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AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Recently tried these ...EVP HDR 2"...under my Lumin A1 and, upcoming,under the Lumin's Kenneth Lau PSU. I saw the PF review by Tom Gibbs, 9-1-18,and read a review by Jim Smith of Get Better Sound,fame and ordered 4 of the 2" EVP HDR,units. These are superbly well constructed and finished. At their price, roughly $45 / unit at this size, they are not expensive. I have been a tweak junky most of my audio life.I don't change any of the major equipment that i have but isolators and the like i enjoy seeing if i can improve what i9 hear at a reasonable price, which these certainly are. I started out putting 4 of them under the Lumin A1, and immediately heard a significant improvement in imaging, depth of field, tightness of plucked strings and vocal naturalness...I took 1 of them out and went to a triangle placement, with on in the back and 2 in the front without loosing anything and possibly improving things even more. I have ordered2 more, which should be hear this week and will place those under my Luminary's PSU. I also will be replacing the Symposium platforms under my REL 212 SE subs with the 4" HDR devices.Jim Smith,who also has the REL 212 SE subs, says the change was just an amazing improvement in bass response..stay tunes..Mr. Varney...of AV RoomService,is a very nice gentleman also.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
I bought a set several months back also and have them under a Teac Reference streamer I am trying in place of the Lumin. Also noticed an improvement though the felt tops can be a bit slippery. Haven't tried them under the subs yet or any other gear. I knew Jim had asked about them but didn't know he had actually tried them. They were still $29 when I ordered them.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
I talked with him a few weeks ago after reading his thoughts on them under his RELs.He was very positive about their improvement...
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
I added 3 of the EVP 2" HDR devices under my Kenneth Lau PSU last night and the previous improvements just got better.Definitely a win-win experiment.Will next put the EVP 4" HDR devices under my REL subs..First i have to find someone to help me lift them off the Symposium platforms...stay tuned
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
As an update on my usage of the AV Room Service EVP devices i have recently added 4 of the 4" HDR devices under each of my REL 212 SE subs with very positive results. These replaced the Symposium Ultra platforms previously used that were very good. The EVPs improved the bass significantly more with a marked improvement in the quickness of the bass notes as well as a marked sharpening of the whole soundstage secondary to the non blurring of the lower frequencies.At their cost they are...to me ..a no brainer. The company ..Norman Varney...is a great gentleman to work with also.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Further update..i removed the EVPs under my RELs and placed them under my Tidal speakers after removing the Symposium platforms.The improvement in what i was hearing was not subtle but immediate. Faster more defined bass. Better then what the EVPs under the RELs had brought. Better soundstage with better depth also. I have ordered 8 more of the EVP 4" HDR devices to go back under my RELs. That should sound even better..cant wait.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
calloway,
When using 4 EVPs under your main speakers, did you have to level them out with something? Existing speaker spikes, shims, etc...
I have been emailing with Norman about his EVPs but he can not answer how much of a possible difference in deflection/compression may occur from front to rear, when using them under speakers, where most speakers are heavier in the front than the rear.
I thought he would have some sort of expiriential observation here but he could not give an example of any kind.
He was able to inform me that the weight of my speakers would deflect the EVPs 27%.
Do you you have anything you could add about leveling when using 4 EVPs?
I know weight distribution of any given speaker will be different but just trying to find out if the EVPs may generally have a large or a smaller percentage differences in deflection under these types of situations.
Thanks
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
jriggy..After i installed the EVO HDRs under my Tidal speakers....on carpet....i waited for about 24 hrs for them to settle ....I used both the enclosed leveling device that Norm sends with each order and a linear level i have on hand. I did need to level both of the speakers some ..with shims purchased at Lowes....and positioned under the devices ...on top of the carpet.This worked well as i have not had to re-shim either speaker to this point ..more then a week out.The amount of settling was not significant but may vary with the type of carpet you use ...if any...My guess is that without carpet..there would be very little needed shimming..hope this helps..i have 8 more ordered to be replaced under my REL 212 SE subs where i borrowed them to go under my speakers..hsould be a significant improvement after all is treated..dave
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Yes, thanks for the details, this does help some. Much appreciated!
