Shunyata Grounding System

So I have a fairly simple system with a Devialet 250 expert amp/dac and a Intel NUC that I run as a roon core.

I just recently bought a Shunyata Denali 6000/s which I am super happy with and I was thinking about trying out the CGS system but I am a little confused on how to use it properly.

My initial thought was to order two ground cables from Shunyata, one terminated with an RCA plug that I could put on an unused RCA on my amp and one with a USB end that I could plug into the back of my NUC.

However I heard from Shunyata that this is not the ideal way to do it and that I should connect to equipment ground and not signal ground?

Could someone explain to me how exactly this works and how you guys have connected your CGS systems?

I don't understand the reason of ever selling the ground cables with let's say a USB connector to begin with if that's not how they are supposed to be used?

I built my own ground cables with spade lugs at each end. I loosened a chassis bolt on the gear, attached one end to the gear, and the other end on the Triton. Works great.

This might help: https://shunyata.com/download/15436/

Thank you Kenny,

Having read that I just connected a simple wire I had at home from the ground post on the Denali to one of the screws holding the bottom plate on my NUC and it honestly made a pretty huge difference. I suspect it might be because the NUC is powered by DC and isn't connected to earth ground? either way that difference was way larger than I had expected.

Each of my mono amps has its own dedicated line and 2000 T… so 2 lines, 2 2000 T’s.

My front end is on a separate dedicated line with an Everest 8000.

What’s the best way to ground my amps… a grounding cable from each amp to the Everest?

Should the 2000T’s be grounded to the Everest?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Sandman

Each of my mono amps has its own dedicated line and 2000 T… so 2 lines, 2 2000 T’s.

---

I used to own a Pass phono stage and had a hum problem. What I learned from Pass is that they use the grounding scheme used in pro gear. I don’t remember what the difference was exactly but I mention this only to point out that what works for another brand might not work as well with Pass.

I believe that pro gear might have the chassis not connected to ground to protect humans against shock. Chassis grounding might not provide any benefit in that case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ekmanc

However I heard from Shunyata that this is not the ideal way to do it and that I should connect to equipment ground and not signal ground?

Could someone explain to me how exactly this works and how you guys have connected your CGS systems?

I don't understand the reason of ever selling the ground cables with let's say a USB connector to begin with if that's not how they are supposed to be used?

---

The guidance you received from Shunyata is correct. The GP-NR grounding system is a "chassis ground" system, NOT a signal ground system. Chassis grounding and signal grounding are two completely different things and you don't want to make signal grounding connections, e.g. from the ground shell of an unused RCA jack to a chassis grounding system.

If your amp, preamp, phono stage, etc. have a ground post that connects to chassis ground, you may find a benefit to connect a ground cable from that point on the component to one of the Shunyata GP-NR system ground posts e.g., one of the four on Everest, or the single ground post on Denali 6000/S V2, etc. If your component doesn't have a ground post, you can try connecting a ground wire with a spade terminal to a chassis screw of the component, and to the GP-NR ground post at the power distributor end.

Sometimes this works, and sometimes it doesn't because the paint or finishing on the component's chassis from where you are making the connection may prevent making a connection. A way to check this to take a multimeter, set it to measure Ohms, and touch one probe to the Ground pin of the IEC AC input receptacle on the component, and the other probe to the point on the chassis where you want to make the ground connection. If you get 0 ohms or close to that, you're good to go. If you don't, and get a high or infinite resistance reading, then that point on the chassis won't serve to make a ground connection back to the GP-NR ground post of Everest, Denali, etc. This was the case for my First Sound preamp, so I connected a wire from the screws that hold in the rubber feet on the bottom as none of the screws holding on the cover would connect to ground, and I didn't want to scrape the paint off the cover to make a ground connection. It would be nice if mfrs installed a proper chassis ground post to their components, but many don't.

If you ARE able to make a chassis ground connection from your component to one of the GP-NR ground posts, be advised that the quality of the ground cable really makes a difference, so in this case, I'd recommend purchasing a Shunyata CGC ground cable with the terminations you require. The ground cables do sound better as you move up the line from Venom to Delta to Alpha to Sigma.

I'll just add that I tried running a cable from the ground post on my EtherREGEN Ethernet switch to a GP-NR on my Everest, as well as one from the ground post on my First Sound Control unit, and both made an audible improvement in making the sound more "relaxed" as Hans says, and more "natural and organic-sounding".

