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  1. #1
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    Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Did you change from GG to Premier? If so, what drove this presumable upgrade for you? Was it the sound quality, convenience (i.e. no tubes, renderer input simplicity) or a combination of both? How are they different in sound quality?

    I was considering upgrading to the GG2, but the comments from many recent MSB converts has me pausing before making a decision. Would any of you with knowledge of both lend your insights? Thanks!

    Background: I upgraded from a Luxman DA6 to the GG a few years ago. It was the most significant upgrade in my 30 some years in this hobby. I’m using the Taktsuki 274B rectifier and KR 300B Balloon tubes. Prior to the Luxman I had an LIO-8 pro audio DAC, Berkeley original, and an Esoteric UX3 upgraded by Steve Huntley, among many others.

    Audiopath starts with Roon and HQPlayer on my office PC, upsampling everything to DSD256, then sending to a CAPsv3 silent computer (NAA) powered by an Uptone Linear PS in my 23’x28’x10’ dedicated room. From there it goes to my GG via Lightspeed USB, then to ARC Ref5SE, then to ARC 75SE, then to Zu Definition Mk4.
    Last edited by Germanboxers; February 26, 2019 at 11:05 PM. Reason: typo
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Amplifier: Audio Research Reference 75 SE
    Speakers: Zu Definitions Mk4
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  2. #2
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    I can't comment on your question as I did not hear both at the same time but as I have almost the same electronics as you do (Ref75, Ref6) I can definitely comment on the upgrade path which you had in your mind initially (GG1 to GG2 or even Pacific). I've made this move few months ago from GG1 to the latest iteration of GG2 and for my ears the increase in SQ is just amazing in all possible ways you can imagine. Tube set you have is great, but just adding KR242 or KR242RK or PX25 (just any of those) would make a very significant (positive) change in sound delivery vs 300b. As a last step, other USB cable can make a very noticeable difference (directly compared to Lightspeed which you have). All in all, as said, not really answering your question but rather giving perspective on your initial idea.

    Cheers;
    G
    LS: Vienna Acoustics Imperial Liszt
    PowerAmp: ARC REF 75 (KT150)
    PreAmp: ARC REF 6
    Source: Lampizator Pacific SE
    Streamer: LDMS Music Server
    CD player/Transport: Audio Analogue Maestro
    Power: IsoTek Sigmas EVO3
    Cabling: Shunyata (various), FTA (Final Touch Audio) - Ganymede RCA & XLR, Callisto USB, LS
    Rack: Finite Elemente Spider

  3. #3

    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Dear Porsche Fan

    I totally concur with Golum about the upgrade from GG to GG2.
    It is a very worthwile and yet rather affordable upgrade.
    This GG2 upgrade brings you tonally closer to the Pacific DAC. The GG2 is closer to the Pacific DAC than it is to the GG1.

    I also would strongly encourage you to try and buy the new Riccardo Kron KR 242 Output tubes.
    Your Taka 274b recti is already excellent

    In addition to that, you might also consider the Final Touch Audio Callisto USB cable. I
    t is massively better sounding than my trusty Light Harmonic Lightspeed 10G (while the LH 10G was better than the rest I tried before, obviously because I bought the LH 10G).
    My LH showed all other cables out the door, until I got the opportunity to try the FTA Callisto, which is a big step above the LH10G sonically.

    I hope those informations are of use for you

  4. #4
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Thank you, Golum and Christophs. I appreciate your input on the GG2 and Callisto USB cable. I have no doubts that there is optimization available through either the GG2 and/or a different USB cable; however, I am most interested in the MSB Premier relative to the GG or GG2.

    There is a great deal of buzz around the new offerings from MSB (same was/is true with the Lampizator products for good reason) and I want to explore the relative differences. The simplicity of operation is another element that makes the MSB appealing assuming, of course, that the MSB is equivalent to the GG2 in terms of "real musicians in space", fully fleshed out tonality, detail, and dynamics. My highest goal: a convincing illusion of being in the original space with real musicians. When that fails due to recording limitations...a reasonable illusion of musicians in my listening room. Rich tonality, "dense" images all serve those goals to some degree if the software is compliant.

