Thread: Regenerators vs. Conditioners

Originally Posted by kobakibuki

Hi everybody!Year ago I bought my first torroidal isolation transformer.Long story short....today I'm use 9 pcs.Extremist?Yes.I modified all componenets.
1-1 pcs for monoblocks,5pcs-preamp,2pcs-dac.Each transformer-each iso transformer design much better than others.This is my experience.
I sold all expensive power cords,no needed.
I listen now 99% red book,almost same as HiRes.

have a nice day!!!

Good for you, maybe you could post some pics of the system.

My new P.I. Audio UberBuss.

Checked it with my Entech Wideband AC Noise Analyzer.

Calibraded the meter for a noise level reading of 100 on an AC outlet without the UberBuss plugged in.

Plugged the UberBuss into the outlet and the noise level dropped to 50, plugged meter into the NCF outlet on the UberBuss and it dropped to .3.

Guess it works.

BTW, the faceplate is Jatoba wood, which matches my audio rack.

Originally Posted by mauidan

My new P.I. Audio UberBuss.

Checked it with my Entech Wideband AC Noise Analyzer.

Calibraded the meter for a noise level reading of 100 on an AC outlet without the UberBuss plugged in.

Plugged the UberBuss into the outlet and the noise level dropped to 50, plugged meter into the NCF outlet on the UberBuss and it dropped to .3.

Guess it works.

BTW, the faceplate is Jatoba wood, which matches my audio rack.

Wow, that is pretty sweet. Nice to have a product that not only works so well but is also so beautiful.

Originally Posted by kobakibuki

Hi everybody!Year ago I bought my first torroidal isolation transformer.Long story short....today I'm use 9 pcs.Extremist?Yes.I modified all componenets.
1-1 pcs for monoblocks,5pcs-preamp,2pcs-dac.Each transformer-each iso transformer design much better than others.This is my experience.
I sold all expensive power cords,no needed.
I listen now 99% red book,almost same as HiRes.

have a nice day!!!

Hello Koba, Welcome.

May I clarify you post. Are you saying you are using a separate isolation transformer for each component? Thanks.

Yes,exactly each transformer-small isolation transformer design.My preamp have 5transformers now.Dacs only 3.Dac also isolated one big isolator,and one small between digital-analog trafo.Sound the best now.All trafos put in one own chassis,but the longer distance between trafo-iso.trafo(around 1meter)kill the air,detail,mid,music get just dark.So I minimize back the distance(15cm) and all good now,fantastic!!Also improve the crosstalk a lot.
My system before neutral,but less detail,air,mid-magic.....

I have 2 Elgar 3006B Reconditioned by Atma-Sphere for sale, I purchased both for a very large setup I was planning to complete. Obviously as most of you can tell most of my Audio Gear is now for sale on the buyers section. Getting back to this topic. Ralph explained 99% of the Power Conditioners/Regenerators on the high end market are not worth using. The one he highly recommended to me was the Elgar but the problem with Elgar is they are old and hard to obtain as these are discontinued. I searched for over 2 years for a decent one to buy. many sold on Ebay and other sites were in broken state or very bad condition which could not be revived. This is the world fastest conditioner and still today it stands up against anything. It has enough current to run a Home theatre and all your audio 2 channel setups.

This is What Ralp said on a email to a client who was interested in them. These are 240V Input. 117v output perfect for installing near the breaker box in the USA Homes. For those who want the absolute best in Power conditioner these are the ones to get. They are ultra rare but are real gems. I have had them tested with and without amps and I can tell you from personal experience this made night and day difference with no loss of dynamics.

