More D'Yquem Problems

**NOLG4EVR** · August 23, 2014, 01:26 AM

My issues with Shindo D'Yquem amps continue. Tonight I attempted to turn my amp on and within 30-40 seconds it just died. No power at all. I have had many tube failures over the course of my ownership of these great sounding amp's but now am pretty much fed up.

It seems about every dozen or so times I go to power these up something bad happens. So far bad tubes have been the supposed cause of the amp failures. This time it appears to be the fuse as the tubes seemed ok upon power up.

After a record amount of Gold Lion 300b tube failures and now what appears to be a fuse issue I would have to think maybe this amp design is flawed. I have not heard of many tube issues with other Shindo amps so the D'Yquem may be unique in it's unreliability.

As much as I love the Shindo sound the frustration and anger with these amp's have created a situation where the tolerance of not knowing if your gear will work now far outweighs the sound quality.

Change is in my future.

**Paul** · August 23, 2014, 01:48 AM

I'm so sorry to hear that. However one of MC275 was doing the same thing to me ( failure 3 times with KT88nd the 5 fuses were blown ) some how since then no more problem. I guess it could be just bad luck. Well what do I know.

**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by NOLG4EVR

My issues with Shindo D'Yquem amps continue. Tonight I attempted to turn my amp on and within 30-40 seconds it just died. No power at all. I have had many tube failures over the course of my ownership of these great sounding amp's but now am pretty much fed up.

It seems about every dozen or so times I go to power these up something bad happens. So far bad tubes have been the supposed cause of the amp failures. This time it appears to be the fuse as the tubes seemed ok upon power up.

After a record amount of Gold Lion 300b tube failures and now what appears to be a fuse issue I would have to think maybe this amp design is flawed. I have not heard of many tube issues with other Shindo amps so the D'Yquem may be unique in it's unreliability.

As much as I love the Shindo sound the frustration and anger with these amp's have created a situation where the tolerance of not knowing if your gear will work now far outweighs the sound quality.

Change is in my future.

Hi JJ. Sorry to read this.
Do not take the decision to part from them just because of a fuse after some tube failures. I had one of the fuse of one of my CCQ blow away 2 months ago. Fuses are here to blow and that is good when they do.
Many things can happen when you power on a tube amplifier.
Unfortunately our domestic AC current can be of very poor quality during very short time. You want the fuse to blow when this happens ! Do not blame your amp. Blame your AC company provider !

But I would still test your the tubes just to be sure. It could be a tube getting bad. Moreover, did you recheck the bias about 100 hours after changing the last 300B's ? If the bias changed and was not adjusted, you can have there an other reason for a fuse blow.

As many said before, tubes are by nature unreliable. They compensate this by sound quality. There is a price to pay for every thing in this world.

There cannot be any "design flaw" in your amps. Because they were made by one of the best tube circuit design experts in the world. Would you question a simple multiplication made by a Fields Medal mathematician ? Are you kidding ??

Now, the most reliable tubes on earth have your first name on them: JJ.
Please try them if it appears again that one GL is faulty. And be sure to set the bias correctly and recheck it after 50 / 100 hours.
Good luck buddy !

**NOLG4EVR** · August 23, 2014, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Hi JJ. Sorry to read this.
Do not take the decision to part from them just because of a fuse after some tube failures. I had one of the fuse of one of my CCQ blow away 2 months ago. Fuses are here to blow and that is good when they do.
Many things can happen when you power on a tube amplifier.
Unfortunately our domestic AC current can be of very poor quality during very short time. You want the fuse to blow when this happens ! Do not blame your amp. Blame your AC company provider !

But I would still test your the tubes just to be sure. It could be a tube getting bad. Moreover, did you recheck the bias about 100 hours after changing the last 300B's ? If the bias changed and was not adjusted, you can have there an other reason for a fuse blow.

As many said before, tubes are by nature unreliable. They compensate this by sound quality. There is a price to pay for every thing in this world.

There cannot be any "design flaw" in your amps. Because they were made by one of the best tube circuit design experts in the world. Would you question a simple multiplication made by a Fields Medal mathematician ? Are you kidding ??

Now, the most reliable tubes on earth have your first name on them: JJ.
Please try them if it appears again that one GL is faulty. And be sure to set the bias correctly and recheck it after 50 / 100 hours.
Good luck buddy !

Will do. Thanks Jerome. I am just so frustrated as every dozen or so times I turn these amps on they fail. Maybe I should try the JJ tubes. I just am hesitant to install tubes that were not originally supplied with the amps.

