Mytek new DAC/Streamer/Pre

Mytek Audio Empire DAC/Streamer/Preamplifier | Part-Time Audiophile

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Mytek proudly introduces the Empire DAC / streamer / preamplifier ($19,995) as an 'all out' assault on the state-of-the-art hi-fi. The streamer is Roon-ready and features internal Roon Core that can drive both this ultra-high performance unit and external Roon endpoints. There is a dual mono fully balanced differential analog preamplifier with an ultra quiet phono stage for both MC and MM cartridges. Going one step further, a high current, dual mono, fully balanced headphone amplifier is part of this extraordinary package.

Built around two ultra-high performance ESS 9038PRO Sabre DAC chipsets, this dual mono fully balanced circuit is capable of 32-bit/768kHz PCM, DSD512 and MQA while achieving dynamic range greater than 133dB. Both the DAC and preamplifier functions are controlled by a brand new MytekOS Platform, offering new functionality via easy software upgrades that will gradually be released in the future as the platform progresses. Mytek's Empire includes Wi-Fi and has an internet-ready control platform too. Furthermore, as a result of both its modular hardware design and software based platform, the Empire Streamer can be described as future proof. Mytek's Empire Series will be expanded upon with an addition of monoblock amplifiers planned for 2021.

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It looks to be a very interesting device. It is a true preamp too as it has a MC phono input.

It does have a lot of features Mark. This is a significant step for Mytek at $20K.

I'm hesitant ... this kind of feels like a half-baked product to me, especially at $20k. "Yay!" I can get my hands on the physical product in Q1 2021, but I have to wait until Q4 2021 for full functionality? And that's assuming that the firmware delivery timelines don't slip. Because software development timelines never slip. Especially speaking as a software engineer. :)

Not trying to be negative, and perhaps this new Mytek will be a truly marvelous product, but firmware rollouts to achieve full functionality feel like a red flag. Happy to be proven wrong.

Very attractive looking piece.

https://positive-feedback.com/wp-con...2-1024x474.jpg

https://positive-feedback.com/wp-con...3-1024x474.jpg

It’s kind of incredible that nowadays everyone is trying to charge the price of a small car for their gear. Totally out of proportion IMHO.


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I feel kind of this way about it...:doubtful:, but also willing to wait and see, but a ESS DAC chip (ok two) seems not high enough level for a $20k product. When a company that specializes in value products jump into the big boy pricing products the results are not always pretty (figuratively).

But who knows, maybe they will pull off some magic :fingers:.

I also agree, I would not want to purchase an expensive items and then have to wait for firmware updates to make it fully functional.... as Tino said, and also as a software developer, we all know that software development schedules never ever slip :D....

“we all know that software development schedules never ever slip ....”

Yeah. Software engineers can crash any project schedule that is dependent on software development. Software always lags hardware.

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Originally Posted by mep

“we all know that software development schedules never ever slip ....”

Yeah. Software engineers can crash any project schedule that is dependent on software development. Software always lags hardware.

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Let's not rule out the "value adds" that pointy haired bosses add to the mix. If I had a nickel every time marketing dictated what features to add as a MUST HAVE FEAture only to remove them six months later because it turns out that there wasn't as much customer demand as they predicted ... well, I'd have a lot of nickels!

:) :) :)

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Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I feel kind of this way about it...:doubtful:, but also willing to wait and see, but a ESS DAC chip (ok two) seems not high enough level for a $20k product. When a company that specializes in value products jump into the big boy pricing products the results are not always pretty (figuratively).

But who knows, maybe they will pull off some magic :fingers:.

I also agree, I would not want to purchase an expensive items and then have to wait for firmware updates to make it fully functional.... as Tino said, and also as a software developer, we all know that software development schedules never ever slip :D....

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ESS chips are far from cheap in DAC world. But as Charlie Hansen used to say, the DAC chip itself is only responsilbe for 10% of the sound.

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Originally Posted by Elberoth

ESS chips are far from cheap in DAC world. But as Charlie Hansen used to say, the DAC chip itself is only responsilbe for 10% of the sound.

