Boulder 1160/Pass XA160.8 or Luxman M900U x2

I’m trying to make a decision on an amplifier purchase to drive my Magico S3 Mk2. Right now I’m planning on using a Lampizator Golden Atlantic TRP balanced with Volume Control directly which is arriving in the next few weeks. Cabling is Transparent Ref XL MM2.

im somewhat familiar with the Pass sound as I currently have an INT250 and have also heard 350.8 on Magico’s. I’ve listened to Mike’s excellent videos of the Luxman and Boulder on other Magico’s but it’s thru computer headphones.

i realize all these options can be heard at Suncoast’s world class showroom but unfortunately the current situation precludes me from travel.

Thoughts, experiences and suggestions welcome.

Best,

Bob

Bob, with the Lampi, I’m going to say M900u’s. The 750 watts in bridged, big mono sweet sound is really on another level.

These are the amps I chose for the M6’s at the Florida Audio Expo.

Bob - All three are excellent amps. They have different sound characteristics so it depends on what you are looking to accomplish. And, they are also at different price points.

I have XA160.8’s with my Magico S3MKI’s and haven’t found a compelling reason to give them up for something else yet.

I have an INT-250 driving B&W 803D2s. As I consider how my system might evolve, the S3Mk 2 would be under consideration. What do you dislike about your current pairing?

I don't dislike my current system and think the INT250 is a terrific value for what it does. I'm looking for more of everything......better bass control/grip, retain the rich midrange, better separation
of instruments with complex music, extended top end without glare and MOST importantly an emotional connection to the music.

Regarding price, all 3 options are in the 28-30 price so little differnce there.

The big questions is how does a single M900U compare to a bridged pair of them with S3-2?

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Originally Posted by rjc1845

I don't dislike my current system and think the INT250 is a terrific value for what it does. I'm looking for more of everything......better bass control/grip, retain the rich midrange, better separation
of instruments with complex music, extended top end without glare and MOST importantly an emotional connection to the music.

Regarding price, all 3 options are in the 28-30 price so little differnce there.

The big questions is how does a single M900U compare to a bridged pair of them with S3-2?

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Why would you want to bridge amps - doing so introduces other issues - not the least of which is a doubling if the minimum impedance - you then MAY have to carefully match speakers. With the Luxman M900U it is not much of an issue as it is stable to 1 ohm so that doubles to 2 Ohms when bridged. If an amplifier has a minimum impedance of 4 ohm & you bridge them then the impedance increases to 8 ohms & in that instance careful speaker matching is a must. You also increase the noise floor when you bridge amps.

Much better to match speakers & amps based how they sound & how well they "play together" with impedance dips etc...

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Originally Posted by rjc1845

I don't dislike my current system and think the INT250 is a terrific value for what it does. I'm looking for more of everything......better bass control/grip, retain the rich midrange, better separation
of instruments with complex music, extended top end without glare and MOST importantly an emotional connection to the music.

Regarding price, all 3 options are in the 28-30 price so little differnce there.

The big questions is how does a single M900U compare to a bridged pair of them with S3-2?

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imho change the speaker

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Originally Posted by u-sound

imho change the speaker

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Interesting. Care to expand on that? The S3Mk2 is pretty well regarded at its price point

Since you're in MA, Audio Video Therapy in Nashua, NH is a Luxman dealer. High End Goodwin in Waltham, MA a Boulder and Magico dealer. Fidelis in NH a Pass dealer. I have positive experiences with all of them. GL!

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Originally Posted by rjc1845

I don't dislike my current system and think the INT250 is a terrific value for what it does. I'm looking for more of everything......better bass control/grip, retain the rich midrange, better separation
of instruments with complex music, extended top end without glare and MOST importantly an emotional connection to the music...

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Have you auditioned and ruled out other integrateds' -- Diablo 300, Boulder 866, T+A PA3100, Luxman 509 -- ability to achieve this? I want to stay with a single box, so would welcome your experience and thoughts. I'm not questioning your path, but just hoping to learn from experiences you may have with gear I'm considering.

