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  1. #1
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    Preamplifier Decision

    Preamplifier choices: Pass Labs XP-22 or VAC Renaissance Mk V.

    Anyone compare the two? I am not looking for recommendations beyond these two. Amplifier TBD or TBD MKII Yes, I know what amp makes a difference but I am not there yet. Speakers are Sound Lab Majestic 545PX.

    I listen to a lot of female vocals with guitar or piano. I like full-bodied midrange and good dynamics but not in my face. Detail is the key to authentic sound and extended harmonics. But I do not like etched or exaggerated detail. Sources would all be digital.

    Thanks for any help.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Can’t comment on the VAC, but I love my Pass XP-22. I upgraded from the XP-20 to the XP-22, and the improvement was immediately obvious. One point is the XP-20 had a cheap, throw away interconnect cable, and Pass must have realized that. The XP-22 has a much better interconnect cable that I am sure helps it’s performance. I had an upgraded interconnect on my XP-20, and the XP-22 still sounds better.
    Bud

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  3. #3
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Thanks Bud,

    By interconnect do you mean the power cable between the separate power supply and the main control box?
    Contributor to stereotimes.com

  4. #4
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Yes, the cable between power supply and preamp.
    Bud

    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  5. #5

    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Can’t comment on the VAC, but I love my Pass XP-22. I upgraded from the XP-20 to the XP-22, and the improvement was immediately obvious. One point is the XP-20 had a cheap, throw away interconnect cable, and Pass must have realized that. The XP-22 has a much better interconnect cable that I am sure helps it’s performance. I had an upgraded interconnect on my XP-20, and the XP-22 still sounds better.
    Does XP-22 use the same type of DB-25 umbilical cable as XP-20? Or they are different? Thanks in advance.

  6. #6
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    It is a completely different cable with different connectors. I have forgotten how many pins it has, but only has what it needs to connect both chassis.
    Bud

    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  7. #7
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    XP-22 rear.

    XP-22_rp-scaled.jpg
    Contributor to stereotimes.com

  8. #8
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Bumping this up for more comments.
    Contributor to stereotimes.com

  9. #9
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    Preamplifier Decision

    If it’s between these two, XP22. I love the bigger VAC stuff like Master and Statement. But unless you have VAC amps, the XP22 is just a superb preamp. Only one problem…..you’ll need to have the patience of Job. Pass is running 10-12 months for any new orders for any Pass product.

    Sonically, the XP22 has body, touch or warmth, dimensionality and a low noise floor. It’s in my opinion one of the best out there for the money.


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  10. #10
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Mike,

    Thanks for the information discouraging as it is. The Master and Statement are many bumps up in price form the VAC Renaissance and Pass XP-22.
    Contributor to stereotimes.com

  11. #11
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Buy a used cj GAT and you will be so happy
    Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
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  12. #12
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    Buy a used cj GAT and you will be so happy
    Agreed.


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  13. #13
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    Preamplifier Decision

    Or a Kondo KSL M77 Ongaku Pre…. ?


    I see that you are not looking for other recommendation than Pass and Vac. I never heard any Vac preamp or power amp. And I still give you other choices not to get you follow this route but for pleasure of discussion…. Preamplifier Decision

    The current Kondo version is the KSL M7 Heritage.
    It all depends on what you are looking for.
    The CJ GAT has fabulous dynamics and details. Probably one of the most dynamic preamp I can think of. Only some Naim Audio’s will be similar, but they are designed for a full Naim system.
    The Ongaku pre has more « flesh » and is very hard to beat when it comes to naturalness of truth of timbre. It has a purity and delicacy that is just impossible to reach for any SS or hybrid design.
    If you look for a huge 3D scene, the Shindo Giscours is unique. But not the most dynamic.
    All preamps mentioned ( CJ / Kondo / Shindo ) have very high gains and need amps with adjustable gain.
    Pass Labs make great preamps in terms of neutrality. But to me they sound a bit « sterile ».
    I am an advocate of the preamp giving the tone of the system so I like preamps with a strong personality. But the Pass will be a great choice if you favors neutrality over all the other parameters of sound.
    On the neutral side but not boring at all, imho you have modern Kondo’s and all Nagra preamps from the PLP to the actual ones.


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  14. #14
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome W View Post
    Or a Kondo KSL M77 Ongaku Pre…. ?