    P.S. Christoph, although I am a Porsche fan, my user name refers to my appreciation for german boxer dogs, particularly those of working bloodlines.
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Amplifier: Audio Research Reference 75 SE
    Speakers: Zu Definitions Mk4
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  5. #5

    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Hi GB

    Sorry for the misinterpretation of your moniker.

    I hope Alrainbow can chime in, because he is very knowlegdable about Lampis anyways but also about msb as he owned the top of the heap msb DAC for several years himself and heard the Select 1 and 2 on several occasions.

    PS: I would say you haven't heard your present GG the best it can Sound with those 300b tubes you use

  6. #6
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    @Alrainbow, are you (or others) able to weigh in on my questions above?

    Thanks,

    Jordan
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Amplifier: Audio Research Reference 75 SE
    Speakers: Zu Definitions Mk4
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  7. #7
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Hello yes I can give you my views.
    Can you pm me and we can talk or email.
    I don't sell products or have affiliations either.
    But i have owned both dacs and others
    TUBEZATOR

    preamp ML26
    amps ML No.33
    Bespoke Windows Server 2016 server with AO
    Infinity IRS-V speakers with Xover redone by Arie Nudell.
    Dac lampi Pac and GG2.



  8. #8
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    I
    Quote Originally Posted by Germanboxers View Post
    Thank you, Golum and Christophs. I appreciate your input on the GG2 and Callisto USB cable. I have no doubts that there is optimization available through either the GG2 and/or a different USB cable; however, I am most interested in the MSB Premier relative to the GG or GG2.

    There is a great deal of buzz around the new offerings from MSB (same was/is true with the Lampizator products for good reason) and I want to explore the relative differences. The simplicity of operation is another element that makes the MSB appealing assuming, of course, that the MSB is equivalent to the GG2 in terms of "real musicians in space", fully fleshed out tonality, detail, and dynamics. My highest goal: a convincing illusion of being in the original space with real musicians. When that fails due to recording limitations...a reasonable illusion of musicians in my listening room. Rich tonality, "dense" images all serve those goals to some degree if the software is compliant.

    P.S. Christoph, although I am a Porsche fan, my user name refers to my appreciation for german boxer dogs, particularly those of working bloodlines.
    Intesrd dogs at one point in my life
    we still have one left. A MANCHESTER terrier female. We were going to get a German pincher too.
    TUBEZATOR

    preamp ML26
    amps ML No.33
    Bespoke Windows Server 2016 server with AO
    Infinity IRS-V speakers with Xover redone by Arie Nudell.
    Dac lampi Pac and GG2.



  9. #9
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    I have in my place a new GG 2 to do a small review on for the forums.
    Lets email
    TUBEZATOR

    preamp ML26
    amps ML No.33
    Bespoke Windows Server 2016 server with AO
    Infinity IRS-V speakers with Xover redone by Arie Nudell.
    Dac lampi Pac and GG2.



  10. #10

    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrainbow View Post
    Hello yes I can give you my views.
    Can you pm me and we can talk or email.
    I don't sell products or have affiliations either.
    But i have owned both dacs and others

    Alrainbow, I'm sure many on the forum would be interested in your opinions, rather than restricting to a pm?
    Source: Taiko Audio Server, Cisco 2960 Switch, Gigafoil, Lampizator Pacific Dac. Amp: Bakoon 13r Speakers: AvantGarde Duo Mezzo XD, Cables: Alan Maher Designs Power, Duelund Speaker, Shunyata Sigma IC's Audioquest Diamond ethernet. Room Treatment Vicoustic.

  11. #11

    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willco View Post
    Alrainbow, I'm sure many on the forum would be interested in your opinions, rather than restricting to a pm?
    +1
    Anthony
    Analog: VPI CLASSIC 3/Ortofon A95> ASR Basis Exclusive HV---->

    Digital: Mac Mini (for now)> CARY DMS-600 DAC/Streamer---->
    ...........Cary 306 SACD PRO Disc Player---->

    ===> Cary SLP-05 (Ultimate Upgrade edition)----> Clayton M-300----> MARTIN LOGAN SPIRES

    [Synergistic Research/Furutech/Blue Circle/SRA/Adona/ Stillpoints/Track Audio/GIK Acoustics]

  12. #12
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Of course I'll share to all. But first I want a Simple conversation with out being a back and forth of others as these forums can be.
    Im always honest if you read my posts here and else where.