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
calloway,
actually I was wondering, how much up the shims balanced your particular speakers? Regular wood shims I presume? And did you cut your shims length off once settled?
Thanks
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
I am interested in the EVP and would like to use them under my REL.
Could you please share with us how did you use it with the REL?
Did you place them under the REL cabinet around the down firing woofer without removing the REL's feet?
Are they higher than the REL feet?
Did you place them directly between the floor and the REL?
What is your floor? wood, laminate, tile...etc
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sanbobo
I am interested in the EVP and would like to use them under my REL.
Could you please share with us how did you use it with the REL?
Did you place them under the REL cabinet around the down firing woofer without removing the REL's feet?
Are they higher than the REL feet?
Did you place them directly between the floor and the REL?
What is your floor? wood, laminate, tile...etc
....Sanbobo...i place the EVPs beneath the feet on the REL 212s..i contacted REL about possibly removing the feet and the process was not going to be as easy as thought so i went with them beneath the feet.My room is carpeted but this /that does not affect the way they perform.I have a friend nearby who ordered them after me and who has REL Gibralter subs and also placed them under the feet with great improvements. He has wood floors..He also placed them under his Monoblock amps with great results..hope this helps..dave
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
calloway
....Sanbobo...i place the EVPs beneath the feet on the REL 212s..i contacted REL about possibly removing the feet and the process was not going to be as easy as thought so i went with them beneath the feet.My room is carpeted but this /that does not affect the way they perform.I have a friend nearby who ordered them after me and who has REL Gibralter subs and also placed them under the feet with great improvements. He has wood floors..He also placed them under his Monoblock amps with great results..hope this helps..dave
Did you try to place them under the cabinet directly? (Not under feet)
I did many exterminations with feet and platforms under my REL.
Non so far managed to reduce the cabinet inherent vibrations.
When I touch the REL's cabinet I feel the same level of vibrations no matter what is under the REL.
I am hopping that the EVP will dissipate the vibrations and convert it to heat as they claim.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
sanbobo..the EVPs are not as tall as the REL 212 feet are so in order for me to place them under the sub itself i would have to take the feet off which is not easily possible..dave
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Tremendous products, tremendous value. I now use them under all components and speakers. In addition, I've worked with a metal worker to design custom equipment racks with butcher block shelves, each shelf isolated with four 2" EVPs. The racks have 4" x 4" feet (plates) so the whole rack system can sit on four 4" EVPs.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
calloway
Recently tried these ...EVP HDR 2"...under my Lumin A1 and, upcoming,under the Lumin's Kenneth Lau PSU. I saw the PF review by Tom Gibbs, 9-1-18,and read a review by Jim Smith of Get Better Sound,fame and ordered 4 of the 2" EVP HDR,units. These are superbly well constructed and finished. At their price, roughly $45 / unit at this size, they are not expensive. I have been a tweak junky most of my audio life.I don't change any of the major equipment that i have but isolators and the like i enjoy seeing if i can improve what i9 hear at a reasonable price, which these certainly are. I started out putting 4 of them under the Lumin A1, and immediately heard a significant improvement in imaging, depth of field, tightness of plucked strings and vocal naturalness...I took 1 of them out and went to a triangle placement, with on in the back and 2 in the front without loosing anything and possibly improving things even more. I have ordered2 more, which should be hear this week and will place those under my Luminary's PSU. I also will be replacing the Symposium platforms under my REL 212 SE subs with the 4" HDR devices.Jim Smith,who also has the REL 212 SE subs, says the change was just an amazing improvement in bass response..stay tunes..Mr. Varney...of AV RoomService,is a very nice gentleman also.
$45 dollars? That sounds expensive!
