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July 1, 2017, 08:04 PM #1
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Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Hi all,
Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome to the forum. I wonder if you might be able to help me.
Earlier this year, in part thanks to views here, I bought a Nord One Up NC500 power amp to drive my Proac Response One SCs. Currently it is fed from the pre outs of a Linn Majik DSI, and it has made a huge improvement. However, I still feel the sound is a bit lean, lacking midrange body, and verging on hard with certain types of music. I have a feeling the Linn pre is to blame.
I wondered if putting a suitable tube pre between the Linn (via line outs) and the Nord might add some much desired warmth, body and liquidity to the sound. If so, does anyone have any suggestions for something, used or new, up to GBP £1500?
Many thanks in advance.
All best,
J
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July 1, 2017, 11:35 PM #2
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Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
I had good luck with the Modwright LS-100 and the Nord. You should be able to find it or the slightly less expensive SWL-9.0 in the UK for in your budget range. What tube preamp brands would normally be available to you in your area of the UK? Either in person or on-line. With either of the Modwright's, like most tube preamps, you will need to get the cheap Chinese or Russian tubes supplied by the manufacturer out of the way.
Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack
Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810
Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.
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July 2, 2017, 03:01 AM #3
Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Have you considered an integrated along the lines of a second hand PrimLuna, Triode Corporation or Line Magnetic. This will really give you a taste of the tube world that is a great sound without breaking the bank & also give you some valuable options/experience too.
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July 2, 2017, 04:17 AM #4
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Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Thanks Jack, the Modwrights look great. How would you describe the sound with the Nord? Also which op amp are you using?
I have to say I'm new to this tube world so not sure what's out there, or what the various options would do for the sound - will do some research on U.K. options, any suggestions gratefully received.
If buying second hand, would it be best to immediately replace the tubes? Do they wear out?
Thanks again,
J
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July 2, 2017, 04:22 AM #5
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Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Thanks sharkmouth - are you suggesting I replace the Nord with an integrated? My only reservation would be power - I got the Nord as a high power, future-proof investment that will drive pretty much any speaker in any sized room that I move into. Tube integrateds mostly seem quite low power, but does that matter with tubes?
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July 2, 2017, 05:26 AM #6
Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Croft Micro 25R Pre-amplifier
http://www.croftacoustics.co.uk/micro25_R.html
One of the most musical amps you will hear anywhere. Price £1400
Even the Micro 25 Pre at half the price might do the job.
Anything from Glenn Croft is worth recommending.2 Channel Stereo :
Custom Win10 Transport | Mutec MC-3+ USB | Lampizator Amber | Acoustic Portrait Thiyaga | ATC SCM20PSL + JL Audio E-Sub e110
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July 2, 2017, 07:41 AM #7
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Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Hi Nikhil, wow those Croft amps look a bit special. Beautiful. Minor gripe would be lack of remote (the amp will also occasionally serve TV and film duties) and dual mono volume control. Though reassuring that money is going on sound, not convenience. I just read Glenn does custom mods - will drop him a line on Monday and see what's possible. Thanks.
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July 2, 2017, 08:07 AM #8
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July 2, 2017, 08:13 AM #9
Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Welcome! Don't get fooled by the low prices.
These are very good amps that will sit happily in any system.
Another well regarded company is Icon Audio - point to point wired tube gear at reasonable prices.
LA4 MKIII Preamplifier
http://www.iconaudio.com/main-produc...pre-amplifier/
Regards2 Channel Stereo :
Custom Win10 Transport | Mutec MC-3+ USB | Lampizator Amber | Acoustic Portrait Thiyaga | ATC SCM20PSL + JL Audio E-Sub e110
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July 2, 2017, 10:46 AM #10
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July 2, 2017, 02:05 PM #11
Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Can't say that I do. But since you are pairing the pre with the Nords I would recommend auditioning before buying.
2 Channel Stereo :
Custom Win10 Transport | Mutec MC-3+ USB | Lampizator Amber | Acoustic Portrait Thiyaga | ATC SCM20PSL + JL Audio E-Sub e110
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July 3, 2017, 01:50 PM #12
Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
there is a fabulous modwright 9.0 anniversary here , in fact i had it in my system for a few weeks and it was pretty good
http://www.bd-audio.co.uk/used-and-ex-demonstration/1]bel canto EIX/ F5 monoblocks . BC cd2, tannoy eaton legacy 2]bel canto pre 5 ,arcam a85 , black ice modded dac
modded dac , marantz sa8005, Verity audio Rienzi
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July 3, 2017, 01:52 PM #13
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July 3, 2017, 01:58 PM #14
Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Any Conrad-Johnson preamp should do the trick.
