Opinions on Lafon gm70's

briguy said:

Yeah, we'll see how this turns out. You can't really audition tables at this level prior to purchase, particularly since it is custom built.

Since Shindo isn't making their table anymore for the foreseeable future, this seemed like the best route. It's definitely a beautiful table.

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There is the Spec. I'd like to hear it, but I like Garrads.



Didn't Jeff Day just write up your model as his "Garrard project"? I'll have to check that out, though I confess to having a difficult time reading Jeff and cutting through his folksy simple style and seemingly compulsive need to be an audio anthropologist (and getting many of the fine details wrong along the way to his questionable conclusions). On second thought, I'll skip Jeff and wait to hear your thoughts.


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kev313 said:

There is the Spec. I'd like to hear it, but I like Garrads.

Didn't Jeff Day just write up your model as his "Garrard project"? I'll have to check that out, though I confess to having a difficult time reading Jeff and cutting through his folksy simple style and seemingly compulsive need to be an audio anthropologist (and getting many of the fine details wrong along the way to his questionable conclusions). On second thought, I'll skip Jeff and wait to hear your thoughts.


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The Spec does look interesting.

Jeff has the same plinth, assuming Artisan Fidelity hasn't changed their approach a little. But he had someone else refurbish his Garrard and is obviously using different arms. He's also using the motor from a 401.

My Garrard build is using a rebuilt 301 motor along with an aluminum Chassis CNC'd from a solid block of aluminum which Chris says improves on the strength of the stock chassis which had some weak points. I won't have a way to compare to a stick chassis, but artisan fidelity claims the benefits are clearly audible. We shall see.

I will let you know how it sounds.

Anyone know the pricing on the spec table?


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Matt has one in shop.


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tunes said:

Anyone know the pricing on the spec table?


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It was being offered awhile back as a package with EMT 997 for around $24k, but that was special introductory pricing 6 months ago so you'll have to call Matt to see what it is now.

I I like the look of it, but it wasn't quite what I was looking for aesthetically and I haven't heard it at all. Matt loves it though, so it must be special.

vortrex said:

You might want to research that some more. The T1 is for the Shindo and certain Ortofon SPU. The T2 is for 22ohm EMT carts. Any SUT will "work" with any cart, but if you want the best match and sound a Koetsu with a Hommage won't be it.

Also, keep in mind the EMT carts are 1mv so the T2 is designed accordingly.

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OK, I've read the entire post you referenced. My apologies for the defensiveness. I guess I took issue with your early characterization of the T2 being a bad match for the Koetsu. Having lived with it, I can say that it makes plenty of magic. Like I said before, there may be better matches, but I was still getting phenomenal sound from the pairing.

That said, I already knew the T2 Homage was a "perfect" fit for EMT carts which is why I already had one on order which I had mentioned in the prior post. But I was led to believe that theT2 Homage was a much better fit for the Koetsu than perhaps it is, which make me think that the new Miyajima Zero mono cart I have on the way might also be better served by a different SUT.

I was already planning to get a second SUT, so perhaps I'll do that sooner than later now. Again, apologies for the defensiveness.

briguy said:

I have a new table coming this week (Artisan Fidelity Garrard 301) with an Ikeda arm for the Koetsu and a Schroeder CB-1 for a Miyajima Zero mono cart. Matt thought I should wait to see if the table and new setup fixes the issue before sending to the repair tech in Arizona.

I also just picked up the new EMT JSD Platinum (P 6.0 I guess it's called) that I'll have on my second headshell.

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Beautiful turntable to say the least. I have a Thorens that was built by Chris a few years ago.
His work is great and is always getting better.

briguy said:

The Spec does look interesting.

Jeff has the same plinth, assuming Artisan Fidelity hasn't changed their approach a little. But he had someone else refurbish his Garrard and is obviously using different arms. He's also using the motor from a 401.

My Garrard build is using a rebuilt 301 motor along with an aluminum Chassis CNC'd from a solid block of aluminum which Chris says improves on the strength of the stock chassis which had some weak points. I won't have a way to compare to a stick chassis, but artisan fidelity claims the benefits are clearly audible. We shall see.

I will let you know how it sounds.