  13. #13
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Well...Mike was kind enough to ship me his demo MSB Premier DAC so that I could actually compare it directly to my Lampizator Golden Gate. After a couple of hours of warm up on the first day I received it, I sat down for a listen. I was impressed by how tonally "dense" it was, especially being solid state, but after a few hours I felt some fatigue...usually a bad sign. I left it on for the next few days and popped down to my listening room for a few songs once in awhile just to get a fix during the busy week.

    Saturday morning came and I was up early, espresso in hand, and in for some deep comparative listening. I prefer not to jump back and forth when I compare equipment since I tend to lose the "gestalt" of the sound of each, but I did have a good setup for that if/when I decided to do so. I have a capsv3 computer fed by a Uptone Audio LPS as NAA feeding the GG with the output of the DAC going to my ARC Ref5SE. Since I have multiple ethernet feeds, changing from the MSB to the GG was as simple as changing zones in Roon and changing the input on the preamp via remote.

    A few hours of listening just to the MSB Premier confirmed that the extra time powered on eliminated the fatigue I felt shortly after receiving it. I could sink in and enjoy a wide range of music. My high level conclusion was that these two fight in the same weight class. Both allow me to "turn off" and enjoy the music.

    After lunch I decided to do some head to head comparisons. After doing so, I do think the Premier is technically superior. It has better balance top to bottom for one, it reveals more low-level details like hall ambiance, it's a little "faster" in that it seems notes are more aligned, giving transients a bit more focus and snap. BUT, I don't really make decisions of this nature and magnitude on a balance sheet of technical merits. I have to "feel it" if that makes sense. And through Sat afternoon, I didn't "feel it". I vacillated between "just stick with what you have, you love it" and "this Premier is very good too, I could easily live with it (and love it) and it gets that computer out of the room".

    After dinner with the wife Saturday night, I went back in for some more listening, but decided to try the MSB Premier direct to my ARC Ref75SE amp. I was very surprised that the sound quality did not take a step backward. In fact, it was hard to say the sound changed much at all. This has not been the case when I tried going direct with the Golden Gate in the past. So, I listened, and vacillated some more. By late evening I was leaning toward the Premier.

    I woke up Sunday morning, listened some more, then fired off an e-mail to Mike and yada yada yada I'm sending back the Premier and buying an MSB Reference with Femto 77, render v2 and the preamp module!!! Yikes!! I felt it...and I decided to leave no question about my front end by buying the Reference. Strange how this hobby works, but I'm very excited to be able to simplify, having only two pieces of electronics in the room, not counting the the bluray and cable boxes. My wife will be able to use the room for music or movies whereas now she won't even try to use it given the complexity. And I will have my entire collection of music to rediscover!!!

    MSB and Lampizator are truly State of the Art audio manufacturers. Adding the Golden Gate dac to my system 3 years ago was the single biggest/most important upgrade I had experienced in 30 years in this hobby. I'm excited about where the MSB Reference will bring me in my music enjoyment.

    Thanks,

    Jordan
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Amplifier: Audio Research Reference 75 SE
    Speakers: Zu Definitions Mk4
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  14. #14

    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanboxers View Post
    Well...Mike was kind enough to ship me his demo MSB Premier DAC so that I could actually compare it directly to my Lampizator Golden Gate. After a couple of hours of warm up on the first day I received it, I sat down for a listen. I was impressed by how tonally "dense" it was, especially being solid state, but after a few hours I felt some fatigue...usually a bad sign. I left it on for the next few days and popped down to my listening room for a few songs once in awhile just to get a fix during the busy week.

    Saturday morning came and I was up early, espresso in hand, and in for some deep comparative listening. I prefer not to jump back and forth when I compare equipment since I tend to lose the "gestalt" of the sound of each, but I did have a good setup for that if/when I decided to do so. I have a capsv3 computer fed by a Uptone Audio LPS as NAA feeding the GG with the output of the DAC going to my ARC Ref5SE. Since I have multiple ethernet feeds, changing from the MSB to the GG was as simple as changing zones in Roon and changing the input on the preamp via remote.

