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Every once in a while...
Everyone once in a while we put together a system in the store that just so defies its total price, it’s unbelievable.
Right now, this system is blowing us away (for the money):
Magico A5’s
Pass X260.8’s
Pass XP22
MSB Discrete
Shunyata Alpha V2 power cables, IC’s and speaker cables
The cables brought this entire system to a whole new level I must say. I would take this system to the show and win best of show, I’m telling you.
I’ll try to make some videos next week.
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike
Everyone once in a while we put together a system in the store that just so defies its total price, it’s unbelievable.
Right now, this system is blowing us away (for the money):
Magico A5’s
Pass X260.8’s
Pass XP22
MSB Discrete
Shunyata Alpha V2 power cables, IC’s and speaker cables
The cables brought this entire system to a whole new level I must say. I would take this system to the show and win best of show, I’m telling you.
I’ll try to make some videos next week.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Sorry, but I had to turn away after seeing these-Magico A5’s, Shunyata Alpha V2 power cables, IC’s and speaker cables. Must take a few deep breaths......:popcorn:
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
No BS, we are sitting there saying “holy F this is a good system.”
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
I don't doubt it for a moment Mike, on paper alone it sounds superb !
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mikado463
I don't doubt it for a moment Mike, on paper alone it sounds superb !
I just realized, it’s an all [emoji631] system too!
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike
I just realized, it’s an all [emoji631] system too!
Nice, I can see Kate Smith looking down right now !
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Well, sort of...the aluminium enclosure of A5 comes from China, right? And the crossover parts come from Germany? So it's a bit of an international hybrid effort.
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brodricj
Well, sort of...the aluminium enclosure of A5 comes from China, right? And the crossover parts come from Germany? So it's a bit of an international hybrid effort.
'assemblage' is in the good 'ole US of A !
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
I'm guessing it's a $100K-ish MSRP system all up?
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mikado463
'assemblage' is in the good 'ole US of A !
I always have so much Euro and Asian gear always in the mix, I was surprised when I really thought about this system.
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brodricj
I'm guessing it's a $100K-ish MSRP system all up?
I was adding it up in my head. Not quite.
$13K x260.8 amps
$9500 xp22 preamp
$13K MSB DAC (this one has Roon module and dual PSU)
$21,800 A5 speakers
$10k Alpha V2 power cables (5)
$4k Alpa V2 speaker cables
$600 Alpha Ethernet
$6000 for all the Alpha V2 IC’s
$5000 6000 V/2 PC
$82,900 MSRP
LOTS of money indeed, but seriously seriously great sounding.
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike
I was adding it up in my head. Not quite.
$13K x260.8 amps
$9500 xp22 preamp
$13K MSB DAC (this one has Roon module and dual PSU)
$21,800 A5 speakers
$10k Alpha V2 power cables (5)
$4k Alpa V2 speaker cables
$600 Alpha Ethernet
$6000 for all the Alpha V2 IC’s
$5000 6000 V/2 PC*
$82,900 MSRP
LOTS of money indeed, but seriously seriously great sounding.
It is a lot of money, but actually, if I added up the price of all of my system's components, when new, it would come to about $80,000, so no, its not an unreasonable amount of money for such a high-end system.
*-BTW, Mike, I think the $6000 for the 6000 V2, you're referring to the Denali 6000
V2 power distributor, correct? (not power cables?)
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Puma Cat
It is a lot of money, but actually, if I added up the price of all of my system's components, when new, it would come to about $80,000, so no, its not an unreasonable amount of money for such a high-end system.
*-BTW, Mike, I think the $6000 for the 6000 V2, you're referring to the Denali 6000
V2 power distributor, correct? (not power cables?)
Correct. 6000sv2
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
And for the same money you could buy a pair of M3 and just get to admire their beauty. In silence.
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike
I was adding it up in my head. Not quite.
