Niagara 7000 vs Denali 6000T - my experience

**Mike** · May 21, 2017, 05:34 PM

#1. There is much more air and extension in #1. To me, #2 seems rolled off and the air in the flute is missing.

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**Alpinist** · May 21, 2017, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

#1. There is much more air and extension in #1. To me, #2 seems rolled off and the air in the flute is missing.

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Hi Mike,

That's the really interesting thing about this hobby. Everyone hears differently and has different sonic preferences and priorities. No absolutes on what sounds best, only what you prefer.

Best,
Ken

**kzhtoo** · May 21, 2017, 07:07 PM

#2 for me as well. It sounds more palpable and relaxed.

**cmarin** · May 21, 2017, 07:25 PM

Hi Ken,

As you point out, we hear differently and have different preferences.

But if you further confound the test by adding differences among the playback system used by each listener, not to mention the limitations in our aural memory, then it is easy to see why consensus on which conditioner is "better", between two comparatively "good" conditioners, would be the exception rather than the rule.

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**Alpinist** · May 22, 2017, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by cmarin

Hi Ken,

As you point out, we hear differently and have different preferences.

But if you further confound the test by adding differences among the playback system used by each listener, not to mention the limitations in our aural memory, then it is easy to see why consensus on which conditioner is "better", between two comparatively "good" conditioners, would be the exception rather than the rule.

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Hi Carlos,

Just out of curiosity, which one did you prefer on the video?

Best,
Ken

**johndoe21ro** · May 22, 2017, 05:34 PM

I like the second one more! The first seems to sounds brighter and drier... more synthetic. In the second part the guitar sounds nicer. I also like the strings better and also the trumpets/winds sound more realistic/fuller I guess. But it's more complicated... I think I have to be actually there to hear the differences. Youtube is not 'safe' and one track might be irrelevant. Maybe the recording favors one solution over the other. I don't know if opera or classical doesn't sound better with one solution and blues or jazz or rock with the other...

**Mike** · May 22, 2017, 05:36 PM

Well, this is going to be interesting when the results are revealed. My gut feeling is that 1 is Denali, 2 is AQ.

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**Rnrmf** · May 22, 2017, 05:46 PM

I liked the second. It sounded more focused and natural, to me.
Then again, that's what I thought of my Triton vs the PS Audio P10 when I had them both.

I've never heard the Denali and not sure if these are attributes of it.

**Alpinist** · May 22, 2017, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Well, this is going to be interesting when the results are revealed. My gut feeling is that 1 is Denali, 2 is AQ.

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I have no idea which is which, but whichever is #2 is going to get a demo by me.

Ken

**GSOphile** · May 22, 2017, 10:56 PM

#2 more real

**joeinid** · May 22, 2017, 11:04 PM

I still prefer #2 better. Sure, it seems a little bit muted compared to #1 but over the long term, less fatigue for me in #2. I can see how some would think #2 is a little more boring but that's my take.

Originally Posted by joeinid

I think that I like the second test or conditioner 2 more than the first. Seemed a little less bright, smoother and a little fuller. I'll try again later on my computer and see if I still feel the same way.

**Devg** · May 23, 2017, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Well, this is going to be interesting when the results are revealed. My gut feeling is that 1 is Denali, 2 is AQ.

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Mike, since you have used both of them, was that your experience as well ?

**Alpinist** · May 23, 2017, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

#1. There is much more air and extension in #1. To me, #2 seems rolled off and the air in the flute is missing.

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Originally Posted by Devg

Mike, since you have used both of them, was that your experience as well ?

Mike is the only one so far on this thread that preferred #1 on the video, which he thinks is the Denali 6000.

I think #2 sounds more natural and more lifelike, whichever it is.

Ken

**cmarin** · May 23, 2017, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Hi Carlos,

Just out of curiosity, which one did you prefer on the video?

Best,
Ken

Hi Ken,

A few observations before answering your question.

First, my criteria for evaluating sonic quality is whether I become engaged in the music.

