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  1. #51
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Kev - any shots of the inside of the Shindo speakers?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Mike, the pic shown on Kev's post is done by Jeff Day's pic - it only shows as high-frequency crossover—located in the bottom front of the loudspeaker—is to allow the high-frequency information from the music signal to pass through to the high-frequency compression horn driver unit, while filtering out the low-frequency information.

    other one is role of the low-frequency crossover—located in the top of the cabinet above the Dual Concentric™ driver—is to allow the low-frequency information from the music signal to pass through to the fifteen-inch direct radiating low frequency driver while filtering out the high frequency information.( again Jeff's pic )



    Also my Westminster GR is different cross over than Jeff's previous version. here is new one.





    Yes I also like to see inside of shindo speakers as well.
    Paul

  2. #52

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    I can understand why the Shindo sound might not appeal to some. I can also understand the underlying psychological resistance to a single brand system approach. Let's face it, the people attracted to this hobby are mostly of above average intelligence (or think of themselves that way), want something unique to their ears, and like to try different combinations.

    A system approach kinda eliminates the thinking and tweaking part of the hobby. That can be hard for some to accept, particularly if they've invested in other stuff and mostly enjoy what they've built. You don't even roll the tubes in a Shindo!

    It's not a criticism, just an observation of the type-A personalities (myself included) who are attracted to this hobby. To each his own, right?

    For me personally, I don't want to take the time to audition everything under the sun trying to find the one combination that does everything I want it to do. I'm not Don Quixote dreaming the never-ending impossible dream. I'd rather spend my time seeking out good music.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think that the Shindo system I'm putting together compromises much. But even if it isn't perfect, I think I can build once and be very happy for a decade or so before I start itching to try some other approach.

    Criticism regarding price/value is probably fair, even if one hasn't heard a system like this. Let's face it, HiFi is art and art is subjective. Why is one Picaso more valuable than another? Who cares? It's worth what someone is willing to pay to get it. That said, good luck to anyone trying to re-sell your DIY version of this speaker.

  3. #53

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Mike, the pic shown on Kev's post is done by Jeff Day's pic - it only shows as high-frequency crossover—located in the bottom front of the loudspeaker—is to allow the high-frequency information from the music signal to pass through to the high-frequency compression horn driver unit, while filtering out the low-frequency information.

    other one is he role of the low-frequency crossover—located in the top of the cabinet above the Dual ConcentricAny Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here? driver—is to allow the low-frequency information from the music signal to pass through to the fifteen-inch direct radiating low frequency driver while filtering out the high frequency information.( again Jeff's pic )



    Also my Westminster GR is different cross over than Jeff's previous version. here is new one.





    Yes I also like to see inside of shindo speakers as well.
    Why do you want to see the inside of a Shindo speaker?

  4. #54
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by kev313 View Post
    Why do you want to see the inside of a Shindo speaker?
    I'm curious as to what makes them different from Altec 604's. For $34,000, its a fair question.

    Next time I visit CA, I will definitely give them a listen.


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  5. #55
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by kev313 View Post
    Why do you want to see the inside of a Shindo speaker?
    Never mind.
    Paul

  6. #56
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Mike, the pic shown on Kev's post is done by Jeff Day's pic - it only shows as high-frequency crossover—located in the bottom front of the loudspeaker—is to allow the high-frequency information from the music signal to pass through to the high-frequency compression horn driver unit, while filtering out the low-frequency information.

    other one is role of the low-frequency crossover—located in the top of the cabinet above the Dual Concentric™ driver—is to allow the low-frequency information from the music signal to pass through to the fifteen-inch direct radiating low frequency driver while filtering out the high frequency information.( again Jeff's pic )



    Also my Westminster GR is different cross over than Jeff's previous version. here is new one.





    Yes I also like to see inside of shindo speakers as well.
    that is very cool Paul, which level do you sleep on? lol. seriously beautiful speakers.
    nuff said!!!
    Steve

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  7. #57

    Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Different from which altec 604? In what cabinet? With what type of crossover? The comparison is incomplete. For a pure value question, you could probably buy 604 drivers (maybe 2500 is going ebay rate for early 604), have cabinets built (2500 for similar cabinets), and buy a nice crossover for 1500? Maybe another 1000 to get it out together? I have no idea. I'm making some of these numbers up. So a competent diy version is 1/5 the retail cost. Maybe competent. Ebay drivers, ebay crossover, cabinet of uncertain quality. Or x5 for a unit custom made by a family who has been doing it for decades and tuning it to match my electronics. Or plus 52.5k for the FC version. I'll take the FC version.