$13K x260.8 amps
$9500 xp22 preamp
$13K MSB DAC (this one has Roon module and dual PSU)
$21,800 A5 speakers
$10k Alpha V2 power cables (5)
$4k Alpa V2 speaker cables
$600 Alpha Ethernet
$6000 for all the Alpha V2 IC’s
$5000 6000 V/2 PC
$82,900 MSRP
LOTS of money indeed, but seriously seriously great sounding.
one source system, i love this. glad it works so nice together.
and the cash placed well balanced.
would you mind to try if a omega pc from wall to conditioner would have a great impact?
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brodricj
And for the same money you could buy a pair of M3 and just get to admire their beauty. In silence.
lol
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
u-sound
one source system, i love this. glad it works so nice together.
and the cash placed well balanced.
would you mind to try if a omega pc from wall to conditioner would have a great impact?
We have the Omega on the Everest. We do have two Omega NR’s, but they are on the MSB Select II.
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
u-sound
one source system, i love this. glad it works so nice together.
and the cash placed well balanced.
would you mind to try if a omega pc from wall to conditioner would have a great impact?
Note that his system already has 31% of MRSP in cables and Power distributor.
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Re: Every once in a while...
That sounds like an amazing system. Do you offer a lay-a-way plan? :)
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tino27
That sounds like an amazing system. Do you offer a lay-a-way plan? :)
Absolutely!
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Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GSOphile
Note that his system already has 31% of MRSP in cables and Power distributor.
Also, of the total msrp, 26% is for speakers which I believe is too low. Discloser: I am in the camp of those who like a ‘speaker-heavy’ system.
I wonder if Mike would consider selecting another system of similar cost but where the speakers are 75% of total cost. He could set up two different rooms in his store and let folks to listen to both. That should be a good experiment!
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike
I was adding it up in my head. Not quite.
$13K x260.8 amps
$9500 xp22 preamp
$13K MSB DAC (this one has Roon module and dual PSU)
$21,800 A5 speakers
$10k Alpha V2 power cables (5)
$4k Alpa V2 speaker cables
$600 Alpha Ethernet
$6000 for all the Alpha V2 IC’s
$5000 6000 V/2 PC
$82,900 MSRP
LOTS of money indeed, but seriously seriously great sounding.
It is a little amazing how the system price adds up when everything is counted.
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Re: Every once in a while...
the speaker is the little part, its all about how you feed them.
a5 + alpha2 loom.....vs .....s5mk2 with stock cords
about the same price, i think the s5 would sound poor compared
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Re: Everyone once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GSOphile
Note that his system already has 31% of MRSP in cables and Power distributor.
Which is as it should be.
You wouldn't build a luxury home and skimp on the foundation.
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Re: Every once in a while...
The purchaser doesn’t have to do the whole system at once. XP22 and power cords could be added later.
Ken
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpinist
The purchaser doesn’t have to do the whole system at once. XP22 and power cords could be added later.
Ken
Respectfully, that would be about the worst thing you could do to a powerful power amp, and more so with a Class A power amp like the Pass 260.8. The basic premise of a Class-A amp is that the output device(s) shall conduct all the time (through 360 degrees of the signal waveform). This means that in the simplest form, the power devices in a Class A amp must conduct a continuous current which exceeds the maximum peak load (loudspeaker) current.
With el cheapo black power cords, it'll get something like 40% less current that it's power supply really needs when the rectifiers snap open, particularly during dynamic passages. And, the rectifiers will be open longer as well, letting in all sorts of noise and garbage that is on the AC mains.
This is like putting a small intake manifold on a Formula 1 car. and giving it 89 octane pump gasoline. it's going to be starved of horsepower just as it really needs it going up the hill to Eau Rouge.
And BTW, you want to be "flat" through Eau Rouge...https://photos.imageevent.com/puma_c...Rouge%20F1.jpg
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Re: Every once in a while...
Yes, Pass makes great gear, but the power cords they provide aren’t worth crap.
