Anyone have any experience with Greenline Yachts?
NEW Greenline 45 Coupe Hybrid 2021- the next generation of hybrid yachting! - YouTube
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Anyone have any experience with Greenline Yachts?
NEW Greenline 45 Coupe Hybrid 2021- the next generation of hybrid yachting! - YouTube
Greenline are probably the most successful all-electric boat builders, though in practice all-electric is, for most owners who do their research first, a non-starter.
I'm a member of the Dutch Barge Association, an organisation that promotes boating in all types of boat (not just barges) on the inland waterways of Europe and the UK. The forum frequently features discussions on the subject of electric propulsion, but in practice I don't believe a single member has an all-electric vessel. The biggest trouble is charging though there are several others.
As one travels along the waterways of Europe, you stop overnight at some suitable mooring. This may be a central town quay, probably without a shore supply, or a marina that offers only 6 or 10 amps (at 220 volts), or you choose a quiet and beautiful spot in the middle of nowhere which will certainly have no power. The next day you have a flat battery, often even if moored on a marina if you do your cooking and / or run AC from the limited shore supply - there's little left to charge batteries and you are constantly feeding coins into the supply box – a very costly was of buying power!
I see the model you offer a link to is a hybrid design, so it has a proper engine that may directly drive the prop in tandem with an electric motor, or it may simply act as a generator to keep the batteries charged. Whichever way you choose, the cost is inevitably more and running costs are likely to be much the same, so little environmental friendliness!
For fully-electric even Greenline says “At 4-5 knots, a fully charged battery pack provides a range of up to 20 miles.” That’s no good. Electric propulsion is likely to offer something around 50 hp (the Greenline 45 has a Torqeedo 80i 50kW unit) and this is fine for cruising canals, but you're unlikely to make much progress against a fast-flowing river, or at least not for long. So do you get a bigger motor and huge battery pack for those few days, or just find an alternative route – often impossible? Or go hybrid?
With cars, a hybrid design works well as cars use full power for a matter of seconds at a time so a combined power of 150 hp is likely to offer acceptable performance and the engine will switch in and out as required by the state of the battery. In a boat, there are times when full power is needed for hours at a time – going up the Rhine, Waal, Rhone, etc. The battery will soon be exhausted so you rely entirely on the engine power for much of you day’s cruising – you need just as big an engine as your conventional diesel-engined boat. So what have you saved by hybrid? Nothing apart from hugely bigger installation cost and more complex control systems. OK for cars, but much less so for boats.
My boat is 50 ft in length and is has a 210 hp engine that offers all I need for plugging upstream or crossing the Channel. I carry enough fuel for an entire year of regular holidays – about 14 weeks continuous. I never need shore power as I have an 8 kw generator that is only occasionally needed. Simple and efficient – and economical at about 4 litres per hour.
If I was to go electric, I’d choose a big enough electric motor to power against river flow, a generator of similar power that is cocooned so as to be quiet and located anywhere suitable in the boat, and a big battery pack to absorb the generator’s output and (if fully charged) would satisfy all domestic needs if moored up for 3 or 4 days without power. No separate generator needed but it would still cost a great deal more than conventional installations.
There’s a lot to be said for a modern efficient diesel engine driving the prop with no attempt to go the complex electric route.
Electric cars, planes and or boats is about making cents from nonsense ...
Hybrids for boats and cars are best compromise IMO, i can see how full quite electric at no-wake speeds makes sense and if only going out 2-4 miles from docking to destination would work for silent cruising , bad weather with chop would eat up battery power fast if loaded , best to have diesel backup power as hybrid ..
Regards
Hear Here- Thanks for your comments and insights.
I don't know if you watched the full video, but Canal Boats Telemark are planning on installing charging stations along the canal.
I was thinking of renting one of their boats and touring the canal, but Norway is currently closed down due to Covid-19.
I'm looking at getting a Greenline to do The Great Loop on the ICW. Looking at a 39 to start since the 45 Coupe wouldn't be available in the US until the end of the year.
My experience is in France, Netherlands, Belgium and Germany. I've been extensively cruising since 2008, clocking up 2400 engine hours. A rental company in Norway may be able to install charging points within a few days' cruising from their base but remember, if you arrive at a charging point just after another rental boat has grabbed the charging point, you may be in trouble. In Europe, there are no charging points suitable for battery cruising - not one as far as I know in 10,000+ miles of inland waterway and I'm sure the US Great Loop has no such facilities. In fact you can go days without even finding a diesel fuel point, let alone electricity! And remember it takes a matter of minutes to load fuel - all night to charge batteries, so you can't hover around until the incumbent boat has moved on!Quote:
Originally Posted by mauidan
I'd suggest you insist on a Hybrid boat even in an area where there are claimed to be charging points. I guess those lovely looking Norwegian waterways are free from currents so you don't need as much power as you would (occasionally) in FR, BE, NL or DE. I'd be concerned anywhere there are not LOTS of charging points with multiple moorings available so half the rental fleet can all recharge at the same time.
Have you considered a conventional vessel with a nice relaxed diesel engine? The ones installed in inland waterways vessels are usually quite large capacity (mine is small at 4.2 litres) but most of the time you run at 1500 RPM or so, so reasonably quiet and economical. If you rent a boat for a week, it will start full of fuel and you won't need to worry until you return. They'll top up and charge for the fuel you've used - at a much higher price than the nearby filling station! A battery boat will present a daily concern of where you can stop to recharge and you won’t ever be able to stop overnight at wild moorings.