  8. #58
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Petro85 View Post
    that is very cool Paul, which level do you sleep on? lol. seriously beautiful speakers.
    nuff said!!!
    Thanks Steve. Sorry guys lets get back to original topic.
    Paul

  9. #59
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I'm curious as to what makes them different from Altec 604's. For $34,000, its a fair question.

    Next time I visit CA, I will definitely give them a listen.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    whoa...i didn't realize they were so dear. i've got to make it over to Matt's place when i'm in the area to hear what the fuss is about. I haven't had the pleasure of hearing a full-on 'tone imports' system.

  10. #60

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Petro85 View Post
    that is very cool Paul, which level do you sleep on? lol. seriously beautiful speakers.
    nuff said!!!
    "Nuff said"?! NOW you're talking like a true horny! That's what I'm talking bout. Get my Klipsch blood boiling and I'm going back to my Cornwalls!! Ha. Miss those Cornwalls sometimes... A simpler time. A different audio America.

  11. #61
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    whoa...i didn't realize they were so dear. i've got to make it over to Matt's place when i'm in the area to hear what the fuss is about. I haven't had the pleasure of hearing a full-on 'tone audio' system.
    Me too. I'm very curious. Shindo has pleasantly surprised me so far. So, let's see.


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  12. #62
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by kev313 View Post
    "Nuff said"?! NOW you're talking like a true horny! That's what I'm talking bout. Get my Klipsch blood boiling and I'm going back to my Cornwalls!! Ha. Miss those Cornwalls sometimes... A simpler time. A different audio America.
    i love the klipsch thing. had cornwalls too for a bit. the 3's. i would have loved to upgrade them and get a little more refinement out of the mid and tweeter. but wow could they bring the house down with drums and bass. as good of a speaker for rock and roll as most ive heard. ive often though about the diy cornscalas. what a bargain.
    im a woodworker and i can build a box, and a nice one at that. but i know nothing of crossovers and the electronics part.
    i like to see the insides of any speaker to learn the different ways to build them.
    Steve

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  13. #63

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I've wanted to love the O/96's ever since I first heard them....and when I hear them with something like Shelby Lynn Just A Little a Loving, I think "oh man, these sound sweet". Then I put on something complex and blah...

    As for Shindo and Devore, John said he uses lots of different amps at home - including SS amps which is what he likes to demo with. I can see the SS amps giving some control and needed dynamic punch to the O/96's.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Very interesting concept.

    Research and design a high efficiency, flat impedance curve box speaker to be displayed and shown with SS amps to really take control and showcase the dynamic punch of the design.

    A niche market audience for sure.
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  14. #64

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by NOLG4EVR View Post
    John would be surprised to hear that. He voiced the 0/96's with Shindo.

    We all have our opinions I guess.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I agree. Interesting opinion. Many people have heard the o96 Shindo combo (disclaimer: I'm not familiar with the speakers) and this is the first I've heard that the combo - or as mike put it, the speakers and the gear both individually and together - struggles with complex music. Both brands are fairly well known for their handling of dynamics and the textural complexity of music. This has been well documented by professional reviewers especially as it comes to Devores which have been reviewed quite a bit.

    Trying to bring accuracy to a subjective process is so difficult. Comparing this type of gear to systems with solid state amps will obviously result in vastly different experiences from which to draw your opinion. Struggles. Preferences. Accuracy. Specs. Recommendations. Bias. Backstory. Intrigue. Anger. Ego.

    Tomato. Tomahto.

  15. #65
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    Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    I believe this is John's listening room. Lots of different amps I see on the rack. Probably some pretty cool vintage ones too.






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  16. #66

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    True. Lots of info on the Monkeyhaus out there. This pic of John's rack comes from Stereophile. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1413906605.778492.jpg

  17. #67

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by kev313 View Post
    I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
    Don't "suppose" because it always is. Anyone who thinks the Shindo 604 speakers are beautiful might be married to a Russian wrestler and mistake her for a beauty queen. As the old saying goes, appearances can be deceiving and maybe there is much more beauty hidden under the surface than what we (meaning those that don't find these speakers to be outwardly physically attractive and rather look like something that came from a high school wood shop class from the 1960s ) can see.

    Quote Originally Posted by kev313 View Post
    To me, and to most Shindoists, music reproduction and system building is not an art, it is art.
    Now we are starting to sound like a religion. "What faith do you belong to?" "Oh, I'm a Shindoist."