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What's the eta on your table? I've been aware of the solid chassis for the 301 for some time from Stefano's blog but have so far disregarded it as coming from that category of cottage industry products that are spawned in the wake of Internet reports like Jeff's (see original plinth explosion following Jeff's original 6moons post). I'll admit to being biased. I was inexperienced with Garrards at that time and learned the hard way by buying one of the skeletal plinths from Terry Cain. Awful plinth. Totally the wrong approach. Hah...I remember conversations with Jonathan 10 years ago where he explained his theory on that design. I thought he was mad because I didn't go all in on a Shindo. I couldn't. Still haven't. Anyway, he was right on that one. I've "plinthed" (my word) a 1/2 dozen 301 since then.

To my point, I've been burned on some of these products that sprout up from these popular trends. Ive also had a few plinths from a popular maker and, having had an extremely negative experience on the second, am no longer convinced of the value proposition. In short, I probably could've purchased 2 Shindo 301 for what I have otherwise invested in the rag tag approach. Think what you want about the Shindo approach (you, generally, not YOU), I continue to say the the value of that approach lies in the final product, not the parts. If you like the Shindo sound, there was a guy who devoted his time to tuning each piece to *collectively* lead to the final destination. I know there are strong opinions as to whether that is truth, BS, cultism, hifi religion, ignorance, arrogance, a sales scam or some combination thereof. In my experience, it has caused more in lost sales than sales for the Shindo crew. Case in point, they could've sold 5,000 Shindo platters and probably twice as many SPU over the last 10 years. But they won't.

Recognizing that I'm not a measurements guy, it's the only approach that really makes sense to me. I'm interested to see how this table fits into the Shindo system. What voice does it speak with? Does it still have the Garrard strengths or is it now some weird Magicoesque device? There are reports to be audible improvements, but what? Totally curious and fascinated. I'm not at all dismissing the possibility for improvements. I'm not a Luddite. In addition to my Garrards and 124s, I've also had a number of modern tables, including a stunningly well built Brinkmann (that I used with the Shindo phono pre! Sacrilege!). I'm open to new ideas.


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kev313 said:

What's the eta on your table? I've been aware of the solid chassis for the 301 for some time from Stefano's blog but have so far disregarded it as coming from that category of cottage industry products that are spawned in the wake of Internet reports like Jeff's (see original plinth explosion following Jeff's original 6moons post). I'll admit to being biased. I was inexperienced with Garrards at that time and learned the hard way by buying one of the skeletal plinths from Terry Cain. Awful plinth. Totally the wrong approach. Hah...I remember conversations with Jonathan 10 years ago where he explained his theory on that design. I thought he was mad because I didn't go all in on a Shindo. I couldn't. Still haven't. Anyway, he was right on that one. I've "plinthed" (my word) a 1/2 dozen 301 since then.

To my point, I've been burned on some of these products that sprout up from these popular trends. Think what you want about the Shindo approach (you, not YOU), I continue to say the the value of that approach lies in the final product, not the parts. If you like the Shindo sound, there was a guy who devoted his time to tuning each piece to *collectively* lead to the final destination. I know there are strong opinions as to whether that is truth, BS, cultism, hifi religion, ignorance, arrogance, a sales scam or some combination thereof. In my experience, it has caused more in lost sales than sales for the Shindo crew. Case in point, they could've sold 5,000 Shindo platters and probably twice as many SPU over the last 10 years. But they won't.

Recognizing that I'm not a measurements guy, it's the only approach that really makes sense to me. I'm interested to see how this table fits into the Shindo system. What voice does it speak with? Does it still have the Garrard strengths or is it now some weird Magicoesque device? There are reports to be audible improvements, but what? Totally curious and fascinated. I'm not at all dismissing the possibility for improvements. I'm not a Luddite. In addition to my Garrards and 124s, I've also had a number of modern tables, including a stunningly well built Brinkmann (that I used with the Shindo phono pre! Sacrilege!). I'm open to new ideas.


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Everything arrived yesterday. I have a lot going on this weekend, so won't get to get it all set up until Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll need to let it settle in a bit before reporting anything, but will keep you posted.

I I was planning to go the Shindo Player route, however, they're not going to be in production for the near future so it wasn't an option. I almost got a used one when it came up for sale, but it sold before I was sure I could pull the $$ together on such short notice.

In in the end it's all trade offs. Unless you get to live with both approaches for a significant period of time, I think it's hard to fairly evaluate the strengths/weaknesses of a table, particularly the Shindo vs Artisan Fidelity since the differences are likely to be subtle or more subtle than Shindo vs a modern belt-drive table.

For me personally, I put a high value on the aesthetics (I work in UX design), so the ability to customize the look via veneer selection was important. And I liked the idea of a dual arm table, something Shindo doesn't offer.

