo.




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  26. #26

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Wow, they look gorgeous. Especially the veneer, superb.

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    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Wow, they look gorgeous. Especially the veneer, superb.
    Thanks Walter.
    Yes. The maker made a great job for the veneer.


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  28. #28

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Thats more true.

  29. #29

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Many thanks. It needs a lot of snake oil to make an old junk Garrard worth 32K.There is a company called Oswald Mills Audio in Brooklyn which makes 300K horn speakers. All handmade. Seems to fit exactly to Shindo. Best of the best.

    You our need to get a life man. Pathetic.

  30. #30

    Re: The Path of Shindo - Video Interview of Matt and Jonathan by Rafe Arnott

    Quote Originally Posted by rower View Post
    You our need to get a life man. Pathetic.
    You said it, mate.

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