asindc
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Great stuff, Nikhil! I don’t read or write music, but still found the video very entertaining and informative. Well worth the time.
Styles of Jazz Music
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Great stuff, Nikhil! I don’t read or write music, but still found the video very entertaining and informative. Well worth the time.
I agree but would still say one of the most
and it is a very nice list. I only miss my personal favorite Crescent
Kuoppis
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Thanks for sharing, Nikhil. I play a bit of Jazz guitar, but my grasp of harmonies and music theory is rather limited. Yet, I also liked her story.
What I found fascinating, was how someone who has probably studied the better part of two decades classical piano, found herself so unprepared for bebop styles and harmonics. While getting the gist of syncopy, rhythm, and harmonics, I think the reason why she was struggling is that she approached jazz with the same school book rigor and attitude, as when following a classical piece to the note. Get a score, follow the score, use this mechanism, apply that structure. Therefore the end-result sounded like classical music, the flow was Chopin with odd harmonics, and it neither made sense from a classical nor jazz perspective. It was not modern either like Bartók or something.
Her effort was very headstrong, trying to reason everything. And hence she a bit neglected rhythm, harmonic flow, and feeling the music, which make jazz so interesting. Even though there’s a significant amount of understanding of music theory required to play good jazz, that’s not everything and you can’t just rationally deduct it as she tried. I felt the effort yielded something that sounded similar to what a chauffeur might look like on the race track [emoji3].
But it was very interesting and entertaining to watch, especially as she was very nice and humble, and kind of probably feeling she’s not deserving the cigar yet. And I could of course myself not do a fraction of any of it.
If you like her effort and the idea to blend jazz and classical music, listen to this Chick Corea album. Chick starts with classical pieces and the jazzes them up really masterfully.
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JoeESP9
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IME the reason for this is timing; ie: The ability to swing with ones playing. Classical musicians are taught not to and jazz musicians always do.
Frank Sinatra's timing of words and phrases is IMO the same thing as swinging with an instrument.
From Wikipedia:
The term swing, as well as swung note(s) and swung rhythm, is also used more specifically to refer to a technique (most commonly associated with jazz but also used in other genres) that involves alternately lengthening and shortening the first and second consecutive notes in the two part pulse-divisions in a beat.
NorthStar
New member
Big fan of her jazz singing style ...
You've got point there. I had thought about it like that.
In addition to “swinging“, a very crucial part of jazz is improvisation. Classical musicians are not taught to improvise. They are trained to play what is shown on sheet music.
Thanks for the great video. It was very good to see how bebop takes the standard chord sequences and extends them beyond what the normal classical music progressions are. Part of my problem listening to much of jazz (Coltrane, Davis for example) is that I grew up having classical music played in my home on the piano and through the hi-fi. The tonalities, particularly, and the rhythms and structures, became imbedded in my musical language, like a child learns a language. And this was classical music from the baroque through the early 20th century, not the later post modern music that was being composed after WWII (when I was growing up). Also no Second Viennese School 12 tone music. Pop music was pretty easy, since the melodies and harmonies, etc. were almost all quite simple, and quite consonant, with straight forward chord progressions and rhythmic structures. Easy to sing.
My introduction to Jazz was probably Brubeck and his Time Out album, which became a best seller when I was in high school. There was also swing, from Glenn Miller, which was a favorite of my parents. However, no Davis, Coltrane or Armstrong, Monk, Parker.
For people who grew up to jazz, bebob, hard bop and the other genres, I think the tonalities and improvisational structures and rhythms and complex syncopations, became imbedded in them, making it part of their musical language. I remember reading that Beethoven was revolutionary as a composer during his time, and his most popular symphony during his life was his first symphony, which sounds most like Haydn and Mozart, the composers which were most familiar and popular with the audiences of that time. His most popular piece was his Septet, written in 1799, only a four years after Mozart's early death and while Haydn was still at his peak. Beethoven was only 29 when he wrote the piece and would have the great majority of his compositional career ahead of him.
At this point, my exploration of jazz, which really began at the age of 71, five years ago, still tends to favor artists like the Modern Jazz Quartet, Cannonball Adderley, Bill Evans, Brubeck and Paul Desmond, and Ella Fitzgerald including her albums with Louis Armstrong. I have much more difficultly with Miles Davis, John Coltrane, and Thelonious Monk. I don't have albums by Charlie Parker.
Larry
My introduction to Jazz was probably Brubeck and his Time Out album, which became a best seller when I was in high school. There was also swing, from Glenn Miller, which was a favorite of my parents. However, no Davis, Coltrane or Armstrong, Monk, Parker.