    Quote Originally Posted by kev313 View Post
    One of my favorite pieces on this topic - by Herb R. And actually currently posted at Enjoy the Music - touches on this approach:

    "To be successful at building an amp or speakers, I maintain you must PICTURE, in your mind, how you will look and how you will feel playing discs. I mean how it will feel to put the disc on/in the player. I mean how you think you will look in the room lighting, standing in front of the player and between the speakers. I mean try to imagine how you will feel putting on the disc and sitting in the chair, dreaming and carrying on, in the new world you have created. This is your time machine, your sanctuary. This is your religion. You are the wizard, the movie director, the conductor, the mad scientist! When you create your own music system, you create you own new music culture. I really like the feel of playing 78s. It takes me somewhere."
    Man, this sounds just like something Harvey Rosenberg would have said! Where are my grunty diapers?

    The bottom line here is that the Shindo speakers don't have to please anyone but their owners. Whether they cost $300 or $30,000, as long as the person who shelled out the money is happy with them and feels they received good value for their money, everyone else can go pound sand. What I was interested in was how they were different than the original 604s installed in Altec 604 studio monitor boxes and did they sound better. I'm not sure if anyone has heard both versions.

  18. #68

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Don't "suppose" because it always is. Anyone who thinks the Shindo 604 speakers are beautiful might be married to a Russian wrestler and mistake her for a beauty queen. As the old saying goes, appearances can be deceiving and maybe there is much more beauty hidden under the surface than what we (meaning those that don't find these speakers to be outwardly physically attractive and rather look like something that came from a high school wood shop class from the 1960s ) can see.



    Now we are starting to sound like a religion. "What faith do you belong to?" "Oh, I'm a Shindoist."



    Man, this sounds just like something Harvey Rosenberg would have said! Where are my grunty diapers?

    The bottom line here is that the Shindo speakers don't have to please anyone but their owners. Whether they cost $300 or $30,000, as long as the person who shelled out the money is happy with them and feels they received good value for their money, everyone else can go pound sand. What I was interested in was how they were different than the original 604s installed in Altec 604 studio monitor boxes and did they sound better. I'm not sure if anyone has heard both versions.
    Actually, my bottom line is that Shindo owners don't have to please anyone else, but why quibble about details. To your last point, I have obviously heard my speakers (604 field coil), I have owned original 604 in various enclosures, but I have never listened to the Shindo 604 Alnico, so I cannot comment on the comparison.

    As Matt can attest, I was reluctant to go with the 604 based on my prior 604 diy experience and was leaning heavily towards the A23 Cinema Hommage. In the end, I went all in in the 604 and got a speaker that exceeded my expectations. So as to that comparison, I can represent that in my experience the field coil modification, supply, crossover etc make the speaker quite a bit different than a standard 604. Again, in your comparison, what 604 are you discussing? There are many many variations from original Altecs through current GPA models. All are quite different. What type of crossover? Original? DIY design? Which parts? These questions matter.

    As to the remainder of your points, is it a faith? Not quite, but it is a different way of thinking. I don't roll shiny boxes. I don't seek out more precision, accuracy, soundstage depth, height, width, bass. I don't chase the current flavor - D'Agostino, Job. I don't worry about the latest revision or model from Arc or Wilson. Nothing. I've found a house brand that suits me. I enjoy the Shindo sonics. Does that mean I will stay static? Probably not. I can move around within Shindo and enjoy the different flavors without worrying about chasing some sonic goal as I'm certain that the basic brand strengths and presentation will remain the same. I enjoy every Shindo piece that I have as an artistic expression by Shindo in an of itself and, in some respects, independent from the sound it produces. I enjoy the process of building a system from these components.

    Is that different that fretting about whether my old ARC amp can be upgraded to v2 to accept new tubes for greater !BASS SLAM!?

    Yes it is. This is not a controversial approach in many circles, but it has a history of very vocal opposition in American audio forums.

    Part of this, I suspect, was accurately pointed out by a poster above: most people who can afford this hobby don't like to be told that they are wrong and should "submit" to a system approach. Either that or they claim to enjoy the process of flipping gear and swinging from extreme to extreme on the sonic spectrum, never finding a home. Could be. I enjoyed that for a time. Not so much anymore.

