Whole Home Surge Protection/Power Conditioning for Dedicated 20A lines...

chops

chops

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As some of you my know, I plan on running three 20A circuits to my system this fall, using a 60A subpanel and three 20A breakers via 10/2 Romex. From what I have read, this seems to be the best approach anyway.

Also in my research, I have come across a couple of items from Environmental Potentials, specifically the EP-2050-EE power conditioner and EP-2750 ground filter. I was thinking these would be a good add-on for the dedicated subpanel.

For outlets, I'm thinking I'll go with Hubbell IG8300's which have isolated grounds. Not exactly sure what the means as far as the outlets are concerned, but saw several people mention over others, not to mention they accept 10 AWG cable.

Is there anything else I should consider? Would a whole home surge protector from the power company (TECO in my case) be good? Not really too concerned with price as I want it to be done right the first time, and labor will be paid for in a cook-out. It's good to have an electrician as a friend!
 
The Isolated Ground outlets are grounded to remove noise, the “Yokes” (the 2 prongs) are electrically isolated from the ground screw, so the yokes and ground screw can be used for two separate ground paths.

I am also in Florida (FPL is our company), we have the whole home surge protector. I honestly could not tell you if its worth it or not, during a hurricane in 2015 an electrical surge fried our refrigerators circuit board, so the “whole home surge protector” didn’t protect it in that instance. If you’re running a stand alone sub panel, are you pulling your line supply off the existing home sub panel or running a new line from the main (would think you would have a separate meter). I would think a good power conditioner would cover your needs (McIntosh MCP-1500 is what I’m using). The Absolute Sound has a good write up on their top power conditioners, should you feel the need.
 
I have a similar set up to the one you are considering in my home. I installed the Environmental Potentials on both the box feeding my music room and the one feeding the rest of the house. They come very highly recommended and while I don't have an a/b because I installed them when the box went in, I "think" they also lowered the noise floor. You are doing it the right way - due to some COVID level electrical work, I had to have some stuff redone recently and when I got it all straightened out, the noise floor was significantly lower - quite noticeably. My other unsolicited advice is to check the breaker box that gets installed and be sure it has a copper buss bar. The cheapos from Home Depot don't and that breaker box made a significant difference in the noise floor in the room (my COVID electrician didn't install what was spec'd, so I had to replace it). Of course, one can get quite elaborate audio breaker boxes (see KingRex and AudioUltra, likely among others), but the copper buss in a Siemens box made a positive difference for me without spending much more money.
 
I have both the EP 2050 + EP 2750 installed for several years now.
When they were installed I did not notice any change in sound quality.
They are heavy duty industrial products.
As for your newly proposed AC circuit, #10 romex is only rated at 30 amps.
If your sub panel has a "main" breaker of 60 amps this could be a problem. It is my understanding that wire size capacity must be appropriate to the rated breaker size.
 
jadedavid said:
I have both the EP 2050 + EP 2750 installed for several years now.
When they were installed I did not notice any change in sound quality.
They are heavy duty industrial products.
As for your newly proposed AC circuit, #10 romex is only rated at 30 amps.
If your sub panel has a "main" breaker of 60 amps this could be a problem. It is my understanding that wire size capacity must be appropriate to the rated breaker size.
Click to expand...

I think you are confusing things. The wire gauge has to be rated for the breaker it is wired to. If you are wiring a circuit to a 20A breaker, the wire gauge has to be rated for 20A. Using a wire gauge that is suitable for 30A on a 20A breaker is overkill. If you are running wiring to feed a 60A box, the wire would be a much larger gauge to in order to support supplying 60A to the main breaker.
 
Isolated Ground receptacles are sometimes used in metal conduit (ridge or flexible) systems. They would serve no purpose in a Romax® system. There are no leakage, ground, noise or lost neutral currents from other circuits in a Romax® system. By the way, use real SouthWire Romax® not generic NM-B.

Darn few home audio systems need more than one 20 Amp circuit, but if you must:
Run a feeder to a point near the audio equipment and use a 6 breaker box, not a sub-panel.
Only use the Safety Ground (EGC) wire that is internal to the ROMAX®, do not add other wires.
 
jadedavid said:
...................
As for your newly proposed AC circuit, #10 romex is only rated at 30 amps.
If your sub panel has a "main" breaker of 60 amps this could be a problem. It is my understanding that wire size capacity must be appropriate to the rated breaker size.
Click to expand...
As 'mep' noted. It's the upstream or source breaker size that matters, with reference to the cable AWG.
Often a 100 Amp main panel can have two dozen 20 Amp breakers in it.
 