These 2" x 2"x 7/8" isolators are for sale at Amazon for less than $10 for a package of four. I wonder how much different they are. By the way, I use the 4" x 4" under my turntable and they do damp the vibration from the equipment rack.
DiversiTech MP2-E E.V.A. Anti-Vibration Pad, 2" x 2" x 7/8" , Pack of 4 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KAFG8EG..._ZEhtDbRH7RSKG
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Retail for the 2" models is $39 each and the 4" models $105 each unless there has been a very recent price increase I'm not aware of.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vinyl Valet
Retail for the 2" models is $39 each and the 4" models $105 each unless there has been a very recent price increase I'm not aware of.
Are these any different than the $1.53 each (for the 2"x 2") or the $3.61 each (for the 4" x 4") sold by Amazon?
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
The construction and materials are very different. As to the sound, I have not tried the Amazon product.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vinyl Valet
The construction and materials are very different. As to the sound, I have not tried the Amazon product.
Reading from the specs both sites, I can't tell that they are different. Can you elaborate?
BTW, the Amazon product works.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nicoff
$45 dollars? That sounds expensive!
These 2" x 2"x 7/8" isolators are for sale at Amazon for less than $10 for a package of four. I wonder how much different they are. By the way, I use the 4" x 4" under my turntable and they do damp the vibration from the equipment rack.
DiversiTech MP2-E E.V.A. Anti-Vibration Pad, 2" x 2" x 7/8" , Pack of 4
They look similar, but the DiversiTech pads are for heavy machinery and made of foam or cork, where EVPs are made of layers of glass fibers working as leaf springs. If you look at the DiversiTech information you'll find that they for machinery starting at 50 psi, so for four 2" pads your equipment needs to weigh about 400 lbs, and four of the 4" would mean 800 lbs. They don't publish minimum loads, and in order for isolation pads to function, they need to be loaded properly- too much or too little weight and they don't isolate. EVPs are designed specifically for audio equipment- meaning that they control vibrations from sub through the audible bandwidth, and their resonant frequency is below the audio spectrum (actually about 3 Hz.). DiversiTech doesn't publish any lab tests, but if they did, you'd likely find resonant frequencies in the audible spectrum, which is not a good thing for noise control or sound quality.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Welcome to the forum, thank you for joining.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
I just put the 2” x 2” isolators bought from Amazon under my speakers and they work great. I put 4 isolators under each speaker. A less than $13 tweak that works great. That’s what I call good value.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
I’ve used the cheap 2x2 isolator blocks mentioned here for quite some time in various capacities, both alone and in conjunction with Isoacoustics disc style isolators. I was able to recently compare those directly against the EVP under a preamp and a DVD player, each weighing around 10 lbs and in more and less vibration sensitive locations, respectively, on a sturdy Salamander Designs rack. After letting the EVPs settle for several hours — I did one component then both — the all-around improvement was substantial. I’ve found the cheap ones are useful under small peripherals such as a cable box and LPS, as well as to physically isolate and separate cables, but for main gear they are not in the same class as the EVP. I don’t know why the small EVPs have gone from $29 to $45 each in a relatively short time, unless the price of glass fibers has leaped or perhaps to take advantage of good reviews, but at the current price they are still relatively inexpensive as good high end audio tweaks go these days.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
highstream
I don’t know why the small EVPs have gone from $29 to $45 each in a relatively short time, unless the price of glass fibers has leaped or perhaps to take advantage of good reviews, but at the current price they are still relatively inexpensive as good high end audio tweaks go these days.
The cost has incrementally increased as manufacturing costs have risen. Most notably, we now stitch the EVP core so they can't split open if mishandled, the plates are now laser cut, we use a new adhesive for rubber finishes, the painting process is much higher quality, etc. I believe they are still one of the best values in audio. Getting the room to be quite is very revealing!
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Norman Varney
The cost has incrementally increased as manufacturing costs have risen. Most notably, we now stitch the EVP core so they can't split open if mishandled, the plates are now laser cut, we use a new adhesive for rubber finishes, the painting process is much higher quality, etc. I believe they are still one of the best values in audio. Getting the room to be quite is very revealing!