In in the end it's a leap of faith. It's an easier leap with the Shindo Player in the context of a full Shindo system since you know that you're staying with the original artistic vision. But that doesn't preclude other from sharing a similar vision, even if the execution is different (e.g. A23, Spec, EMT, etc are all approaching fidelity from a similar point of view even if they aren't made by Shindo).

It it may be that Chris at AF is this generation's Ken. Only time will tell. There's no doubt in my mind, however, that he is making far & away the most beautiful tables around. Others may disagree, but to my eyes he is doing something special that time will not forget. Hopefully the sound matches the beauty of the tables.

briguy said:

Everything arrived yesterday. I have a lot going on this weekend, so won't get to get it all set up until Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll need to let it settle in a bit before reporting anything, but will keep you posted.

I I was planning to go the Shindo Player route, however, they're not going to be in production for the near future so it wasn't an option. I almost got a used one when it came up for sale, but it sold before I was sure I could pull the $$ together on such short notice.

In in the end it's all trade offs. Unless you get to live with both approaches for a significant period of time, I think it's hard to fairly evaluate the strengths/weaknesses of a table, particularly the Shindo vs Artisan Fidelity since the differences are likely to be subtle or more subtle than Shindo vs a modern belt-drive table.

For me personally, I put a high value on the aesthetics (I work in UX design), so the ability to customize the look via veneer selection was important. And I liked the idea of a dual arm table, something Shindo doesn't offer.

In in the end it's a leap of faith. It's an easier leap with the Shindo Player in the context of a full Shindo system since you know that you're staying with the original artistic vision. But that doesn't preclude other from sharing a similar vision, even if the execution is different (e.g. A23, Spec, EMT, etc are all approaching fidelity from a similar point of view even if they aren't made by Shindo).

It it may be that Chris at AF is this generation's Ken. Only time will tell. There's no doubt in my mind, however, that he is making far & away the most beautiful tables around. Others may disagree, but to my eyes he is doing something special that time will not forget. Hopefully the sound matches the beauty of the tables.

Click to expand...

You had me for a while until you said Chris may be this generations ken. No way.

briguy said:

Everything arrived yesterday. I have a lot going on this weekend, so won't get to get it all set up until Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll need to let it settle in a bit before reporting anything, but will keep you posted.

I I was planning to go the Shindo Player route, however, they're not going to be in production for the near future so it wasn't an option. I almost got a used one when it came up for sale, but it sold before I was sure I could pull the $$ together on such short notice.

In in the end it's all trade offs. Unless you get to live with both approaches for a significant period of time, I think it's hard to fairly evaluate the strengths/weaknesses of a table, particularly the Shindo vs Artisan Fidelity since the differences are likely to be subtle or more subtle than Shindo vs a modern belt-drive table.

For me personally, I put a high value on the aesthetics (I work in UX design), so the ability to customize the look via veneer selection was important. And I liked the idea of a dual arm table, something Shindo doesn't offer.

In in the end it's a leap of faith. It's an easier leap with the Shindo Player in the context of a full Shindo system since you know that you're staying with the original artistic vision. But that doesn't preclude other from sharing a similar vision, even if the execution is different (e.g. A23, Spec, EMT, etc are all approaching fidelity from a similar point of view even if they aren't made by Shindo).

It it may be that Chris at AF is this generation's Ken. Only time will tell. There's no doubt in my mind, however, that he is making far & away the most beautiful tables around. Others may disagree, but to my eyes he is doing something special that time will not forget. Hopefully the sound matches the beauty of the tables.

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Ken designed his 301 within the context of a system (which he also designed). Maybe Chris is this generation's 1/16 scale Ken. Which is not so bad. Hard to argue your point on the belt drive. I haven't heard it, but JH has the Spec line. He seems to like the table. Several other non Shindo tables have been found to work just fine. Notably, the Verdier also a belt/string drive. I'm totally interested in your report. To be clear, although I'm not a huge fan of Jeff Day as a writer, I have enormous respect for his taste in gear which aligns closely with my own (with some exceptions as noted above plus his 75,000 crossovers and the WE wire...all of which I attribute to his writing style and goals). I'd be inclined to pick up a stock 301 and plinth it cheap to compare if I were you. By the way, I think the wait for a Shibdo 301 is back down to about 6 months. You've made your call obviously, but I just wanted to throw that out for anyone else considering.


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Cucumber_jones said:

You had me for a while until you said Chris may be this generations ken. No way.

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Ha. But you've based that on what?

Have you owned one of his tables?

