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  1. #51

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGemState View Post
    I pretty sure I know of the person you are referring to and that person thought the P20 was the cats meow up until the point they were not longer a dealer because PS Audio went direct. So the data point you speak of I take with a gain of salt.

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  2. #52
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadHead View Post
    I have owned a P5, P10, P12, and P20...

    I am certainly no engineering expert, but all of the above did and are doing what they are supposed to do.
    With respect, no they don't. Powerplay is an advertised feature, has been promised for years, and it doesn't work for anybody. Your good-self included.

    Screen Shot 2020-05-24 at 06.01.36.png
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    Speakers: Magico M3,ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.4
    and Rack 1.1 amp stands (pair) | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere

    On order: Esoteric Grandioso D1X.
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  3. #53

    PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Sorry. I guess I didnít explain my thinking correctly. I bought a PS Audio regenerator to quiet my electrical noise. I plugged it in, and it did that. My system improved to my ears. Thatís all I was interested in. So, for me at least, it worked the way I wanted it to.


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  4. #54
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I moved from a problem free PSAudio P10 to the Denali 6000/s V2.

    I had used the P10 in a variety of configurations. Entire system, front end only, amps only etc. I was using it only on my front end and during the winter (non-thunderstorm periods) had my amps plugged directly to their own 20 amp lines. This clearly sounded better.

    I purchased the Denali 6000/S V2 based on reviews and first connected it just to my amps. Hmmm, big improvement over having the amps connected to the P10 or directly into the wall. I then connected my entire system to the Denali with the help of a PS Audio Dectet. Huge improvement as mentioned before in dynamics and weight. My system became more relaxed and my P10 sits on the floor doing nothing.

  5. #55
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    PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    It's a massive improvement. I upgraded from the p10 to the Denali V2


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  6. #56
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I installed my new Denali today. Can't say I hear any difference at all. Whereas yesterday I changed from Belden BAV XLR to Iconoclast 4x4 Gen2 TPC interconnect and the improvement is easily noticeable. I put those Iconoclast very close to my Crystal Cable I/C but at a fraction of the cost.

    I'm wondering if the quality of the power supplies in the electronics might have a big influence on any performance gains in using a Denali. My Halcro power amps probably don't care too much about the quality of the power going into them. Same applies for my Esoteric gear. If the pedigree of your starting point is lower might bring about the bigger gains with Denali.

    Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 14.14.50.png
    Speakers: Magico M3,ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.4
    and Rack 1.1 amp stands (pair) | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere

    On order: Esoteric Grandioso D1X.
    On wish list: Shunyata Research Everest.
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  7. #57
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    I installed my new Denali today. Can't say I hear any difference at all. Whereas yesterday I changed from Belden BAV XLR to Iconoclast 4x4 Gen2 TPC interconnect and the improvement is easily noticeable. I put those Iconoclast very close to my Crystal Cable I/C but at a fraction of the cost.

    I'm wondering if the quality of the power supplies in the electronics might have a big influence on any performance gains in using a Denali. My Halcro power amps probably don't care too much about the quality of the power going into them. Same applies for my Esoteric gear. If the pedigree of your starting point is lower might bring about the bigger gains with Denali.

    Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 14.14.50.png
    Give it a week or so. I didnít think much of it at first either.


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  8. #58
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I remember hearing an obvious improvement when I added a P10 to feed my Devialet 240.

    Now the difference is a lot less obvious since upgrade to a 250 Pro CI and now 1000 Pro CI.

    They improved significantly the power section and I understand that current peaks are delivered by internally stored current so that the impact of power delivery appears to be reduced.

    In my book either you perceive a difference when you add a component or pretty much never. I have managed to convince myself a few times that it did improve after a few weeks, but subsequent tests revealed it was most probably wishful thinking. At least in my case.

