Opinions on Lafon gm70's

briguy

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
84
I bought these used form another fella a few months ago and replaced all of the tubes. They've had plenty of time to break in now and I wanted to share some high level general impressions and see if they jive with what others who've lived with these amps have experienced.

I moved up from the Cortese which I loved. The Cortese had this amazing sweetness and consistency where everything just sounded really amazing. For a little stereo amp, even the bass sounded great. The only weakness was that I felt that the Cortese just wasn't totally enveloping. I REALLY value the depth of the soundstage. I like that feeling of being sucked into the music. While the Cortese made everything sound absolutely wonderful, it just didn't always get me inside the music.

FYI, for context I also have the Shindo 604's, Vosne Romanee, Shindo Interconnects, A23 speaker cable, Brinkmann Oasis with Graham Phantom II Supreme and a Koetsu Blue Lace (stone body).

The Lafon's were the amps I did my original auditions with and the amp I coveted. So when a pair came up for sale, I jumped on them.

I won't belabor the point, but when they arrived they were not well packed and the tubes were bent & some were broken. I replaced all tubes and had a tech open the amps up and he had to re-solder a connection or two.

Once all of this was done and my speakers were adjusted, I got to listening. First thing I noticed was how enveloping the sound was. EXACTLY what I was looking for. Now, not all source material does this. But when the source material has that quality, the Lafon's are simply insane. I've had more than a few transcendental moments which I won't describe for fear that it would be used to put me in a mental ward one day.

That said, the issue I have is that the Lafon's seem to have one and only one sweet spot with regards to where the volume has to be on any given album. The music just doesn't sound all that great at low volumes and as soon as you go too loud, it starts to distort. You gotta get it just right or it seems off and usually "just right" means cranked pretty loud.

Now part of it may be that the Lafon's just sound so amazing when you have that enveloping source material and I'm subconsciously seeking that out on material that just won't ever get me there. But I can't help but wonder if this is just a weakness with this particular amp OR if maybe there's damage to the amp itself that is causing these subtle sonic annoyances.

The Lafon is still the most amp I've ever heard. But it lacks the consistent sweetness that my Cortese had, begs to be turned way up and is prone to some graininess if everything is not juuuuust right.

Any of you guys who have lived with this amp have similar or different experiences?
 
I should add that it isn't always just a "get the volume right" thing. Sometimes it just doesn't sound right no matter how much I tweak the volume. I'd describe it as a slight hint of graininess, which I seem especially sensitive to and which the Cortese NEVER had.
 
Hmmm--- I was wondering when someone would have Transit hiccups with Tubes--I did notice Shindo amps -well the ones I've seen anyway-- are packed with the Tubes installed in place.

re the "graininess"the Amps seemingly are particularly sensitive to correct and matched NOS(read factory supplied) tubes--possibility you choice is not fully compatible ,or lacking in synergy with those particular Amps

Importer check maybe ?

Good luck

Bruce
 
Hmmm--- I was wondering when someone would have Transit hiccups with Tubes--I did notice Shindo amps -well the ones I've seen anyway-- are packed with the Tubes installed in place.

re the "graininess"the Amps seemingly are particularly sensitive to correct and matched NOS(read factory supplied) tubes--possibility you choice is not fully compatible ,or lacking in synergy with those particular Amps

Importer check maybe ?

Good luck

Bruce
Dealers don't send tubes installed. They are packed separately. But this was not bought from a dealer.

The dealer did provide NOS replacements though (thanks again Matt!).

I'm just trying to find out if what I'm describing is common to this amp or if I need to have it checked out. It's mostly spectacular, but just not 100% consistent the way my Cortese was. Loved that damn amp. Just wish it had more ummmmph.
 
Dealers don't send tubes installed. They are packed separately. But this was not bought from a dealer.

The dealer did provide NOS replacements though (thanks again Matt!).

