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  1. #1
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    PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Hi team,

    Living in central Tokyo I have reasonably clean power but my current P10 was still a major improvement when I added to my system 6 or 7 years ago. I am considering finding him a successor at some point.

    I was wondering whether someone had compared the PS Audio P20 to the Shunyata Research Denali 6000/S V2?

    I understand of course that they are 2 very different beasts, but their objective is the same, which is to bring the best possible AC current into our amps, etc...


    I am aware that Shunyata is about to come up with their Everst 8000/T which should be interesting too.

    Thank you.

    Regards,
    Bernard

  2. #2
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Caveat. I haven't owned a PS Audio P20 but I have owned PPP, P3, P5 and P10. Every one broke down multiple times. Read the PS Owner forums. Pages and pages of reports from multiple PS owners with stuff that doesn't work properly, or not at all. And promised features that never eventuate. Even brand new stuff not working out of the box. Probably hundreds of reports. If you're in the US issues can be promptly dealt with. If you're an international customer your support mileage can vary. The company has a mostly popular following, and they are engaging with their customers probably more than any other company. Then go and read the Shunyata owner forums here. I don't' recall a single instance of anything Shunyata breaking down. My order would go to Shunyata without hesitation. I've owned too much junk PS Audio stuff over the years to consider buying another one of their power plant regenerators.
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  3. #3
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Thanks.

    My personal experience with my P10 so far has been ok but I may have been lucky. I have indeed read quite many reports from unhappy customers.

    The Shunyata route is clearly very appealing.

    Cheers,
    Bernard

  4. #4
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I have a Shunyata Denali on order. It will replace a PS Audio power plant which doesn't work properly. I did order a P20 over a year ago but cancelled the order before delivery when reports of P20's with various issues started appearing on the PS forums. It was looking like more of the same, just not worth persisting with such problematic stuff.
    Speakers: Magico M3,ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso | Amplification: Halcro |
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    and Rack 1.1 amp stands (pair) | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere

    On order: Esoteric Grandioso D1X.
    On wish list: Shunyata Research Everest.
    On sale: Everything!

  5. #5

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I once had a P5, then P10 for few months and eventually replaced it with 6000T. The improvement is not subtle. To be fair, my P5 and P10 never bothered me as they too work in cleaning power, just not the way I prefer or as much as Denali (V1). Reportedly V2 is better than V1.

  6. #6

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    This hobby is subjective for sure and system synergy is more ideal than one specific component. However, many well agree that Shunyata is better engineered power product. PS audio wants to be the direct reseller of your whole audio chain. Single vendor approach from outlet to speakers.

    Shunyata's main business and expertise is power and signal transmission. Look at the patents and the years of refinement in removing distortion from their products.

    Shunyata is State of the Art on this area and their continued refinement of their product portfolio is impressive.

    The resale value of Shunyata power products is evidence to this over the other brand.

  7. #7
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    PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Years back I had a P10, no issues, other than it could not handle the load on one occasion but I was rocking at 75%, rightfully so.

    Each have their place, different price points for different applications.

    Preferably in my application Shunyata out performed the regenerator allowing more energized current to support driving the system.

    Plus Shunyata offers other items in support of the electrical foundation - lots of info on this here, magazines and on their site.

    For those that can, trying is best as not only is the home subjective, so to is the listener.



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  8. #8
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by bernardl View Post
    Hi team,

    Living in central Tokyo I have reasonably clean power but my current P10 was still a major improvement when I added to my system 6 or 7 years ago. I am considering finding him a successor at some point.

    I was wondering whether someone had compared the PS Audio P20 to the Shunyata Research Denali 6000/S V2?

    I understand of course that they are 2 very different beasts, but their objective is the same, which is to bring the best possible AC current into our amps, etc...


    I am aware that Shunyata is about to come up with their Everst 8000/T which should be interesting too.

    Thank you.

    Regards,
    Bernard
    I haven't heard the P20, but I have a Denali V2 and it is quite amazing. Unlike other power distributors, there is no impact on dynamic transient current delivery (DTCD) by the considerable noise reduction that Denali provides. As far as I know, all other power distributors/conditioners use coils, inductors or chokes to provide noise reduction. This does work, but it has a notable negative impact on dynamic transient current delivery. The result is often a lack of immediacy and speed and scaling of dynamics and a "dark" sound. Some PDs get around this by having a pair of "high current" sockets that do not provide NR for powering amps and the like so they don't sound compressed or dark.