    A few hours of listening just to the MSB Premier confirmed that the extra time powered on eliminated the fatigue I felt shortly after receiving it. I could sink in and enjoy a wide range of music. My high level conclusion was that these two fight in the same weight class. Both allow me to "turn off" and enjoy the music.

    After lunch I decided to do some head to head comparisons. After doing so, I do think the Premier is technically superior. It has better balance top to bottom for one, it reveals more low-level details like hall ambiance, it's a little "faster" in that it seems notes are more aligned, giving transients a bit more focus and snap. BUT, I don't really make decisions of this nature and magnitude on a balance sheet of technical merits. I have to "feel it" if that makes sense. And through Sat afternoon, I didn't "feel it". I vacillated between "just stick with what you have, you love it" and "this Premier is very good too, I could easily live with it (and love it) and it gets that computer out of the room".

    After dinner with the wife Saturday night, I went back in for some more listening, but decided to try the MSB Premier direct to my ARC Ref75SE amp. I was very surprised that the sound quality did not take a step backward. In fact, it was hard to say the sound changed much at all. This has not been the case when I tried going direct with the Golden Gate in the past. So, I listened, and vacillated some more. By late evening I was leaning toward the Premier.

    I woke up Sunday morning, listened some more, then fired off an e-mail to Mike and yada yada yada I'm sending back the Premier and buying an MSB Reference with Femto 77, render v2 and the preamp module!!! Yikes!! I felt it...and I decided to leave no question about my front end by buying the Reference. Strange how this hobby works, but I'm very excited to be able to simplify, having only two pieces of electronics in the room, not counting the the bluray and cable boxes. My wife will be able to use the room for music or movies whereas now she won't even try to use it given the complexity. And I will have my entire collection of music to rediscover!!!

    MSB and Lampizator are truly State of the Art audio manufacturers. Adding the Golden Gate dac to my system 3 years ago was the single biggest/most important upgrade I had experienced in 30 years in this hobby. I'm excited about where the MSB Reference will bring me in my music enjoyment.
    Hi Jordan

    Congrats on the new aquisition
    May I ask what tubes you used in the GG?

  15. #15
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christophs View Post
    Hi Jordan

    Congrats on the new aquisition
    May I ask what tubes you used in the GG?
    Sure, Christophs.

    I was not a serial tube roller, but I did experiment with quite a few before settling in on a combo that worked well in my system and to my ears. Just based on memory I have experimented with the following output tubes:
    Elrog Original 300B - very nice, but unreliable!
    Sophia Princess 300B - nice midrange, but soft on top and bottom.
    Emission Labs 45 - balanced, but uninspiring if memory serves.
    KR 300B Balloons - settled with these after acquiring the Takatsuki 274B rectifier
    PSvane Western Electric replica 101D - detailed, but not my cup of tea otherwise.
    PSvane ceramic base 101D - similar to WE101D above.
    Takatsuki 274B - the best rectifier for me considering all qualities combined.
    Philips 5Z4GY - cannot remember much about it, but I did like it over the more conventional 5UG/5R4 Shuguangs.
    GEC U52/5U4G - a more vintage sound if my memory holds...liked it, but the Tak 274B gave more goodness overall and from top to bottom.
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Amplifier: Audio Research Reference 75 SE
    Speakers: Zu Definitions Mk4
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  16. #16
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    2 years ago I had the GG 1.5, then listened to the Nagra HD and the first Aqua Formula, and overall preferred the Formula in my system. but in the back of my mind I was trying to reach the MSB Select II level for less money. later I did go from the Formula to the MSB Select II.

    I can certainly relate to Jordan's experience and congratulate him on his choice of the Reference with the 33 Femto. the MSB is a dac that 'gets' the musical wholeness of the GG......along with lots more too. I loved the GG and GG1.5 in my system but my MSB is less in the way of the musical message......and compliments my particular system better.

  17. #17

    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanboxers View Post
    Sure, Christophs.

