Another Roon Heavy Handed Policy

Projectman

Projectman

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An email I received this morning from Roon:

Important Changes to how Roon interacts with your Roon Ready devices
Dear Roon subscriber,

When we first started our Roon Ready certification program, our goal was to provide a way for our customers to know that they were getting the best possible experience with their audio devices. People have come to trust Roon Ready devices to not only sound great, but work seamlessly in their homes with Roon.

In an effort to continue making Roon Ready a reliable, trustworthy signifier of quality, we are implementing some changes to what happens when a Roon Ready device has not completed the certification process.

What is changing?
Starting September 21st, Roon Ready devices that are uncertified will no longer have the ability to be enabled on the Audio Settings screen. When this change is made, uncertified devices will be discoverable, but cannot be Enabled for use with Roon.

Why is it changing?
The Roon Ready certification allows people to trust that they’re getting the best quality possible, but when products are prematurely released before their certification is complete, that trust is undermined. Not only can it create problematic situations for all parties involved, it hurts the reputation of the entire Roon Ready program.

How will this impact me?
If your device is Enabled in Roon’s settings, it will stay Enabled. But if you Disable the device, you will not be able to Enable it again after September 21st.
If you purchase a device that is not certified as Roon Ready, you will not be able to Enable it for use after September 21st.

Roon community isn't happy - Roon Not Working with Non Roon Ready Certified Devices - Roon Software - Roon Labs Community
 
I have no issue with this at all. If you follow the Roon Community website you see never ending variations of product that Roon users pull together. Why should they have to spend time supporting non-Roon Ready devices?
 
My NAD M10 was advertised as Roon Ready when I purchased it. The M10 no longer shows Roon Ready on NAD's website. I had lots of problems with the M10 and Roon and reached out to NAD's support on several occasions with log files and other information. Basically NAD and Roon pointed fingers at each other and the problems were never solved. Now I have a Bricasti M3 which is Roon Ready - Uncertified.

I don't have "never ending variations of product". If the device shows up and Roon software and allows me to enable it then Roon should allow it but not offer support if it is uncertified. They have allowed dozens of devices to be enabled that are uncertified and now they are effectively going to turn them off. If you move your Roon core to another server your devices are dead, if you have to reinstall Roon on your current server, your devices are dead in the water. If you buy a new server and move Roon there your existing devices are dead.

It isn't my fault that Roon won't support vendors trying to implement their solution. And what prevents Roon from having a dispute with a Bricasti, NAD or other audio company and disabling their devices in Roon with a future software upgrade out of spite or some other unknown reason? I have spoken with NAD regarding the problems I had with the N10 and they basically said Roon had no interest in working with them. I had a phone conversation with Bricast's owner several weeks ago and he had to prepare an emergency M3 DAC firmware upgrade because Roon made a change and didn't notify Bricasti of the change. Fortunately the firmware update fixed my problem.

No, this situation is not tolerable. If Roon wants to give me a refund then I will walk away.
 
Isn't this situation similar to the way that Apple or Google work? For example, in the case of Apple, when they issue a new iOS, the App developers need to modify their software to work with Apple's new iOS. Sometimes, App developers are slow in making changes and their Apps stop working (I have quite a few paid Apps that stopped working due to changes in Apple's iOS). Apple is continually making changes to their iOS and it is up to the developers to follow suit. Not sure if in the case of NAD there is also an issue with competing systems (I believe that NAD owns Bluesound and BlueOS which may be a Roon OS competitor).

Sometime ago, I used Roon with a non-compatible DAC. I used a very cheap Roon-Ready Raspberry Pi (less that $100) to connect with Roon and sent a digital signal to my DAC. It worked perfectly. I realize that this is not ideal in your case since you would not be able to see the album art on your NAD device, but it is a way to getting any device with digital inputs to work with Roon.

Hopefully Roon and NAD can make peace soon and you will not be affected!
 
49c82434cbc663acfca84c86bc923c7a.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Projectman said:
My NAD M10 was advertised as Roon Ready when I purchased it. The M10 no longer shows Roon Ready on NAD's website. I had lots of problems with the M10 and Roon and reached out to NAD's support on several occasions with log files and other information. Basically NAD and Roon pointed fingers at each other and the problems were never solved. Now I have a Bricasti M3 which is Roon Ready - Uncertified.