    With Shunyata's power distributors, you get both. This is exceptionally hard to do from an engineering standpoint, and in this respect, IMHO, Denali V2 represents breaking through a set long-standing functional conflicts.

    And...no other power distributor has a QR/BB device...what this device does for music reproduction is unparalleled, providing a 3D-holographic-like image and soundstage (where you are IN the recording studio or orchestra, not just "watching it" in a "proscenium setting"), as well as huge dynamic reserves where each instrument can be heard individually and fully articulated and delineated against the backdrop of the overall orchestra, band, group, or "voices".

  9. #9
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post
    I once had a P5, then P10 for few months and eventually replaced it with 6000T. The improvement is not subtle. To be fair, my P5 and P10 never bothered me as they too work in cleaning power, just not the way I prefer or as much as Denali (V1). Reportedly V2 is better than V1.
    Denali v2 represents a signficant upgrade over Denali V1. Not the least of which is full CCI on each socket, and a considerably larger QR/BB device.

  10. #10

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    Denali v2 represents a signficant upgrade over Denali V1. Not the least of which is full CCI on each socket, and a considerably larger QR/BB device.
    PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2? Yes, that’s what I understand. It’ll be either V2 or Everest some time down the road. My only caveat is I’d want 6000T V2 but that does not seem to be happening.

  11. #11
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I’m an active participant on the PS Audio forums and I currently own 7 pieces of PS Audio gear. With all of this gear over the years I have only had an amp that required a trip to mother. It was handled painlessly and expeditiously. I think you hear about problems on an open forum where people aren’t censored and air some gripes. The squeaky wheel gets attention so to speak. As for the P20 - Denali comparison, they do different things. It would depend on your quality of electricity and the demands of your system. Both are good products with different approaches to cleaning and stabilizing your power. Now as for PS Audio gear on 220/240 V I would be cautious. They seem to have issues with products that run on those voltages. Japan is 100V so good enough hopefully.
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  12. #12
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Thank you all for your great feedbacks.

    Another thing that makes me lean towards Shunyata is the more reasonable weight and bulk as well as reduced power consumption overhead.

    I will probably wait for Everest official announcement anyways to see where it fits budgetwise.

    Thanks again.

    Regards,
    Bernard

  13. #13
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I own both a PS Audio P10 and a P20 that I bought directly from PS Audio. I have had zero problems with either unit. I've found PS Audio's customer support to always be outstanding.

  14. #14
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by stax View Post
    I own both a PS Audio P10 and a P20 that I bought directly from PS Audio. I have had zero problems with either unit. I've found PS Audio's customer support to always be outstanding.
    Very glad to hear it and that you've been happy with your experience.

    Putting on my Six Sigma Black Belt hat on here for a moment, though...

    One cannot draw any statistically valid interences regading product line quality from a sample N of 1.

    A business needs to be doing two key things to assess overall product quality: 1) capability analysis during Operations and 2) statistical process control charting on manufactured items to make any statistically valid inferences about product quality from day to day, lot to lot, etc.

  15. #15
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Another duplicate post...a failure mode & effects analysis (aka FMEA) may help here.

  16. #16
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I'm not sure I understand. It's my direct experience with the products and the service of the company..nothing more and nothing less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    Very glad to hear it and that you've been happy with your experience.

    Putting on my Six Sigma Black Belt hat on here for a moment, though...

    One cannot draw any statistically valid interences regading product line quality from a sample N of 1.

    A business needs to be doing two key things to assess overall product quality: 1) capability analysis during Operations and 2) statistical process control charting on manufactured items to make any statistically valid inferences about product quality from day to day, lot to lot, etc.

  17. #17
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by stax View Post
    I'm not sure I understand. It's my direct experience with the products and the service of the company..nothing more and nothing less.
    What I am saying is that one cannot make statements about the overall quality of a company's products from a sample N of 1. One has to have a statistically informative sample N to make any meaningful and statistically valid inferences about product quality.

  18. #18
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by stax View Post
    I'm not sure I understand. It's my direct experience with the products and the service of the company..nothing more and nothing less.

    If's great that you have had a positive experience and are happy with your products.

    A single customer's experience, though, either positive or negative, is not a large enough sample size to make any statistically valid inferences about a company's overall product quality.

