Pass XA.5 vs XA.8

**Mike** · June 16, 2014, 07:58 PM

Well, its been a few months since the XA.8's rolled out. What is the consensus? Is the XA.8 an evolution? A misstep? What's the honest consensus of Pass owners?

I recently compared the XA100.5 vs XA100.8 and have my own thoughts - but wanted to see what others have observed.

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**Part-Time Audiophile** · June 16, 2014, 09:02 PM

I'm getting a pair of 100.8 monos at some point, to do a comparison to the 100.5 monos I've had. No idea when, exactly, but should be this summer.

**Mike** · June 16, 2014, 09:04 PM

I look forward to your impressions Scot. I'm hoping Ian will chime in here. He did an extensive A/B.

Hey Scot - can you tell us a little about the Spatial Hologram speakers you heard? I have Clayton's new Statement speakers on order.

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**Part-Time Audiophile** · June 16, 2014, 09:11 PM

I think the Holograms are fantastic speakers for the money. They do a very neat job of removing the room. You're going to want a sub or 3, though, to get the "down-there", but that's risky -- there's a reason those Holograms do really well, and a good part of it is that they're not boxes.

**Mike** · June 16, 2014, 09:14 PM

Thanks Scot. The ones I have on order are the new Spatial Lumina Statements. They go down to 15hz by utilizing three 12 inch servo controlled open baffle woofers per speaker (crossed over at 100hz). Bass should be good.

http://www.spatialaudio.us/lumina

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**Part-Time Audiophile** · June 16, 2014, 09:16 PM

I trust Clayton. He's a friggin' wizard.

**joeinid** · June 16, 2014, 09:17 PM

See Mike? There you go, have no fear!

Originally Posted by Part-Time Audiophile

I trust Clayton. He's a friggin' wizard.

**Mike** · June 16, 2014, 09:22 PM

You're right Joe. Ever since I heard his earlier creations, I was hooked. Talking to him on the phone gives you a great deal of comfort. He's definitely no sales person. He's a brilliant designer and a heck of a nice guy.

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**Part-Time Audiophile** · June 16, 2014, 09:31 PM

I've heard the Holograms twice now, and it was with the same gear. Interestingly, the sound was not only good, but (not surprisingly, given the design) completely consistent -- surprising, because the rooms were wildly different. Anyway, I'm a fan. The little Holos were about what I'd expect from a speaker that price, but the fact that they seemed to completely circumvent the room was just nifty.

No idea about the larger ones, though.

**cmalak** · June 16, 2014, 09:55 PM

Mike...are you doing the 12Be Statement?

**cmalak** · June 16, 2014, 09:58 PM

Mike/Scot...I am assuming also given controlled directivity of the mid- and treble-drivers these things have a tight sweet spot and the sound at different locations in the room is going to be varied?

**Mike** · June 16, 2014, 10:06 PM

No Cyril. Because they are a point source - their off axis listening is quite good.

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**Mike** · June 16, 2014, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by cmalak

Mike...are you doing the 12Be Statement?

Yes. Mine will be the first production ones made.

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**cmalak** · June 16, 2014, 10:10 PM

Got it. They look very interesting Mike. Looking forward to hear your impressions of them.

**Mike** · June 16, 2014, 10:12 PM

Thanks Cyril. I'm quite excited.

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**Mike** · June 18, 2014, 07:20 AM

Bump. No xa.5 vs xa.8 thoughts?

**madfloyd** · June 18, 2014, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Bump. No xa.5 vs xa.8 thoughts?

Sorry, didn't see this thread until now.

Yes, I did an extensive A/B test with XA160.5/XA160.8 (probably about 6 weeks) and had 3 other audiophiles help me compare the two models. What I'm about to describe would not apply to the 60.5/60.8 as I was told by Pass that the 60 is different.

First of all, out of the 3 audiophiles that helped out, everyone preferred the .8. Two of them came twice to compare (first after a week of break-in, then after a few more weeks). The third person preferred the .8 in every way except for the treble.

Here's what I think the differences are:
1) The .8 has a lot more bass energy. This not only produces deeper, thicker bass but gives a more solid foundation for the midrange.
2) The .8 has much more midrange energy as a result of #1
3) The .8's have more bass control.
4) The .8's have a bit more lower treble energy. I can almost hear a bit of a hump in the frequency region where we hear room ambience. Depending on the speakers used it might come across as a bit forward.
5) The .5's seem to be very recessed in the midrange by comparison. The bass is thinner (sometimes making it appear more articulate) and the highs are more apparent - almost splashy on cymbals in contrast to the .8's which produce a more thicker upper frequency presentation.