I'm just trying to find out if what I'm describing is common to this amp or if I need to have it checked out. It's mostly spectacular, but just not 100% consistent the way my Cortese was. Loved that damn amp. Just wish it had more ummmmph.

Ah!-- OK, I did not know that with Dealer despatched Units. Its just I had my amp factory serviced and it returned with the 6v6's installed

--sorry for the confusion

Good luck with your fix

Bruce
 
Dealers don't send tubes installed. They are packed separately. But this was not bought from a dealer.

The dealer did provide NOS replacements though (thanks again Matt!).

I'm just trying to find out if what I'm describing is common to this amp or if I need to have it checked out. It's mostly spectacular, but just not 100% consistent the way my Cortese was. Loved that damn amp. Just wish it had more ummmmph.

Sorry bri, your wrong on this. Dealers and shindo in many cases send amps with the tubes installed. I know this for a fact.
 
I lived with the Shindo GM 70's for four years in an all Shindo system. I experienced some of the issues you bring up but eventually solved them by finding the right "attenuation" with my pre-amp, which was a WE Giscours. By trial and error I found that if I adjusted the attenuators on the amps between 12 and 3 it would allow me to listen at the level I wanted to with the Giscours volume between 10 and 1--it's sweet spot. I didn't adjust the amps attenuators for each disc; most of the time they were left at 2pm. This made a huge difference in the way I was brought into the music. With the amps' attenuators at full blast, I found aggressive but not seductive (maybe there was more punch but it wasn't worth it--at least to me). Another thing I learned: the amps are very sensitive to the surface they're on. I tried maple at first--no go. Metal (Symposium shelves)--no go. Then I glued together two 3/4" pieces of Baltic Birch. Yes Indeed. I now have a Box Furniture rack. Even more Yes Indeed. And of course, all Shindo gear hates to sit on anything but their own feet.

Try messing with the amps' attenuators and your pre-amp's volume. Interested to hear if it makes a difference for you.
 
I lived with the Shindo GM 70's for four years in an all Shindo system. I experienced some of the issues you bring up but eventually solved them by finding the right "attenuation" with my pre-amp, which was a WE Giscours. By trial and error I found that if I adjusted the attenuators on the amps between 12 and 3 it would allow me to listen at the level I wanted to with the Giscours volume between 10 and 1--it's sweet spot. I didn't adjust the amps attenuators for each disc; most of the time they were left at 2pm. This made a huge difference in the way I was brought into the music. With the amps' attenuators at full blast, I found aggressive but not seductive (maybe there was more punch but it wasn't worth it--at least to me). Another thing I learned: the amps are very sensitive to the surface they're on. I tried maple at first--no go. Metal (Symposium shelves)--no go. Then I glued together two 3/4" pieces of Baltic Birch. Yes Indeed. I now have a Box Furniture rack. Even more Yes Indeed. And of course, all Shindo gear hates to sit on anything but their own feet.

Try messing with the amps' attenuators and your pre-amp's volume. Interested to hear if it makes a difference for you.

yeah, I'm set in the 1 - 3 area but will play with that a bit more.
 
Briguy, I keep the WE300b at about twelve thirty. Like yours, my speakers are 100db and 16ohm. The amps sit on a Box Furniture rack.
 
Briguy, I keep the WE300b at about twelve thirty. Like yours, my speakers are 100db and 16ohm. The amps sit on a Box Furniture rack.
Planning to upgrade to the Giscours next year. My understanding is that it's a whole other level of refinement.

I I haven't heard the 300b's yet. Do you have any experience with the gm70's to be able to compare and contrast the sonic differences, strengths and weaknesses?
 