  19. #19
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    We know that at least 2 PS audio power plant users have not had issues. :-)

    But yes, this thread won’t allow us to get a view of how widespread their problems are. It seems clear that they have had some quality issues which can be very annoying with extremely heavy units such as the P20.

    I would still be interested in feedbacks regarding the respective benefits in terms of power cleaning from those having compared the P20 and Denali 6000/S V2.

    Regards,
    Bernard

  20. #20
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Statistically speaking you are of course correct. We need to stop mentioning our own one-off experiences with our equipment since we are not able to make statistically valid inferences each time we do. I'm also happy with my Shunyata Sigma NR and Alpha NR power cables...great products though I have no experience with their power conditioners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    If's great that you have had a positive experience and are happy with your products.

    A single customer's experience, though, either positive or negative, is not a large enough sample size to make any statistically valid inferences about a company's overall product quality.

  21. #21
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by bernardl View Post
    We know that at least 2 PS audio power plant users have not had issues. :-)

    But yes, this thread won’t allow us to get a view of how widespread their problems are. It seems clear that they have had some quality issues which can be very annoying with extremely heavy units such as the P20.

    I would still be interested in feedbacks regarding the respective benefits in terms of power cleaning from those having compared the P20 and Denali 6000/S V2.

    Regards,
    Bernard
    All I can say is that I know someone (who some folks here also know as well) on another forum who had many PS Audio P20s in all of his system(s), and upon getting his first Denali V2, pulled out virtually all his P20s, sold them, and replaced all of them with Denali V2s.

  22. #22

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    All I can say is that I know someone (who some folks here also know as well) on another forum who had many PS Audio P20s in all of his system(s), and upon getting his first Denali V2, pulled out virtually all his P20s, sold them, and replaced all of them with Denali V2s.

    I believe there is a member here with MSB Select 2 and the new MSB Monos +Magico speakers but, has the P20. Another member with EMM Pre +DV2 but, I think he is trying out Shunyata in his system to compare to the PS.

    At least form what I recall reading.

    IMHO only two main power engineers in High End Audio. Caelin Gabriel (Shunyata) and Garth Powell of AudioQuest (Formerly Furman)

    I'm sure there are other fine products out there but, these two are at the top of their game.

    Who is the engineer behind the Power Plants? We hear a lot from them promoting Ted Smith's DAC and Bascom King's amps as example.

    But, nothing on their power products... Hmmmm

  23. #23
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Thank you very much for your feedbacks.

    Regards,
    Bernard
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  24. #24
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    The BHK series of products have had their share of in-service issues as well, corrosion, wrong parts fitted at factory, buzz/hum/clicking noises, it's all laid bare to read about it in the PS forums. We are not talking about a few instances here and there, there are hundreds of reports of problematic gear across the full spectrum of the PS product range.
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  25. #25
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    PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    The BHK series of products have had their share of in-service issues as well, corrosion, wrong parts fitted at factory, buzz/hum/clicking noises, it's all laid bare to read about it in the PS forums. We are not talking about a few instances here and there, there are hundreds of reports of problematic gear across the full spectrum of the PS product range.
    This. And passing DC due to a “design flaw” and destroying a pair of speakers at a dealers (me).

    I refused to sell another pair after that.
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  26. #26
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    This. And passing DC due to a “design flaw” and destroying a pair of speakers at a dealers (me).

    I refused to sell another pair after that.
    Mike,

    That was awful when that happened to those beautiful speakers of yours. I would have been out exactly then too.

    Ken
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  27. #27
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Duplicate post.
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
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  28. #28
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    With no shows, their new model will struggle. Instead of getting rid of the few bad dealers, those guys working from home mostly, they went in an entirely different direction. Very risky IMO.

    Out of sight, out of mind.


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  29. #29
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Mike, lucky the BHK didn't self dissolve on the shop floor....

    Screen Shot 2020-05-22 at 04.43.07.png
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  30. #30
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    All I can say is that I know someone (who some folks here also know as well) on another forum who had many PS Audio P20s in all of his system(s), and upon getting his first Denali V2, pulled out virtually all his P20s, sold them, and replaced all of them with Denali V2s.
    OK, but as we all know, one cannot draw any statistically valid inferences regarding product line quality from a sample N of 1.

  31. #31
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    ...one cannot draw any statistically valid inferences regarding product line quality from a sample N of 1.
    There are hundreds of complaints on the PS forums from customers who have QC problems across the whole range of the product line for many years.