When I was first listening to the .8's I thought there was too much bass and that the highs were rolled off. The 'third' audiophile that I mentioned above, who preferred the treble of the .5, also mentioned this. I have since adjusted speaker positioning and cabling and now I have GREAT bass with the .8's and plenty of upper frequency 'air' that I'd feel silly telling another visiting audiophile that I thought the treble was rolled off.

I think a lot of this comes down to synergy. The tonal balance of the two amps are different - otherwise it would be much simpler to compare them (e.g. it could come down to something like "they seem similar except the .8's have better bass control" and life would be simple. Because of the tonal balance change, I think YMMV. I do think the .8 is 'better' but it is indeed subjective and it may simply be just 'different'.

That's why it's so important to audition these beasts in your own home!

Hope this helps!
Ian

**joeinid** · June 18, 2014, 12:51 PM

Thank you so much Ian.

**Mike** · June 18, 2014, 12:57 PM

Thanks Ian!

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**CDLehner** · July 29, 2014, 09:37 AM

Thank goodness for Ian. I was thrilled to find this thread; as I might be making an XA-30.5 v. XA-30.8 decision soon.

For a while there...I thought I was going to have to issue an OT warning

EDIT-Hmm...after reading said post; I am left scratching my head, about this statement:

"What I'm about to describe would not apply to the 60.5/60.8 as I was told by Pass that the 60 is different."

I understand...you may not be able to draw the same conclusions, between the 160 and 60; since they are "different". But man...where does that leave me, on the 30; which has got to be "different" still...because it's not even a monoblock

**Mike** · July 29, 2014, 09:43 AM

Chris - check out this thread: AudiogoN Forums: Comparing the Pass Labs XA30.5 to the XA 30.8

A group of us compared the XA100.5 vs XA100.8 at a friends place. ARC REF5SE preamp. Sonus Faber Stradivari speakers. WW Platinum Eclipse speaker cables and IC's. Source was a Meitner MA-1.

The .5's were the unanimous winner....but the .8's definitely had some positives.

The .5's sounded fuller, with a greater sense of tonality richness....definitely more tube like if you will.

The .8's had tighter bass, but more bass, which ultimately created problems in his room. The .8's had a greater sense of speed and dynamic punch. I personally felt like they sounded more like a traditional Class A/B amp....but with some nice goodies thrown in.

It definitely was closer than you would think. But, at the end of the day, with his associated gear and room, we felt the .5's edged out the .8's.

**CDLehner** · July 29, 2014, 09:48 AM

Ask...and ye shall receive! Man, I like this forum.

**Mike** · July 29, 2014, 09:59 AM

I'm not sure what actual Harbeth owners think, but based on my listening to Harbeth's, I would tend to lean toward the ARC REF75. You could take things up another notch by rolling the tubes in the REF75. And let's face it, that REF75 is a real looker.

Chris - do check out the Cary CAD 805AE's (you can buy them new on Audiogon for $6500/pair ish). Might be a good match for Harbeth 30.1's?? Don't know. But if you go Pass with Harbeth 30.1's, I would be inclined to think the 30.8 would do better....but could be wrong. Get both and try??

**joeinid** · July 29, 2014, 10:59 AM

Thank you for taking an active role. I appreciate all your input.

Originally Posted by CDLehner

Ask...and ye shall receive! Man, I like this forum.

**CDLehner** · July 29, 2014, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

I'm not sure what actual Harbeth owners think, but based on my listening to Harbeth's, I would tend to lean toward the ARC REF75. You could take things up another notch by rolling the tubes in the REF75. And let's face it, that REF75 is a real looker.

Chris - do check out the Cary CAD 805AE's (you can buy them new on Audiogon for $6500/pair ish). Might be a good match for Harbeth 30.1's?? Don't know. But if you go Pass with Harbeth 30.1's, I would be inclined to think the 30.8 would do better....but could be wrong. Get both and try??

Man Mike; are you doing a good job...spending my dough, lol. Let's review: a Ref 75, Cary 805s, Pass XA-30.5 and .8.

Unfortunately, only the Pass...are realistically in my budget.

I'm giving myself a pretty hard ceiling, of $5k; and does it go without saying, more like $3500-4k would be even better...lol.

I'd s t r e t c h, as hard as I could...to land my #1 choice; the Ref 75. But it looks like, not even Gumby can pull that off.

30.8 would be at the top of, and 30.5 more comfortably...in my range; so I'm wringing my hands.

BTW Mike...that 219 in your avatar; is kick a$$!

**joeinid** · July 29, 2014, 01:26 PM

Chris,

I'm thinking about the Ref 75 for myself too.

Have you heard the Ref 75?

**Mike** · July 29, 2014, 01:26 PM

Thanks Chris. It sure is!

**CDLehner** · July 29, 2014, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Chris,

I'm thinking about the Ref 75 for myself too.

Have you heard the Ref 75?