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+ 100

Understand that, but no $20k piece of equipment uses off the shelf ESS chips, and the 9038 can be found in DACs under $1k, so they are pretty inexpensive. I have nothing against ESS. I have had several DACs with ESS chips including the 9038. Point being if you want to play with the big boys you better use big boy toys. Anyway, I will with hold opinions, just making an observation.

For that kind of money you buy a Lumin X1 and a quality tube preamp like the Backert Rhumba 1.3, LTA MicroZotl or the Supratek Cabernet and still have money left over plus you have a streamer and software that you know works along with a full function preamp. Both pieces would be from companies with experience at what they do and real support from years in the business. Up to this point Mytek's only experience in the streamer arena is to buy a card from Conversdigital the same as the one used by PSA, Ayre, Krell and others running on mConnect software.

Esoteric K-01Xs uses AKM 4497EQ and cost $22k.

The problem is ESS chipset has gotten a bad rep based on sub $1000 chinese manufactured DACs which mainly packaged their reference design in a box.

IMO, we need to judge a DAC by its sound and not what chip it uses or not uses internally.

True, however the chip certainly plays a big role :). My point was, most of the big boys don't use off the shelf... Msb, dCS, T+A, Lampi, etc...

The DAC chip does play a role but its not big, that is what Charlie Hansen said - the DAC chip itself is only responsible for 10% of the sound. I can't agree more. The same chip can sound profoundly different in well implemented circuit - the power supply, clock topology, the output - they all have equal share to the final sound of the DAC.

The Lampi Amber3 uses 9038 and I can say that it sounds phenomenal for the price :)

I will definitely give you that. But my main point is that when a companies reputation has been mainly made from a $2k DAC (yes I know they have other products, such as the Manhattan), and they are trying to jump into a $20k product people are naturally thinking about their most famous $2k product. So they should make sure the new product is something pretty special... and starting off with an off the shelf chip does not instill great confidence.

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Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I will definitely give you that. But my main point is that when a companies reputation has been mainly made from a $2k DAC (yes I know they have other products, such as the Manhattan), and they are trying to jump into a $20k product people are naturally thinking about their most famous $2k product. So they should make sure the new product is something pretty special... and starting off with an off the shelf chip does not instill great confidence.

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ESS 9030PRO is arguably one of the best DAC chips available today, at any price. Going custom R2R route or similar, does not mean the DAC will sound or measure any better.

The DAC chip itself is one of the few hundred elements needed to build a DAC. Power supply, clocking, digital filtering, analog output stage - they all matter much more than the DAC chip itself.

The ESS 9038 chips can be found in many ultra high end DACs, like the top of the range Accuphase DP-950/DC-950 SACD player - and that is pretty spectacular sounding unit. One that costs $50.000 or so.

https://www.hfc.com.pl/Resources/new...-DC-950-XL.jpg

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Originally Posted by Elberoth

The DAC chip itself is one of the few hundred elements needed to build a DAC. Power supply, clocking, digital filtering, analog output stage - they all matter much more than the DAC chip itself.

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I have not disputed this what so ever.

Again, I am saying jumping into the big boys realm from the value oriented realm is a huge jump for a company. When a company has always built some of the most expensive gear on the planet of course no one will notice if they use an off the shelf chip, I simply assume they are making up for it elsewhere. It is assumed they build other areas in their products over the top. But when a company jumps to a product roughly ten times more expensive than what their most famous product previously cost yet uses the same chip it is rather suspicious.

Just because a few big boy extreme products use the same chip does not equate in this scenario. Accuphase and Esoteric, for example, have always made ultra expensive gear. That is their market. If either of these built their reputation on $2k products and then all of a sudden offered a $20k product using the same chip I would be just as suspicious of them.

Also, when this "value" oriented company throws everything and the kitchen sink into this new, and arguably ultra expensive product, I become even more suspicious.

With very few exceptions, higher end DACs do not use off the shelf chips, and those that do had previously built their reputations from making ultra high end products through out their lineups.

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Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I have not disputed this what so ever.

Again, I am saying jumping into the big boys realm from the value oriented realm is a huge jump for a company. When a company has always built some of the most expensive gear on the planet of course no one will notice if they use an off the shelf chip, I simply assume they are making up for it elsewhere. It is assumed they build other areas in their products over the top. But when a company jumps to a product roughly ten times more expensive than what their most famous product previously cost yet uses the same chip it is rather suspicious.