The GP-NR system is there for a reason, so folks should definitely try it out.

The Pass mono amps have a labeled grounding lug on the back (amplifier stage, not power supply stage... these are 2 chassis mono blocks). So I’m guessing that grounding may be indicated, at least under some circumstances?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Sandman

The Pass mono amps have a labeled grounding lug on the back (amplifier stage, not power supply stage... these are 2 chassis mono blocks). So I’m guessing that grounding may be indicated, at least under some circumstances?

---

You can certainly try it by connecting a grounding wire from the ground post on your Pass monos to one of the ground posts of your Denalis. I would use 14 AWG wire or larger. If you like the results, you could order a Shunyata CGC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

You can certainly try it by connecting a grounding wire from the ground post on your Pass monos to one of the ground posts of your Denalis. I would use 14 AWG wire or larger. If you like the results, you could order a Shunyata CGC.

---

I am not arguing against grounding. But someone please help me understand why high quality and heavy gauge wire is thought to be necessary? :dunno:

I use 12 gauge stranded wire I bought at the hardware store.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

You can certainly try it by connecting a grounding wire from the ground post on your Pass monos to one of the ground posts of your Denalis. I would use 14 AWG wire or larger. If you like the results, you could order a Shunyata CGC.

---

Puma,

Given your connections with the folks at Shunyata.

I hope we see them tackle Signal Grounding. Aka a Entreq competitor.

I think many (including me) get chassis and signal grounding confused. They aren't one in the same (to my understanding)

Also for the members on this thread and forum that use the Denali 2000T for mono amps.

Have you tried an Omega QR from your amp(s) directly into the wall? Bypass the denali 2000T?

Or, are you waiting for the anticipated Tyhphon QR replacement?

Something you can plug your amps into then the wall?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mdp632

Puma,

Given your connections with the folks at Shunyata.

I hope we see them tackle Signal Grounding. Aka a Entreq competitor.

---

You'll have to ask the folks at Shunyata about that, or wait and see.

What I will say is that the (chassis) ground-plane noise reduction system in Denali v2 and Everest, for example, is quite sophisticated, very effective, and I think more folks should try it out. It's there for very sound (no pun intended) reasons.

Quote:

---

I think many (including me) get chassis and signal grounding confused. They aren't one in the same (to my understanding)

---

I've gotten them confused, too, and I'm sure, as you say, many others have as well. Chassis grounding and signal grounding are, per my understanding, very different things, indeed. The subject of "grounding" on the whole, is complex to say the least, even for some EEs.

Quote:

---

Have you tried an Omega QR from your amp(s) directly into the wall? Bypass the denali 2000T?

---

No. I've never heard the Omega QR PC. Nor have I ever heard or owned a Denali 2000T. I did some product photography of the Omega XC for Shunyata when their regular photographer wasn't available back when Washingon State was in lockdown. I listened to it briefly, compiled some notes for them evaluating it relative to Sigma XC, and then returned it to Shunyata.

Quote:

---

Or, are you waiting for the anticipated Tyhphon QR replacement?

---

No. I've never heard a Typhon QR, and have no plans for getting it's replacement. So, I'm not waiting for anything; I'm very, very happy with Everest, which has brought the biggest "foundational" improvement to my system in a decade.

Quote:

---

Something you can plug your amps into then the wall?

---

I don't know, as I have only 1 amp, and I've never plugged it into the wall since I bought a Triton V1 back in 2011. Everest works exceptionally well for powering my 70 Wpc C-J LP70S.

Thank you for the detailed response Puma, I think I got it now.
I am very very happy with the results I got with just cheap stranded wire so I will definitely try Shunyatas CGC cables at some point soon.

I am still confused on why they even sell them with RCA and USB plugs though if they are not meant to be connected to those receptacles, it just makes it unnecessarily confusing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ekmanc

I am still confused on why they even sell them with RCA and USB plugs though if they are not meant to be connected to those receptacles, it just makes it unnecessarily confusing.

---

Perhaps to use with other brands' grounding boxes that are meant for Signal grounding?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thyname

Perhaps to use with other brands' grounding boxes that are meant for Signal grounding?

---

Exactly. That's my assumption.