Joe...I haven't had the pleasure yet. I don't live in an area, with a lot of hi-end dealers...lol.

As such...I've become the king, of the in-home audition (aka buying used on Audiogon, et al). For that kind of dough, I'd need to take a trek to Wilmington (DE), or the District.

**joeinid** · July 29, 2014, 02:13 PM

Understood. I just fear it's "too neutral" for my taste.

Originally Posted by CDLehner

Joe...I haven't had the pleasure yet. I don't live in an area, with a lot of hi-end dealers...lol.

As such...I've become the king, of the in-home audition (aka buying used on Audiogon, et al). For that kind of dough, I'd need to take a trek to Wilmington (DE), or the District.

**lag** · July 29, 2014, 03:21 PM

To Mike´s comment :

A group of us compared the XA100.5 vs XA100.8 at a friends place. ARC REF5SE preamp. Sonus Faber Stradivari speakers. WW Platinum Eclipse speaker cables and IC's. Source was a Meitner MA-1.

The .5's were the unanimous winner....but the .8's definitely had some positives.

The .5's sounded fuller, with a greater sense of tonality richness....definitely more tube like if you will.

The .8's had tighter bass, but more bass, which ultimately created problems in his room. The .8's had a greater sense of speed and dynamic punch. I personally felt like they sounded more like a traditional Class A/B amp....but with some nice goodies thrown in.

It definitely was closer than you would think. But, at the end of the day, with his associated gear and room, we felt the .5's edged out the .8's.

I can add:

I agree the 100.5 is more tubelike .

My listening impressions got some differences from yours .

After listening exhaustively the xa100.8 + XP20 + ATC scm100 speakers.

My first impressions are that the xa100.8 are among the very best amps I had at my demo room before. The

strenghts are :

-Sweet and very extended highs , got that result with SET ( tube ) amps only . Maybe the Reimyo KAP is a contender there .

-Holografic , very good layering.

-Soundstage , very good .

-Articulated and present bass.

Against the xa100.5 that I tested last month, I prefer the xa100.8 in all areas but the bass impact. The 100.5 were far more powerful in the lowest octave. Maybe

the .8´s need more break in .
After more than one month of listening the bass impression is the same.

**CDLehner** · July 29, 2014, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by lag

To Mike´s comment :

A group of us compared the XA100.5 vs XA100.8 at a friends place. ARC REF5SE preamp. Sonus Faber Stradivari speakers. WW Platinum Eclipse speaker cables and IC's. Source was a Meitner MA-1.

The .5's were the unanimous winner....but the .8's definitely had some positives.

The .5's sounded fuller, with a greater sense of tonality richness....definitely more tube like if you will.

The .8's had tighter bass, but more bass, which ultimately created problems in his room. The .8's had a greater sense of speed and dynamic punch. I personally felt like they sounded more like a traditional Class A/B amp....but with some nice goodies thrown in.

It definitely was closer than you would think. But, at the end of the day, with his associated gear and room, we felt the .5's edged out the .8's.

I can add:

I agree the 100.5 is more tubelike .

My listening impressions got some differences from yours .

After listening exhaustively the xa100.8 + XP20 + ATC scm100 speakers.

My first impressions are that the xa100.8 are among the very best amps I had at my demo room before. The

strenghts are :

-Sweet and very extended highs , got that result with SET ( tube ) amps only . Maybe the Reimyo KAP is a contender there .

-Holografic , very good layering.

-Soundstage , very good .

-Articulated and present bass.

Against the xa100.5 that I tested last month, I prefer the xa100.8 in all areas but the bass impact. The 100.5 were far more powerful in the lowest octave. Maybe

the .8´s need more break in .
After more than one month of listening the bass impression is the same.

Thank you Lag; but another such shoot-out I read...said the .5 excelled in all areas, EXCEPT bass control.

Damn audiophiles!

**lag** · July 29, 2014, 03:45 PM

The 100.5 were more powerful on bass area in my room with the ATc scm 100 speakers. But that no means them gives better control. The 100.8 were more articulated and thanks that it gets lower . Impact and control are not the same ....

**madfloyd** · July 29, 2014, 05:33 PM

Funny how we all end up with vastly different conclusions. I don't think it's the listeners (since the conclusions seem to be from a group of folks in each case), it must be combination of the environment and setup.

**Myles B. Astor** · July 29, 2014, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by madfloyd

Funny how we all end up with vastly different conclusions. I don't think it's the listeners (since the conclusions seem to be from a group of folks in each case), it must be combination of the environment and setup.

I think a lot depends upon the source.

**Mike** · July 29, 2014, 06:54 PM

So says the man with the best sources I know!

**lag** · July 29, 2014, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

I think a lot depends upon the source.