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Puma Cat
Respectfully, that would be about the worst thing you could do to a powerful power amp like the Pass 260.8. With el cheapo black power cords, it'll get something like 40%
less current that it's power supply
really needs when the rectifiers snap open, particularly during dynamic passages. And, the rectifiers will be open
longer as well, letting in all sorts of noise and garbage that is on the AC mains.
This is like putting a small intake manifold on a Formula 1 car. and giving it 89 octane pump gasoline. it's going to be starved of horsepower just as it really needs it going up the hill to Eau Rouge.
And BTW, you want to be "flat" through Eau Rouge...
https://photos.imageevent.com/puma_c...Rouge%20F1.jpg
Respectfully, your statement is inaccurate. Inexpensive power cords can be added in the interim that will provide full current delivery and the preamp can be added later. I owned Pass XA-100.5 and XA-100.8 monoblocks for years and my personal experience bears this out.
My point is this system can be built over time and is not an all or nothing proposition. These scenarios usually result in the nothing choice when no other viable options are provided.
Ken
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpinist
Respectfully, your statement is inaccurate. Inexpensive power cords can be added in the interim that will provide full current delivery and the preamp can be added later. I owned Pass XA-100.5 and XA-100.8 monoblocks for years and my personal experience bears this out.
My point is this system can be built over time and is not an all or nothing proposition. These scenarios usually result in the nothing choice when no other viable options are provided.
Ken
Yeah, I would agree with that in principle. For example, you could use PCs like the Venom HC V2s (not to be underestimated, BTW) or NR-V10s, which would be a great place to start, and add the rest later.
But using the generic stock black power cords that come with components isn't going to cut it.
But personally, I would go DOWN in the power amp or speaker engineering specification with respect to cost, and UP in the power distribution and cabling engineering specification. Then when the budget allowed, you could go up in the component(s) and/or speaker engineering specification, knowing you had the best power and signal delivery, quality, and noise reduction engineering specification as a solid foundation for the entire system. A foundation that provides benefit everywhere, not just for one component.
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Re: Every once in a while...
Well apparently Nelson doesn't agree with your assessment and based on his history and the rave reviews of his products for decades he does know what he is doing.
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jack
Well apparently Nelson doesn't agree with your assessment and based on his history and the rave reviews of his products for decades he does know what he is doing.
Point #1: Nelson did not state he did not agree with my assessment.
Point #2: I never stated that Nelson does not know what he is doing, so I will respectfully request that you not misconstrue my comments by "putting words in my mouth."
Nelson Pass is a genius, in my experience.
And...getting on-topic, I think Mike has put together an outstanding system, one that I hope to hear some day.
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Re: Every once in a while...
Nobody's put words in your mouth you are the one who said that the Pass amps would not perform up to spec with the power cords that Nelson provides and need thousands of dollars of Shunyata PC's to perform at their best. Ken and I disagree with you. If Mike had proposed this system with a different brand of cables then I don't think we would even be having this discussion unless you wanted to contend that Shunyata cables were a better alternative to what he proposed.
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jack
Nobody's put words in your mouth you are the one who said that the Pass amps would not perform up to spec with the power cords that Nelson provides and need thousands of dollars of Shunyata PC's to perform at their best. Ken and I disagree with you. If Mike had proposed this system with a different brand of cables then I don't think we would even be having this discussion.
No, I didn't say that. Again, you're misquoting me. I never stated that they would not perform to specification.
And they would benefit from Shunyata PCs to perform at their best, this is consistent with what Mike has stated in his first post.
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Re: Every once in a while...
"With el cheapo black power cords, it'll get something like 40% less current that it's power supply really needs when the rectifiers snap open, particularly during dynamic passages. And, the rectifiers will be open longer as well, letting in all sorts of noise and garbage that is on the AC mains."
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jack
"With el cheapo black power cords, it'll get something like 40% less current that it's power supply really needs when the rectifiers snap open, particularly during dynamic passages. And, the rectifiers will be open longer as well, letting in all sorts of noise and garbage that is on the AC mains."
That does not mean the amp will not perform to specification.
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Re: Every once in a while...