I just installed these under my sub tonight, Norm, and I would agree...what they do is make the room QUIET. It is very revealing, as you say.
The positive impact this has on the presentation cannot be overstated, IMHO....
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
calloway
As an update on my usage of the AV Room Service EVP devices i have recently added 4 of the 4" HDR devices under each of my REL 212 SE subs with very positive results. These replaced the Symposium Ultra platforms previously used that were very good. The EVPs improved the bass significantly more with a marked improvement in the quickness of the bass notes as well as a marked sharpening of the whole soundstage secondary to the non blurring of the lower frequencies.At their cost they are...to me ..a no brainer. The company ..Norman Varney...is a great gentleman to work with also.
Yes, I agree with your findings completely. Just put them under my REL sub tonight. Your description is very accurate.
Reflecting on it, my hypothesis is they quiet down the room considerably.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Puma Cat
Yes, I agree with your findings completely. Just put them under my REL sub tonight. Your description is very accurate.
Reflecting on it, my hypothesis is they quiet down the room considerably.
Was your REL sub making a bunch of racket in your room before you installed the EVP feet under it and now with the EVP feet installed your sub stopped making racket and now your room is more quiet?
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
@elliotg, Sell what you had or sell them generally -- and if the latter, in what capacity? What I'd like to keep track of is when Norm has sales, since they are not announced on his website.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
elliotg
I ordered some to try and liked them so I decided to become a dealer for them and in the first two weeks I have purchased around 100 of them and 3 of my clients have already done their system or part of their system. The EVP's work and they are affordable, don't require some weird break etc.
BTW there is a price increase Jan. 1
After spending hrs of reading praises and the so-called affordable EVP, I got the impression that some who is not afraid of publishing experimental data (including the one written by Bob Katz) is really
doing something good to the audiophile communities through selling excellent products at an affordable price!
I first learnt its 29 usd in 2019. The performance was already reportedly excellent according to many users.
Suddenly I noted that someone mentioned that the price was changed to $35/9 in 2020.
Then $45 each at some point in time before 2021. Ok some still said it’s relatively cheap, compared to perhaps, Iso Acoustic Gaia?
Remember you have to buy eight pieces. Before at $29 each one only have to pay $232 for a pair of speaker stands.
At$45, it’s $360 - ok it’s testing people’s spending power.
No, wait, after reading all reviews, I’m interested to try the product and went to the store... what? $89 each? It’s 2021 July, so after two years, the company tripled the price!!!!
That’s the most quickly markup price I have seen in audio accessories.
It’s now $712 for eight pieces of evp. Some said it’s due to substantial increase of manufacturing cost. God knows... but the “cheaper” materials already gave superb performance why risking a triple price increase to alienate the customers?
Two years ago people praised evp for three reasons. Price, proven effect, seemingly evidence-based.
I have pointed out the seemingly absurd pricing policy change and therefore a change of branding the product. After waves of professional endorsements by Jim, Bob Katz and so on, it has now repositioned itself as high end products which regardless of the actual cost, the price is now even more expensive than Iso Acoustics Gaia.
How about the other two reasons?
Like all audio accessories, their effects are actually conditioned by the real listening variables including the Structural construction Of walls and floors and so on. Bob Katz’s paper actually report very complicated findings though he stressed EVP is better. Simply put, there is no absolute guarantee that EVP could be better than other isolating devices you’re using across all frequency spectrum in your real world.
This is not to discredit the product. In fact I really want to try it. But I am uncomfortable with the shift of company direction. If you’re really want to try, I also suggest you buy the article written by Bob Katz and the commentary on Bob Katz article in stereophile.
Another story: according to many “testimonials” across the web, many people seem to get email replies directly from the company owner, who helped them addressing their individual concerns. Or maybe my impression is incorrect. Nonetheless my experience is that I wrote a detailed email asking very specific uses of EVP including the platform ones. All I got a day later is obviously a copy and paste reply. It doesn’t even answer my questions about the platform version. I guess it somehow reflects what’s going on in the company, or the company shit of direction to, high end products?