Watched an interesting video yesterday, its on The Absolute Sounds YouTube channel: “ Michael Fremer Updates His House Ground For Sonic Performance”. He does a good job of going through the step by step process of isolating his music room on a separate sub panel. Hope that helps you further in your quest for audio supremacy!
 
mep said:
I think you are confusing things. The wire gauge has to be rated for the breaker it is wired to. If you are wiring a circuit to a 20A breaker, the wire gauge has to be rated for 20A. Using a wire gauge that is suitable for 30A on a 20A breaker is overkill. If you are running wiring to feed a 60A box, the wire would be a much larger gauge to in order to support supplying 60A to the main breaker.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you have misunderstood my post.
We are in agreement.
I was only pointing out that running a #10 wire to a sub panel "That has a 60 amp main breaker" is not code.
As stated, wire size must match breaker rating.
However if the sub panel does not have a "main" breaker then running the #10 and having several branch circuits is acceptable.
 
Late last year I posted about a grounding and electrical upgrade done by Rex and Ed. Of course not everyone has the luxury or the availability of dedicated and passionate audiophile people to assist in improving their home electrical grounding and rooms power needs. But, the benefits can be heard. And the need to look for new boxes and devices from a outlet in a listening room are greatly reduced.

Here is a link:

Getting my electrical house, stereo room in order
 
jadedavid said:
Perhaps you have misunderstood my post.
We are in agreement.
I was only pointing out that running a #10 wire to a sub panel "That has a 60 amp main breaker" is not code.
As stated, wire size must match breaker rating.
However if the sub panel does not have a "main" breaker then running the #10 and having several branch circuits is acceptable.
Click to expand...

Once again:
It's the from panel breaker that matters, not the towards panel breaker.
If the main panel has a 30 Amp breaker for the 10AWG wires, that is correct.
 
Speedskater said:
Once again:
It's the from panel breaker that matters, not the towards panel breaker.
If the main panel has a 30 Amp breaker for the 10AWG wires, that is correct.
Click to expand...

that is correct most of the time, however, it really depends on distance and overall load, typically folks run 8ga for a 30a to be on the safe side.
 
Porsche said:
that is correct most of the time, however, it really depends on distance and overall load, typically folks run 8ga for a 30a to be on the safe side.
Click to expand...
Yep, one step AWG oversize is always a good plan. Sometimes oversize is required for: extra long runs, or high ambient temperatures or high conduit fill.
 
Sorry everyone for not responding sooner. Been a hectic week at work, which is a good thing of course.

Anyway, when I'm talking about 10 AWG Romex, dedicated 20A runs and a 60A subpanel, of course I'm referring to the 20A runs to the listening room being run with the 10 AWG Romex FROM the subpanel. Of course, getting power TO the subpanel which will be right along side the main panel, will use heavier gauge wire.

There have been talks that IF we can manage to get power directly from the meter before it reaches the main panel, that would be the best route, and use something on the order of 2 AWG. And yes, I know that is most likely WAY overkill, but I have a new friend that I can get the 2 AWG from cheap. In fact, it's the same "friend" that I purchased my Pass XP-20 from.

I'm still on the fence about surge protectors and such. Maybe the Environmental Potentials units, or something from the electric company, or maybe something from SquareD, Eaton, Siemens?

Outlets, though necessary, are low on the priority list at the moment. As long as I get solid, clean power to where it's needed, that's my main concern. With that said, I have been notified about some good quality, modified Hubbell units such as Cruze Maestro outlets and Hubbell Cryo outlets from Take Five Audio. Then again, just about every "audiophile" outlet out there is a modified Hubbell outlet, 5200/5300/8300 series.
 
chops said:
Sorry everyone for not responding sooner. Been a hectic week at work, which is a good thing of course.
..............................
There have been talks that IF we can manage to get power directly from the meter before it reaches the main panel, that would be the best route, and use something on the order of 2 AWG.
Click to expand...
Don't let the inspector or your insurance know, that you're breaking the law.

I'm still on the fence about surge protectors and such. Maybe the Environmental Potentials units, or something from the electric company, or maybe something from SquareD, Eaton, Siemens?
Click to expand...
Use the same brand as the panel.

Then again, just about every "audiophile" outlet out there is a modified Hubbell outlet, 5200/5300/8300 series.
Click to expand...
Stock off-the-shelf Hubbell's would be a good plan.
 
Speedskater said:
Don't let the inspector or your insurance know, that you're breaking the law.
Click to expand...

How would that be breaking the law? I said after the meter, not before it.

Besides, my friend (licensed electrician for 35+ years) wouldn't do anything illegal anyway, nor would I want him to.
 
Speedskater said:
Note that 'cryo' treating the receptacles, will invalidate their 'UL' listing and could damage their plastic parts.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I couldn't care less about them being "cryo", and frankly think it's a bunch of hoopla anyway and does nothing for sound or "electrical flow".
 
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