    And I have direct experience of this having owned (maybe) 20 PS Audio products that either didn't work as intended, broke down, didn't work at all out of the box, were wired backwards, or had quality issues like chassis screws missing, not assembled square or not done up properly. They've even sent me spare parts that didn't work to fix stuff that didn't work! And to be clear, everything was brand new A-stock items shipped directly from the factory.
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    On wish list: Shunyata Research Everest.
    On sale: Everything!

  32. #32
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    There are hundreds of complaints on the PS forums from customers who have QC problems across the whole range of the product line for many years.

    And I have direct experience of this having owned (maybe) 20 PS Audio products that either didn't work as intended, broke down, didn't work at all out of the box, were wired backwards, or had quality issues like chassis screws missing, not assembled square or not done up properly. They've even sent me spare parts that didn't work to fix stuff that didn't work! And to be clear, everything was brand new A-stock items shipped directly from the factory.
    Yep....this is why I posted what you've quoted. An N of 1 "happy" customer is not a valid or representative data set of overall product quality.

    Hopefully, PS Audio is doing the appropriate DPMO calcuations or calculating their process sigma. Assuming they know what that is, of course.

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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    From what I understand they are happy with a failure rate of <1%. Bearing in mind hundreds of complaints against thousands of products shipped has them achieve that target. In my experience with the brand over 20 years, until I recently stopped buying any more of their junk, the quality issues have been evident all that time to about the same degree. However, monitoring their forum now in a passive capacity, I've got a hunch the Stellar product line isn't as problem prone as everything that came before it.
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  34. #34
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    From what I understand they are happy with a failure rate of <1%. Bearing in mind hundreds of complaints against thousands of products shipped has them achieve that target. In my experience with the brand over 20 years, until I recently stopped buying any more of their junk, the quality issues have been evident all that time to about the same degree. However, monitoring their forum now in a passive capacity, I've got a hunch the Stellar product line isn't as problem prone as everything that came before it.
    A failure rate of ≤ 1% is a great way to lose money and erode margin from COPQ. Just to put things in perspective, the failure rate for a six sigma process is 3.4 defects per milliion opportunities, factoring in a 1.5 sigma shift over time. Minimally, their Cp/Cpk should be ≥ 1.33 if they don't want to bleed themselves white with quality failures.

  35. #35
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Wild guess here, but they've probably crunched the numbers and found it to be more economic to wear the cost of warranty fixes than to fix the root causes of why so much stuff gets out the factory door that doesn't work properly (whether that be design, manufacture, testing, final inspections, etc).
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  36. #36
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    There are hundreds of happy customers posting their delight with the products. In fact, if one visits the forum the bulk of the posts are by people enjoying the products, posting about music, etc.

    We also need to keep in mind no forum is an accurate reflection of overall product satisfaction. Self-selection is only one problem. Problems appear much bigger than they are as a result. Those with problems tend to post to complain, where as the bulk of happy consumers simply enjoy their product and never bother to post. Additionally, few audio companies have the balls to provide a forum where unhappy customers can sign in and have at it.

    And then there are those for whom bashing PS Audio is a hobby. One sees the same few repeating the same complaint, posting over and over and over. Dead horses everywhere. OR expressed differently, N of 1 stated a thousand times remains N of 1. One would think the owner of PS Audio stole their lunch money while they were both in middle school.

    On topic: The Denali 6000/S v2 Power Conditioner is an excellent product which appears to have solved the problem of dynamic compression most power conditioners exhibit. It is an impressive piece of kit at a relatively rational price.

  37. #37
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    It would appear that this genuine question ended up being a bit touchy.

    This was not the intent.

    I would propose to focus the discussion on the effectiveness of power cleaning instead of focusing on quality issues.

    Thank you.

    Regards,
    Bernard
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  38. #38
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    This. And passing DC due to a “design flaw” and destroying a pair of speakers at a dealers (me).

    I refused to sell another pair after that.
    believe Krell and BAT both were known to react to DC leakage due to no caps in the signal path - just be sure what preamp you are using.
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12

  39. #39
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    believe Krell and BAT both were known to react to DC leakage due to no caps in the signal path - just be sure what preamp you are using.
    PS Audio’s BHK at the time. So, it was definitely PS Audio related. KABOOM!


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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I'd probably go Torus or Furman on the cheap or another isolation transformer like Audioquest instead of either.

