Thread: Preamplifier Decision

Preamplifier choices: Pass Labs XP-22 or VAC Renaissance Mk V.

Anyone compare the two? I am not looking for recommendations beyond these two. Amplifier TBD or TBD MKII Yes, I know what amp makes a difference but I am not there yet. Speakers are Sound Lab Majestic 545PX.

I listen to a lot of female vocals with guitar or piano. I like full-bodied midrange and good dynamics but not in my face. Detail is the key to authentic sound and extended harmonics. But I do not like etched or exaggerated detail. Sources would all be digital.

Thanks for any help.

Can’t comment on the VAC, but I love my Pass XP-22. I upgraded from the XP-20 to the XP-22, and the improvement was immediately obvious. One point is the XP-20 had a cheap, throw away interconnect cable, and Pass must have realized that. The XP-22 has a much better interconnect cable that I am sure helps it’s performance. I had an upgraded interconnect on my XP-20, and the XP-22 still sounds better.

Thanks Bud,

By interconnect do you mean the power cable between the separate power supply and the main control box?

Yes, the cable between power supply and preamp.

It is a completely different cable with different connectors. I have forgotten how many pins it has, but only has what it needs to connect both chassis.

XP-22 rear.

XP-22_rp-scaled.jpg

Bumping this up for more comments.

If it’s between these two, XP22. I love the bigger VAC stuff like Master and Statement. But unless you have VAC amps, the XP22 is just a superb preamp. Only one problem…..you’ll need to have the patience of Job. Pass is running 10-12 months for any new orders for any Pass product.

Sonically, the XP22 has body, touch or warmth, dimensionality and a low noise floor. It’s in my opinion one of the best out there for the money.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Mike,

Thanks for the information discouraging as it is. The Master and Statement are many bumps up in price form the VAC Renaissance and Pass XP-22.

Buy a used cj GAT and you will be so happy

Originally Posted by XV-1

Buy a used cj GAT and you will be so happy

Agreed.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

Or a Kondo KSL M77 Ongaku Pre…. ?


I see that you are not looking for other recommendation than Pass and Vac. I never heard any Vac preamp or power amp. And I still give you other choices not to get you follow this route but for pleasure of discussion….

The current Kondo version is the KSL M7 Heritage.
It all depends on what you are looking for.
The CJ GAT has fabulous dynamics and details. Probably one of the most dynamic preamp I can think of. Only some Naim Audio’s will be similar, but they are designed for a full Naim system.
The Ongaku pre has more « flesh » and is very hard to beat when it comes to naturalness of truth of timbre. It has a purity and delicacy that is just impossible to reach for any SS or hybrid design.
If you look for a huge 3D scene, the Shindo Giscours is unique. But not the most dynamic.
All preamps mentioned ( CJ / Kondo / Shindo ) have very high gains and need amps with adjustable gain.
Pass Labs make great preamps in terms of neutrality. But to me they sound a bit « sterile ».
I am an advocate of the preamp giving the tone of the system so I like preamps with a strong personality. But the Pass will be a great choice if you favors neutrality over all the other parameters of sound.
On the neutral side but not boring at all, imho you have modern Kondo’s and all Nagra preamps from the PLP to the actual ones.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Or a Kondo KSL M77 Ongaku Pre…. ?


I see that you are not looking for other recommendation than Pass and Vac. I never heard any Vac preamp or power amp. And I still give you other choices not to get you follow this route but for pleasure of discussion….

The current Kondo version is the KSL M7 Heritage.
It all depends on what you are looking for.
The CJ GAT has fabulous dynamics and details. Probably one of the most dynamic preamp I can think of. Only some Naim Audio’s will be similar, but they are designed for a full Naim system.
The Ongaku pre has more « flesh » and is very hard to beat when it comes to naturalness of truth of timbre. It has a purity and delicacy that is just impossible to reach for any SS or hybrid design.
If you look for a huge 3D scene, the Shindo Giscours is unique. But not the most dynamic.
All preamps mentioned ( CJ / Kondo / Shindo ) have very high gains and need amps with adjustable gain.
Pass Labs make great preamps in terms of neutrality. But to me they sound a bit « sterile ».
I am an advocate of the preamp giving the tone of the system so I like preamps with a strong personality. But the Pass will be a great choice if you favors neutrality over all the other parameters of sound.
On the neutral side but not boring at all, imho you have modern Kondo’s and all Nagra preamps from the PLP to the actual ones.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

The Kondo doesn't seem to be in the same financial world unless I am thinking of a different Pre?

A used 77 will be near the price of a new GAT.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

Any thoughts on BAT? VK-80 or 90?

I know most people here won't agree, but I think McIntosh is worth a look. I am extremely happy with my new C49. Performance the C49 and C53 are identical, and over the top in my view. The 53 adds a few extra "features". Blue meters, EQ, extra input, the DA2 DAC module versus the DA1 standard for the 49. Modular DAC design is outstanding!

Flexibility and usability the Mc's are in a different world. Two chassis designs and being able to rename, adjust, save settings, etc., per input. Of course, easily turn off unused inputs! The remote is spectacular also.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I know most people here won't agree, but I think McIntosh is worth a look...

i am very curious as to why this is so

do you think it is actual performance versus the other brands often discussed here ...or is it simply a perception of mcIntosh being a life-style, mid-fi brand ...or both?

wonder where mcIntosh would fall on mike's brand perception scale -- tier 4?

Originally Posted by aKnyght

i am very curious as to why this is so

do you think it is actual performance versus the other brands often discussed here ...or is it simply a perception of mcIntosh being a life-style, mid-fi brand ...or both?

wonder where mcIntosh would fall on mike's brand perception scale -- tier 4?

Tier 3. I’ve owned more Mc than most folks here. Love it, for what it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Originally Posted by Mike

Tier 3. I’ve owned more Mc than most folks here. Love it, for what it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

sounds about right...

how would you compare mcIntosh to the VAC renaissance mk-v being considered by the OP? for the purposes of an apples-to-apples comparison, let's say something like the Mc c22/c70 which is also a tubed pre-amp; however, it is ~half the price, so maybe not a true apples-to-apples comp).

Originally Posted by aKnyght

sounds about right...

how would you compare mcIntosh to the VAC renaissance mk-v being considered by the OP? for the purposes of an apples-to-apples comparison, let's say something like the Mc c22/c70 which is also a tubed pre-amp; however, it is ~half the price, so maybe not a true apples-to-apples comp).

I don’t know those Mc pieces, so a little hard to comment. A 2500 is a better reference for me. I always found the 2500 veiled compared to say a VAC Ren V. We took a 2500 on trade for a VAC pre.

If I was shopping in that budget: Pass XP12 or XP22 for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Originally Posted by Mike

I don’t know those Mc pieces, so a little hard to comment. A 2500 is a better reference for me. I always found the 2500 veiled compared to say a VAC Ren V. We took a 2500 on trade for a VAC pre.

If I was shopping in that budget: Pass XP12 or XP22 for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

True, however more of a comparison would be the C49 or C53 because the Pass is SS. McIntosh is either a love or a hate thing. People who love Mc won't even consider other. I grew up in Binghamton so I definitely am in the love McIntosh base .

Feature and usability wise they offer an awful lot versus others in their range. For my old ears I also believe they sound fantastic!