I'm not saying he is. He obviously isn't building electronics (to my knowledge), so you could easily argue that he isn't a "full-stack" engineer to borrow a descriptor from the software engineering world. But when it comes to vintage turntable restoration, he's at least up there in the conversation and doing it with a lot of different tables.

Time marches on and there's no reason, in my opinion, to believe that someone won't come along and do something even more interesting than what Ken accomplished, even if the approach and end result is totally different.

What I know is that Chris makes the most gorgeous stuff out there. I'll withhold my opinions on the sound until I can base it in experience. And I'll withhold sonic comparisons until I can also base those on real world extended listening experience. I'm only qualified to pass judgement on the aesthetics at this point.

I will say the same to you - based on what. Based on looks. Looks mean very little in audio. Very very little.

1/16 ken, maybe but that is a stretch too.

I will change what I just said. Looks mean nothing in audio. Sonics are everything.

Ok ok ok. Let's talk about the aesthetics. Beautiful work. Much respect to the designer for the skill to put this together. Maybe it's me, but I find his tables to be a little bling-y for my taste. I don't have a problem with "look at me design," but there is just something about the shiny finish, wide multi colored grain and chrome looking arm and platter that, taken together, is too much for me. Beautiful, in its way, but not for me.


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briguy said:

OK, I've read the entire post you referenced. My apologies for the defensiveness. I guess I took issue with your early characterization of the T2 being a bad match for the Koetsu. Having lived with it, I can say that it makes plenty of magic. Like I said before, there may be better matches, but I was still getting phenomenal sound from the pairing.

That said, I already knew the T2 Homage was a "perfect" fit for EMT carts which is why I already had one on order which I had mentioned in the prior post. But I was led to believe that theT2 Homage was a much better fit for the Koetsu than perhaps it is, which make me think that the new Miyajima Zero mono cart I have on the way might also be better served by a different SUT.

I was already planning to get a second SUT, so perhaps I'll do that sooner than later now. Again, apologies for the defensiveness.

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After discussing this issue with Matt, perhaps I should rescind my apology. He does not seem to share the same feelings around spec matching that are being expressed in that other thread nor the sentiment that somehow the T2 Homage isn't a great (even best available) pairing for my Koetsu with the VR.

He's of the camp that what works best on paper doesn't necessarily translate to the best sound and that it is as much art as science if the impedance matching is in the general ballpark.

kev313 said:

Ok ok ok. Let's talk about the aesthetics. Beautiful work. Much respect to the designer for the skill to put this together. Maybe it's me, but I find his tables to be a little bling-y for my taste. I don't have a problem with "look at me design," but there is just something about the shiny finish, wide multi colored grain and chrome looking arm and platter that, taken together, is too much for me. Beautiful, in its way, but not for me.


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Understandable, but with Artisan Fidelity the choice of veneer is up to you, so you could choose a less "bling-y" veneer that better suits your taste. Thing is, I would have paid exactly the same for a less bling-y veneer, so why wouldn't I choose something that is beautiful to look at even if it wasn't also a functional piece of audio equipment?

I'll just add that I was taken aback by the number of my friends who could care less about audio who were blown away by the pics I posted of the table as a work of art. Wasn't expecting that at all and I think it shows that others appreciate the beauty of what Chris does, perhaps more than the audio community itself.

I've always been of the opinion that there's no reason something can't look AND sound nice.

Cucumber seems to believe that paying any attention to aesthetics must take away from the sonics of a piece of equipment. I say it's not a zero sum game. I'm just not able to comment on the sonics yet.

That said, Art Dudley is one of the few who have been able to live with both approaches and he raved about the AF table. I'm not saying that he is the final word at all. Just that he's one of the few qualified to pass any judgement on the strengths/weaknesses of both approaches.

kev313 said:

Ok ok ok. Let's talk about the aesthetics. Beautiful work. Much respect to the designer for the skill to put this together. Maybe it's me, but I find his tables to be a little bling-y for my taste. I don't have a problem with "look at me design," but there is just something about the shiny finish, wide multi colored grain and chrome looking arm and platter that, taken together, is too much for me. Beautiful, in its way, but not for me.


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One last thing... Chris can also do matte finishes if that's the main thing making his tables feel bling-y.

If you're ever in the Bay Area and want to hear how his approach sounds in a Shindo system, hit me up.

I trust Art's opinion. That's pretty interesting. Enjoy the table!


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I said Chris is no Ken and I stand by that. It's nice if it looks good. But sound is what matters. You said he is the new Ken before let you even turned the player on. That makes it a foolish comment to me.