    I was not a serial tube roller, but I did experiment with quite a few before settling in on a combo that worked well in my system and to my ears. Just based on memory I have experimented with the following output tubes:
    Elrog Original 300B - very nice, but unreliable!
    Sophia Princess 300B - nice midrange, but soft on top and bottom.
    Emission Labs 45 - balanced, but uninspiring if memory serves.
    KR 300B Balloons - settled with these after acquiring the Takatsuki 274B rectifier
    PSvane Western Electric replica 101D - detailed, but not my cup of tea otherwise.
    PSvane ceramic base 101D - similar to WE101D above.
    Takatsuki 274B - the best rectifier for me considering all qualities combined.
    Philips 5Z4GY - cannot remember much about it, but I did like it over the more conventional 5UG/5R4 Shuguangs.
    GEC U52/5U4G - a more vintage sound if my memory holds...liked it, but the Tak 274B gave more goodness overall and from top to bottom.
    Thank you Jordan
    I wonder how it would have gone if you had a pair of RK series KR 242 or KR PX25 on hand for the compare.
    I'm really not a fan of 300b tubes in the GG

  18. #18
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christophs View Post
    Thank you Jordan
    I wonder how it would have gone if you had a pair of RK series KR 242 or KR PX25 on hand for the compare.
    I'm really not a fan of 300b tubes in the GG
    Given that I have high sensitivity speakers (Zu 101db/w) I didn't feel any lack of drive with 300B's if that is what you are concerned about, Christophs? I have also tried the KR PX4 that I did not mention and it did have more drive, but that was not/is not an issue to resolve in my system with my preferences. The 300B Balloons could boogy aplenty in my system.

    Mike - you said succinctly what took me several paragraphs. Thanks for adding to this thread. I did follow your progression on here and WBF as you progressed through your digital front end. Given that you ended up with the Select II, I felt our paths were forever on different trajectories...yet ultimately I was wrong about that...at least in some degree. Damn Mike for being so kind to send me his Premier to audition!!!! LOL
    Last edited by Germanboxers; March 19, 2019 at 06:22 PM. Reason: correction
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Amplifier: Audio Research Reference 75 SE
    Speakers: Zu Definitions Mk4
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  19. #19
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    so when does the bad boy Ref dac land? So excited for you, Jordan!
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ 47 Labs MC Bee cart, MSB Premier DAC --> Music First Baby Reference v2 --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> YG Acoustics Hailey 2.2

  20. #20
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Mike- any updated comments on the Premier vs Ref as you've had significant time with them now?
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ 47 Labs MC Bee cart, MSB Premier DAC --> Music First Baby Reference v2 --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> YG Acoustics Hailey 2.2

  21. #21
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    so when does the bad boy Ref dac land? So excited for you, Jordan!
    Mike - said it would be around 4 weeks from order placement. Itís been 2 weeks...so halfway there unless it gets in sooner. One can hope! Seriously struggling to wait! Mike...have put the afterburners on!!
    Last edited by Germanboxers; March 30, 2019 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Spelling
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Amplifier: Audio Research Reference 75 SE
    Speakers: Zu Definitions Mk4
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  22. #22
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    Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    Mike- any updated comments on the Premier vs Ref as you've had significant time with them now?
    Me? REF all the way. Base REF outperforms a pimped out Premier.

    I just want to say, the Discrete with dual power supply ($1495 extra) is insanely good for the $$$. Basically at $13,500 it trumps many more expensive DACís. You know, the ones I keep taking in on trade!



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  23. #23
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanboxers View Post
    Mike - said it would be around 4 weeks from order placement. Itís been 2 weeks...so halfway there unless it gets in sooner. One can hope! Seriously struggling to wait! Mike...have put the afterburners on!!
    Vrrrroooom!

    MSB is busy as heck.


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  24. #24
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Does the man have a network input ?
    Server option ?
    TUBEZATOR

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  25. #25

    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrainbow View Post
    Does the man have a network input ?
    Server option ?
    Renderer??

  26. #26

    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Me? REF all the way. Base REF outperforms a pimped our Discrete.

    I just want to say, the Discrete with dual power supply ($1495 extra) is insanely good for the $$$. Basically at $13,500 it trumps many more expensive DAC’s. You know, the ones I keep taking in on trade!