In this case, the music was not my cup of tea, so engagement was not really possible for me. So instead I listened for traditional audiophile criteria (e.g., air, lifelike timbers, soundstage etc).

I first listened in my car while driving and I couldn't tell the difference. I then stopped the car and listened. The lower noise floor made it easier to hear details that were obscured by the road noise. I went back and forth between the two versions several times. In the end the differences in my car stereo were not dramatically different. But if you put a gun to my head and forced me to decide, I'd say the second version checked off more audiophile criteria. But it wasn't a dramatic difference.

Perhaps I would have chosen differently if I had heard it on my reference system.

For the record I have a Denali conditioner, but it has been relegated to the bullpen. I have not heard the other conditioner.

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**Devg** · May 23, 2017, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Mike is the only one so far on this thread that preferred #1 on the video, which he thinks is the Denali 6000.

I think #2 sounds more natural and more lifelike, whichever it is.

Ken

Agree. Mike is the odd man out

**bonzo** · May 23, 2017, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by cmarin

Hi Ken,

For the record I have a Denali conditioner, but it has been relegated to the bullpen. I have not heard the other conditioner.

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What are you using now?

**Kuoppis** · May 23, 2017, 03:24 AM

I tried to listen to it on an iPad, and frankly speaking there is little difference to be honest. Based on that I would however maybe join Mike in the odd camp. On a quick listen #2 sounds better, somehow sweeter, but I found #1 to be more neutral.

I will however try once more through a laptop and my system later on today and see whether there is a definitive preference to be made in my ears.

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**Kuoppis** · May 23, 2017, 03:40 AM

Comparing take 1 and 2 - still on iPad but with decent headphones - I am definitely in the odd camp. Choice is #1 as I find it more neutral and precise, the stand-up bass is muddled in #2.

My wild guess would be that #2 is the Niagara, as it messes with the electricity more than the Shunyata does. Similar effect as can be observed with the PS Audio Power Regenerators.

And of course the chance is 50/50 that I am wrong

Niagara 7000 vs Denali 6000T - my experience

. Which would mean to me that the Niagara brings something new to the table the Shunyata before did not.

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**cmarin** · May 23, 2017, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by bonzo

What are you using now?

Hi Bonzo,

I'm using an AC Nexus Power System from HiFi One. And awaiting production of a custom balanced power transformer.

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**Kuoppis** · May 23, 2017, 07:29 AM

Through my main system I could live with either one, not very significant a difference as I find. There was a more audible difference through the iPad with headphones and no DAC in between.

Reason might be that I have a Meitner DAC, which up-samples all incoming data to double DSD

.

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**laynesaddiction** · May 25, 2017, 05:33 PM

My wife and I gave this video a listen on our system. As with others giving some disclaimers, weare not familiar with the music, not sure how accurate it is to use a YouTubevideo for a source, and wish there was a way to use various types of music (more familiar to us and more than just one track) to come to a more informed decision. Anyway, since we own a Niagara 7000, it will be interesting to see which is which especially since we demoed the Shunyata (a wonderful product too) also and chose the Niagara for ourtastes.

We both felt there was a distinct difference between #1 and #2 and felt that neither was bad for our tastes. However, when thinking about which one we preferred, my wife chose #1 (Mike, you now have company) and I chose #2.

She picked #1 due to what she considered was a finer detail (crisper images). In her mind, after hearing #1, #2 sounded a bit “slow” and not as clear.

I picked #2 due to my thoughts that it sounded more “musical” to my ears. Oddly even though I agree that #1 has more air (flute example Mike gave) and had a finer detail in someways (my wife’s observation), I found #1 a little lean for my taste (#2 had more meat on the bones to my ears).

Furthermore, #2 IMHO seemed to render the timbre of the instruments more accurately to my ears (one example being when the trumpet hands off to the trombone in parts of the song). The hand claps on #1 seemed a little less real and non-meaty (they also felt about 2 rows further back on #2 for some reason to my ears vs. #1).

