Thread: Horn speakers that mate well with Shindo and those to avoid

Originally Posted by Mike

I totally understand and appreciate the Shindo philosophy and approach. But, I don't think he has Shindo speakers now, so maybe he's looking for something different?


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Doesn't have to be Shindo. To me anyway. This is just my point of view but I think plenty of speakers fit the bill: phy-hp, A23, Western Electric, altec. Maybe early jbl. Single drivers from Stephens-Trusonic could be fun. Explore any of the many horns and drivers that aren't prepackaged modern systems - GIP and others.

Learn about the historically great systems and move from there. It's an aesthetic. It a process of embracing historical references in modern systems. Dropping a huge modern glossy horn system seems so....cheap by comparison. Too easy. Too gear flippy floppy.

Again, this is just my approach to Shindo. It's not really my approach to hifi. Just Shindo. And it's infinitely more satisfying to me.

Originally Posted by Mike

With older horn systems comes older horn problems. Keep that in mind. With mine, I get NONE of that and if you hear what I'm hearing, you would be amazed. I've heard no old horn speaker (at least one that can fit in a normal room), that comes close.

But hopefully the OP will chime in.


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Until the next one comes out.

Western Electric 555 still considered the king by many and basically on v1, in audiophile speak, for, what, 80 years?

I'm sure your speakers sound great, Mike. As I said, the appeal of the approach isn't limited to sound (although really there is a type of sound that IS hard to get with new speakers and I'm sure is related to some kind of measurable distortions ) and it isn't everyone's .... cup of tea.

The problem seems that Shindo Labs has gone a long way from studying, copying and then modifying old gear to his standards and philosophy of a sound create producer.
Look at this huge mileage he has gone by starting with his first amps and circuits, which were at the core old tube designs from the golden era of tube audio design from which he learned and studied to build gear not in series, but with small and greater mods to each unit within a series. It was a steady learning process just by building and selling gears. He must have build hundreds of different designs and froom that learning process he went towards to the newer generation of gear until today.
Of course, not many can do this and are capable to came that far along the road.
His audible memory must have been overloaded with acoustical impressions of gear designs.
So to describe in forums what impressions were given by a specific gear and audio chain is like watching cooking shows without ever have the opportunity to smell and taste those menus.
Shindo himself always refused to explain the connections between technical descriptions of schematics and the audible sound differences they create. He just said "listen".
So to tell someone the technical differences of, for e.g. WE 555 and WE 594A, on a forum is possible, but to smell and hear the differences in one given setup is not.
Every given speaker setup of high quality (and that is just a term for the technical conditions, not one synonym to the nowadays often used high-end term, of which most of the products, in a musical sense, are the real opposite of either musical nor highest quality components) is just like a magnifying glass made from different glass qualities. But whom to describe the differences in glass qualities with words?
Some people had refused to audio forums, because its fruitless to correspond over audio. Conversations on a technical level are possible, but not on a truly relevant audible hear and smell level.
So whats the acoustical and audible difference between a Mirrorphonic and a Latour system? Could someone please describe, before there were given hints to aquire something new and different?
And if so, please comment on which incarnation of the speakers this description refers to.

Originally Posted by Walter

The problem seems that Shindo Labs has gone a long way from studying, copying and then modifying old gear to his standards and philosophy of a sound create producer.
Look at this huge mileage he has gone by starting with his first amps and circuits, which were at the core old tube designs from the golden era of tube audio design from which he learned and studied to build gear not in series, but with small and greater mods to each unit within a series. It was a steady learning process just by building and selling gears. He must have build hundreds of different designs and froom that learning process he went towards to the newer generation of gear until today.
Of course, not many can do this and are capable to came that far along the road.
His audible memory must have been overloaded with acoustical impressions of gear designs.
So to describe in forums what impressions were given by a specific gear and audio chain is like watching cooking shows without ever have the opportunity to smell and taste those menus.
Shindo himself always refused to explain the connections between technical descriptions of schematics and the audible sound differences they create. He just said "listen".
So to tell someone the technical differences of, for e.g. WE 555 and WE 594A, on a forum is possible, but to smell and hear the differences in one given setup is not.
Every given speaker setup of high quality (and that is just a term for the technical conditions, not one synonym to the nowadays often used high-end term, of which most of the products, in a musical sense, are the real opposite of either musical nor highest quality components) is just like a magnifying glass made from different glass qualities. But whom to describe the differences in glass qualities with words?
Some people had refused to audio forums, because its fruitless to correspond over audio. Conversations on a technical level are possible, but not on a truly relevant audible hear and smell level.
So whats the acoustical and audible difference between a Mirrorphonic and a Latour system? Could someone please describe, before there were given hints to aquire something new and different?
And if so, please comment on which incarnation of the speakers this description refers to.