Iv been searching for the holy grail in power conditioning for years now, had a bunch of high end stuff and nothing would work so well. Normally the midrange or high frequency would sound congested. One of the biggest problems with high end conditioner is the Instant Current required by Amplifiers can not be met by small conditioners. After hearing the difference over 3 years ago in the USA. I started to search for them tool me almost 2 years to find a decent unit to purchase. Mines was purchased from a laboratory which went out of business. The units were in working condition and pretty good shape for a 20-30 year old conditioner I was lucky to acquire the voltage rating of 240input and 117output. It was sent over to Ralph who spent over a year and half on them. He reconditioned the unit and changed all the caps out. Its stable up to 3000 watts tested. No distortion or spike. If anyone is considering a power conditioner it is this one to have. If my situation had not change it would never be offered for sale.

Ralph Quote: Below:


They run off of 240V so you have to hook it up to your breaker box. You would then feed your audio room with the output of the Elgar. It has enough current to easily supply your entire room, even if you had a set of MA-2s.

It regulates AC voltage (no need for a variac) and uses a massive transformer to isolate the AC output. There is then a low distortion oscillator that is locked to the AC line frequency- the unit compares this oscillator to that of the output of the transformer and applies a correction signal to a feedback winding on the transformer. The result is a low distortion sine wave all the way up to full power, free of spikes. It puts **all** high end audio power conditioners to shame.

This is what it looks like:




3000 Watts of power. Installed at Breakbox and then fed into your room via dedicated lines:

http://www.programmablepower.com/pro...%20Rev%20A.pdf

Here is a Short Description:


Elgar AC LINE CONDITIONER Elgar?s Ultra Precision Line Conditioners (UPLC) provide the cleanest, most precise AC power available, eliminating highspeed AC line and load transients as well as input distortion. These versatile instruments have a response time of less than 20 microseconds (5000 times quicker than the fastest conventional regulating line conditioners). Output harmonic distortion is less than 0.2% for up to 10% input distortion.




I can tell you these are the hardest units to find on the market. Many units I came across willing to buy over the 2 years were all in crappy condition. Even more worse, most are 117 input and 117 output. It is better to run these as 240 Input and 117 output. Actually in the USA you have 240 Input lines, once it passes your breaker box its split into your normal 115-117v for home use.

Grounding in the room is just as important. I put large amounts of investment into Entreq for the room and these Elgars to run the dedicated lines. These were reconditioned using original parts and brand new output caps. Im putting them up for sale very soon. Just waiting for new pictures.

Originally Posted by Dragon_vibe

I have 2 Elgar 3006B Reconditioned by Atma-Sphere for sale, I purchased both for a very large setup I was planning to complete. Obviously as most of you can tell most of my Audio Gear is now for sale on the buyers section. Getting back to this topic. Ralph explained 99% of the Power Conditioners/Regenerators on the high end market are not worth using. The one he highly recommended to me was the Elgar but the problem with Elgar is they are old and hard to obtain as these are discontinued. I searched for over 2 years for a decent one to buy. many sold on Ebay and other sites were in broken state or very bad condition which could not be revived. This is the world fastest conditioner and still today it stands up against anything. It has enough current to run a Home theatre and all your audio 2 channel setups.

This is What Ralp said on a email to a client who was interested in them. These are 240V Input. 117v output perfect for installing near the breaker box in the USA Homes. For those who want the absolute best in Power conditioner these are the ones to get. They are ultra rare but are real gems. I have had them tested with and without amps and I can tell you from personal experience this made night and day difference with no loss of dynamics.

Iv been searching for the holy grail in power conditioning for years now, had a bunch of high end stuff and nothing would work so well. Normally the midrange or high frequency would sound congested. One of the biggest problems with high end conditioner is the Instant Current requires by Amplifiers.

Ralph Quote: Below:


They run off of 240V so you have to hook it up to your breaker box. You would then feed your audio room with the output of the Elgar. It has enough current to easily supply your entire room, even if you had a set of MA-2s.

It regulates AC voltage (no need for a variac) and uses a massive transformer to isolate the AC output. There is then a low distortion oscillator that is locked to the AC line frequency- the unit compares this oscillator to that of the output of the transformer and applies a correction signal to a feedback winding on the transformer. The result is a low distortion sine wave all the way up to full power, free of spikes. It puts **all** high end audio power conditioners to shame.