Yesterday, I connected a 12ga wire from a screw holding the IEC input of Bricasti M21 to the CGS lug on my Denali 6000/S v2. Early thoughts are that it added a thin layer of clarity. Hard to say but I will listen for a week or so and then remove it. If positive, I will experiment with doing the same thing with my M28 amplifiers. Shunyata literature suggests it may or may not be ‘better’ but it’s worth a shot. All three Bricasti units are on their own separate 20 amp lines.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crwilli

Yesterday, I connected a 12ga wire from a screw holding the IEC input of Bricasti M21 to the CGS lug on my Denali 6000/S v2. Early thoughts are that it added a thin layer of clarity. Hard to say but I will listen for a week or so and then remove it. If positive, I will experiment with the doing the same thing with my M28 amplifiers. Shunyata literature suggests it may or may not be ‘better’ but it’s worth a shot. All three Bricasti units are on their own separate 20 amp lines.

---

Keep us posted (no pun intended) ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thyname

Perhaps to use with other brands' grounding boxes that are meant for Signal grounding?

---

I suppose that is possible but they should probably mention that on their website then. I bet tons of people have connected the Everest and Denali ground plugs to their equipment signal grounds because of those cables.

I was told by Grant that if my Amps were plugged in to my Triton 3, then there is no point connecting their ground lugs to the CGS system. I tried it anyway and didnt hear any difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mallen123

I was told by Grant that if my Amps were plugged in to my Triton 3, then there is no point connecting their ground lugs to the CGS system. I tried it anyway and didnt hear any difference.

---

I wonder why he would say that. Is it okay to ground the preamp, or other gear attached to the Triton?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlueFox

I wonder why he would say that. Is it okay to ground the preamp, or other gear attached to the Triton?

---

It's been a while, but i believe he explained to me that if the equipment was plugged in the Triton with a 3 prong plug, it was already grounded to the CGS buss. CGS was for equipment not plugged in to the Triton directly to get them on the same ground plane.

That's right. But then some Triton owners jump on here and say they connect whatever which is powered by the Triton to the CGS also and they report it sounds better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brodricj

That's right. But then some Triton owners jump on here and say they connect whatever which is powered by the Triton to the CGS also and they report it sounds better.

---

Yes - I've seen those comments as well. Maybe their equipment chassis' are not well grounded to their power cord, so connecting them to the CGS lowers their noise floor a bit more?

May I point everyone to the Chassis Ground System guide (CGS) from Shynyata that you can download here: Downloads - Shunyata Research

Copy / paste:

-----------------------------

If a component’s power cord is connected to the Everest — do I need to run a ground wire to
the CGS?

If a component is connected to the Everest with a power cord where the ground wire and AC plug
pin are functional, the chassis of the component will be connected to the internal grounding system
of the Everest through the power cord. You do not need to make another connection to the CGS
terminal.

However, some components may benefit from an additional chassis connection, especially
if you are using common stock power cords.

Try it and see if performance is improved.

------------------------------

Which to me means that if you already have the Everest (or any power distributor with CGS terminals), there is no harm in trying (you already have the Everest, no extra money to spend for trying, especially with cheap ground wires you can get from anywhere, just to try, before committing money for Shunyata own ground cables)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thyname

May I point everyone to the Chassis Ground System guide (CGS) from Shynyata that you can download here: Downloads - Shunyata Research

Copy / paste:

-----------------------------

If a component’s power cord is connected to the Everest — do I need to run a ground wire to
the CGS?

If a component is connected to the Everest with a power cord where the ground wire and AC plug
pin are functional, the chassis of the component will be connected to the internal grounding system
of the Everest through the power cord. You do not need to make another connection to the CGS
terminal.

However, some components may benefit from an additional chassis connection, especially
if you are using common stock power cords.

Try it and see if performance is improved.

------------------------------

Which to me means that if you already have the Everest (or any power distributor with CGS terminals), there is no harm in trying (you already have the Everest, no extra money to spend for trying, especially with cheap ground wires you can get from anywhere, just to try, before committing money for Shunyata own ground cables)

---

Yep

I think everyone got it now.
Everything that goes from signal (RCA, USB etc) ground are used with 3:rd party ground boxes like NO or Entreq.

Chassi ground goes to the Everest/Denali/Triton CGS binding posts.

I use Nordost for signal ground and Shunyata for chassi ground connections. Both are beneficial to the sound.

Check out Shunyata website and latest price list. I think we should see signal side solution sooner than later from Shunyata

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Keep us posted (no pun intended) ;)

---

Steve,

Any chance you are demoing the yet to be released new SIGNAL grounding products from Shunyata? Thank you