Just because a few big boy extreme products use the same chip does not equate in this scenario. Accuphase and Esoteric, for example, have always made ultra expensive gear. That is their market. If either of these built their reputation on $2k products and then all of a sudden offered a $20k product using the same chip I would be just as suspicious of them.

Also, when this "value" oriented company throws everything and the kitchen sink into this new, and arguably ultra expensive product, I become even more suspicious.

With very few exceptions, higher end DACs do not use off the shelf chips, and those that do had previously built their reputations from making ultra high end products through out their lineups.

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I guess we need to define "ultra expensive." If you want to call the new Mytek "ultra expensive," what do you call the MSB Select II?

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Originally Posted by mep

I guess we need to define "ultra expensive." If you want to call the new Mytek "ultra expensive," what do you call the MSB Select II?

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The best. [emoji4]


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Originally Posted by mep

I guess we need to define "ultra expensive." If you want to call the new Mytek "ultra expensive," what do you call the MSB Select II?

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I consider any component that is $20,000 as ultra expensive :D.... But, I absolutely love Mike's reply :P, the best, sure, insane... absolutely :)...

Then again, if you can afford a quarter million dollar system then I guess $20k would not be considered ultra expensive. For normal hard working people, with way above average incomes $20k is extremely high for an audio component :). I think there may be one or two people in our audio club of over 100 that would even consider a component that cost $20k, and neither would consider a Mytek product :roflmao:.

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Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I consider any component that is $20,000 as ultra expensive :D.... But, I absolutely love Mike's reply :P, the best, sure, insane... absolutely :)...

Then again, if you can afford a quarter million dollar system then I guess $20k would not be considered ultra expensive. For normal hard working people, with way above average incomes $20k is extremely high for an audio component :). I think there may be one or two people in our audio club of over 100 that would even consider a component that cost $20k, and neither would consider a Mytec product :roflmao:.

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I’m glad you crack yourself up. You are a funny dude. Sounds like you are in the right audio club. According to you, only two people out of 100 would consider a component that costs $20k and you just happen to know that neither of the two would consider a Mytek component.

Did your audio club members take a survey to show how much each member is willing to spend on audio gear and which brands they would buy or are you the oracle for your audio club?

Why our audio club is not much of an avenue for sales for me.

I could tell you stories. The best is the guy who came to one of my events and stuffed his pockets with subway sandwiches. He even took the mustard and mayo containers. Wish I had pics.


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You need video surveillance :)

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Originally Posted by joeinid

You need video surveillance :)

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I have it! HD and all. Cameras everywhere. I should have gone back and looked. Too funny. You know how I caught him?

There were about 4 subs remaining after everyone ate. I was staring at the table and said “wow, someone actually ate the veggie subs!” I turn and look and there is this guy with a big shit eating grin on his face and he proceeds to pull them out of his big baggie pants pockets. I couldn’t stop laughing. He then says “can I take home the left over mustard and mayo?” No kidding.

Yeah, he’s surely not going to buy a $20k DAC!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike

Why our audio club is not much of an avenue for sales for me.

I could tell you stories. The best is the guy who came to one of my events and stuffed his pockets with subway sandwiches. He even took the mustard and mayo containers. Wish I had pics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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Sounds about right Mike. Seagulls flock to free food, but this guy takes the cake.

Hahahaha!

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Originally Posted by Randy Myers

If either of these built their reputation on $2k products and then all of a sudden offered a $20k product using the same chip I would be just as suspicious of them.

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Their previous top of the range DAC - Manhattan II - is $6000.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...0.22.46+AM.png

You are trying to make your point using their entry level, $2000 DAC, which is a bit misleading. The jump from $6000 to $20.000 doesn't sound as extreme anymore.

I agree that $20.000 is still a lot of money, but in my opinion they are not betting on selling hundreds of them. It will probably be a statement product for them, that should help sell cheaper DACs.

This kind of marketing would not be unique to Mytek.

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Originally Posted by Elberoth

Their previous top of the range DAC - Manhattan II - is $6000.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...0.22.46+AM.png

You are trying to make your point using their entry level, $2000 DAC, which is a bit misleading. The jump from $6000 to $20.000 doesn't sound as extreme anymore.