Whatever the issue is it really takes the fun out of just switching on your gear and relaxing to some good tunes. Now I just stress every time I turn it on to see if it works. iPod?? Maybe soon.

**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by NOLG4EVR

Will do. Thanks Jerome. I am just so frustrated as every dozen or so times I turn these amps on they fail. Maybe I should try the JJ tubes. I just am hesitant to install tubes that were not originally supplied with the amps.

Whatever the issue is it really takes the fun out of just switching on your gear and relaxing to some good tunes. Now I just stress every time I turn it on to see if it works. iPod?? Maybe soon.

I understand.
You should not be too worried in putting other tubes. Great tube designs do not really care so much about various tubes. You'll get very small differences in sound imho between GL and JJ. ( Of course, WE or Cetron may be clearly better but you cannot find them !) But with JJ you will have a much higher reliability.
Nagra uses 300B JJ tubes in their 300B amp and 300B integrated. And they both sound really fabulous.

**NOLG4EVR** · August 23, 2014, 02:44 AM

I will try them. Nothing to lose at this point. Thanks for the advice.

**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by NOLG4EVR

I will try them. Nothing to lose at this point. Thanks for the advice.

As I said, they wear your name. That's a sign !

**Petro85** · August 23, 2014, 07:30 AM

just curious to what your dealer or shindo had to say about it?? did you buy them used or new? this should not be happening, and buying more tubes and fuses to try to fix the problem is not what you should be doing. i had a similar problem with a BAT amp. the one that i bought used was perfect and ran beautifully. the one bought new was a nitemare and every time i turned it on the same anxiety over what tubes or fuses were going to blow. after 3 trips back to Bat and 6 months of headaches i finally got it fixed and it was something small and stupid they kept over looking. once it worked properly i sold it immediately .
it should go back to the factory and get fixed properly , especially for the amt of money you laid out for them. good luck and let us know how you remedy the problem.

**mep** · August 23, 2014, 09:48 AM

Any amp that was this unreliable I would have dumped faster than a used prophylactic. This is supposed to be about a hobby that is fun and relaxing and not one where you sweat bullets every time you power your amp on. You have either had an incredible run of bad tubes or it's simply a defective design or a defective unit. You have already come to that conclusion and I agree with you.

**dlb2** · August 23, 2014, 10:39 AM

For the money spent on these amps they need to go back to the dealer and have them sort it out and give you a loaner until fixed. Swapping out all these tubes and fuses to have them continuously blow is BS.

**Kt77** · August 23, 2014, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by dlb2

For the money spent on these amps they need to go back to the dealer and have them sort it out and give you a loaner until fixed. Swapping out all these tubes and fuses to have them continuously blow is BS.

+2.

BS is BS, and at their cost you should expect something more reliable. And I adore the Shindo sound more then any tube gear I've heard to date, but this seems freaking crazy to me, if all else fails?, I'd find a very good technician like Michael Samra over on AA, would fixed my beloved EL84 Integrated along with an ex-friends Sophia Electric 126S and now both are working up to par, without a hiccup to say the least.

But there's no way in hell, I'd just be writing this off, and it would've been sent back after the second incident. Good luck with this matter, but it saddens me to hear/see topics like this. But tube components do have their problems after all, and seem to need that much more attention compared to solid state - trade offs I know, but this is one of the main reasons I'm looking for a solid state backup, as one never knows..........

**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 11:18 AM

I wonder what JH will recommend.

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**Mike** · August 23, 2014, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

I wonder what JH will recommend.

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Buy more Shindo worthy speakers.

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**blackdog** · August 23, 2014, 12:08 PM

I certainly agree with others, that there may be an issue with the amp. It should get looked just to be safe.
But I suspect you will find the problem is with the Gold Lion 300B's. To date they are the most unreliable 300B out there. I've had bad ones right out of the box.
Had the same problem with Gold Lion KT88's a couple of years ago. Turned out to be a QC problem, and once sorted out no problems since. This 300B is relatively new on the market and I think there maybe some production issues.

**KenSea** · August 23, 2014, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by NOLG4EVR

My issues with Shindo D'Yquem amps continue. Tonight I attempted to turn my amp on and within 30-40 seconds it just died. No power at all. I have had many tube failures over the course of my ownership of these great sounding amp's but now am pretty much fed up.

It seems about every dozen or so times I go to power these up something bad happens. So far bad tubes have been the supposed cause of the amp failures. This time it appears to be the fuse as the tubes seemed ok upon power up.