    Cheers,
    Bernard

  9. #59
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I been using a Shunyata Hydra 8 with very satisfactory results for at least fifteen years. My power c-j ART power amp does go directly to the wall through an Audioquest Hurricane cord. Sometime last year Michael had an almost new AQ 5000 traded in on the 7000. He doesn't seem to take trades except for current products purchased from him. He offered it to me at a good price to move it out. I took it, subject to trial at home. Honestly, in my system I was surprised to hear little improvement, and as an old retired guy, a little improvement won't do. Back it went, think he's still annoyed but it moved quickly and all is good. I now have the Denali V2 with their top power cable. I heard a immediate and significant improvement. More, richer bass, better transients, sweeter, better highs. This thing is the real deal and unlike the 5000, my old bones can move it around for installation. And the power amp is now operating through the Denali. Thanks Michael.
    Wilson Yvette speakers, Conrad-Johnson GAT pre, TEA1bc phono, and ART 27A Amplifier, Marantz digital player, Wireworld Gold and Platinum ICs, USB and power cables, Rega Planar 10 turntable/ Apheta cartridge, Nordost Valhalla 2 speaker cables, AQ Hurricane and Tornado power cables, Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2, Sigma NR PC and DELTA USB cords, Symposium and Stillpoint vibration control, JL Audio Fathom 113 subwoofer, dCS Bartok Streamer/DAC

  10. #60
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
    I been using a Shunyata Hydra 8 with very satisfactory results for at least fifteen years. My power c-j ART power amp does go directly to the wall through an Audioquest Hurricane cord. Sometime last year Michael had an almost new AQ 5000 traded in on the 7000. He doesn't seem to take trades except for current products purchased from him. He offered it to me at a good price to move it out. I took it, subject to trial at home. Honestly, in my system I was surprised to hear little improvement, and as an old retired guy, a little improvement won't do. Back it went, think he's still annoyed but it moved quickly and all is good. I now have the Denali V2 with their top power cable. I heard a immediate and significant improvement. More, richer bass, better transients, sweeter, better highs. This thing is the real deal and unlike the 5000, my old bones can move it around for installation. And the power amp is now operating through the Denali. Thanks Michael.
    Youíre very welcome. But I do take trades of most products. We have seven storage units full of crap, errr...I mean stuff. Some stuff I swear will never move. A four channel Ayre amp from the 90ís is one! We use it now as a stepping stool to reach the boxes higher up. Itís free to anyone who wants to drive over and pick it up. PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    What I find funny is when someone will call me and tell me ďIíve got a Luxman tuner from the 80ís, a McIntosh CD player, doesnít work, but Iím sure you can get it fixed and some Klipsch speakers. How about I give you all that and you give me some new Pass amps?Ē

    LOL.

    The Denali 6000s/V2 is the real deal indeed. Thatís what I have at home.




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  11. #61
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post

    The Denali 6000s/V2 is the real deal indeed. Thatís what I have at home.

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  12. #62

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    The Denali 6000s/V2 is the real deal indeed. Thatís what I have at home.
    Iíve had my fill of problematic Power Plants and have moved on to Shunyata. I presently have 4 Denali 6000s/v2ís, 2 in my main home and 2 in vacation homes. Also an Everest is on the way.

  13. #63
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by RLF View Post
    I’ve had my fill of problematic Power Plants and have moved on to Shunyata. I presently have 4 Denali 6000s/v2’s, 2 in my main home and 2 in vacation homes. Also an Everest is on the way.
    I bet I've had more problematic Power Plants than your good self. Certainly in the reliability measure I rate them as JUNK. Although other luckier punters have had better luck than me. But I say, luck shouldn't come into it. I now have a Shunyata 6000/S.
    Speakers: Magico M3,ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.4
    and Rack 1.1 amp stands (pair) | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere

    On order: Esoteric Grandioso D1X.
    On wish list: Shunyata Research Everest.
    On sale: Everything!

  14. #64

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I have had my Power Plant for probably 8 years or so and it has been perfect. I have been looking at the Denali and found a few things interesting. The first thing is Shunyata is very protective of their technology and finding information about what they are doing is very hard to find. Also, I am a little surprised at the low count of components inside the case, lots of air in there. I am impressed they use vibration control mats on the inside of the case surfaces. This probably explains some of the repeated comments by users such as added bass weight and smoother highs. Their products work, no question about it, but their approach by addressing the electrical side as well as the mechanical side is impressive. I could go on about how vibration changes the sound of every component in a system but I will be called a fruitcake if I do. Cheers all and belated happy new year.