I am also an S3 Mk2 guy, but with a Diablo 300, which I really like. Since you are planning on going direct, an interesting new entrant might be the Gryphon Essence.

Well I enjoy Pass Labs. They are tube like. They are non fatiguing and with Magico they put out the magic.

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Originally Posted by owldiscourse

Interesting. Care to expand on that? The S3Mk2 is pretty well regarded at its price point

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my comment was based on the thought that the changes he is looking for can rather be achieved by switching the speaker than the amp. he is looking for better bass and more separation for orchestra. a better amp will always help to some degree....the speaker is the main issue still.

Hi Guys
How would your amp recommendations change if the speakers were M2 vs S3mk2 .

looking for mono blocks to match configuration below. Generally speaking I like the warmer side of neutral. Been running S3mk2 for years with PL 160.8. Upgrading to M2s. Seeking a bit more resolution and transparency and tighter bottom end without giving up liquidity and musicality of the Pass. Recently tried Constellation Taurus/ Pictaur with S3s but found them a bit fatiguing. Consensus seems to be that Dag M400 / S250 are best with Wilson. Any thoughts on Soulution 511s? Seems to be some value in used market for Soulution.
thanks

Current Configuration:
Innuous Statement / Roon
MSB REF DAC / F33 / Pre Amp out
Magico M2
PC - Synergistic Research SX
SC - Nordost Valhalla 2
IC - Analysis+ Golden Oval
PC - Shunyata Denali V2
2 dedicated lines

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Originally Posted by m3r

Hi Guys
How would your amp recommendations change if the speakers were M2 vs S3mk2 .

looking for mono blocks to match configuration below. Generally speaking I like the warmer side of neutral. Been running S3mk2 for years with PL 160.8. Upgrading to M2s. Seeking a bit more resolution and transparency and tighter bottom end without giving up liquidity and musicality of the Pass. Recently tried Constellation Taurus/ Pictaur with S3s but found them a bit fatiguing. Consensus seems to be that Dag M400 / S250 are best with Wilson. Any thoughts on Soulution 511s? Seems to be some value in used market for Soulution.
thanks

Current Configuration:
Innuous Statement / Roon
MSB REF DAC / F33 / Pre Amp out
Magico M2
PC - Synergistic Research SX
SC - Nordost Valhalla 2
IC - Analysis+ Golden Oval
PC - Shunyata Denali V2
2 dedicated lines

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I heard Solution with S3's a couple times and thought it was great. Detail and response was good to me but may not have enough warmth for you. I didn't find anything fatiguing but it wasn't like Pass either.

If you want that kind of sound on M2’s, the SimAudio 860 V2 is outstanding - and can be bought as a stereo, add another, flick a switch and you’re in mono. Has the slam, dynamics and bass control of Soulution, but has more musicality. I’m looking forward to trying our 860 V2 with the ARC REF6SE. We had one, but sold it during the lockdown and just waiting on our replacement now. I have a hunch that’s going to be a terrific pairing with the M2’s.

Thanks for your replies. Mike, I look forward to hearing that combination on your You Tube channel...(ARC/SIM). I've often considered using a REF6 SE in combination with a more neutral, dynamic and resolving set of amps but was always reticent to go down the path of tubes. Perhaps that's the "soulution" for me. As my friend says, only tubes can provide the "breath of life" I seek.

I've heard conflicting opinions on Constellation versus Soulution. Some say they are both dynamic, transparent and resolving, but lean. Others say the current version of Solution (511/701) is definitely warmer than the Constellation, referring to an audio show ( I think it was Munich) where 2 rooms were both showing Magico, one powered by Constellation and one powered by Soulution.

The M2s will be here shortly, so I'll see how they sound with the Pass before making any changes. My recent upgrade to Nordost V2 cables made a significant improvement and I've heard that Odin is even better so perhaps I can also get what I want by moving up the nordost line.