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Re: Every once in a while...
Pass Labs X260.8 Technical Specifications (from Pass Labs):
Class AB
Type Mono
Gain (dB) 26
Inputs XLR/RCA
Power Output /ch (8 ohm) 260
No Output devices (/ch) 40
Power Consumption (Watts) 375
Standby Power Consumption (Watts) <1
Number of Chassis 1
Unit Dimension (W x D x H) (In.) 19 x 21.25 x 7.5
Unit Weight (LBS) 88
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Puma Cat
But personally, I would go DOWN in the power amp or speaker engineering specification with respect to cost, and UP in the power distribution and cabling engineering specification. Then when the budget allowed, you could go up in the component(s) and/or speaker engineering specification, knowing you had the best power and signal delivery, quality, and noise reduction engineering specification as a solid foundation for the entire system. A foundation that provides benefit everywhere, not just for one component.
Wow, now you’ve entirely lost me. You are suggesting allocating more of the budget to power products and cabling instead of initially purchasing the Magico A5’s and Pass X-260.8’s? The key elements of the wonderful system Mike has assembled are the Magico A5’s, MSB Discrete DAC and Pass X260.8’s. The XP22 preamp is also important but could be added later due to the MSB Discrete DAC’s excellent internal preamp. I think most would agree.
Ken
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Re: Every once in a while...
$10K on power cables doesn't make much sense to me on a system with a $28K pair of speakers. But if instead of buying those power cables you tried to level up in the Magico range with that $10K, I don't think you can.
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Re: Every once in a while...
Owning the Pass 260.8s amps has been a joy for me. I ran them for some time with the standard PCs that came with them. They were GREAT. These are absolutely amazing A/B amps. I'm so impressed with them that I'm considering Pass XP 600s in my new post-COVID system.
This said, I was a cable doubter x 10. Electricity is just electricity. Just because they are thicker and better looking doesn't mean there will be any improvement. Junk science, waste of funds, etc.
However, I was convinced by a friend (who has a great system) that they would make a definite difference. I acquired three Shunyata Alpha V1 PCs for my 260.8s and my Luxman D08u. I wasn't expecting much if any improvement. Boy was I surprised. There was just more, more, more of everything good. Better sound stage, etc. All this with just some PCs. Unbelievable. WOW!!!
IMO, a person doesn't know what they are missing until they make this - the most important of upgrades. Power Cables do make a difference. I wish I had the V2s.
Since my system is somewhat close to the one Mike has listed above I know it must sound stunning (I have A3s instead of A5s and Luxman instead of MSB).
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpinist
Wow, now you’ve entirely lost me. You are suggesting allocating more of the budget to power products and cabling instead of initially purchasing the Magico A5’s and Pass X-260.8’s? The key elements of the wonderful system Mike has assembled are the Magico A5’s, MSB Discrete DAC and Pass X260.8’s. The XP22 preamp is also important but could be added later due to the MSB Discrete DAC’s excellent internal preamp. I think most would agree.
Ken
Umm...not exactly, Ken. IMHO, Mike has indeed assembled as wonderful system here. One that thoughtfully reflects his professional experience and his knowledge of the components. So, no, if I had $82K to spend for a system, I would do exactly what Mike has done here. And I for one, would love to hear it. I'l bet its amazing.
What I was saying was that if there was budget constraint such that one didn't have $82K to assemble the entirety of the fine system here all at once, I would purchase less expensive speakers and amps (but with designed and manufactured the same quality of engineering and design core competencies), and with the money saved, use those funds to get the Denali 6000/V2 PD and full Shunyata Alpha loom that Mike has listed.
I'm not intimately familiar with the Magico speaker line (though I think the brand is a superb audio component manufacturer), so let's use an example I'm familiar with that Mike also carries.