After a record amount of Gold Lion 300b tube failures and now what appears to be a fuse issue I would have to think maybe this amp design is flawed. I have not heard of many tube issues with other Shindo amps so the D'Yquem may be unique in it's unreliability.

As much as I love the Shindo sound the frustration and anger with these amp's have created a situation where the tolerance of not knowing if your gear will work now far outweighs the sound quality.

Change is in my future.

Modern tubes just arent the same quality of the 50/60's tubes..........Sorry to hear about your problems . Maybe a solid state amp with your preamp......D'Augstino makes a wonder solid state amp. I have thought about this myself.

**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by KenSea

Modern tubes just arent the same quality of the 50/60's tubes..........Sorry to hear about your problems . Maybe a solid state amp with your preamp......D'augstino males a wonder solid state amp.

I cannot believe that you are suggesting a SS amp to a Shindo amp owner !

I am not saying that the Dag is not a heluva of an amp, but still, JJ. loves Shindo.
There will be a solution to this problem. We are talking here about state of the art tube amplifiers.
One does not replace a Lamborghini by a Mercedes Sedan !

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**KenSea** · August 23, 2014, 12:58 PM

You allowed to have your opinion as I am sure you have tried the D'Austino, right?
Yes I use tubes too but one needs to keep their mind open and sometimes whats best for you is not best for all. So thank you for your opinion. After all you own Harbeth and must be a man of great taste and knowlege

**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 01:09 PM

All the Krell amps that I listened too made my ears bleeding so I did not dare to listen to the d'Ag....:lmao:

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**KenSea** · August 23, 2014, 01:13 PM

I will second that too, High end customers and high end product deserves the very best of service. Which I know Jonathan agrees too.

**KenSea** · August 23, 2014, 01:17 PM

Point proven you might listen before you speak and actually personally I am not a wilson fan but I have to say I had never heard them so good untill i heard them with D'Austino.....just a thought.

**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by KenSea

Point proven you might listen before you speak and actually personally I am not a wilson fan but I have to say I had never heard them so good untill i heard them with D'Austino.....just a thought.

So you should listen to them with Shindo !

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**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 01:21 PM

Once again, I did not say that the D'Ag is not a terrific amp. I said that compared to Shindo, it is like apples and oranges. Would you recommend Magico speakers to a fan of Quads ESL 57 's ??

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**XV-1** · August 23, 2014, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

All the Krell amps that I listened too made my ears bleeding so I did not dare to listen to the d'Ag....:lmao:

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Hi Jerome

D'agostino amp sounds Nothing like a Krell amp. I also disliked Krell. Dag has soul. Only ss amp I can live with.

Remember my friend, once upon a time you did not care for Wilson

If you get the chance to hear a Dag in your system, jump. Sounds great with tube and ss pre amps - very natural sound.

Love and happiness
Shane

**KenSea** · August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM

But once again, have you heard the amp? Do you know this as truth? Internet forum Kings have a way of knowing everything without even listening first. It may not be yours or mine cup of tea or it may be. Without listen you KNOW nothing, except your own preconceived notions
As far as the Maggie vs Quad issure some people want more foundation than the quad or LS3/5a can offer, Everyone has different needs and what satisfies one doesnt others and thats why there are some many designs and brands out there.I am not question your choice of reality but you jump to facts before having explored them. Your educated man, this comes from the same structure as any investagation

**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by XV-1

Hi Jerome

D'agostino amp sounds Nothing like a Krell amp. I also disliked Krell. Dag has soul. Only ss amp I can live with.

Remember my friend, once upon a time you did not care for Wilson

If you get the chance to hear a Day in your system, jump. Sounds great with tube and as per amps

Love and happiness
Shane

Shane...

That was just a joke. The D'Ags received enough praise everywhere. It speaks for itself.
Anyway I am not trying / experimenting anything else. I am very happy "as is".

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**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by KenSea

But once again, have you heard the amp? Do you know this as truth? Internet forum Kings have a way of knowing everything without even listening first. It may not be yours or mine cup of tea or it may be. Without listen you KNOW nothing, except your own preconceived notions
As far as the Maggie vs Quad issure some people want more foundation than the quad or LS3/5a can offer, Everyone has different needs and what satisfies one doesnt others and thats why there are some many designs and brands out there.I am not question your choice of reality but you jump to facts before having explored them. Your educated man, this comes from the same structure as any investagation

Ok calm down.
I was just joking about this suggestion. But you are right. JJ should try a SS amp, and the D'Ag is surely one of the best ever made.
Probably perfect choice with the DeVore O96 too by the way.