The esoteric market of speaker isolators has been dominated by high price policy. Some always sell their products at ridiculous high price. So when I first investigate EVP I was thrilled that someone is doing the business differently. That happens ten years ago when Weizhi, a Taiwan company made and sold graphite-based isolators at very cheap prices, but then quickly widely praised by many international reviews. The result? They increased the price dramatically and are now selling those 480 usd for four isolators. Many “ordinary” audiophiles were angry since they couldn’t afford them anymore. But who knows? They think that is the better business model.
EVP according to many testimonials should perform well in many conditions . But after knowing the new tripled price, oh well ...
Ps: I have Weizhi isolators and I know they work very well.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chacha7
After spending hrs of reading praises and the so-called affordable EVP, I got the impression that some who is not afraid of publishing experimental data (including the one written by Bob Katz) is really
doing something good to the audiophile communities through selling excellent products at an affordable price!
I first learnt its 29 usd in 2019. The performance was already reportedly excellent according to many users.
Suddenly I noted that someone mentioned that the price was changed to $35/9 in 2020.
Then $45 each at some point in time before 2021. Ok some still said it’s relatively cheap, compared to perhaps, Iso Acoustic Gaia?
Remember you have to buy eight pieces. Before at $29 each one only have to pay $232 for a pair of speaker stands.
At$45, it’s $360 - ok it’s testing people’s spending power.
No, wait, after reading all reviews, I’m interested to try the product and went to the store... what? $89 each? It’s 2021 July, so after two years, the company tripled the price!!!!
That’s the most quickly markup price I have seen in audio accessories.
It’s now $712 for eight pieces of evp. Some said it’s due to substantial increase of manufacturing cost. God knows... but the “cheaper” materials already gave superb performance why risking a triple price increase to alienate the customers?
Two years ago people praised evp for three reasons. Price, proven effect, seemingly evidence-based.
I have pointed out the seemingly absurd pricing policy change and therefore a change of branding the product. After waves of professional endorsements by Jim, Bob Katz and so on, it has now repositioned itself as high end products which regardless of the actual cost, the price is now even more expensive than Iso Acoustics Gaia.
How about the other two reasons?
Like all audio accessories, their effects are actually conditioned by the real listening variables including the Structural construction Of walls and floors and so on. Bob Katz’s paper actually report very complicated findings though he stressed EVP is better. Simply put, there is no absolute guarantee that EVP could be better than other isolating devices you’re using across all frequency spectrum in your real world.
This is not to discredit the product. In fact I really want to try it. But I am uncomfortable with the shift of company direction. If you’re really want to try, I also suggest you buy the article written by Bob Katz and the commentary on Bob Katz article in stereophile.
Another story: according to many “testimonials” across the web, many people seem to get email replies directly from the company owner, who helped them addressing their individual concerns. Or maybe my impression is incorrect. Nonetheless my experience is that I wrote a detailed email asking very specific uses of EVP including the platform ones. All I got a day later is obviously a copy and paste reply. It doesn’t even answer my questions about the platform version. I guess it somehow reflects what’s going on in the company, or the company shit of direction to, high end products?
The esoteric market of speaker isolators has been dominated by high price policy. Some always sell their products at ridiculous high price. So when I first investigate EVP I was thrilled that someone is doing the business differently. That happens ten years ago when Weizhi, a Taiwan company made and sold graphite-based isolators at very cheap prices, but then quickly widely praised by many international reviews. The result? They increased the price dramatically and are now selling those 480 usd for four isolators. Many “ordinary” audiophiles were angry since they couldn’t afford them anymore. But who knows? They think that is the better business model.
EVP according to many testimonials should perform well in many conditions . But after knowing the new tripled price, oh well ...
Ps: I have Weizhi isolators and I know they work very well.