    One final point...the bit about the speakers looking like something from a high school wood shop class in the 1960s. That's a pretty insulting thing to say on what everyone loves to represent as the forum that was specially designed to be friendlier than the self proclaimed friendliest audio forum. The fact of the matter is, yes, Shindo speakers do look like wooden boxes and, yes, many have spent over 60,000 to buy them. Obviously I could've had my pick of Wilson or Magico shiny modern speakers in this price range. I happen to find them quite beautiful, but my taste runs, I suppose to the mid century modern over the...well...whatever you would call Wilson. In any event, it bears pointing out that this design works well in many living environments, not unlike the older speaker designs that have inspired Shindo. In contrast, a room full of shiny Burmester components in a rack between many 60k modern speakers looks quite garish by comparison. To my eyes anyway.

    Hey, I suppose the Shindo approach inspires these types of witty criticism. That certainly was true in the last forum and it looks like nothing will change here. I would suggest that that ego of the posters is involved, but if I hold up the mirror I am no different. I think my approach is better than yours. Well, better than non-Shindoists, anyway.

  19. #69

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    As with pretty much all wood enclosures, they look WAY better in person. I'll admit, when I first saw these particular Shindo 604's I thought they looked a bit plain. But once I got them in natural light, I understood their understate beauty. And in a dimly lit room with some flickering candlelight (the way I most enjoy listening to music), the beauty is mesmerizing.

  20. #70
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    kev i agree with some of your points and can somewhat see where you are coming from. especially the point of ,"this is what you like and thats all that matters". which is 100% true. anything you want to pay your hard earned cash for is up to you. no matter what you think this is a friendly forum. but also an honest forum. right upto the top boss on the forum who will buy $75k speakers, then tell us basically they suck. and sell them. its not a personal attack on you or your choices, its just that some dont agree with them. its like that for every piece of gear on this forum. and this place is not driven by advertising dollars or what the admin wants to sell. this place is about honest assessment of stereo gear .
    now if you think shindo is in this business to make the world happy they are not, they are in this for the same reason everyone else is, to vent people with good size bank accounts of their money. period. its nothing against shindo or any other company, but they are just better at it than most because they have the "system approach" which keeps you coming back for more. bottom line its not what rack or cables is best with shindo gear, its what the importer imports. or distributor distributes. and it goes right back to the almighty dollar above all else.
    with that said, i know people who went the shindo "system" route an love it, and i know people who did and couldnt sell it off fast enough. its a matter of taste and no one is right or wrong, but we do like to discuss it. and if some criticisms are harsh than so be it, gotta have thick skin to be on the internet.
    every piece of gear i have has been criticized at one point or another . im ok with it, im not rich and i dont spend as much as most, and ive made alot of stupid purchases in the past . and im hating my speakers right now. but at the end of the day i can sit down and still enjoy a great album and thats all that really matters.
    good luck to you
    Steve

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  21. #71

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Petro85 View Post
    kev i agree with some of your points and can somewhat see where you are coming from. especially the point of ,"this is what you like and thats all that matters". which is 100% true. anything you want to pay your hard earned cash for is up to you. no matter what you think this is a friendly forum. but also an honest forum. right upto the top boss on the forum who will buy $75k speakers, then tell us basically they suck. and sell them. its not a personal attack on you or your choices, its just that some dont agree with them. its like that for every piece of gear on this forum. and this place is not driven by advertising dollars or what the admin wants to sell. this place is about honest assessment of stereo gear .
    now if you think shindo is in this business to make the world happy they are not, they are in this for the same reason everyone else is, to vent people with good size bank accounts of their money. period. its nothing against shindo or any other company, but they are just better at it than most because they have the "system approach" which keeps you coming back for more. bottom line its not what rack or cables is best with shindo gear, its what the importer imports. or distributor distributes. and it goes right back to the almighty dollar above all else.
    with that said, i know people who went the shindo "system" route an love it, and i know people who did and couldnt sell it off fast enough. its a matter of taste and no one is right or wrong, but we do like to discuss it. and if some criticisms are harsh than so be it, gotta have thick skin to be on the internet.
    every piece of gear i have has been criticized at one point or another . im ok with it, im not rich and i dont spend as much as most, and ive made alot of stupid purchases in the past . and im hating my speakers right now. but at the end of the day i can sit down and still enjoy a great album and thats all that really matters.
    good luck to you
    While I find it hard to disagree with the sentiment of your post, I'd have to say it's a pretty sad commentary as applied to the instant matter. Trust me, I'm not a sensitive guy...I argue with people as a career choice. That said, I find some of the specific criticisms as to the appearance a bit low brow and as to the comments as to performance totally uniformed. Which is fine. That's what questions are for. However, when these questions are asked from the point of view that the working assumption is that Shindo is a poor value proposition, especially where the one asking the question is not providing enough information for an informed comparison with "original" Altecs.