For people who grew up to jazz, bebob, hard bop and the other genres, I think the tonalities and improvisational structures and rhythms and complex syncopations, became imbedded in them, making it part of their musical language. I remember reading that Beethoven was revolutionary as a composer during his time, and his most popular symphony during his life was his first symphony, which sounds most like Haydn and Mozart, the composers which were most familiar and popular with the audiences of that time. His most popular piece was his Septet, written in 1799, only a four years after Mozart's early death and while Haydn was still at his peak. Beethoven was only 29 when he wrote the piece and would have the great majority of his compositional career ahead of him.
At this point, my exploration of jazz, which really began at the age of 71, five years ago, still tends to favor artists like the Modern Jazz Quartet, Cannonball Adderley, Bill Evans, Brubeck and Paul Desmond, and Ella Fitzgerald including her albums with Louis Armstrong. I have much more difficultly with Miles Davis, John Coltrane, and Thelonious Monk. I don't have albums by Charlie Parker.
Larry
Kuoppis
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Very nice write-up Larry, I like it. I think the connection can go even deeper, into how we hear or are used to hear.
Our hearing is conditioned during our upbringing based on the sounds and languages we hear. The French language for example, is a phonetically limited language. That means the tonal range typically used when speaking, is slightly limited compared to a number of other languages. That’s the reason why French native speakers often struggle with vocalizing other languages, because they’re used to hear and communicate in a different tonal range. As a result their hearing is not conditioned to deal with the wider range of other languages, and their hearing not used to dealing with it. However, in turn their hearing is usually better in the range of the French language. As it happens, that range is similar to the Oboe’s tonal range. Due to this coincidental match, an above average share of the world’s best Oboe players are French native speakers.
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Our hearing is conditioned during our upbringing based on the sounds and languages we hear. The French language for example, is a phonetically limited language. That means the tonal range typically used when speaking, is slightly limited compared to a number of other languages. That’s the reason why French native speakers often struggle with vocalizing other languages, because they’re used to hear and communicate in a different tonal range. As a result their hearing is not conditioned to deal with the wider range of other languages, and their hearing not used to dealing with it. However, in turn their hearing is usually better in the range of the French language. As it happens, that range is similar to the Oboe’s tonal range. Due to this coincidental match, an above average share of the world’s best Oboe players are French native speakers.
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Thanks. The comments on the French language and oboes is very interesting. I know the nasality of the French language also makes it a difficult language for an adult to learn as a second language, and also makes it very easy for a French speaking native to immediately know that a person is not French. I have heard that violins made in France have a special tone quality also.
Larry
Larry
NorthStar
New member
The jazz we came from and the jazz we're going to next is like a sunset.
And that sunset could be from the 20s, the 30s, the 40s, ... and all the way up to 2021 and beyond.
Between hundred years what we discover in jazz made our style in jazz.
My jazz instruments are the piano, the sax, the trumpet, the trombone, the clarinet, the acoustic bass, the drums, the jazz guitar, the jazz vocals.
I am not defined in jazz; I like Tango jazz, Opera jazz, Classic jazz, Progressive jazz, Velvet jazz, Improvised jazz, Super Smooth jazz, Spanish Jazz, Cuban jazz, African jazz, and Coltrane jazz.
And that sunset could be from the 20s, the 30s, the 40s, ... and all the way up to 2021 and beyond.
Between hundred years what we discover in jazz made our style in jazz.
My jazz instruments are the piano, the sax, the trumpet, the trombone, the clarinet, the acoustic bass, the drums, the jazz guitar, the jazz vocals.
I am not defined in jazz; I like Tango jazz, Opera jazz, Classic jazz, Progressive jazz, Velvet jazz, Improvised jazz, Super Smooth jazz, Spanish Jazz, Cuban jazz, African jazz, and Coltrane jazz.
NorthStar
New member
In the now ...
And it's hot, very hot here today...over 40° C.
Need some special jazz to cool off.
And it's hot, very hot here today...over 40° C.
Need some special jazz to cool off.
JoeESP9
New member
I'm wondering how many know that the word Jazz actually came from a Black term "jass". As in don't jass up the music. It was first used when referring to church and Gospel music. At that time it was not a complimentary term.
I've been listening to some old Charlie Christian work. What he did with Benny Goodman set the bar for every jazz guitarist that's come after him.
I've been listening to some old Charlie Christian work. What he did with Benny Goodman set the bar for every jazz guitarist that's come after him.
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CPP
Active member
Same here as was JDandy (R.I.P) . When I visited Dan, at times we would just get out his guitars and play along. I miss that guy.