I think it's important to understand the impact the pandemic has had on anything being manufactured today. The cost of raw materials, logistics, manufacturing, quality control, quality assurance (which is not the same thing a quality control), packaging, shipping have all gone up considerably because of the pandemic. Car prices, both new and used, are up something like 45% in what is generally an extremely competitive market with respect to pricing. I know from audio manufacturers first-hand that their prices for parts, components, raw materials, etc., etc. have really taken a hit from the pandemic.
Also...Norm Varney is incredibly knowledgeable, experienced, and also..a REALLY nice guy. So, if you have any questions, my recommendation is to call him on the phone and talk with him directly. Cheers.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
I have found that many of these esoteric type products have already raised their prices pre-covid.
Not sure what is going to happen with the pricing once the current increased prices of raw materials to the manufacturers actually winds it's way down to consumer level.
It often seems that prices are increased based on the popularity of the product.
Let's face it, "Hi End" audio is exactly that and the price of admission is high.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jadedavid
I have found that many of these esoteric type products have already raised their prices pre-covid.
Not sure what is going to happen with the pricing once the current increased prices of raw materials to the manufacturers actually winds it's way down to consumer level.
It often seems that prices are increased based on the popularity of the product.
Let's face it, "Hi End" audio is exactly that and the price of admission is high.
I just spoke to Norm at A/V Service today and in our conversation, he mentioned that since the pandemic hit, the price of steel has gone up considerably.
That statement is backed by this article which states the price of steel is up....200% in 2021.
Steel prices 2021 chart: Price of steel up 200%. When will the bubble pop? | Fortune
This is consistent with my previous post about the cost of raw materials increasing considerably since the start of the pandemic.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
I do agree that the pandemic has hit all industries hard and everything now is more expensive. I do however seriously doubt we will ever see audiophile product prices adjust as the rest of the world starts to lower their prices.
Can you imagine audiophile manufactures sending out a price decrease notice!!!! I seriously doubt it. Hopefully down the line I will gladly like to be proven wrong.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Puma Cat
I just spoke to Norm at A/V Service today and in our conversation, he mentioned that since the pandemic hit, the price of steel has gone up considerably.
That statement is backed by this article which states the price of steel is up....
200% in 2021.
Steel prices 2021 chart: Price of steel up 200%. When will the bubble pop? | Fortune
This is consistent with my previous post about the cost of raw materials increasing considerably since the start of the pandemic.
I didn't think the A/V decouplers were made of steel.
Didn't Covid start in 2020?
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Thanks for explaining the possible reasons behind the tripling pricing. But To be honest, I’m only an experienced audiophile, not a manufacturer, which means most of us have no basis to judge. My writing of the original post was meant to share with the company what an ordinary audiophile has experienced at this point in time. You could also judge to what extent my feelings are applicable to people who just started to know EVP two weeks or a month ago. My wish, if any, is helping the company to know there may be some negative feelings slowly growing (or may be not) no matter whether the triple markup is due to raw materials increase.
Ok here’s the key points that create unfavorable feelings :
1. I bought Dutch 8c Speaker last year. They have a 10% markup since three years. That was 2020. No further markup. Their speaker stands made of steel is sold at the same price. Yes they were behind production at certain points last year, but overall I didn’t have this “what? Doubled the price?”.
2. Other isolators including iso acoustics, or even Herbie Audio Labs, didn’t have sharp rise in price.
3. I certainly know every company is different. If a company really need triple the price for reasons pee customers will never know anyway, it’s a problem for this company. In our case, it’s because most audiophiles have feelings from 1 and 2 (mild price increase, seemingly using similar materials), but are now facing a firm tripling their price.
4. Some audiophiles also witnessed similar drastic price markup thing happened to certain brands in the past. This colored our interpretationS, even if these interpretations may be wrong to your company.