    Which is another way of me saying, it's hard for me to know whether those asking the questions are just ragging on the product or whether they have a working knowledge of Altec which provides a foundation for their question.

    Which brings me to my main point(s). It's all in how you ask. I don't think anyone here is really that unsophisticated. So when you ask a question with an obvious tone, with an obvious bias, I assume it was not accidental. Criticism is one thing. Informed criticism is even better. Some of the questions and points raised here, don't quite fit with the "friendly forum" flag.

    Just my opinion. And criticism.

  22. #72
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Keep it civil boys !
    Mark


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  23. #73

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    I for one think I'm keeping it quite civil. I have never stated that I don't think the Shindo 604 speakers can sound good as I obviously have no idea. I thought the question I asked with regards to how does the Shindo application of the 604 differ from how Altec implemented the 604 in their cabinet to be quite valid and i think Mike agreed. If Shindo has converted the 604 to a field coil speaker, that is a huge difference.

    I didn't think this forum was all about just patting each other on the back and congratulating each other on every purchase we make and then saying "GLWS" as it moves on down the road a few weeks or months later. If someone is paying $30k+ for a pair of 604 speakers mounted in a plain looking box, I think it's only normal to wonder what is going on with how Shindo has implemented changes from the original design which can be had for under $4k including Altec enclosures.

  24. #74

    Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    To be clear, the speakers that are the subject of the post are not FC conversions. My Shindo speakers are 604 FC conversions.

    Again, I don't disagree that the question is valid. I do take issue with the way some have presented the issue. Constructive discussion is more likely to be had where all parties remain respectful. Starting the discussion by referring the speakers as diy nightmares, or however it was worded, sets a nasty tone.

  25. #75

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by kev313 View Post
    To be clear, the speakers that are the subject of the post are not FC conversions. My Shindo speakers are 604 FC conversions.

    Again, I don't disagree that the question is valid. I do take issue with the way some have presented the issue. Constructive discussion is more likely to be had where all parties remain respectful. Starting the discussion by referring the speakers as diy nightmares, or however it was worded, sets a nasty tone.
    That wasn't me.

  26. #76

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    I for one think I'm keeping it quite civil. I have never stated that I don't think the Shindo 604 speakers can sound good as I obviously have no idea. I thought the question I asked with regards to how does the Shindo application of the 604 differ from how Altec implemented the 604 in their cabinet to be quite valid and i think Mike agreed. If Shindo has converted the 604 to a field coil speaker, that is a huge difference.

    I didn't think this forum was all about just patting each other on the back and congratulating each other on every purchase we make and then saying "GLWS" as it moves on down the road a few weeks or months later. If someone is paying $30k+ for a pair of 604 speakers mounted in a plain looking box, I think it's only normal to wonder what is going on with how Shindo has implemented changes from the original design which can be had for under $4k including Altec enclosures.
    As the original poster, I don't mind any of this. I'm fluent in Internet Snark and understand how to read between the nuanced lines.

    These particular speakers do look "plain" at first. That was also my initial thought. But natural wood is beautiful to me and the finish on these really shines in person. Photos just don't do them justice.

    Are they as nice as the standard DeVore finish or the Rosewood finish of the Latour's? No. But they are gonna look HOT in the room I'm putting them in.

  27. #77
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Paul- i realize you're a tube guy, but have you considered FirstWatt amplification? Nelson uses Tannoy in their design.
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12

  28. #78

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    So, did anyone ever step forward who owns, has owned or knows someone who owns Shindo's standard 604's (the owns I'm planning to get)?

    I'd love to talk to someone who has lived with these speakers and run them through the paces.

  29. #79

    Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    My advice would be to ask Matt. He could probably hook you up with owners who could relay their experiences. Speaking from only my experiences, I don't know any other owners of the 604, save for myself and the person pictured on Matt's site and ours are both field coil.

    If you go to audio asylum you can find a member who had Shindo build custom cabinets for his GPA 604, which are alnico obviously. It is my understanding that he later had Shindo convert the speakers to a full Shindo setup. Perhaps you can message him through AA.

  30. #80

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Will do. Curious... are you using any wood under your speakers?