I've also contemplated removing the Denali V2 entirely from the chain as I've often felt it degraded the overall resolution and transparency just a bit in return for less noise and blacker backgrounds. That said, the Innuos and the MSB both have great power supplies and overall my system is exceptionally quiet so I'm not sure what I'm really getting from the Denali that I don't have already.

Thanks again for you comments

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Originally Posted by m3r

Thanks for your replies. Mike, I look forward to hearing that combination on your You Tube channel...(ARC/SIM). I've often considered using a REF6 SE in combination with a more neutral, dynamic and resolving set of amps but was always reticent to go down the path of tubes. Perhaps that's the "soulution" for me. As my friend says, only tubes can provide the "breath of life" I seek.

I've heard conflicting opinions on Constellation versus Soulution. Some say they are both dynamic, transparent and resolving, but lean. Others say the current version of Solution (511/701) is definitely warmer than the Constellation, referring to an audio show ( I think it was Munich) where 2 rooms were both showing Magico, one powered by Constellation and one powered by Soulution.

The M2s will be here shortly, so I'll see how they sound with the Pass before making any changes. My recent upgrade to Nordost V2 cables made a significant improvement and I've heard that Odin is even better so perhaps I can also get what I want by moving up the nordost line.

I've also contemplated removing the Denali V2 entirely from the chain as I've often felt it degraded the overall resolution and transparency just a bit in return for less noise and blacker backgrounds. That said, the Innuos and the MSB both have great power supplies and overall my system is exceptionally quiet so I'm not sure what I'm really getting from the Denali that I don't have already.

Thanks again for you comments

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Where are you located? You may want to come by for a visit and a listen. I would not consider Soulution warm. Not at all. But constellation is warm. I really think considering the Boulder should be on your list.


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Originally Posted by m3r

Thanks for your replies. Mike, I look forward to hearing that combination on your You Tube channel...(ARC/SIM). I've often considered using a REF6 SE in combination with a more neutral, dynamic and resolving set of amps but was always reticent to go down the path of tubes. Perhaps that's the "soulution" for me. As my friend says, only tubes can provide the "breath of life" I seek.

I've heard conflicting opinions on Constellation versus Soulution. Some say they are both dynamic, transparent and resolving, but lean. Others say the current version of Solution (511/701) is definitely warmer than the Constellation, referring to an audio show ( I think it was Munich) where 2 rooms were both showing Magico, one powered by Constellation and one powered by Soulution.

The M2s will be here shortly, so I'll see how they sound with the Pass before making any changes. My recent upgrade to Nordost V2 cables made a significant improvement and I've heard that Odin is even better so perhaps I can also get what I want by moving up the nordost line.

I've also contemplated removing the Denali V2 entirely from the chain as I've often felt it degraded the overall resolution and transparency just a bit in return for less noise and blacker backgrounds. That said, the Innuos and the MSB both have great power supplies and overall my system is exceptionally quiet so I'm not sure what I'm really getting from the Denali that I don't have already.

Thanks again for you comments

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Not what I want to hear as my Denali v2 is scheduled to arrive tomorrow.
As for the original post, regarding amp, I currently have a Simaudio W8 powering my S5mkii. I am happy with the Magico-Sim combination and have spoken with Mike about moving up to the 860v2, and eventually getting a pair of 860v2 as monoblocks as funds allow. My cabling is also Transparent Ref XL mm2, fwiw. Best.
Dave

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Originally Posted by dbs1217

Not what I want to hear as my Denali v2 is scheduled to arrive tomorrow.
As for the original post, regarding amp, I currently have a Simaudio W8 powering my S5mkii. I am happy with the Magico-Sim combination and have spoken with Mike about moving up to the 860v2, and eventually getting a pair of 860v2 as monoblocks as funds allow. My cabling is also Transparent Ref XL mm2, fwiw. Best.
Dave

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The Denali 6000s/V2 made a major difference in my system at home.


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Originally Posted by m3r

I've also contemplated removing the Denali V2 entirely from the chain as I've often felt it degraded the overall resolution and transparency just a bit in return for less noise and blacker backgrounds. That said, the Innuos and the MSB both have great power supplies and overall my system is exceptionally quiet so I'm not sure what I'm really getting from the Denali that I don't have already.