I don't have "never ending variations of product". If the device shows up and Roon software and allows me to enable it then Roon should allow it but not offer support if it is uncertified. They have allowed dozens of devices to be enabled that are uncertified and now they are effectively going to turn them off. If you move your Roon core to another server your devices are dead, if you have to reinstall Roon on your current server, your devices are dead in the water. If you buy a new server and move Roon there your existing devices are dead.

It isn't my fault that Roon won't support vendors trying to implement their solution. And what prevents Roon from having a dispute with a Bricasti, NAD or other audio company and disabling their devices in Roon with a future software upgrade out of spite or some other unknown reason? I have spoken with NAD regarding the problems I had with the N10 and they basically said Roon had no interest in working with them. I had a phone conversation with Bricast's owner several weeks ago and he had to prepare an emergency M3 DAC firmware upgrade because Roon made a change and didn't notify Bricasti of the change. Fortunately the firmware update fixed my problem.

No, this situation is not tolerable. If Roon wants to give me a refund then I will walk away.
Click to expand...

Who says Roon doesn't support vendors trying to get their product certified? Their site lists over 120 products from around 50 vendors who offer Roon Ready Network devices.
 
I sold my NAD M10 but the buyer will use BluOS so he is fine. It is the uber expensive (to me) Bricasti M3 DAC Streamer that will stop working if I move the Roon core off my iMac to a NUC or other Music Server. A squabble between Roon and Bricasti shouldn't take away my ability to use my main DAC/Streamer. Also, I paid big money for the privilege to use Roon and today it works just fine with the M3. They will take away that capability if I disable then try to enable the M3 in Roon after September 21st. Also will lose the ability to use the M3 if I move my Roon core to another server, reinstall the Roon core on my iMac.

Lastly what is to keep Roon from disabling vendor product in Roon if they have a falling out with the vendor?

Roon dropped the ball badly on this issue but I know my opinion is just that. Others may feel differently.
 
taking roon management at its word [which i have absolutely no reason not to] seems like a pretty reasonable and justifiable course of action on their part...

from roon CTO:

"This change prevents manufacturers from signing the Roon Ready license agreements, obtaining our SDK, building hardware using our technology, and then skipping our certification/review process and releasing unfinished, unreviewed products straight to customers.

We don’t charge for certification, but going through our certification process is a hard requirement for manufacturers to use use our technology. It is the only way that we can maintain the quality + support level that people associate with Roon Ready.

A tiny minority of manufacturers have released uncertified devices. We have been communicating with manufacturers about this coming change for over a year, and have provided ample time for them to come into compliance, and most of them have."

and

"This is only about manufacturers who licensed the Roon Ready SDK from us commercially, then violated our license by skipping the Roon Ready certification process. It’s not very many manufacturers. We began communicating with manufacturers about this in 2018. They have had ample warning to sort things out."

from roon technical support manager:

"This does not affect non Roon Ready devices like USB DACs, Roon Tested devices, Airplay, Sonos, etc. These devices will continue to be supported. If your device does not specifically say Uncertified on the audio settings screen, it will not be affected."
 
If there’s blame to go around, it lies with the equipment manufacturers who actively market their products as Roon certified when they are not. I was pleased to see that both my Lumin players were certified. And it appears that every LUMIN device was on the approved list. However, I also own a Bel Canto device that’s being sold as Roon certified but it is not. I bought the BC because it was (supposedly) Roon certified but now I feel like I was misled. Hopefully, this is a wake up call to manufacturers to complete the certification process. I also hope Roon extends the grace period to allow manufacturers to catch up.
 
I would love to hear from the manufacturers. I’ve heard many stories about moving the goal posts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
As far as I see Roon is a heck of a lot easier to work with than other companies (Apple any one?) and unlike most others they do not charge to get your product certified. It is a way of assuring that devices work as customers expect. I really have no issues with this at all.
 