    Matt recommended I put the speakers on wood (baltic birch plywood) to improve the bass since my floor is made of terracotta tiles. Wondering if you've experimented with any other woods and if you found that others were better in certain ways.

  31. #81
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Briguy if Matt suggested baltic birch plywood why would you second guess him.






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    Chris

    Garrard 301, SME 2012r, EMT TSD15, A23 T2 Hommage SUT, Shindo Montille, Shindo Aurieges, Shindo ICs and Auditorium Speaker Cables, Auditorium A23 Hommage 755a Speakers.

  32. #82

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Well, he didn't say "baltic birch and only baltic birch will do" and I'm not a lemming.

    Kev seems like the kind of guy who might have tried everything, too.

  33. #83

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by briguy View Post
    Well, he didn't say "baltic birch and only baltic birch will do" and I'm not a lemming.

    Kev seems like the kind of guy who might have tried everything, too.
    Actually, I'm using nothing but my bamboo flooring. I did try Baltic birch ply, random stacked 2x4 and maple blocks from maple shade (finished and unfinished, if it matters). Not much of a difference. In theory, depending on your floor, it should make a difference given the speaker has ports on the bottom. Matt mustve thought your floors are probably too hard or reflective of a surface.

  34. #84

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Definitely reflective. The room, in general, is going to take some work to tame. Lots of big windows, but I'm confident we'll get it sounding great.

  35. #85
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Just ordered Alnico 604's in full size Latour cabinets! Briguy's input via PM was helpful- the final push as it were.

  36. #86

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
    Just ordered Alnico 604's in full size Latour cabinets! Briguy's input via PM was helpful- the final push as it were.
    Nice! Which wood finish did you choose?

  37. #87
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Stock- the darker, walnut looking finish.

    image.jpg

  38. #88

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Nice!!!

  39. #89
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    what do those retail for Bongo-? i've only heard the full Latour. congrats on finding a speaker
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12

  40. #90
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
    Stock- the darker, walnut looking finish.

    image.jpg
    Pau Ferro

    Nice!
    Bill

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  41. #91
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    what do those retail for Bongo-? i've only heard the full Latour. congrats on finding a speaker
    Thanks KeithR! I'm giddy like a little girl before her first dance.

    They were $34k.
    Craig

    Listening Room:
    Shindo Vosne Romanee and Haut Brion, Shindo Alnico 604's, Fostex T90A's, slate Lenco TT, Schick tonearm, Bob's Devices 1311, PS Audio DirectStream, Naim CD5, Sonos, Shindo IC's and wire, WE wire
    On loan - in a buddy's man cave: Almarro a205a, Sonos, Rega Juras
    HT: McCormack MAP1 and HT3, Manaplaner CC2 and MC1's, REL, Cambridge DacMagic, Sonos

  42. #92
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cucumber_jones View Post
    Briguy if Matt suggested baltic birch plywood why would you second guess him.






    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Now this is a real plywood stand for a Shindo component ! :
    Shindo, Nagra, Electrocompaniet, Harbeth, AMR, Mc Intosh, Auditorium 23, Rega, DeVore, JC Verdier, WireWorld, Kimber

  43. #93
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loop4fun View Post
    Pau Ferro

    Nice!
    That's it! Thanks.
    Craig

    Listening Room:
    Shindo Vosne Romanee and Haut Brion, Shindo Alnico 604's, Fostex T90A's, slate Lenco TT, Schick tonearm, Bob's Devices 1311, PS Audio DirectStream, Naim CD5, Sonos, Shindo IC's and wire, WE wire
    On loan - in a buddy's man cave: Almarro a205a, Sonos, Rega Juras
    HT: McCormack MAP1 and HT3, Manaplaner CC2 and MC1's, REL, Cambridge DacMagic, Sonos

  44. #94
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Petro85 View Post
    ok i gotta ask. are these the speakers or the crate that the real $34k speakers come inside?? cause they look like diy with wood dowels for legs to me. must be something real special inside!! they might sound incredible as i never heard them but boy are they as basic looking as it comes. sorry if anyone feels insulted but i had to say it. been bugging me all day. tannoy dc10a's are 1/2 that price and also use alnico driver and are gorgeous. im just sayin.lol.
    I tend to agree that 34k for such speakers seems a bit unsane.
    I am not questionning the overall quality of the speakers and their sound. They must sound fabulous. But the price does not seem very logical to me.
    Wilson / Magico and so on are extremely expensive to build. Owners can understand easily why.
    But standard wood cases with Altec vintage drivers ???
    Look at this thread :
    http://ls3-5a-forum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=12508
    This guy is not alone in France.
    There are many talented people able to reproduce any old design.
    The price to pay for such a pair of speakers is around 6k euros !
    And they sound just uncredible.
    Of course, they are not in the standard circuit of importator / distributor / dealer....
    Shindo, Nagra, Electrocompaniet, Harbeth, AMR, Mc Intosh, Auditorium 23, Rega, DeVore, JC Verdier, WireWorld, Kimber