  15. #65
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    [QUOTE=I purchased the Denali 6000/S V2 based on reviews and first connected it just to my amps. Hmmm, big improvement over having the amps connected to the P10 or directly into the wall. I then connected my entire system to the Denali with the help of a PS Audio Dectet. Huge improvement as mentioned before in dynamics and weight. My system became more relaxed and my P10 sits on the floor doing nothing.[/QUOTE]

    I was led to believe from another forum not to use my PS Audio Dectet with my Denali 6000s v2. Any comments?
    Paul

    Speakers: Von Schweikert VR-5 Anniversary MK II Front L/R, LCR-35 Center, VR-1 Rear L/R Sub: JL Audio F113
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  16. #66
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by stereogeek View Post
    I could go on about how vibration changes the sound of every component in a system but I will be called a fruitcake if I do.
    Fruitcake or no, you'd be right about the impact of vibration on the sound of every component.

    As for what's inside Shunyata power distributors, its not the "amount of stuff" that's important, it's what the components inside DO that important. And the closer one can get to ideal or optimal functionality with fewer parts, the better; this is basis for Altschuler's Theory of Ideality, a key conceptual paradigm for TRIZ.

  17. #67
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by stereogeek View Post
    ..I could go on about how vibration changes the sound of every component in a system but I will be called a fruitcake if I do...
    Speaking of which. I just read in the news, in response to the current situation in Washington D.C., somebody high up in the US political system called President Trump "as nutty as a fruit cake". I wasn't aware fruit cake had nuts, I just assumed it was made of dried fruit. And I quite like fruitcake, so calling somebody a "fruitcake" would be lost on me the inference that was being made.
    Speakers: Magico M3,ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso | Amplification: Halcro |
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    and Rack 1.1 amp stands (pair) | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere

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    On wish list: Shunyata Research Everest.
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  18. #68
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    Speaking of which. I just read in the news, in response to the current situation in Washington D.C., somebody high up in the US political system called President Trump "as nutty as a fruit cake". I wasn't aware fruit cake had nuts, I just assumed it was made of dried fruit. And I quite like fruitcake, so calling somebody a "fruitcake" would be lost on me the inference that was being made.
    Many fruitcakes sold in the US during holiday seasons often have a lot of nuts, usually walnuts. "Nutty as a fruitcake" is an American saying that goes way back...

  19. #69

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    Fruitcake or no, you'd be right about the impact of vibration on the sound of every component.

    As for what's inside Shunyata power distributors, its not the "amount of stuff" that's important, it's what the components inside DO that important. And the closer one can get to ideal or optimal functionality with fewer parts, the better; this is basis for Altschuler's Theory of Ideality, a key conceptual paradigm for TRIZ.
    I agree 100% about how it's not about the amount of stuff in there but how it works. I also agree about how keeping it simple is key. Short story time....I bought an Aragon 4004 MKII amp many years ago to drive a pair of KEF's. To me the amp was horrible, it had that upper midrange/lower treble bump that drove me nuts. I sent it to a guy who modified it to smooth it out. He did a nice job and it sounded nice so I opened it up and saw he changed a few inches of power wiring and glued different kinds of wood to the inside of the top cover. Me and my buddy were laughing when we pulled the cover, we weren't laughing when we fired it up and played music. Cheers.

  20. #70
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Audiophilehi View Post
    I was led to believe from another forum not to use my PS Audio Dectet with my Denali 6000s v2. Any comments?
    Anyone?
    Paul

    Speakers: Von Schweikert VR-5 Anniversary MK II Front L/R, LCR-35 Center, VR-1 Rear L/R Sub: JL Audio F113
    Amps: PS Audio BHK Signature 300 Mono, McIntosh MC207 Pre-Amp PS Audio BHK Signature and Gold Note PH-10 Phono Stage/PSU-10 Power Supply
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    AC Power Regeneration: PS Audio DirectStream P15 Power Plant and Shunyata Denali 6000s V2.

  21. #71
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Audiophilehi View Post
    Anyone?
    I wouldn't use it, if it were me. The Dectet achieves noise attenuation by the use of inductors, and my experience, these "chokes" choke the life out of music, robbing it dynamics, immediacy and lifelikeness. If you need another power distributor to have more outlets, you're better off getting another power Shunyata distributor, or something along the lines of the Venom PS8 power distributor, something that will not impact DTCD.