    I find Shunyata strips harmonics out of the sound in the quest to "reduce noise." Most people I know have sold off their Tritons, Typhons, and Hydras over the years because of it. That said, I haven't heard the new Denali and for all I know it could be the real deal. The one I always wanted to own was the first wooden Hydra. I purchased a Sound Application strip which turned out to be a big joke instead.
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12

  41. #41
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Yikes!
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12

  42. #42
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    I'd probably go Torus or Furman on the cheap or another isolation transformer like Audioquest instead of either.

    I find Shunyata strips harmonics out of the sound in the quest to "reduce noise." Most people I know have sold off their Tritons, Typhons, and Hydras over the years because of it. That said, I haven't heard the new Denali and for all I know it could be the real deal. The one I always wanted to own was the first wooden Hydra. I purchased a Sound Application strip which turned out to be a big joke instead.
    I’ve actually found the opposite and during the lockdown switch to the 6000s V/2 at home. I find it provided greater harmonic richness and dimensionality to the music.

    YMMV
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I’ve actually found the opposite and during the lockdown switch to the 6000s V/2 at home. I find it provided greater harmonic richness and dimensionality to the music.
    Same here. I have three dedicated 20 amp circuits, one for each amp, and one for the source gear. Initially, the amps were plugged directly into the wall via a Shunyata power cord, and they sounded great. I later added a Denali 2000 for each amp, and was amazed at the improvement. Also, using the Denali I went from one power cord for each amp to using two power cords plus the Denali for each amp. Even so, there was an audible, obvious improvement.
    Bud

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  44. #44
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    I'd probably go Torus or Furman on the cheap or another isolation transformer like Audioquest instead of either.

    I find Shunyata strips harmonics out of the sound in the quest to "reduce noise." Most people I know have sold off their Tritons, Typhons, and Hydras over the years because of it. That said, I haven't heard the new Denali and for all I know it could be the real deal. The one I always wanted to own was the first wooden Hydra. I purchased a Sound Application strip which turned out to be a big joke instead.
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I’ve actually found the opposite and during the lockdown switch to the 6000s V/2 at home. I find it provided greater harmonic richness and dimensionality to the music.

    YMMV
    I'm in complete alignment with MIke on this one. Everything I've tried that uses coils, inductors, or chokes for noise reduction (which includes devices like the Furman, Richard Gray, and Audioquest-type power conditioners), the music sounds compressed, "heavy", dark and lacks immediacy and dynamic slam.

    I've developed my own inner phrase that "Chokes choke the life out of music". Ugh.

    I haven't tried the newest PS Audio P-series, but some years ago I tried the Power Plant Premier for over a month in my home and system. I found that it had virtually no impact or influence on the sound whatsoever, and it was very large, very heavy device that was in the way in my small listening space.

    By contrast, my entry-level Hydra 4 sounded notably better than the PPP.

    My Hydra-8 was cosiderably better-sounding than my Hydra 4, and my Triton another significant step above the Hydra-8 and...I could plug my amp into it and not have it impact dynamics.

    As for the Denali 6000/S V2...well, that is several quantum jumps up compared to ealier generation PDs. The CCI, NIC NR, and GP-NR technologies significantly reduce noise without impacting dynamic transient current delivery. And the QR/BB device just transports Denali to another galaxy compared to other PDs.

    In my experience, one has to hear a PD with a QR/BB device to "get it"....trying to describe it "verbally" doesn't do it. It fundamentally changes the presentation in a way where traditional audiophile lexicon no longer applies. The language has to move away from the language used in Audiophile-La La land to a language that is evocative of experiencing the musical event itself, or describing the characteristics and attributes of fine musical instruments. Think how to describe how a Guanerius has a warmer, fuller, rounder, more sonorous tone than a Stradivarius, or a Bosendorfer has a different "body" and "power" than a Steinway Grand...and you'll kind get close.

    When I listen to Pepe Romero play his acoustic classical guitar while playing Rodrigo's Concerto de Aranjuez, I can the hear the thickness of the spruce top of his guitar against the background of the full orchestra of The Academy of St Martin in the Fields.

    That's what the QR/BB device does....

  45. #45
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Same here. I have three dedicated 20 amp circuits, one for each amp, and one for the source gear. Initially, the amps were plugged directly into the wall via a Shunyata power cord, and they sounded great. I later added a Denali 2000 for each amp, and was amazed at the improvement. Also, using the Denali I went from one power cord for each amp to using two power cords plus the Denali for each amp. Even so, there was an audible, obvious improvement.
    Bud,
    You may want to share what adding the Typhon QR did for your system...