  45. #95
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome W View Post
    I tend to agree that 34k for such speakers seems a bit unsane.
    I am not questionning the overall quality of the speakers and their sound. They must sound fabulous. But the price does not seem very logical to me.
    Wilson / Magico and so on are extremely expensive to build. Owners can understand easily why.
    But standard wood cases with Altec vintage drivers ???
    Look at this thread :
    ALTEC 820 A ? LS3/5a le forum
    This guy is not alone in France.
    There are many talented people able to reproduce any old design.
    The price to pay for such a pair of speakers is around 6k euros !
    And they sound just uncredible.
    Of course, they are not in the standard circuit of importator / distributor / dealer....
    It is a good question Jerome. I hope that the speakers are worth it. The guys with the much more expensive field coil speakers seem very satisfied.

    I'm sure that many audiophiles have paid large sums for audio components, the relative value of which were suspect to others, especially their friends and family! I bet that some of those individuals also regretted their purchases and moved on to other equipment, perhaps repeatedly. I doubt that spinning their wheels was their goal, but that it was costly and frustrating, none the less. It is challenging to navigate one's way through the hyperbole and subjectivism and expense of audio gear. Am I paying too much for percieved peace of mind? Not sure yet. But my goal is to acquire a system that I can enjoy for a long time, not to assemble an expensive and impressive extension of my ego (perhaps psychologically unavoidable).

    I also don't want to invest even $5000 in building speakers. I have a DIY slate Lenco turntable (in the Oswalds Mill style). The ingredients: my drawing of a plinth, an autocad done by an architect friend, a slab of Pennsylivania blue slate, a local shop to water jet cut the plinth, a PTP5 mounting plate, and a Schick tonearm. Now I have a great sounding turntable. But speakers are another thing, and I expect much more difficult to build successfully, given the specifications of Shindo amps. Believe me, I considered it. Long live Troels Gravesens!



    I just wanted things to sound good and to work. In New Mexico, the land of adobe, viga ceilings, brick floors, and plaster walls, the understated Japanese aesthetic looks fantastic. I doubt that I'll dislike my system, since the components are designed to work together. Only time will tell.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Craig

    Listening Room:
    Shindo Vosne Romanee and Haut Brion, Shindo Alnico 604's, Fostex T90A's, slate Lenco TT, Schick tonearm, Bob's Devices 1311, PS Audio DirectStream, Naim CD5, Sonos, Shindo IC's and wire, WE wire
    On loan - in a buddy's man cave: Almarro a205a, Sonos, Rega Juras
    HT: McCormack MAP1 and HT3, Manaplaner CC2 and MC1's, REL, Cambridge DacMagic, Sonos

  46. #96
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
    It is a good question Jerome. I hope that the speakers are worth it. The guys with the much more expensive field coil speakers seem very satisfied.

    I'm sure that many audiophiles have paid large sums for audio components, the relative value of which were suspect to others, especially their friends and family! I bet that some of those individuals also regretted their purchases and moved on to other equipment, perhaps repeatedly. I doubt that spinning their wheels was their goal, but that it was costly and frustrating, none the less. It is challenging to navigate one's way through the hyperbole and subjectivism and expense of audio gear. Am I paying too much for percieved peace of mind? Not sure yet. But my goal is to acquire a system that I can enjoy for a long time, not to assemble an expensive and impressive extension of my ego (perhaps psychologically unavoidable).

    I also don't want to invest even $5000 in building speakers. I have a DIY slate Lenco turntable (in the Oswalds Mill style). The ingredients: my drawing of a plinth, an autocad done by an architect friend, a slab of Pennsylivania blue slate, a local shop to water jet cut the plinth, a PTP5 mounting plate, and a Schick tonearm. Now I have a great sounding turntable. But speakers are another thing, and I expect much more difficult to build successfully, given the specifications of Shindo amps. Believe me, I considered it. Long live Troels Gravesens!