I agree that $20.000 is still a lot of money, but in my opinion they are not betting on selling hundreds of them. It will probably be a statement product for them, that should help sell cheaper DACs.

This kind of marketing would not be unique to Mytek.

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Adam-You made some rally good points. People also need to remember that this isn’t just a DAC. It’s a line stage and it has a mm/mc phono stage.

I still have the black mastering version of the Mytek Stereo 192 DAC. If the Stereo 192 DAC was a Roon endpoint it would still be in my system.

All of which I did in fact mention. I did actually mention the Manhattan, however Mytek's reputation was built on the $2000 unit. I also mentioned that there are everything and the kitchen sink also in this unit.

It still is a company that has never made a product such as this before and has built their reputation on their $2k DAC/preamp/headphone amp. Add a phono pre and some internal storage and pezam.... $20k :)...

I judge on what people in our audio club will buy and won't buy by what they own and how the deal with gear upgrades. Again making generalized statements but based in fact. And once again people not reading what is actually written and making issues where they do not exist... and once again one person who then starts throwing insults and making big issues when others are having good discussions... why do I even bother having discussions and debating back and forth when one guy always comes in and starts trouble. It would be so nice if we could have good logical discussion, pros and cons, which is exactly what was happening, before one person decided to start throwing persnickety remarks and making it all about him.

Thanks for ruining one more discussion... it is always so nice when you do that.

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Originally Posted by Elberoth

Their previous top of the range DAC - Manhattan II - is $6000.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...0.22.46+AM.png

You are trying to make your point using their entry level, $2000 DAC, which is a bit misleading. The jump from $6000 to $20.000 doesn't sound as extreme anymore.

I agree that $20.000 is still a lot of money, but in my opinion they are not betting on selling hundreds of them. It will probably be a statement product for them, that should help sell cheaper DACs.

This kind of marketing would not be unique to Mytek.

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Adam this may be true and that is why I stated that I would keep an open mind. It does seem like a huge product level jump for the company but flagship design and selling certainly has worked for others in the past. Maybe this is really what Mytek is doing here, we will see.

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Originally Posted by Randy Myers

All of which I did in fact mention. I did actually mention the Manhattan, however Mytek's reputation was built on the $2000 unit. I also mentioned that there are everything and the kitchen sink also in this unit.

It still is a company that has never made a product such as this before and has built their reputation on their $2k DAC/preamp/headphone amp. Add a phono pre and some internal storage and pezam.... $20k :)...

I judge on what people in our audio club will buy and won't buy by what they own and how the deal with gear upgrades. Again making generalized statements but based in fact. And once again people not reading what is actually written and making issues where they do not exist... and once again one person who then starts throwing insults and making big issues when others are having good discussions... why do I even bother having discussions and debating back and forth when one guy always comes in and starts trouble. It would be so nice if we could have good logical discussion, pros and cons, which is exactly what was happening, before one person decided to start throwing persnickety remarks and making it all about him.

Thanks for ruining one more discussion... it is always so nice when you do that.

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Who said I “ruined” the conversation? Oh, you did. It seems apparent you never want your statements questioned. You want everyone to accept every statement you make as gospel. If you truly feel that way and evidence shows you do, you picked the wrong hobby.

You really want us to believe that you track the systems of all 100 members in your audio club and you know how much each member is willing to pay for each upgrade in their system?? In your words: “Again making generalized statements”. Of course you are making generalized statements based on your personal beliefs unless your entire audio club is made up of clones.

And here we go again, going completely off topic to create issues where they don't exist...

I try, many times to have nice discussions with you, I even give you compliments when warrantied, etc., yet you constantly start throwing personal insults and snide remarks. I have lost count of how many threads the same thing has happened over and over and over. Good discussion going, someone makes a statement that you may not agree with and you pull out insults and personal attacks and the discussions stop in their tracks.