Thanks again for you comments

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It should be very easy to find out. Take Denali out of the system and see how you feel. I’m interested in your finding. I personally find resolution/transparency go in the same direction as less noise/ blacker background, not the opposite. If it is the opposite, it could be due to other weak link in the chain.

Dave
Do not be concerned. Everything is system dependent. What works in my room and my configuration does not necessarily mean the same for you. Here is what happened to me. When I installed the Taurus monoblocks they required 20amp cords. I had to steal the 20A cord I was using to power the Denali. So I disconnected it and went from the Pass/Denali combo running Synergistic research cables to the Constellation / Nordost combo with no power conditioner at all. As expected, When I went back to the Pass there was huge drop in resolution, transparency and dynamics. So at the end of the day it’s all about system synergy. So enjoy your time with Denali and don’t let my experience influence what worKs for you.

Just heard mike videos on you tube, A5 plus boulder pre and amp.
I never really liked magico sound, but this pairing makes music magical and touching , it really touch your heart!
Bravo mike for the pairing, absolutely amazing


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One thing I’ve learned the hard way, never judge components before hearing them. I know it sounds silly to say out loud but I’ve been guilty of it in the past. How you think something will sound based on similar pieces or even exactly the same with different gear will surprise you. Never disregard something based on your previous feelings about it. Go listen or get a demo in your own system.

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Originally Posted by sakso136

Just heard mike videos on you tube, A5 plus boulder pre and amp.
I never really liked magico sound, but this pairing makes music magical and touching , it really touch your heart!
Bravo mike for the pairing, absolutely amazing


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Thanks. The Boulder with Magico is a magical pairing that just has this incredible musical synergy. Constellation was also excellent, but I think the Boulder is better and since we’ve already sold a few Boulder pieces in only a few months, we’ve already out sold our Constellation sales over 3 years (which was zero). Constellation was a great product and I’m still to this day left scratching my head as to why it never sold. Boulder on the other hand, I have to say, is a level or two above in so many areas. The 866 is a sleeping giant in the integrated world and the 2160 is one of the best stereo amps we have in the store - maybe the best with Magico.


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Originally Posted by Mike

Constellation was also excellent, but I think the Boulder is better and since we’ve already sold a few Boulder pieces in only a few months, we’ve already out sold our Constellation sales over 3 years (which was zero). Constellation was a great product and I’m still to this day left scratching my head as to why it never sold.

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Fascinating - wonder why that is - Constellation wouldn't be the first product that's well built - sounds good - gets good reviews but does not sell. If I was Constellation - I would invest a few $'s to determine why that is.

Lack of promotion and hype ...!

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Originally Posted by Rob181

Fascinating - wonder why that is - Constellation wouldn't be the first product that's well built - sounds good - gets good reviews but does not sell. If I was Constellation - I would invest a few $'s to determine why that is.

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I’m scratching my head too. Funny, before I picked it up, other dealers warned me “good stuff, just doesn’t sell.”


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I've heard Constellation with Magico several times. Liked the sound. Totally unimpressed with the build quality.

Boulder seems to be a solid company that builds terrific products based on sound engineering practices. I particularly admire them for not changing models every 4 years. In fact, I believe the 2060 was in production 15-20 years before being replaced by 2160.

Mike,you’ve praised the new integrated and of course the 2160. How does the 1160 compare to these two?

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Originally Posted by rjc1845

Boulder seems to be a solid company that builds terrific products based on sound engineering practices. I particularly admire them for not changing models every 4 years. In fact, I believe the 2060 was in production 15-20 years before being replaced by 2160.

Mike,you’ve praised the new integrated and of course the 2160. How does the 1160 compare to these two?

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The 1160 is outstanding provided one thing. This one thing you must promise to yourself:

- if you’re going to be going for the 1160, never listen to the 2160!! What you hear cannot be unheard!


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The best amps I have ever heard on Magico, not sure if if it was the S5mkIi or S3mkII were the Zanden 9600.