Yes , both of you are right. There are other factors that can modify the result. The test I did was in the same room and same electronics+ cables. The source was the Red Reference III player /DAC from Chord Electronics.
I passed my impressions to people at Pass Labs and them agree with them .

**lag** · July 29, 2014, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by madfloyd

Funny how we all end up with vastly different conclusions. I don't think it's the listeners (since the conclusions seem to be from a group of folks in each case), it must be combination of the environment and setup.

Just read your comparison on the 160.5 v/s .8.
I think your impressions are very close to mines 100.5 v/s 100.8 . The .8 has more control .
What is exactly I feel is about your :
" 5) The .5's seem to be very recessed in the midrange by comparison. "
Yes , the .5 is not only recessed but more laid back compared to the .8 . The .8 is not the "on your face" side but is more forwarded in comparison , giving a better layering and spatial resolution than the .5 . If you take for instance my permanent demo Chord electronics spm 1400´s ,both Pass sounds laid back in that area.

I can live with either amp any day of the year , please don´t misunderstand me . Great amps no doubt.

**Myles B. Astor** · July 29, 2014, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by lag

Yes , both of you are right. There are other factors that can modify the result. The test I did was in the same room and same electronics+ cables. The source was the Red Reference III player /DAC from Chord Electronics.
I passed my impressions to people at Pass Labs and them agree with them .

Yes of course the other thing is that a given amplifier usually sounds the best with its companion preamplifier (and vice versa).

**CDLehner** · July 29, 2014, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by madfloyd

Funny how we all end up with vastly different conclusions.

Not really funny "ha-ha"; more like, funny...we're all nutz!

**lag** · July 29, 2014, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

Yes of course the other thing is that a given amplifier usually sounds the best with its companion preamplifier (and vice versa).

Of course , I did it with Pass XP 20 and Madfloyd with the xp.30 .

BTW , nice source ad system you have !!

**Myles B. Astor** · July 29, 2014, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by lag

Of course , I did it with Pass XP 20 and Madfloyd with the xp.30 .

BTW , nice source ad system you have !!

Thanks!

**Mark Jones** · July 29, 2014, 11:16 PM

I can't comment as I have not heard the .8's but man do I ever prefer the look of the .5 amps. Maybe a year down the road I will prefer the .8, that has happened before.

A good example of something taking a while to appreciate it's beauty, the Ducati 999/749 series of bikes. way off topic, but there you go, it was for my bike loving friends.

**Alpinist** · September 17, 2014, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Jones

I can't comment as I have not heard the .8's but man do I ever prefer the look of the .5 amps. Maybe a year down the road I will prefer the .8, that has happened before.

A good example of something taking a while to appreciate it's beauty, the Ducati 999/749 series of bikes. way off topic, but there you go, it was for my bike loving friends.

Hi Mark,

I originally owned the XA-100.5 for one year and really liked the more stylish design compared to the XA-100.8. But now that I've had the XA-100.8 for a few months, I've gotten used to its clean understated look and I actually now prefer it.

Ken

**madfloyd** · September 17, 2014, 09:43 PM

Same here.

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**Mark Jones** · September 17, 2014, 10:08 PM

Me too, didn't take long, and I don't even have one staring at me every day.

**Alpinist** · September 23, 2014, 08:13 PM

Hi Madfloyd,

I've been listening to my Pass XA-100.8's a lot lately and I am continuously blown away by how great these amps are. The transparency, the ease, the holographic soundstage, the bottom end and lack of any noise is just stunning. Another huge plus is the warm-up time. Their performance peaks so fast. I am so glad that I bit the bullet and went for it.

Best,
Ken

**joeinid** · September 23, 2014, 08:33 PM

Congratulations on the Pass XA100.8's Ken. I love my XA60.5's and would love the hear the .8's someday.

**Alpinist** · September 23, 2014, 09:17 PM

Thanks Joe! The XA-60.5's are marvelous amps and John Atkinson's favorite. I had a wonderful year with my XA-100.5's. I've been told that the XA-60.8's presentation is a very similar to the XA-100.8's but with less bass. Which could be a good thing in some circumstances!

Best,
Ken

**BlueFox** · September 23, 2014, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Jones

I can't comment as I have not heard the .8's but man do I ever prefer the look of the .5 amps.

The nice part about the .5 amps is you can slide a piece of cardboard into the facade in front of the meter to block the light. After I installed my X600.5 amps I felt like I was seeing two headlights coming at me the first night I had them. Then it occured to me to cut out a piece of cardboard, and problem solved. Now it is just good music in the dark, not a head-on collision.

**Alpinist** · September 23, 2014, 09:34 PM

Hi Bud,

I actually used your suggestion when I had my XA-100.5's. It worked very well. Can't do that with the 100.8's but there is supposedly a way to turn them off but I haven't a clue how.

Ken

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