5. The story of the EVP in the internet has a “shape”. The YouTube layman approach videos, easy to understand test graphs, the passions in words, the “affordable” word of mouth, the magical discovery of a affordable superior products and so on - all converged to present a pre- triple-pricing image of the product. This company has passion for the ordinary customers. They and Herbie Audio Lab has some similarity but Av roomservices go further to provide more test result. More theories.
6. Honestly, i just want to share with you that ALL the above scenarios will create bad impressions at worst, wrong understanding of the company’s real difficulties and so on - the tripled pricing is in conflict with all the good narratives and company images still circulating in the internet. I don’t know the solution. But I have a feeling the contradictory feelings should somehow be developing, and will go on.
7. Of course if going upscaling the market is the original desirable goal, all the above is meaningless to decision makers or PR.
I guess I have said truly enough. I personally hope the price increase is really a temporary raw material pricing problem, and prices will be reverted to normal later. But if it doesn’t go that way, it won’t be the end of the world 😅
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jadedavid
I didn't think the A/V decouplers were made of steel.
Didn't Covid start in 2020?
The EVPs are two steel layers that sandwich a fiberglass layer. The wholesale price of steel has doubled in the last year; you can do the math from there.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Thank you for that clarification. I didn't know.
Yes, with that much steel involved I can see why he had to at least triple the cost.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
I thought EVPs offered good value at $45. They priced themselves out of the market at $89 each. As commodity prices come back down, I guessing the $89 price will remain the same.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Strange. In April, Norm explained the price increase to me as introductory price vs regular one. I purchased slightly blemished production, which kept the price as what it was.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Bottom line is that for any product, prices always go up, they never go down. Doesn't matter what the industry is. Just look at the prices of used cars these days.
No one's arm is being twisted to buy any product.
It's up to each person to decide for themselves what constitutes a value proposition.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Your example of used car prices right now misses that new car prices are being pushed up by the shortage of computer chips, a direct result of the pandemic. In turn, that has pushed demand into the used car market, with the resulting rise in prices. The used car market, more than most, is affected by supply and demand. There’s no reason why prices won’t eventually come down once new car supply returns — and inflation stabilizes or comes down. The NY Times ran an article about it a couple of days ago: The Car Market '''Is Insane''': Dealers Can'''t Keep Up With Demand - The New York Times
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
highstream
Your example of used car prices right now misses that new car prices are being pushed up by the shortage of computer chips, a direct result of the pandemic. In turn, that has pushed demand into the used car market, with the resulting rise in prices. The used car market, more than most, is affected by supply and demand. There’s no reason why prices won’t eventually come down once new car supply returns — and inflation stabilizes or comes down. The NY Times ran an article about it a couple of days ago:
The Car Market '''Is Insane''': Dealers Can'''t Keep Up With Demand - The New York Times
The bottom line is that car prices, durable goods, whatever, over the long term, only go up in price over time, never down. Same for audio products. Look at the price of the Linn Sondek compared to its price in 1980.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
we are stuck in raising compexity :) it never gets simple again...
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
@PumaCat Spoken like someone who’s only lived through good times in a country where printing money, i.e., intentional inflation, is national policy. At best, it’s a circular argument. At worst, it doesn’t account for recessions and depressions and other seriously slack periods, where even if nominal prices remain the same or even increase, discounts, sales, rebates and package offers lower real prices.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Puma Cat
The bottom line is that car prices, durable goods, whatever, over the long term, only go up in price over time, never down. Same for audio products. Look at the price of the Linn Sondek compared to its price in 1980.
I remember back then, as my shop - Audition in Bhm., AL. - was one of Linn's Top 10 dealers - according to Ivor Tiefenbrun...
It was only $795 (!), and, IMO - the best at any price until the Goldmund Studio - at a much higher price - came along a few years later...
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
An LP-12 is a great table and can be modified to even greater heights ..
Regards
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
The first attempt to explain the price increase was based on the price inflations of 'steel', but this contradicts with another explanation of "everthing's price go up, in the long run'.