  22. #72
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    I wouldn't use it, if it were me. The Dectet achieves noise attenuation by the use of inductors, and my experience, these "chokes" choke the life out of music, robbing it dynamics, immediacy and lifelikeness. If you need another power distributor to have more outlets, you're better off getting another power Shunyata distributor, or something along the lines of the Venom PS8 power distributor, something that will not impact DTCD.
    Thank Stephen...appreciate the response and as always the great advice.
    Paul

    Speakers: Von Schweikert VR-5 Anniversary MK II Front L/R, LCR-35 Center, VR-1 Rear L/R Sub: JL Audio F113
    Amps: PS Audio BHK Signature 300 Mono, McIntosh MC207 Pre-Amp PS Audio BHK Signature and Gold Note PH-10 Phono Stage/PSU-10 Power Supply
    Turntable: VPI HR-X 12.7 TONEARM (2) and SDS, Stillpoints LPI
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    Wireworld Platinum Starlight 7 (USB)
    AC Power Regeneration: PS Audio DirectStream P15 Power Plant and Shunyata Denali 6000s V2.

  23. #73
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Audiophilehi View Post
    Thank Stephen...appreciate the response and as always the great advice.
    You're welcome, Paul. Cheers, mate!

  24. #74

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I decided to break down and I ordered a Denali v2 from Mike the other day as the fan on my PS Audio Power Plant Premier is starting to make a bit of noise. I was going to pull it apart and see if a little bit of oil on the shaft would quiet it down but decided not to dig into it. Quite honestly, I am not expecting any big changes. Cheers.

  25. #75
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by stereogeek View Post
    I decided to break down and I ordered a Denali v2 from Mike the other day as the fan on my PS Audio Power Plant Premier is starting to make a bit of noise. I was going to pull it apart and see if a little bit of oil on the shaft would quiet it down but decided not to dig into it. Quite honestly, I am not expecting any big changes. Cheers.
    Interesting. They could be vey different. Keep us posted please.
    Wilson Yvette speakers, Conrad-Johnson GAT pre, TEA1bc phono, and ART 27A Amplifier, Marantz digital player, Wireworld Gold and Platinum ICs, USB and power cables, Rega Planar 10 turntable/ Apheta cartridge, Nordost Valhalla 2 speaker cables, AQ Hurricane and Tornado power cables, Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2, Sigma NR PC and DELTA USB cords, Symposium and Stillpoint vibration control, JL Audio Fathom 113 subwoofer, dCS Bartok Streamer/DAC

  26. #76
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
    Interesting. They could be very different.
    Ya think? LOL.

    This will be interesting...

  27. #77
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by stereogeek View Post
    I decided to break down and I ordered a Denali v2 from Mike the other day as the fan on my PS Audio Power Plant Premier is starting to make a bit of noise. I was going to pull it apart and see if a little bit of oil on the shaft would quiet it down but decided not to dig into it. Quite honestly, I am not expecting any big changes. Cheers.
    Youíll be happy you did. I went from a PS Audio PPP to a P15 and then a Denali v2. I still have the P15 but a much prefer the Denali.
    Paul

    Speakers: Von Schweikert VR-5 Anniversary MK II Front L/R, LCR-35 Center, VR-1 Rear L/R Sub: JL Audio F113
    Amps: PS Audio BHK Signature 300 Mono, McIntosh MC207 Pre-Amp PS Audio BHK Signature and Gold Note PH-10 Phono Stage/PSU-10 Power Supply
    Turntable: VPI HR-X 12.7 TONEARM (2) and SDS, Stillpoints LPI
    Tape Deck Otari 5050B II2
    Music Server: Aurender N100H
    Cartridges: Ortofon Cadenza Black, Lyra Helikon Mono Digital Source: Oppo UDP-205 DAC: Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE
    SSP: Marantz AV8801 Cables: Wireworld Electra 7 (P) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7, Shunyata Delta NR (I) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 (S)
    Wireworld Platinum Starlight 7 (USB)
    AC Power Regeneration: PS Audio DirectStream P15 Power Plant and Shunyata Denali 6000s V2.

  28. #78

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I put the Denali in the system this afternoon and I will say without any doubt that the Denali has tighter bass and better definition than the PPP. It is also more musical with better pace and drive. It took all of 30 seconds or so to decide it was staying in the system. It's weird but I don't go back and forth and A-B different components. I just change them out and it's either more musical or it's not. So, in the last year I have changed every component in my system, including cables and the equipment rack. In every instance it has been a positive change. Going to Volti speakers has been the biggest change. Going to an Ayon preamp is the next positive change. Going to a Pass XA25 and going to an Ayon CD player are probably tied for the next dramatic change. Adding the Denali is the next improvement, it's not a huge improvement but a worthwhile one. Now I am jones'n for a 20 or 30 wpc tube amp (wtf).....cheers.