Ralph Karsten is one smart guy and I agree with his comment I put in bold above. These units are very similar to what Torus does with NBT in their wall mount units to isolate, regulate voltage and clean harmonics and emi/rfi while still providing massive quantities of instant current.

before the Elgars I asked about the Torus, as I was having problems finding decent Elgar units, He still suggested to me to look for the Elgar's as they are superior to the Torus Units. However The torus stuff are good and much better than many out there. It was a total headache looking for them. He said its well worth the cost and headache as there is nothing that can match these units.

Originally Posted by Dragon_vibe

before the Elgars I asked about the Torus, as I was having problems finding decent Elgar units, He still suggested to me to look for the Elgar's as they are superior to the Torus Units. However The torus stuff are good and much better than many out there. It was a total headache looking for them. He said its well worth the cost and headache as there is nothing that can match these units.

Ok, well in that case, I take everything back I said about Ralph being a smart guy.......seriously though, I wonder to what extent he was evaluating the NBT technology and a wall mount versus the stand alone bench top units before NBT. Without NBT and the massive current reserves of a wall mount I would agree with his statements. With them, I think he is wrong.

Well I never asked specifically which was is he comparing too, what he said to me was the speed and distortion rate of the Elgar can not be matched and are superior saying that, I wander if you have a detail spec of the NBT Wall mount series I would love to take a look and compare both just for fun. Iv not looked into the Wall mount series before as its not available for anyone else world wide except north America. The Elgar is a bench top unit not wall mounted. So there is also a difference there.

The basic spec for Elgar:



Im not gona bother reading the 48 pages of the detailed spec, just interested on how this compares to Torus in general.

Originally Posted by Dragon_vibe

Well I never asked specifically which was is he comparing too, what he said to me was the speed and distortion rate of the Elgar can not be matched and are superior saying that, I wander if you have a detail spec of the NBT Wall mount series I would love to take a look and compare both just for fun. Iv not looked into the Wall mount series before as its not available for anyone else world wide except north America. The Elgar is a bench top unit not wall mounted. So there is also a difference there.

The basic spec for Elgar:



Im not gona bother reading the 48 pages of the detailed spec, just interested on how this compares to Torus in general.

As the measurements below indicate the cleanup of common and differential mode line noise is within the margin of error of the measuring device (i.e., immeasurable). I would suspect both units do a good job in this regard. Where I would expect the Torus to be superior is the rise time or instantaneous power capability.

NBT transformer design carefully balances the inherent inductance, capacitance, and resistance characteristics of the toroidal transformer, enabling the transformer to act as a very effective low-pass filter. No other external components are required. This technology eliminates series inductors and filter capacitors in the primary circuit. It also eliminates the need for a low distortion oscillator that requires the unit to compare this oscillator to that of the output of the transformer and applies a correction signal to a feedback winding on the transformer.

While this is done very fast relative to some designs, the only impediment to instant current from the Torus is output impedance which is extremely low given it uses no components beyond the transformer itself. With 9 kva compared to 3 kva it also has massive reserves. I do not see a response time quoted for the Torus as I have been told the available current is simply "instant" by the Torus guys up to the rated amps. I have asked them for the units actual output impedance in lieu thereof just cuz now I am curious.

I will also look in to both and see how they compare. However your comparing a 3KV vs a 9KV its like comparing a large 4000cc engines to smaller 1000cc engines. Elgar is rack mounted or desk mounted. Here is the electrical power spec. I supposed some of the information is either of the site of from the sales rep? .

this is a bit like DAC companies each one believes there form of technology is always superior than everyone else.

Maybe you can ask them for a more detailed spec, on distortion measured up to full power, response time & current reserved

I cant seen to find it on Torus website or the instruction paper they provide on the AVR series. The specification are not as detailed....