Adam
Speakers: Magico M3
Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer
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July 3, 2017, 02:27 PM #15
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July 3, 2017, 02:29 PM #16
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Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
As luck would have it, I have an Icon dealer 3 miles from me, so will head in there for a listen. They also have a second hand Audio Innovations, so will compare. Has anyone here had experience of their amps?
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July 3, 2017, 02:30 PM #17
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July 3, 2017, 02:31 PM #18
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July 3, 2017, 08:40 PM #19
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Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
One good thing about the Nord is that it is small and light enough to carry with you to stores for demos.
Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack
Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810
Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.
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July 4, 2017, 04:15 PM #20
Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Is there something about the sound of the Linn? I have a customer with one (different amp and speakers) and he's just commissioned a 6SN7 preamp from me to insert into his lineup. Says he can't live without tubes somewhere.
Dan Santoni
Authorized service for (in no particular order) - Copland, Cary, Unison Research, Allnic, Modwright, Ayon, Hegel, Belles, Aesthetix, Coincident, Zesto and a whole bunch more
Custom Manufacturer of Blackdog HiFi.
www.dtsaudioelectronics.com
www.blackdoghifi.com
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July 4, 2017, 05:55 PM #21
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Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Hi Blackdog, I only have experience of the Linn MAJIK DSi, so cannot say this applies to Linn products in general, but its sound compared to other brands I have owned is quite dry, analytical and cold. It really lays the music bare, with a huge amount of detail and a big 3D soundstage, but it is quite unforgiving - especially with not so well recorded music. With my speakers, it can sound absolutely stunning with well-recorded classical music, but I find that vocals are sometimes a bit flat and grainy and rock, house and techno can sound a bit lean and lack fun.
I have read several reviews of the DSi and all seem to share my experience. One reviewer suggested it sounds a bit 'grey' and I think this captures it perfectly. However, I have also read that it is the internal amplifier that lets the DSi down, with most people suggesting the streamer is excellent - something my (long suffering) girlfriend and I can confirm having done blind a/b tests against an Auralic. The Space Optimisation software is also really, really good - I don't think I'd want to live without it now - it makes a massive difference. Also having an all-in-one DAC, streamer and phono stage with built-in room correction is really convenient.
This is why I wanted to experiment with a warmer tube pre amplifier, bypassing the DSi amp.
So I will have a look at your website...
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July 4, 2017, 06:02 PM #22
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Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
A tube preamp should give you the warmth you are seeking except for maybe the ones based on the 6H30 tube. Depending on what you see and hear with you audition the Icon preamps look like they may be the ticket at a reasonable price. With the LS-100 I could tailor the sound by changing the two 6SN7 tube brands. There are still a great number of NOS 6SN7 tubes available at fair prices.
Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack
Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810
Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.
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July 5, 2017, 03:10 AM #23
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July 5, 2017, 03:18 AM #24
Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Adam
Speakers: Magico M3
Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer
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July 5, 2017, 04:17 AM #25
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Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Thanks Elberoth - I really like the look of the Lumins, though unfortunately none of their products seem to have inputs for other devices (unless I missed it?) and if I'm replacing the Linn, I'll also need a phono input (or line in and separate phonos stage) and optical for the TV.
Would be great to know of any other streamer pres that will do that - I guess Naim NAC 172 would be one?
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July 5, 2017, 05:38 AM #26
Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Aurender A10 has an optical, but still no phono (or line input). It is also much warmer sounding than Linn.
That (or Lumin) may your next step if the preamp alone doesn't do the trick.Adam
Speakers: Magico M3
Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer
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July 5, 2017, 08:48 AM #27
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September 5, 2017, 06:07 PM #28
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Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
Hi all, thanks to your suggestions, so far I have tried a Croft Micro 25 and Icon Audio La4 Mkii. I love the detail and separation of the Croft, and the fullness and warmth of the Icon. Is there a way of getting the best of both worlds? The Icon is a bit too soft, with plucked instruments lacking bite. But the Croft seems lean after the Icon. Could tube rolling the Icon give me more snap? Or are the changes from tubes not that marked? Thanks in advance for suggestions. J
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September 5, 2017, 06:14 PM #29
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Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
If it was using off the shelf Chinese or Russian current production 6SN7 tubes then yes you can change the voicing quite a bit with various NOS tubes. Also some change is possible by swapping out the rectifier.
Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack
Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810
Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.
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September 6, 2017, 02:38 AM #30
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September 6, 2017, 09:35 AM #31
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Re: Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?
The ones most commonly used to get the sound you are looking for would be Sylvania's from the 50-60's. Behind that would be Tung Sol or GE. The better Mullard or Amperex rectifiers should be easier to find there.
Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack
Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810
Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.
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September 8, 2017, 03:36 AM #32
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
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I or anyone interested should see if FEDEX offers a domestic "LAST MINUTE RATE" for shipping heavy items within CONUS. Have no clue at this point - but when I have some time, I'll check. ...
Shipping Overseas 498 pounds w/3...