Finally, I had a better sense of resonances on #2 (the kick drum at the beginning being one example where I heard more of the enclosure than on #1).

Anyway, to each his/her own.

Does anyone have an idea as to when we will find out which was which?

Thanks.

**Alpinist** · May 25, 2017, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by laynesaddiction

My wife and I gave this video a listen on our system. As with others giving some disclaimers, weare not familiar with the music, not sure how accurate it is to use a YouTubevideo for a source, and wish there was a way to use various types of music (more familiar to us and more than just one track) to come to a more informed decision. Anyway, since we own a Niagara 7000, it will be interesting to see which is which especially since we demoed the Shunyata (a wonderful product too) also and chose the Niagara for ourtastes.

We both felt there was a distinct difference between #1 and #2 and felt that neither was bad for our tastes. However, when thinking about which one we preferred, my wife chose #1 (Mike, you now have company) and I chose #2.

She picked #1 due to what she considered was a finer detail (crisper images). In her mind, after hearing #1, #2 sounded a bit “slow” and not as clear.

I picked #2 due to my thoughts that it sounded more “musical” to my ears. Oddly even though I agree that #1 has more air (flute example Mike gave) and had a finer detail in someways (my wife’s observation), I found #1 a little lean for my taste (#2 had more meat on the bones to my ears).

Furthermore, #2 IMHO seemed to render the timbre of the instruments more accurately to my ears (one example being when the trumpet hands off to the trombone in parts of the song). The hand claps on #1 seemed a little less real and non-meaty (they also felt about 2 rows further back on #2 for some reason to my ears vs. #1).

Finally, I had a better sense of resonances on #2 (the kick drum at the beginning being one example where I heard more of the enclosure than on #1).

Anyway, to each his/her own.

Does anyone have an idea as to when we will find out which was which?

Thanks.

Great post, Anthony! I totally agree with you and your wife's description of tracks #1 and #2. Track #1 was more clear, faster, had more detail and more air in the highs. It also seemed a bit bright in the treble and thin in the midrange. Track #2 sounded more relaxed in the treble with more body and natural presentation in the midrange. But it lacked the clarity, detail and dynamics of Track #1, especially in the treble. In the end, the musicality and non-fatiguing sound of Track# 2 won out for me but I could see how someone could prefer the attributes of Track #1 as well. YMMV.

To get the results, you'll have to join the Analog Planet website and prod Michael Fremer to reveal the results.

Best,
Ken

**Alpinist** · May 28, 2017, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Well, this is going to be interesting when the results are revealed. My gut feeling is that 1 is Denali, 2 is AQ.

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I finally had the opportunity to read the Stereophile review of the Denali 6000 and after reading Michael Fremer's description of the sound of the Denali 6000 and Niagara 7000, I totally agree with Mike's picks: #1 = Denali 6000 and #2 = Niagara 7000. The two power conditioners sound so much different in my opinion on the music Fremer played, I would think that someone would definitely prefer one or the other but couldn't be neutral on the choice. It really comes down to what you prefer in terms of sound. #1 is clearer, brighter, faster and more dynamic. #2 has more midrange body, less treble and a smoother and more relaxed presentation. I'll avoid using descriptors like "musical" or "natural" because they are arbitrary.

For me, #2 best matches the sound of my system. I like being able to play hours on end with zero listener fatigue. When I redesigned my system, I made sure that each individual component or cable did not add any brightness to my system. Getting #2 would stick to that theme.

Best,
Ken

**Audio 1** · May 29, 2017, 03:38 PM

I see that the results are now posted on the Analog Planet website.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content...ment-explained

**Rnrmf** · May 29, 2017, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Rnrmf

I liked the second. It sounded more focused and natural, to me.
Then again, that's what I thought of my Triton vs the PS Audio P10 when I had them both.

I've never heard the Denali and not sure if these are attributes of it.

I'm pleased the results correspond to what I heard. I won't stress over second guessing my power delivery.