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**XV-1** · August 23, 2014, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Shane...

That was just a joke. The D'Ags received enough praise everywhere. It speaks for itself.
Anyway I am not trying / experimenting anything else. I am very happy "as is".

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That is kool Jerome

Always good to keep up the friendly banter.

BTW, what is your main cartridge you are using with your wonderful turntable these days?

**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by XV-1

That is kool Jerome

Always good to keep up the friendly banter.

BTW, what is your main cartridge you are using with your wonderful turntable these days?

Lyra Delos and A23 Hommage T2 SUT or Ortofon SPU Classic GE MKII direct in the MC of my preamp.

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**mep** · August 23, 2014, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

All the Krell amps that I listened too made my ears bleeding so I did not dare to listen to the d'Ag....:lmao:

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The Krell KSA-250 is anything but an amp that makes your ears bleed. If anything, it's a touch on the soft side. I owned one for a couple of years and it served me well.

**XV-1** · August 23, 2014, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Lyra Delos and A23 Hommage T2 SUT or Ortofon SPU Classic GE MKII direct in the MC of my preamp.

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Beautiful. I think you would love the Etna

**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by XV-1

Beautiful. I think you would love the Etna

Shane, too expensive for me !

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**Cucumber_jones** · August 23, 2014, 02:21 PM

Any word from JH yet? I dream about these amps. Could very well be a bad bunch of tubes.

**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Cucumber_jones

Any word from JH yet? I dream about these amps. Could very well be a bad bunch of tubes.

Bad tubes or a AC problem ?

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**NOLG4EVR** · August 23, 2014, 02:31 PM

Just to let you all know the extent and background of my issues with the D'Yquem's. This is my second pair of these amps.

The first pair blew a tube the second time I turned them on. The amp was sent back to my dealer, checked out and tubes were replaced and re-biased.

The amp was sent back to me and about a week later it blew out another tube.

My dealer is absolutely amazing and they agreed to order me a new pair and take the original pair back.

After installing the new pair I got about a dozen uses out of the amp's before the tubes blew. Again, replaced the tubes and fuse, re-biased the amp.

Now about another dozen uses later the other amp has blown a fuse and possibly the tubes as well.

I realize tubes are sensitive and prone to failure but this is really unusual to have this many problems with amps that really don't get used all that often.

I have owned tube amps of other brands and never experienced this many tube failures. I know of many Shindo owners of other models that have never had a tube failure in years of heavy use.

I am certainly not a technical expert but maybe one of the more dependable Shindo amps with different tubes will be my solution.

Very frustrating to wonder every time you turn on your gear if it will work.

**NOLG4EVR** · August 23, 2014, 02:35 PM

I forgot to mention I even had an electrician come to the house to check my power. The wiring is less than ten years old and tested properly so no power issues.

**dlb2** · August 23, 2014, 02:42 PM

Thanks for the added info JJ. I was wondering if it was an electrical issue in the house. If it were me I would seriously consider a different amp in the line.

**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 02:45 PM

I would be very curious to know how many pairs are in used worldwide.
What are the numbers of yours ?

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**NOLG4EVR** · August 23, 2014, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by dlb2

Thanks for the added info JJ. I was wondering if it was an electrical issue in the house. If it were me I would seriously consider a different amp in the line.

As a matter of fact I just had that discussion with my dealer. They are willing to do whatever it takes to make me happy, even taking these back and getting me a different model.

We talked about possibly the GM 70's. I have not heard them but all owners of them have nothing but good things to say. Seem to be very reliable as well.

**KenSea** · August 23, 2014, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by NOLG4EVR

As a matter of fact I just had that discussion with my dealer. They are willing to do whatever it takes to make me happy, even taking these back and getting me a different model.

We talked about possibly the GM 70's. I have not heard them but all owners of them have nothing but good things to say. Seem to be very reliable as well.

Oh my, i would die for the GM70'S OR THE 300b limited..............mmmmmm. mmmmmmmmmm

**NOLG4EVR** · August 23, 2014, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

I would be very curious to know how many pairs are in used worldwide.
What are the numbers of yours ?

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My first pair were serial numbers 13 and 14. My new pair are 19 and 20 so as of a few moths ago ten pairs worldwide and I have owned two of them. I heard a couple more pairs have been sold since so maybe twelve pairs have been produced so far.

They were introduced in the lineup about two years ago and I believe are the first parallel SET for Shindo. Not positive about that. Maybe upon powering up an unequal signal is sent thus blowing out a tube. Who knows? Not me for sure.