  29. #79
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by stereogeek View Post
    ..I was going to pull it apart and see if a little bit of oil on the shaft would quiet it down..
    A PPP is easy to pull apart. Don't bother with the oil idea, just replace the whole fan. It's a stock standard cheap part. Once you've done that sell it and keep the Denali.
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  30. #80

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    A PPP is easy to pull apart. Don't bother with the oil idea, just replace the whole fan. It's a stock standard cheap part. Once you've done that sell it and keep the Denali.
    Thanks for the info, I'll pull it apart tonight.

  31. #81

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    A few more thoughts on the Denali. Besides the positive changes noted above the instruments are clearly better separated which equates to a more relaxed and musical experience. I have everything (which isn't much) plugged into it, my cd player, preamp and power amp. At the most my system draws about 650 watts which is about 5.5 amps. With the sensitive speakers I am using the amp is probably loafing along at 5 to 10 watts. I mention this as I am using a 15 amp to 20 amp IEC adaptor as I have at least a couple dozen power cords, however none are the 20 amp type. I was going to purchase a 20 amp cord but I really wanted to try the Denali with the current cords I had in the system. Overall I am extremely pleased and the PPP will be demoted to TV duty. Cheers.

  32. #82

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    My owner's manual for my preamp says not to use any power conditioning at all but I have had it plugged into the Denali the whole time. So I unplugged the Ayon from the Denali and plugged it directly into the wall. It's a bit more musical this way and a bit better pace and drive. I should have tried this a while ago but there are so many things that affect the sound it's nuts. When in doubt read ( and understand ) the owner's manual.

  33. #83
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    99.9% of the time, power conditioning is useless.


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  34. #84
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hole46 View Post
    99.9% of the time, power conditioning is useless.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Said no one ever.


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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Say a lot of people


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  36. #86
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    PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hole46 View Post
    Say a lot of people


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    People uneducated on the topic? Agreed.

    Nobodies line noise measures perfect without a conditioner. A power conditioner can help achieve a much much lower noise floor. Iíll agree, amps are the wild card. But preamps and sources can absolutely benefit.

    Line noise masks itself in the upper registers. Itís easily heard in an A/B comparison.

    Without a power conditioner, what does your line noise measure?

    Try using something like this, and measure, then connect to a power conditioner and measure at the power conditioner:

    Dirty Electricity Meter by Trifield - Model EM100 - EMI Power Line Noise Analyzer - Know Your Electricity @ Home, Office, Shop - Made in USA by Alphalab, Inc. Amazon.com


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  37. #87

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    For clarification the Ayon has a power conditioning circuit built into the preamp. Not sure whether double conditioning is an issue or having all of my components plugged into the Denali is creating some kind of noise contamination. I believe the Denali is a parallel type conditioner so it is still conditioning the preamp to some degree. This was not meant in any way to slam the Denali as it is a bad ass component. I was just trying to show that usually the manufacturer knows their equipment better than us hobbyists.

  38. #88

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Does anyone else have equipment that the manufacturer says not to use power conditioning or regeneration? If so, did you try it without it and with it? I did read the manual first but I assumed it had to better with it. Oops.

  39. #89
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    All other things being equal, the PS Audio devices are big audio power amps with lots of parts running at high voltages and currents, whereas the Shunyata devices are passive filters so will be much more reliable over time. Itís not a slam or endorsement, itís reliability engineering 101.
    Tom

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  40. #90

    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    M9TR, appreciate the info but still wondering if other folks have components where the manual says do not use conditioning or regeneration. Cheers

  41. #91
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by stereogeek View Post
    M9TR, appreciate the info but still wondering if other folks have components where the manual says do not use conditioning or regeneration. Cheers
    Certainly using conditioning or regeneration wont hurt anything. So then its experimenting with your gear to see what sounds best to you.
    I do know that regenerators don't have the current output to run big SS power amps, even if they fall within the specs of the regenerator.


    There are so many variables with the equipment itself. For example if your gear uses R-Core transformers, it won't be bothered by line noise as much as something that uses a toroidal transformer. Most big SS amps use toroidal transformers - they also need super high current delivery from the mains, so the whole Shunyata DTCD thing makes sense in this case. For a preamp with an R-Core transformer, or a lower power tube amp, not so much.
    Tom

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    C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
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  42. #92
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I have both the P20 and just got a Denali 6000 v2, not to replace the P20 but to filter other components which wonít reach the P20.