**joeinid** · May 29, 2017, 04:10 PM

Hmmm, So I am a Denali lover

I guess you'd be able to help tune your system with the appropriate conditioner.

**Devg** · May 29, 2017, 04:25 PM

Yeah, seems like I am a Denali lover as well.

Curious as to why did Mike and others thought it was the opposite ?

**joeinid** · May 29, 2017, 04:40 PM

It's funny, just by the comments of prospective users and some who've heard them independently, I expected the Denali to be #1 and the Niagara to be #2. I am actually very surprised by the results and a bit more curious now.

Originally Posted by Devg

Yeah, seems like I am a Denali lover as well.

Curious as to why did Mike and others thought it was the opposite ?

**Mike** · May 29, 2017, 04:52 PM

Interesting!

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**cmarin** · May 29, 2017, 05:15 PM

Mike,

Yes, very interesting.

Do you own both the Denali and the Niagra conditioners?

If you do, It would be interesting to see how what you hear by listening to the same LP cut on your system with each conditioner compares with what you heard when playing back the "YouTube" versions.

Would venture to guess that the lower quality playback from the "YouTube" versions likely confounds the differences between the conditioners. And that removing the "YouTube" step from the playback chain would likely make the preferences between conditioners clearer; but the choice would still likely remain highly system dependent.

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**Alpinist** · May 29, 2017, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Audio 1

I see that the results are now posted on the Analog Planet website.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content...ment-explained

Oh no!!!!!! Pass the crow please. LOL. Well, back to the drawing board!

Ken

**cmarin** · May 29, 2017, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Oh no!!!!!! Pass the crow please. LOL. Well, back to the drawing board!

Ken

I've had that dish before. Many times. It could be worse

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**kzhtoo** · May 29, 2017, 06:29 PM

So I have Denali and picked #2. Did I win something?

**Mike** · May 29, 2017, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

So I have Denali and picked #2. Did I win something?

Yes! A new Denali for only $4995.

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**Devg** · May 29, 2017, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

So I have Denali and picked #2. Did I win something?

Yes, you saved money from not having to buy a Niagara if the results were the other way around

**Alpinist** · May 29, 2017, 06:52 PM

Fremer's video was a lot of fun, even if I was wrong about which conditioner was which. I hope he does more of these blind tests. I did prefer #2 on the second video. I was so sure it was the Niagara 7000 from his description though.

Ken

**Alpinist** · May 29, 2017, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by cmarin

I've had that dish before. Many times. It could be worse

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**Alpinist** · May 29, 2017, 07:41 PM

It was nice of Michael Fremer to respond with the results the next day after I asked him on YouTube.

Ken

**Kuoppis** · May 29, 2017, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by cmarin

If you do, It would be interesting to see how what you hear by listening to the same LP cut on your system with each conditioner compares with what you heard when playing back the "YouTube" versions.

Pretty much what I was thinking. It is really hard to tell clear differences in a chain vinyl => 44.1 kHz digital => YouTube => browser => DAC, or to determine which element caused what effect for that matter. In that sense the test was a bit of a 'no brainer' I find, pun intended. Also my up-sampling DAC made the difference almost disappear compared to playback w/o DAC from the iPad.

When Stereophile originally did their 1:1 comparison, they did not hear a huge difference. IMHO a live comparison would be more meaningful.

Nevertheless, the Niagara might be worth a demo in my own system, as that appeared to be to my liking.

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**Alectiong** · May 30, 2017, 04:00 AM

Sorry, i am very slow. Denali is the one that sounded brighter and more dynamic?

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**Alpinist** · May 30, 2017, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Alectiong

Sorry, i am very slow. Denali is the one that sounded brighter and more dynamic?

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In post #50, you said you preferred the second one on the video. The second one was the Denali 6000 and the first one was the Audioquest 7000. It doesn't really matter what Fremer's description of the sound was, only what your ears preferred. Fremer said the Denali 6000 sounded brighter and more dynamic but I thought the Niagara 7000 did.