I wonder why you assumed I was talking about you (I didn't mention you nor even quote you)... oh yea, you have done it so many times... Again, thank you very much for screwing up another discussion.

randy i felt sorry for you when i read thouse comments above.
on the other side, things cost what they cost and we can shake the head or not.
the shity part of our hobby is that it always comes down to how much financial pain you are willing to take.
the good thing is....the sound you get from a 20k unit costs only 2k in a couple of years. (still much to much for quiet anyone i guess)
the other very good thing is, that these days you dont have to lurk for the very best. you get top music from the second league and much lower.

the mytec does look very special, i like it but wouldn take it.
i think every company has the right to trickle up or down...or leave theyr roots completely. try and fail or whatever.
doing the same thing forever is all right as well.
imagine you are the designer of mytec and have a lot of good basics, sure you are thinking about pimping that with high grade power supplies, spectactular casing etc.

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Originally Posted by u-sound

randy i felt sorry for you when i read thouse comments above.
on the other side, things cost what they cost and we can shake the head or not.
the shity part of our hobby is that it always comes down to how much financial pain you are willing to take.
the good thing is....the sound you get from a 20k unit costs only 2k in a couple of years. (still much to much for quiet anyone i guess)
the other very good thing is, that these days you dont have to lurk for the very best. you get top music from the second league and much lower.

the mytec does look very special, i like it but wouldn take it.
i think every company has the right to trickle up or down...or leave theyr roots completely. try and fail or whatever.
doing the same thing forever is all right as well.
imagine you are the designer of mytec and have a lot of good basics, sure you are thinking about pimping that with high grade power supplies, spectactular casing etc.

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Thank you and honestly, I agree with everything you said. I also feel that a good pro and con debate is not a bad thing and can actually lead to some very good insightful thoughts, and I have in fact had my mind changed from good discussions in the past. I also believe that being respectful is an absolute requirement, especially when having a good pro and con debate.

Boy, a lot of pent up anger and incivility is being bandied about here and over just stuff. Everyone has different value systems. Some don’t feel uncomfortable spending way north of $100,000 for a German sports car but couldn’t fathom spending $25,000 for a pair of speakers. Some would spent $50,000 for a watch but not more than $30,000 for a car. And some would spend $200,000 for a stereo setup and wear a Timex watch and drive a Prius. Different strokes for different folks, right? All it’s about is what you enjoy and that conclusion can only be subjective and in the exclusive domain of the eye and ear of the beholder. Maybe a bit off topic but it amazes me how some can display so much vitriol and hostility over a hobby.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike

Why our audio club is not much of an avenue for sales for me.

I could tell you stories. The best is the guy who came to one of my events and stuffed his pockets with subway sandwiches. He even took the mustard and mayo containers. Wish I had pics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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Kidding me! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Mike

I have it! HD and all. Cameras everywhere. I should have gone back and looked. Too funny. You know how I caught him?

There were about 4 subs remaining after everyone ate. I was staring at the table and said “wow, someone actually ate the veggie subs!” I turn and look and there is this guy with a big shit eating grin on his face and he proceeds to pull them out of his big baggie pants pockets. I couldn’t stop laughing. He then says “can I take home the left over mustard and mayo?” No kidding.

Yeah, he’s surely not going to buy a $20k DAC!

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Dang... we have ALOT of really, emmm... thrifty, members in our audio club, but none have ever did anything like that. Simply wow...

What people forget in this discussion: The DAC needs to match the audioset. There are specific sets where a cheaper dac then the Brooklyn sounds better, while the same Brooklyn on another set sounds amazing.

This is the reason why my next dac will only be bought when tested on my own set.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elberoth

Their previous top of the range DAC - Manhattan II - is $6000.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...0.22.46+AM.png

You are trying to make your point using their entry level, $2000 DAC, which is a bit misleading. The jump from $6000 to $20.000 doesn't sound as extreme anymore.

I agree that $20.000 is still a lot of money, but in my opinion they are not betting on selling hundreds of them. It will probably be a statement product for them, that should help sell cheaper DACs.

This kind of marketing would not be unique to Mytek.

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The new Manhattan Bridge coming out this summer seems to be an interesting piece. Very close in functionality to the Empire, but only costing about $7000. That's less than half the price of the Empire. Will contain the Roon Core and go directly to the internal DAC...no ethernet, USB or other connections in between. That does lead to some potential drawbacks, depending upon how much computer power is needed/provided, and how much DSP one wants to run. Yet, an interesting product for those that like Roon.

Beta-tests in progress ... full coverage
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