If rather than Magico A5s, the speakers were originally to be Harbeth 40.3XDs and the amp was the Pass 260.8, and the price of these amps and speakers took me out of my budget to get these AND a full Shunyata Alpha loom with Denali V2, what I would do instead would be to get Harbeth 30.2 and a Pass XA 30.8. This would save me about $14,000 I could put towards getting the Denali V2 and full Shunyata Alpha loom. I'd have gorgeous, beautiful, engaging sound. Not sound that was hashy, gritty, or spitty from using OEM black power cords and noise from the AC Mains. No, I wouldn't have as much bass, or as much volume (gain) from a smaller amp in a large room. So, what I would do is...sit closer. ;)
And then, as funds allowed, I could upgrade the amp or speakers, and still have my killer Denali and Shunyata Alpha loom to use and get full performance from these upgraded components.
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Re: Every once in a while...
to each his own Stephen but spending less on speakers vs. 'wire' is absurd in my book........
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Puma Cat
Respectfully, that would be about the worst thing you could do to a powerful power amp, and more so with a Class A power amp like the Pass 260.8...
As already noted, the x260.8 is not Class A, it is Class AB. And the manual for every Pass Labs product makes it clear that Pass fully understands that most users will use an aftermarket power cord, but the amps are spec'ed with the supplied cord.
The system doesn't seem to include a source to feed the DAC? Even is one is only streaming don't you still need a controller, and NAS unless one wants to be tied to a subscription service?
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Calvin
IMO, a person doesn't know what they are missing until they make this
This is the great truth about almost everything in audio and, if well understood, it allows to perceive the reason of so many opposing opinions.
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rbbert
As already noted, the x260.8 is not Class A, it is Class AB. And the manual for every Pass Labs product makes it clear that Pass fully understands that most users will use an aftermarket power cord, but the amps are spec'ed with the supplied cord.
The system doesn't seem to include a source to feed the DAC? Even is one is only streaming don't you still need a controller, and NAS unless one wants to be tied to a subscription service?
Yes, I would personally have to add at least a:
MSB Ref. SACD
Aurender W20SE
Aurender ACS10 / 24TB
to be anywhere near a minimum completion. And I’d need a rack. So, I’m well over 100k MSRP.
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rbbert
As already noted, the x260.8 is not Class A, it is Class AB. And the manual for every Pass Labs product makes it clear that Pass fully understands that most users will use an aftermarket power cord, but the amps are spec'ed with the supplied cord.
The system doesn't seem to include a source to feed the DAC? Even is one is only streaming don't you still need a controller, and NAS unless one wants to be tied to a subscription service?
It has a Roon module in the DAC. That’s how we are using it.
I know there is a lot of talk about the cables, but to be honest, this system went from great to “out of this world” when we put in the full Alpha V2 loom. We had in there previous a mishmash of Wireworld Eclipse 8 SPC, Tornado PC’s and Sigma v1 IC’s. All good cables for sure, but the system went up many notches when we put in the Alpha v2 loom. Just saying.
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mikado463
to each his own Stephen but spending less on speakers vs. 'wire' is absurd in my book........
Yep, you're right, Dave, to each his own.
Cheers.
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rbbert
As already noted, the x260.8 is not Class A, it is Class AB. And the manual for every Pass Labs product makes it clear that Pass fully understands that most users will use an aftermarket power cord, but the amps are spec'ed with the supplied cord.
The system doesn't seem to include a source to feed the DAC? Even is one is only streaming don't you still need a controller, and NAS unless one wants to be tied to a subscription service?
You're correct, I made an error in referring to the 260.8 as Class A instead of Class AB.
My bad. :P
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BlueFox
Yes, Pass makes great gear, but the power cords they provide aren’t worth crap.
Oh really?--Well according to an Audio Expert on another forum they are the highly vaunted Ching Cheng Chinese PC's he recommends --anyone can buy for a few dollars change .
Some serious Audiophiles on that site have all biffed their Transparent's/etc for the very same cords as Nelson uses.
Maybe Nelson knows something we don't:rolleyes:?
Bruce
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Re: Every once in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bruce
Oh really?-- Maybe Nelson knows something we don't:rolleyes:?
understatement if there ever was one ........