I cannot answer the question, but many very good points raised in your post. Thank you.

One question: Do you really see it as a "problem" that Shindo's work evolved from the earlier designs. I like the evolution of the work without having explicit reference to "version 2," "Mk. 3" etc. Everything seems unique but related and equally worthy of exploration without reference to an absolute. I'd love to have more experience with the vintage Shindo.

Life is never a problem, its a mystery.
And so is evolution of art. It should simply happen.
If someone only knows the actual Petrus, he knows a single state of this work. That doesnt make the component unlistenable, but to know more stages of evolution can be helpful in delivering context.
Yes, there is, has and probably never will be an absolute audio component which delivers the truth and only the truth. There can only be different layers of a sound creation more and more be evolved.
Thats the truth with Shindos work.
Its like driving a Mercedes from 1950 and today. Same brand, different car.

My Vote for WE Diphonic. That system can kick butts and at the same time sounds phenomenal.

Originally Posted by Bongo

Sounds like kev313 is our resident expert on building horn speaker systems. I too considered assembling a horn system, but I bailed on that idea after realizing I'd be forced to do math.

Still, I like to tinker. I got intrigued the Townshend super tweeters that Stephen put on his Petite Latours. It was simple enough to plop a pair of Fostex T90A super tweeters and capacitors (and some of that surplus WE wire) on my Shindo 604's. They sound a bit hot right now, so I ordered a cheap pair of attenuators. I'm just playing, but I like what's happening. Sparkle and detail in spades.

Brian, is the idea to replace the 604's? If so, what sonic experience do you seek, other than the proverbial white whale? Have you considered open baffle designs? People who heard them seem to like Nelson Pass' open baffle Lowther with slot loaded woofer - it seems like a lower cost "paved path" option for DIY. I also like the look of Haigner speaker designs. I contacted David Haigner, and the cost is on par with FC Latours and beyond. http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2011/...aignercom.html http://www.haigner.com He's a professional sound system designer that does his own speakers in very low volume. Thomas Mayer, a noted tube amp designer, is one of David's fans, and I'm sure that Haigner could design a system with the right impedance and sensitivity for Shindo amps. And, like most of us, I'd love to hear the A23 Hommage 22A system.

Perfect! The Absolute Sound.

Those guys in the boat keep trying the latest state of the art harpoons.


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Originally Posted by Bongo

Sounds like kev313 is our resident expert on building horn speaker systems. I too considered assembling a horn system, but I bailed on that idea after realizing I'd be forced to do math.

Still, I like to tinker. I got intrigued the Townshend super tweeters that Stephen put on his Petite Latours. It was simple enough to plop a pair of Fostex T90A super tweeters and capacitors (and some of that surplus WE wire) on my Shindo 604's. They sound a bit hot right now, so I ordered a cheap pair of attenuators. I'm just playing, but I like what's happening. Sparkle and detail in spades.

Brian, is the idea to replace the 604's? If so, what sonic experience do you seek, other than the proverbial white whale? Have you considered open baffle designs? People who heard them seem to like Nelson Pass' open baffle Lowther with slot loaded woofer - it seems like a lower cost "paved path" option for DIY. I also like the look of Haigner speaker designs. I contacted David Haigner, and the cost is on par with FC Latours and beyond. http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2011/...aignercom.html http://www.haigner.com He's a professional sound system designer that does his own speakers in very low volume. Thomas Mayer, a noted tube amp designer, is one of David's fans, and I'm sure that Haigner could design a system with the right impedance and sensitivity for Shindo amps. And, like most of us, I'd love to hear the A23 Hommage 22A system.