I guess this is not much different than some of the features I bought My OPPO 93s for. I wanted to watch Youtube movies. Then they change the software, deactivate the app and give you no way to watch Youtube from a player you bought with the app needed. I also have a Samsung TV they did the same thing with both Pandora and Youtube. Everything Electronics today is disposable because even if it lasts, it won't support what you bought it for a few years after you buy it.
 
Shadowfax said:
I guess this is not much different than some of the features I bought My OPPO 93s for. I wanted to watch Youtube movies. Then they change the software, deactivate the app and give you no way to watch Youtube from a player you bought with the app needed. I also have a Samsung TV they did the same thing with both Pandora and Youtube. Everything Electronics today is disposable because even if it lasts, it won't support what you bought it for a few years after you buy it.
Click to expand...

My Samsung TV came with and advertised the MLB.TV app. It was the reason that I purchased that TV so I could watch my Yankees games. Well this year they took the app off their menus. Our new smaller TV in the other room allowed me to search for and install the app, but the main larger TV does not allow installing apps that are not part of their default apps. I can no longer watch one of the main reasons I purchased that TV... it happens from many companies.
 
I've been on both sides of a similar scenario, and I support Roon's decision. It's the right thing for the Roon ecosystem. It's unfortunate that the way it happened will make some things no longer work (I suspect this may be due to a lack of foresight on Roon's part). I also wonder if it may not actually be enforceable, which could create even bigger headaches for Roon going forward.
 
I think I said it! I have had two devices that were advertised as Roon Ready. The two I have experience with were the NAD M10 and the Bricasti M3 DAC with Ethernet Streaming. Both were shown in Roon as Roon Ready - Uncertified. Both were advertised as being Roon Ready (since removed from the NAD and Bricasti's websites).

I have spoken by phone and email with NAD over a period of 12 months about problems with the N10 and Roon. NAD pointed the finger repeatedly at Roon and Roon did the same with NAD. Still not Roon Ready. I sold the M10. I now own and use in my main system the Bricasti M3 DAC/Streamer. I spoke by phone with the owner of Bricasti and he expressed his frustration with Roon. Still not Roon Ready.

My frustration is that Roon won't support the M3 going forward and the conditions of losing support were noted above.
 
Projectman said:
NAD pointed the finger repeatedly at Roon and Roon did the same with NAD. Still not Roon Ready.

My frustration is that Roon won't support the M3 going forward and the conditions of losing support were noted above.
Click to expand...

This. Bolded above. If I had a dollar for every time I heard the same thing. The complaint is that the goal post keeps being moved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Oly said:
If there’s blame to go around, it lies with the equipment manufacturers who actively market their products as Roon certified when they are not. I was pleased to see that both my Lumin players were certified. And it appears that every LUMIN device was on the approved list. However, I also own a Bel Canto device that’s being sold as Roon certified but it is not. I bought the BC because it was (supposedly) Roon certified but now I feel like I was misled. Hopefully, this is a wake up call to manufacturers to complete the certification process. I also hope Roon extends the grace period to allow manufacturers to catch up.
Click to expand...

I think both Roon and manufacturers have valid points to make, but what you allude to is a definite bad showing by manufacturers. Either you are certified or you are not. I suppose Roon could be more diligent in informing the public with an accurate up-to-the-minute list of certified devices, but I don’t know if that is practical. Either way, manufacturers should NOT be selling products as Roon certified when they are not, especially if they do not have to pay for certification.
 
Randy Myers said:
My Samsung TV came with and advertised the MLB.TV app. It was the reason that I purchased that TV so I could watch my Yankees games. Well this year they took the app off their menus. Our new smaller TV in the other room allowed me to search for and install the app, but the main larger TV does not allow installing apps that are not part of their default apps. I can no longer watch one of the main reasons I purchased that TV... it happens from many companies.
Click to expand...

I was just about to post the same thing about MLB.TV, but in my case it is TiVo that dropped it without warning.
 
I have heard second hand, that ROON keeps the product sent to them for certification. If true, that seems over the top.
 
if i had to guess, at least part of this issue is driven by roon ongoing software development causing certification issues with static or lagging manufacturer hardware + firmware.

if its any consolation: i really, really hate that my 1984 original mac won't run osX catalina

;):D
 
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