  46. #46

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    and



    I'm in complete alignment with MIke on this one. Everything I've tried that uses coils, inductors, or chokes for noise reduction (which includes devices like the Furman, Richard Gray, and Audioquest-type power conditioners), the music sounds compressed, "heavy", dark and lacks immediacy and dynamic slam.

    I've developed my own inner phrase that "Chokes choke the life out of music". Ugh.

    I haven't tried the newest PS Audio P-series, but some years ago I tried the Power Plant Premier for over a month in my home and system. I found that it had virtually no impact or influence on the sound whatsoever, and it was very large, very heavy device that was in the way in my small listening space.

    By contrast, my entry-level Hydra 4 sounded notably better than the PPP.

    My Hydra-8 was cosiderably better-sounding than my Hydra 4, and my Triton another significant step above the Hydra-8 and...I could plug my amp into it and not have it impact dynamics.

    As for the Denali 6000/S V2...well, that is several quantum jumps up compared to ealier generation PDs. The CCI, NIC NR, and GP-NR technologies significantly reduce noise without impacting dynamic transient current delivery. And the QR/BB device just transports Denali to another galaxy compared to other PDs.

    In my experience, one has to hear a PD with a QR/BB device to "get it"....trying to describe it "verbally" doesn't do it. It fundamentally changes the presentation in a way where traditional audiophile lexicon no longer applies. The language has to move away from the language used in Audiophile-La La land to a language that is evocative of experiencing the musical event itself, or describing the characteristics and attributes of fine musical instruments. Think how to describe how a Guanerius has a warmer, fuller, rounder, more sonorous tone than a Stradivarius, or a Bosendorfer has a different "body" and "power" than a Steinway Grand...and you'll kind get close.

    When I listen to Pepe Romero play his acoustic classical guitar while playing Rodrigo's Concerto de Aranjuez, I can the hear the thickness of the spruce top of his guitar against the background of the full orchestra of The Academy of St Martin in the Fields.

    That's what the QR/BB device does....

    Just remember one man's definition of distortion is another mans "harmonic richness". One man's "analytical " is another man's accurate and transparent.

    You get the idea :-)

    Thankfully this isn't a subjective hobby lol

  47. #47
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    What I am saying is that one cannot make statements about the overall quality of a company's products from a sample N of 1. One has to have a statistically informative sample N to make any meaningful and statistically valid inferences about product quality.
    And one cannot make statements about quality from reading Forums.
    Jim

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  48. #48
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    And one cannot make statements about quality from reading Forums.
    Correct. You need capability analysis



    and SPC...


  49. #49

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    All I can say is that I know someone (who some folks here also know as well) on another forum who had many PS Audio P20s in all of his system(s), and upon getting his first Denali V2, pulled out virtually all his P20s, sold them, and replaced all of them with Denali V2s.
    I'm pretty sure I know of the person you are referring to and that person thought the P20 was the cats meow up until the point they were not longer a dealer because PS Audio went direct. So the data point you speak of I take with a gain of salt.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by TheGemState; May 23, 2020 at 10:26 AM. Reason: Typo

  50. #50

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I have owned a P5, P10, P12, and P20, and now a pair of Shunyata Denali 6000S v2.

    I am certainly no engineering expert, but all of the above did and are doing what they are supposed to do.

    I have very noisy electricity and borderline high voltage. This is why I started using these products. My goal was not performance improvement per say, but rather simply to eliminate the electrical noise. And all of the products did this. I did notice that the P12 and P20 made my system sound more enjoyable to listen to me, whereas the P5 and P10 just eliminated noise. None of them had a breakdown for me.

    The P20 was a fantastic improvement for me, but I never had more than a 40% load on it.

    In ultimately switched to Shunyata because I did have breakdowns with other PS Audio products, and I was concerned the same might happen with the P12 and P20. The size and weight of the Ps Audio products was also a factor in the switch.

    You may have noticed that I haven’t really mentioned The Denali yet. I don’t think I can add any more superlatives to what has already been said. It works perfectly, takes up less space, and costs less. I would think this is a no brainer for most.

    I do believe the PS Audio P20 is a useful product, but the Denali is a better product for me.


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PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

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