**Mike** · August 23, 2014, 03:38 PM

Does anyone have a link to independently tested impedance curve of the O/96's?

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**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 04:07 PM

Here you go Boss :
http://www.stereophile.com/content/d...r-measurements

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**Jerome W** · August 23, 2014, 04:10 PM

Ok so that makes about 10 other owners. If there was a design flaw we would know it I guess.
My guess : very very bad luck with tubes.
I understand why you are so fed up.
A pair of GM70 may be the way to go.

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**Mike** · August 23, 2014, 04:16 PM

Thanks Jerome.

When I compare the impedance curves of the Tannoy's (96db by the way) to the Devore (91db), its a bit of a head scratcher to me. The Devore has some wild swings above 8ohms and quite a bit is less efficient.

Tannoy:
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1408824992.486976.jpg

Devore:
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1408825000.803597.jpg

I'm wondering if the OP's Devore's might truly not be the best match for the D'Yquem's? Maybe?

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**NOLG4EVR** · August 23, 2014, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Ok so that makes about 10 other owners. If there was a design flaw we would know it I guess.
My guess : very very bad luck with tubes.
I understand why you are so fed up.
A pair of GM70 may be the way to go.

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Not necessarily would we know. I doubt they would publicize that kind of information. I would be curious to know if any other D'Yquem owners have had any tube issues.

**mep** · August 23, 2014, 06:03 PM

You have to be leery about a Japanese man giving all of his products French names.

**NOLG4EVR** · August 23, 2014, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by mep

You have to be leery about a Japanese man giving all of his products French names.

He was a wine connoisseur. A man after my own heart.

**mep** · August 23, 2014, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by NOLG4EVR

He was a wine connoisseur. A man after my own heart.

When somebody can make wine taste like beer, I'm all in.

**Garth** · August 23, 2014, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by NOLG4EVR

My issues with Shindo D'Yquem amps continue. Tonight I attempted to turn my amp on and within 30-40 seconds it just died. No power at all. I have had many tube failures over the course of my ownership of these great sounding amp's but now am pretty much fed up.

It seems about every dozen or so times I go to power these up something bad happens. So far bad tubes have been the supposed cause of the amp failures. This time it appears to be the fuse as the tubes seemed ok upon power up.

After a record amount of Gold Lion 300b tube failures and now what appears to be a fuse issue I would have to think maybe this amp design is flawed. I have not heard of many tube issues with other Shindo amps so the D'Yquem may be unique in it's unreliability.

As much as I love the Shindo sound the frustration and anger with these amp's have created a situation where the tolerance of not knowing if your gear will work now far outweighs the sound quality.

Change is in my future.

I had a lot of problems over the years the whole nine yards of break downs . I found a solution solid state. If you buy good solid state it sounds great and switching it on never feels like Russian Roulette with your wallet always the loser. Tubes sound great when they work. Some people have little to no problems then their is you and me.

**mep** · August 23, 2014, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Garth

I had a lot of problems over the years the whole nine yards of break downs . I found a solution solid state. If you buy good solid state it sounds great and switching it on never feels like Russian Roulette with your wallet always the loser. Tubes sound great when they work. Some people have little to no problems then their is you and me.

I have been a dyed in the wool tube lover my entire life. I went through a bad spell with my tube gear being a gigantic pain in my ass and I got mad and sold it and went SS for awhile. I had a Krell KRC-HR preamp (kick-ass by the way) and Krell KSA-250 amp. I lived with it happily for a couple of years and it was truly a joy to know that I could always expect my gear to work. And then I reviewed a pair of Raven monoblock tube amps and a Raven preamp and I remembered why I loved tubes so much in the first place. I sold all of my Krell gear (except for my KPE Ref phono stage with outboard power supply-PM if you want to buy it) and bought an ARC Ref 5SE and ARC Ref 75 and I couldn't be happier with my decision. These are the two ARC pieces I heard in Carl's room at RMAF 2012 with his Nola speakers that I fell in love with. I bought the Nola KOs last March and I think I will see them before RMAF 2014.

The great thing about the Ref 75 is that it only uses a pair of KT-120 tubes per channel. It's so much easier to maintain a tube amp that uses a single pair of tubes per channel. Buying a pair of output tubes that are tightly matched is way easier than buying a quartet or octet of output tubes that will come close to the match you can get with a single pair. And none of that would matter if the Ref 75 didn't sound great, but it does. From what I have heard, the Ref 75 sounds even better if you use KT-150s. Based on my experience with the Raven amps, I don't doubt it.

Thread: More D'Yquem Problems