When you turn it up, it distorts in BOTH channels. Not taking anything away from the Giscours, but you have a wonderful preamp there. Cheers -Don
 
I lived with the Shindo GM 70's for four years in an all Shindo system. I experienced some of the issues you bring up but eventually solved them by finding the right "attenuation" with my pre-amp, which was a WE Giscours. By trial and error I found that if I adjusted the attenuators on the amps between 12 and 3 it would allow me to listen at the level I wanted to with the Giscours volume between 10 and 1--it's sweet spot. I didn't adjust the amps attenuators for each disc; most of the time they were left at 2pm. This made a huge difference in the way I was brought into the music. With the amps' attenuators at full blast, I found aggressive but not seductive (maybe there was more punch but it wasn't worth it--at least to me). Another thing I learned: the amps are very sensitive to the surface they're on. I tried maple at first--no go. Metal (Symposium shelves)--no go. Then I glued together two 3/4" pieces of Baltic Birch. Yes Indeed. I now have a Box Furniture rack. Even more Yes Indeed. And of course, all Shindo gear hates to sit on anything but their own feet.

Try messing with the amps' attenuators and your pre-amp's volume. Interested to hear if it makes a difference for you.
Briguy, I keep the WE300b at about twelve thirty. Like yours, my speakers are 100db and 16ohm. The amps sit on a Box Furniture rack.

Looks like I didn't actually have the attenuators adjusted. I really though I had adjusted these, but apparently not. Testing it out now, but have some questions.

What exactly are the attenuators doing?

Seems like if I turn them down between 12 and 3, I just have to turn the volume on the pre amp up. I haven't busted out the SPL meter yet to make sure I'm making level-matched comparisons, but I'm not sure I'm hearing much difference.

As I turn the attenuators down and the pre amp volume knob up, what predictable effect should we hear?

Also, I've been noticing a lot of bass energy feedback lately. This seems to go up significantly when I turn the attenuators down and pre amp volume knob up to reach a similar SPL Level. Is that normal?
 
I'm not sure, technically, what the attenuators are doing. All I know is they attenuate the power output of the amp.

The predictable effect I heard by having my amp attenuators around 2pm and my pre-amp volume between 10 and 1 was that the music was more engaging, the tonal balance more seductive.

I'm not sure what "bass energy feedback" is, so I can't respond to what is normal. You have a different pre-amp than I, so maybe you're having to turn up your pre-amp volume too high and are getting distortion.
 
I'm not sure, technically, what the attenuators are doing. All I know is they attenuate the power output of the amp.

The predictable effect I heard by having my amp attenuators around 2pm and my pre-amp volume between 10 and 1 was that the music was more engaging, the tonal balance more seductive.

I'm not sure what "bass energy feedback" is, so I can't respond to what is normal. You have a different pre-amp than I, so maybe you're having to turn up your pre-amp volume too high and are getting distortion.
I've sent these questions to Matt, so I'll see what he says. I also have to take into account all of the adjustable settings available on the 604's. Just not sure if this is primarily an art or science endeavor. Science would be nice, especially if we could say, 'In your size room, you should have the speakers set at "x", the amps at "y" and the pre amp at "z".' At least as a starting point. :)
 
My new amp from Shindo came with a sheet of paper saying not to go past 3 o'clock with the attenuators as damage may occur. Only mentioning this since one poster mentioned going full blast on his.
 
My new amp from Shindo came with a sheet of paper saying not to go past 3 o'clock with the attenuators as damage may occur. Only mentioning this since one poster mentioned going full blast on his.
Which amp do you have?
 
This was with the Montille CV391. From what I remember it seemed like a generic Shindo warning though, it might apply to all their amps. It would be worth asking a dealer.
Well, I guess that's good to know, even if it's too late now. Hope I haven't done damage, but something tells me that I have given the issues I continue to experience. Bummer that neither my Cortese or Lafon's came with that warning sheet. Actually, I suspect these issues already existed when I bought the Lafon's since they've been there from the beginning. I purchased the Lafon's second hand though since they are in production anymore. Again, big bummer.
 
This is NEWS to me. My understanding is the attenuators were fine anywhere. Simply a matter of preference, or to allow one to open up their PREAMP VC more....
 
Back
Top