    I just wanted things to sound good and to work. In New Mexico, the land of adobe, viga ceilings, brick floors, and plaster walls, the understated Japanese aesthetic looks fantastic. I doubt that I'll dislike my system, since the components are designed to work together. Only time will tell.
    Excellent post.
    I just wanted to add that I understand the high price tag of field coil speakers.
    For standard magnets ones, I have serious doubts.
    Shindo, Nagra, Electrocompaniet, Harbeth, AMR, Mc Intosh, Auditorium 23, Rega, DeVore, JC Verdier, WireWorld, Kimber

  47. #97
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    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome W View Post
    Excellent post.
    I just wanted to add that I understand the high price tag of field coil speakers.
    For standard magnets ones, I have serious doubts.

    Thanks Jerome. I do feel a bit kooky for getting the 604's. I supposed that any audio purchase might be difficult to justify, when reality settles in.

    But in the kooky context of un-reality, keep in mind that there is a $20k price premium for the field coil speakers! That could buy a good hifi system. Even the Shindo field coil owners are very supportive of the Alnico proposition. The decision to purchase field coils can boil down to getting a good second hand deal or simply having the money to pay for the ultimate in sound quality. It is fortunate for the owners in either case, but alas, neither applies to me.
    Craig

    Listening Room:
    Shindo Vosne Romanee and Haut Brion, Shindo Alnico 604's, Fostex T90A's, slate Lenco TT, Schick tonearm, Bob's Devices 1311, PS Audio DirectStream, Naim CD5, Sonos, Shindo IC's and wire, WE wire
    On loan - in a buddy's man cave: Almarro a205a, Sonos, Rega Juras
    HT: McCormack MAP1 and HT3, Manaplaner CC2 and MC1's, REL, Cambridge DacMagic, Sonos

  48. #98

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    The price tag on Shindo field coil speakers has very little to do with the price for their production. People who refer to other amateurs who are able to produce excellent replicas of famous speakers just dont get the point right.

    In this chain of producer/importer/distributor/dealer the price for any given product has to be determined only to a maximum limit the market (the customer) is willing to pay for. Its the same with cars, watches or any other luxury products, the value behind the market price is negligible. So whether this speaker will be priced 20K or 40K is only a question what people are willing to pay for the luxury name of Shindo Labs and how well this brand is established in the marked in relation to other brands as a luxury product name.
    So whatever Shindo has to pay for the second hand Altecs, their modification to field coils and the cabinet, it all boils down to a price tag that will be set by the importer after doing market researches and marketing in combination with the local dealers.

  49. #99

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmitt View Post
    The price tag on Shindo field coil speakers has very little to do with the price for their production. People who refer to other amateurs who are able to produce excellent replicas of famous speakers just dont get the point right.

    In this chain of producer/importer/distributor/dealer the price for any given product has to be determined only to a maximum limit the market (the customer) is willing to pay for. Its the same with cars, watches or any other luxury products, the value behind the market price is negligible. So whether this speaker will be priced 20K or 40K is only a question what people are willing to pay for the luxury name of Shindo Labs and how well this brand is established in the marked in relation to other brands as a luxury product name.
    So whatever Shindo has to pay for the second hand Altecs, their modification to field coils and the cabinet, it all boils down to a price tag that will be set by the importer after doing market researches and marketing in combination with the local dealers.
    yep...But that's pretty much how everything works. It seems especially bad in audio right now where high prices (extremely high) seem to dominate. On the other hand, the sound for dollar value equation is pretty much up to the buyer and, in my experience, much of the $$$ gear leaves me cold. At least with Shindo I get the sound I want in the manner in which the maker intended. Jerome derisively refers to the importer and dealers in a manner which surely suggests some evil intent to price gouge. I, on the other hand, cast my vote the other way and found the fee for the product and their service to be reasonable.

    If one views the speakers as a simple box with an old driver and a solid state power supply and nothing more, then, yes, 65k is an insane price to pay. If one views it as a piece of artistic expression as a component of a Shindo system, and, of course, the sound suits your taste, then it may be for you.

    There are other avenues, so keep an open mind. That said, at the end of the day the men and women behind Shindo are the best ambassadors of the brand if you are looking to optimize the gear and their advice is a professional service for which conpensation is warranted. I think a few have tried hard to prove they were smarter and learned the Harbeth way that they did not have all the answers.

    Hard way. I meant hard way.

  50. #100

    Re: Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

    I may have laughed out loud.


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