The second explanation explains every markup in the 'private market'. Resorting to the 'raw material' explanation is actually not necessarily anymore. Forget this according to this 'market' explanation. By the same token, please also forget 'introductory price' vs. 'regular price' explanation. (no one knows the real reason anyway).
Simply put, in a private market, it's always supply and demand that determines the price. I increase and increase and increase the price up to a point that the overall profit drops consistently. Then the price may go down to attract more customers back.
But I just noted the company owner didn't say anything (probably a wise decision), and it's just one member constantly defending the price increase with different theories with intense enthusiasm - is he working for the company? Well, in fact, it doesn't matter.
Before learning of the tripled prices, I was just thinking that affordable isolators with excellent performance could be sold to many more audiophiles in the world and may make even more profits than selling less expensive units to a smaller group of consumers. I *thought* it's a new way of doing business.
But if tripling or further price increase (as 'everything's price will increase in the long run) is the company's business strategies, please go ahead. If the 'price increase' decision is based on some serious consideration on the new projected profit outcome, and if it can be achieved, that's very good for the firm (not necessarily for those audiophiles who can't afford them - but doing so maximize profits according to the plan). Yet for the same inflated price range, there're many equally persuasive competitors like Symposium, Finite Elemente, Harmonix, Townshend, Weizhi (more famous in Asia) and the list is almost endless. Wish you every success in this situation indeed.
BTW, I am using Linn LP12 from the 1980s. Not a lot of vintage gears stay in the market with strong or even higher resale value. For solid state amp - most are out of spec. Of course some don't care about spec. But most vintage gears are not Linn. Still LP12 is very special (and not Linn's speakers, let alone Linn's digital products), which seems not to be suitable for comparison with the case here, unless you seriously believe EVP could follow Linn' LP12s path.
Lastly, I still like EVP as a product. It pose challenges to existing way of doing isolations, and may stimulate more creative design of other companies. But I am looking for something else for fun.
PS: I remember that there may be only a handful of studies that examine the effects of different materials on isolating the speakers from different speaker stands, one of which is by Stereophile's John Atkinson dated back into 199x. That article has successfully popularized Blu-Tac in audiophile communities for almost a decade (and in fact still useful if you don't want to buy expensive isolators), as a few other 'special' acoustics isolators perform less impressive than Blu-Tac. Putting aside the older technology, no more studies like this are available. Bob Katz compared EVP to, a piece of wood. It's not comparing a wide range of isolators with a controlled environment like what John Atkinson did. Simply put, everyone says they are the best. Forum discussion about which one is the best is leading nowhere unless you tried them all and have sophisticated accelerometer and testing tools, since in reality your unique listening environment and unique gears could interact with different isolators in a very complex manner. Why there isn't any serious tests anymore? I see this happening in the area of speaker measurements, and this help a lot. So good luck with all of our search for isolators.
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Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chacha7
The first attempt to explain the price increase was based on the price inflations of 'steel', but this contradicts with another explanation of "everthing's price go up, in the long run'.
The second explanation explains every markup in the 'private market'. Resorting to the 'raw material' explanation is actually not necessarily anymore. Forget this according to this 'market' explanation. By the same token, please also forget 'introductory price' vs. 'regular price' explanation. (no one knows the real reason anyway).
Simply put, in a private market, it's always supply and demand that determines the price. I increase and increase and increase the price up to a point that the overall profit drops consistently. Then the price may go down to attract more customers back.
But I just noted the company owner didn't say anything (probably a wise decision), and it's just one member constantly defending the price increase with different theories with intense enthusiasm - is he working for the company? Well, in fact, it doesn't matter.
if you're referring to me, I don't work for A/V Roomservice. I've bought their products at their prices current at the time, just like anyone else.
Furthermore, I'm not defending anything with respect to price increases with enthusiasm, I'm just stating facts.
Here are the facts: EVPs work very effectively with respect to their design brief, and their price is $89.
Folks can decide for themselves if that constitutes a value proposition or not.
As mentioned before, no one's arm is being twisted here to buy anything.