    They do different things. The P20 is overall more versatile, as it produces perfect 120V sine wave power. Almost no one has perfect voltage coming out of the wall, and despite what you may believe, components sound differently if voltage is not perfect (source: Taiko Audio).
    A Denali wonít do anything to fix that. Nor will it generate a perfect sine wave, nor lower impedenace.

    Michael Fremer prefers the P20 above all other conditioners/regenerators.

    Reliability - I have had my P20 for 4 years and itís been running 24-7 with Zero issues. Nothing. Yes, the older PPP units were unreliable. Not so with the P series. I had a P5 before the P20 for ~6 years, and it was also bullet-proof. Trading in a P series because of fears of breakdown is silly.

    The big advantage of the Denali is that it filters components - so a noisy component will not affect another component. PS Audio units donít do that. So if you plug in a switch mode power supply, for example, it will add noise to your entire system with a P20; but not with a Denali.

    You canít say one is better over the other. Ideally, you would use both (in parallel), because the Denali cleans the power and puts it back into the circuit.

  43. #93
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I had PS Audio PPP, P3, P5, P10, P15. They all failed. I haven't owned P20 but I know of others who have had issues and ended up selling them. Those in 240V land do seem to have far more issues than 120V. The PS Audio forums are full of defect reports, which is why I'm looking at alternatives.
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  44. #94
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    PS Audio forms are certainly not full of issues with the P5/10/15/20. Fake news.
    As I mentioned, the previous Gen had issues. Current Gen are rock solid.
    You get benefits from the P series that no conditioner will provide.
    What is best for you will depend on many factors; but you canít go wrong with a P series regenerator or a Shunyata conditioner.
    The best is a hybrid solution with both devices.

  45. #95
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surge View Post
    PS Audio forms are certainly not full of issues with the P5/10/15/20. Fake news.
    I disagree. As a PS Audio product owner and follower of the community forums for 20 years, including forum community leader status for about 7 years, the forums are full of reports of stuff that doesn't work properly. Many many hundreds, particularly in 240V markets.
    Speakers: Magico M3,ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso | Amplification: Halcro |
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  46. #96
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    I disagree. As a PS Audio product owner and follower of the community forums for 20 years, including forum community leader status for about 7 years, the forums are full of reports of stuff that doesn't work properly. Many many hundreds, particularly in 240V markets.
    Fair enough. Iíve also owned the PPP since ~2004 and then P5 for about a decade, and for the past few years, the P20, and I check the PSA Forum regularly. I did have issues with the PPP, but no issues with the P5 and P20. I havenít read any forum posts about hardware failures ó not saying they donít exist ó itís just not prevalent. Maybe earlier on they had issues, I didnít get the P5 when it came out. I waited at least 3 years, if memory serves.

    The P series are overall the best product you can get. You get completely regenerated AC, at precisely 120V (or whatever your market requires). Even a few volts difference can affect the sound/picture. You also have a significantly lowered output impedance. The only way plugging into a wall directly is better is if you have a very high quality transformer and dedicated line.

    The Achilles heal of the P series is that they donít filter noise between components that are connected to it. So your Ďwall wartí or switching power supplies, or just about any power supply in a sub ~$30K component (or even above), is likely to send noise out back to the line.
    I suspect this is why some say the Shunyata conditioners can sound better.

  47. #97
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surge View Post
    ...I havenít read any forum posts about hardware failures...
    The guy who bought two P20's and they both arrived DOA was probably unlucky then. Blame it on FedEx despite no damages to the box. Easy. And all the others. The 120V models do seem to be more resilient than the 240V models, I would agree with that. The DirectStream Memory Transport fiasco was the last straw for me. I can put up with 10 dead power plants (every power plant I owned failed) because they get repaired under warranty. And because PS Audio sold to me direct at 50% MSRP, which was the main sweetener why I suffered their junk products for so long. I might just hang tight for the time being, the new Esoteric won't arrive for another two months. I'll reassess my options in September.
    Speakers: Magico M3,ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso | Amplification: Halcro |
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  48. #98
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    I bought my P20 and P10 direct from PSA a few years ago. They have worked without issue in two different systems since their arrival.

  49. #99
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    And they are 120V versions, no doubt.
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  50. #100
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    Re: PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

    Yes, they are.

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