Hey guys. Apologies, didn't get notified about all these posts. Glad to see some activity in this forum finally!

I love the Shindo sound. My only complaint about my current system is that it sometimes sounds grainy at the high volumes I like to listen at. Also, now that I've heard the level of realism my system can achieve, I can't help thinking that there are a few other levels to achieve. Music is the only thing that really captivates me (aside from the ladies). Life is short and I wanna see how far I can push the envelope of enjoyment.

Ive heard the Latour's, so I know there's another level. But it's gonna take me most of this year to save up for them. In the meantime, I'm also very interested in the work that some of the other builders using similar philosophies as Shindo are creating.

I'd absolutely be one of these crazy Asian dudes with the bass horn built into the house if I could. Maybe one day I will. But Kev is right in that I'm probably more inclined to look at builders using bespoke approaches over more modern manufacturing techniques, though I'm not religious about it.

Of course, the biggest challenge with these bespoke Western Electric disciple approaches is, aside from cost, the ability to hear the speakers in my system. My working assumption is that as long as the speaker is a good electrical match with a similar philosophical approach, the Shindo sound will still come through.

The builders I'm most interested in evaluating are Oswald's Mill and the stuff Jefferey Jackson and friends are doing. Both groups seem to share a philosophical approach in line with Shindo. Of course, both are also significantly more expensive options too. Hard to say if they are onto something better or just different until I get a chance to hear them in person.

Ill look ion into the speakers you mentioned though. I enjoy learning about various approaches, even if I ultimately stick with the all Shindo approach for now.

I strongly urge you to brew a pot of coffee, head to the Klipsch forum, and spend the afternoon learning everything you can about the Jubilee. A semi custom product, but Roy D. at Klipsch can work you through putting one together if interested. A world class solution at under 10k


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This WE 16a with these horn woofers is for sale. GIP drivers. This is possibly the best system anyone will ever had. I have heard this without the woofers, so will visit hon again. He has got another pair of WEs http://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/ite...id=4296427638&

Originally Posted by kev313

I strongly urge you to brew a pot of coffee, head to the Klipsch forum, and spend the afternoon learning everything you can about the Jubilee. A semi custom product, but Roy D. at Klipsch can work you through putting one together if interested. A world class solution at under 10k


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Hi which city can I listen to these in

I have heard various Haighner horns btw

Originally Posted by Walter

My Vote for WE Diphonic. That system can kick butts and at the same time sounds phenomenal.

Where can I listen to the Diphonic? Are these like Silbatone with GIP drivers?

Originally Posted by bonzo

Hi which city can I listen to these in

Several. Many of the Klipsch members who've built them would probably have a fellow forum member over for a listen.


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Originally Posted by bonzo

This WE 16a with these horn woofers is for sale. GIP drivers. This is possibly the best system anyone will ever had. I have heard this without the woofers, so will visit hon again. He has got another pair of WEs http://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/ite...id=4296427638&

I'd definitely be down to build a system
like this. Even after using Google Traslate, I'm not 100% clear what is included here. Seems like one 16a horn with the two other horns and all GIP drivers for 35k euros. But then it says "price per horn system", so does that mean that all of this is one system or that each horn is 35k euros?

The translation:

Description: our showroom with me both:
Speaker System Western Electric 16A and Western Electric 30154-D replica horns each with GIP 555 and GIP 597 field coil drivers. System price per horn system without a subwoofer.
By appointment.


Country: Germany (04349)
Payment Methods: Cash on collection, transfer,
Delivery options:

Hi I think the price is for the big 16a horn, with GIP drivers, but without the woofers.

Originally Posted by bonzo

Hi I think the price is for the big 16a horn, with GIP drivers, but without the woofers.

I don't think so. On second reading, it pretty clearly says that it is both the 16A and the 30154-D and also lists two different drivers.

Originally Posted by Bongo

Before I bought the 604's, I also considered the Tune Audio Anima and did contact Manolis Proestakis. The 6.3 ohm minimum impedance killed my interest.

How come?

A general FYI to my Shindo friends, as detailed in the for sale section, I'm considering selling my field coil 604s and am entertaining offers.


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How come?

Walter, I'm moving. It's explained in the f/s post.


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But you are already planning for a new journey? Whats the destination this time?