Best,
Ken

**kzhtoo** · May 30, 2017, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Yes! A new Denali for only $4995.

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Already got one from you, Mike.

**joeinid** · May 30, 2017, 03:32 PM

Ken,

I wholeheartedly agree.

But my preference seems to be the Denali. My thoughts now before I even consider something like either one is a mandatory in system demo to pick my overall preference.

Originally Posted by Alpinist

In post #50, you said you preferred the second one on the video. The second one was the Denali 6000 and the first one was the Audioquest 7000. It doesn't really matter what Fremer's description of the sound was, only what your ears preferred. Fremer said the Denali 6000 sounded brighter and more dynamic but I thought the Niagara 7000 did.

Best,
Ken

**Alpinist** · May 30, 2017, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Ken,

I wholeheartedly agree.

But my preference seems to be the Denali. My thoughts now before I even consider something like either one is a mandatory in system demo to pick my overall preference.

Hi Joe,

I am with you. Based on the YouTube comparison, I really preferred the Denali. But these power conditioners are so dependent on the system that an in-home demo is the only way to go. I do look forward to picking up some extra rack space if I get the 6000T.

Best,
Ken

**apichetk** · May 31, 2017, 04:26 AM

Has anyone compared the Niagara 5000/700 and Denali 6000 to Torus/Bryston BIT products? I'm considering the latter and wondering how they compared with the Niagara and Denali. Thanks!

**joeinid** · May 31, 2017, 06:51 AM

Welcome to the forum forum apichetk, thank you for joining.

**johndoe21ro** · June 1, 2017, 02:31 AM

I'm a little surprised of the results but I guess AQ philosophy is about resolution, dynamics and speed...
I still think though that one should test both solutions in their system in order to choose the right power conditioner. Audiophilia is all about matching - every gear reacts differently and rooms are extremely important regarding the frequency response... Different power conditioners might require the tester to reposition their loudspeakers (farther away from the walls, more or less toe-in, etc.).

**laynesaddiction** · June 1, 2017, 06:29 PM

Well, I guess yet again, my wife's ears are more astute than mine (she picked #1, I picked #2, we own a Niagara). Now the interesting thing to me (and something I need to ponder) is that prior to purchasing the Niagara, we demoed both units and both felt (for our tastes) compelled to get the Niagara. So, I wonder why I picked #2 (Shunyata) this time? Not familiar enough with the music? My USB card/connection on the DAC presents the music differently/jives with the Shunyata better (which I connected a laptop to play the video) vs. the I2S connection I normally use? Only one track vs. hours of comparisons the first time? I am full of crap? ;-)

Who knows? Although we did change two items (speakers and speaker cables) in the system since buying the Niagara, so maybe that is contributing something too.

Either way, I found this exercise pretty cool.

**Robd2** · December 25, 2017, 01:47 PM

Hi Guys, this has been a great thread. I'm looking at one of these units as my first 2018 purchase. Now that many months have past any more experiences to share with either unit?

Mike, did I see in another thread that maybe you transitioned from the 7000 to the Denali?

**Mike** · December 25, 2017, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Robd2

Hi Guys, this has been a great thread. I'm looking at one of these units as my first 2018 purchase. Now that many months have past any more experiences to share with either unit?

Mike, did I see in another thread that maybe you transitioned from the 7000 to the Denali?

Not exactly. I have a full Shunyata system in the front room in the store. Shunyata Sigma cables, sigma power, sigma digital, sigma everything plus Denali 6000T.

In the middle room it's AQ power cables, Niagra 7000 and MIT speaker/IC's. I tried the MIT power cables, but they weren't as good as Shunyata Sigma NR or the new AQ hurricane.

In the back room I'm using Ansuz. At home I use Siltech on my AG's and Kimber for my Home Theater.

Thread: Niagara 7000 vs Denali 6000T - my experience

Re: Niagara 7000 vs Denali 6000T - my experience

Re: Niagara 7000 vs Denali 6000T - my experience