    I see that you are not looking for other recommendation than Pass and Vac. I never heard any Vac preamp or power amp. And I still give you other choices not to get you follow this route but for pleasure of discussion…. Preamplifier Decision

    The current Kondo version is the KSL M7 Heritage.
    It all depends on what you are looking for.
    The CJ GAT has fabulous dynamics and details. Probably one of the most dynamic preamp I can think of. Only some Naim Audio’s will be similar, but they are designed for a full Naim system.
    The Ongaku pre has more « flesh » and is very hard to beat when it comes to naturalness of truth of timbre. It has a purity and delicacy that is just impossible to reach for any SS or hybrid design.
    If you look for a huge 3D scene, the Shindo Giscours is unique. But not the most dynamic.
    All preamps mentioned ( CJ / Kondo / Shindo ) have very high gains and need amps with adjustable gain.
    Pass Labs make great preamps in terms of neutrality. But to me they sound a bit « sterile ».
    I am an advocate of the preamp giving the tone of the system so I like preamps with a strong personality. But the Pass will be a great choice if you favors neutrality over all the other parameters of sound.
    On the neutral side but not boring at all, imho you have modern Kondo’s and all Nagra preamps from the PLP to the actual ones.


    Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
    The Kondo doesn't seem to be in the same financial world unless I am thinking of a different Pre?
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  15. #15
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    A used 77 will be near the price of a new GAT.


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  16. #16
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    In that price range, why not consider the brand new Boulder 812? If it is anything like the 1110, should be really good.

  17. #17
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Any thoughts on BAT? VK-80 or 90?
    Rob
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  18. #18
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    I know most people here won't agree, but I think McIntosh is worth a look. I am extremely happy with my new C49. Performance the C49 and C53 are identical, and over the top in my view. The 53 adds a few extra "features". Blue meters, EQ, extra input, the DA2 DAC module versus the DA1 standard for the 49. Modular DAC design is outstanding!

    Flexibility and usability the Mc's are in a different world. Two chassis designs and being able to rename, adjust, save settings, etc., per input. Of course, easily turn off unused inputs! The remote is spectacular also.
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  19. #19
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    I know most people here won't agree, but I think McIntosh is worth a look...
    i am very curious as to why this is so

    do you think it is actual performance versus the other brands often discussed here ...or is it simply a perception of mcIntosh being a life-style, mid-fi brand ...or both?

    wonder where mcIntosh would fall on mike's brand perception scale -- tier 4?
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  20. #20
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by aKnyght View Post
    i am very curious as to why this is so

    do you think it is actual performance versus the other brands often discussed here ...or is it simply a perception of mcIntosh being a life-style, mid-fi brand ...or both?

    wonder where mcIntosh would fall on mike's brand perception scale -- tier 4?
    Tier 3. I’ve owned more Mc than most folks here. Love it, for what it is.


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  21. #21
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Tier 3. I’ve owned more Mc than most folks here. Love it, for what it is.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    sounds about right...

    how would you compare mcIntosh to the VAC renaissance mk-v being considered by the OP? for the purposes of an apples-to-apples comparison, let's say something like the Mc c22/c70 which is also a tubed pre-amp; however, it is ~half the price, so maybe not a true apples-to-apples comp).
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  22. #22
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by aKnyght View Post
    sounds about right...

    how would you compare mcIntosh to the VAC renaissance mk-v being considered by the OP? for the purposes of an apples-to-apples comparison, let's say something like the Mc c22/c70 which is also a tubed pre-amp; however, it is ~half the price, so maybe not a true apples-to-apples comp).
    I don’t know those Mc pieces, so a little hard to comment. A 2500 is a better reference for me. I always found the 2500 veiled compared to say a VAC Ren V. We took a 2500 on trade for a VAC pre.

    If I was shopping in that budget: Pass XP12 or XP22 for me.


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  23. #23
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    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I don’t know those Mc pieces, so a little hard to comment. A 2500 is a better reference for me. I always found the 2500 veiled compared to say a VAC Ren V. We took a 2500 on trade for a VAC pre.

    If I was shopping in that budget: Pass XP12 or XP22 for me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    True, however more of a comparison would be the C49 or C53 because the Pass is SS. McIntosh is either a love or a hate thing. People who love Mc won't even consider other. I grew up in Binghamton so I definitely am in the love McIntosh base .

    Feature and usability wise they offer an awful lot versus others in their range. For my old ears I also believe they sound fantastic!
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  24. #24

    Re: Preamplifier Decision

    U can try Nuprime Omnia
    They use of digital signal processing, NuPrime acoustics have prepared several equalizer modes: Flat, Loudness 1, Loudness 2, Loudness 3, Rock, Jazz, Pop, Classic. Single room, multiroom, remote control, application - control what you want, what you want, when you want.

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Preamplifier Decision

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