Another factor to consider on inland waterways is the hull material. 80+% of those in Europe are built from steel, not fibreglass. The latter are referred to unflatteringly as Tupperware Boats and keep their good looks for far less time than steel ones. My first and present boat below. Peter
Hear Here-
Since I don't plan on getting the vaccine, I don't think I'll be traveling overseas anytime soon.
There are loads of marinas with fuel, water and electrical hooks along the ICW.
Most trips on the Great Loop are 40 to 60 miles.
The Greenline 39 stock can do 20 NMs on battery power at 6-7 knots, but I would probably double the battery bank to extend that range and running the diesel recharges the batteries in an hour.
I did look at conventional diesel powered vessels new and used. I was considering getting a new Nordhavn 41, but its top speed is under 10 knots. The G39 will do 20+ knots under diesel power.
$710,000 Yacht Tour : Nordhavn N41 - YouTube
Under the guy currently in the White House, fuel costs have been going up, so that makes the Greenline yachts even more attractive.
Nice boat Peter; your current one.
* Speaking of gas prices; one liter of regular here (Vancouver Island) is $1.50 Canadian.
Convert gallons to liters
It's expensive if you drive a Devel Sixteen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEXe6NVzQe4
I'd still suggest you try before you buy the exact model you are thinking of for the ICW. What power will the diesel engine be to proper the 39 at 20 knots? With 210 hp, I can't get anywhere near that despite my longer waterline length. Mine is a displacement hull and the Greenline could possibly be described as semi-dislacement, but unless you have hundreds of horses under the bonnet and deep pockets to feed them, 20 knots is unlikely. And if you enjoy blasting along at that sort of spped, you'll soon bore with electric at 4 knots! I'd probably get one with no electric claims and save a ton of initial purchase cash and just get the diesel version.Quote:
Originally Posted by mauidan
I have a Volve Penta Engine Calculator somewhere and will see what power you will need for 20 knots. I don't think it will frighten its users by stating gallons per hour at that speed though! Good luck. Peter
PS Recent fuel price increases likely more due to the Suez closure - it affected our UK prices where the White House guy has no influence!
Peter,
I plan to go to Florida to look at the Greenlines and other boats.
The G39 can cruise at between 6-7 knots on electric power. No diesel fumes, no noise.
Here's a picture a G40 owner took of his boat on electric power:
https://scontent.fhnl3-2.fna.fbcdn.n...f5&oe=60A3E8BB
The cost of the Hybrid System adds less than 9% to the total cost of a new boat. Most of the Greenline new and used boats have the Hybrid system.
That's quite impressive though as Greenline themselves say “At 4-5 knots, a fully charged battery pack provides a range of up to 20 miles”, I wonder what the range is at that sort of speed? The near-silence of the electric motor buzzing away may be very short-lived and then it's back to a too-small engine struggling to keep the boat moving at that speed! I prefer a big lazy and relaxed diesel that is still able to make good progress against a strong current when required.
I'm not against Greenline boats any more than I would be about all-electric cars, but one has to be realistic as to the usefulness of electric propulsion and the additional cost involved in their purchase if a diesel engine has to be installed too. If I lived on the banks of a lovely isolated lake and wanted a day boat to venture to another cove or anchorage for lunch before returning to my own charging point, a Greenline would be a great choice. Similarly an electric car is OK as a second car used solely for around town use, but not much use for travelling from my home in UK to my boat in the Netherlands.
I have no idea what speed my boat was doing on this builder trial, but this would be quite impossible powered by batteries. Peter
Peter-
I'll post more info after I do some first hand testing on the Greenlines.
In the meantime, I think this video captures the G39 experience:
LIVE on Greenline 39 Hybrid! - YouTube
Thanks for the video link. All rather American sales talk! No mention that Greenline boats are built in Eastern Europe, though that's no disadvantage.
Interesting to see at about 14 minutes in, they buzz a convetrted Dutch tugboat that's been modified to an explorer yacht. Seawolf was moored right outside my appartment here in Gunwharf Quays, Portsmouth, UK for a few weeks last year, so I recognised it straight away. At the time there were 2 other superyachts at the moorings, both with much higher stated value but I would have picked Seawolf of the 3. Peter
This is the G39 I've been looking at:
$575,000 Greenline 39 Hybrid Yacht Tour - YouTube
Lots of wood work to maintain ...!
Actually like it and well , It’s an Hybrid :)
hard to believe 16-18 knts with that single diesel thou 9-knots on electric only fully loaded must be eating up batteries , unless a sail boat doing under 9 knots would drive me nuts for all day travel ..
Inside is nice lack of engines provide plenty extra storage only the galley area is a bit weak IMO, i guess its all done to lower weight ..
Nice Boat ... !
Regard
There are lots of areas on the ICW where you're required to slow down to 5-8knts.Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne
If I get a G39, I'd double the battery bank. Most of the trips on the Great Loop are 40-60 miles. Being able to do half on battery power, will reduce fuel cost.
Lovely Yatch , if you can swing the Bitcoins go for it ...! :)
The yacht in the video is $3,953,300.Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne
I don't think I'll be able to afford anything bigger than their G45.