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The question, Mike, was not about Discrete vs. Reference, but Premier vs. Reference.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  27. #27
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    Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    The question, Mike, was not about Discrete vs. Reference, but Premier vs. Reference.
    Yes, and I answered it. The Discrete was just a typo. Corrected above.

    Mention of Discrete with dual power supply was just a sidebar.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

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  28. #28
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrainbow View Post
    Does the man have a network input ?
    Server option ?
    Al, see the attached image to understand how my network is setup and how I plan to proceed. Looking for opinions on this in another thread as well.

    With the GG in the system, I used the capsv3 computer as an NAA in the room and used my i7 desktop computer in the office to run roonserver and HQPlayer. Going forward, I plan to use the capsv3 computer in the utility room to run roonserver with music storage on a synology NAS in the same room.

    The capsv3 is running W10 optimized with the audiophile optimizer. I also have a replacement SSD that has licensed W12 Server with AO, but I couldn't make that work reliably as an NAA so I switched to W10 w/AO instead. I may try W12 Server with roonserver at some point to see if it is better.

    Also, the image below shows RCA from MSB Ref to ARC Ref75SE, it is actually balanced, not RCA

    Audio Layout-4-1-2019.jpg
    Last edited by Germanboxers; March 31, 2019 at 08:28 AM. Reason: additional info
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Amplifier: Audio Research Reference 75 SE
    Speakers: Zu Definitions Mk4
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  29. #29
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    I also have a TP Link optical ethernet isolator that can be used, but I would MUCH prefer that it not be in the music room. Will the receiver on this be able to drive the ~40-50ft of ethernet cable from the utility room to the music room? I was thinking something like switch->TPLink->40-50ft ethernet cable->MSB Ref as a possibility.

    I could use the UPtone LPS 2nd feed to power the receiver end of the TPLink and a cheaper LPS for the sender side. The primary feed off the Uptone LPS will feed the capsv3 server.
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Amplifier: Audio Research Reference 75 SE
    Speakers: Zu Definitions Mk4
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  30. #30

    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Yes, and I answered it. The Discrete was just a typo. Corrected above.

    Mention of Discrete with dual power supply was just a sidebar.
    Ok thanks, Mike.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  31. #31
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanboxers View Post
    Al, see the attached image to understand how my network is setup and how I plan to proceed. Looking for opinions on this in another thread as well.

    With the GG in the system, I used the capsv3 computer as an NAA in the room and used my i7 desktop computer in the office to run roonserver and HQPlayer. Going forward, I plan to use the capsv3 computer in the utility room to run roonserver with music storage on a synology NAS in the same room.

    The capsv3 is running W10 optimized with the audiophile optimizer. I also have a replacement SSD that has licensed W12 Server with AO, but I couldn't make that work reliably as an NAA so I switched to W10 w/AO instead. I may try W12 Server with roonserver at some point to see if it is better.

    Also, the image below shows RCA from MSB Ref to ARC Ref75SE, it is actually balanced, not RCA

    Audio Layout-4-1-2019.jpg
    ok I'm replying now I'm sorry for not dong it sooner. my life has been hell big time.

    Before we go into networks let me reply on difference of Lampi and all of Msb.
    I owned Msb dacs for years even had flagships for trials.
    Way back when some 5 years ago Msb was clearly way ahead of the pack including Lampi that i owned back then as well.
    Msb makes a good product pretty much free of issues when new or even second hand.
    Every two years or so firmware updates improved there platform sound .
    i owned two PSU as I had the 4 pic stack all loaded . The second PSU that was 6 k then had little impact other then to say and show I had it lol.
    I was told and promised my Vince the UMT Plus would stream dsd128 this never happened .
    in fact oppo who made it said it never would and did not know why Vince said it would .
    Vince is. Very nice man , seems honest and Answers the phone himself. Something to be said for this and its a positive for me.
    About 2 years back the new USB 2 that was really 3 was talked about . It was to do native Dsd not a deal breaker for me but cool. It also was to have two more very inportent details I wanted. After all this was a 3k upgrade . It was to do MQA yes MQA . Next and perhaps more important was it was to have the rebook filter . Now why is this inportmant ?
    Well the dac v was a bust the sel 1 was too , does anyone own one ? Did they have to spend 10k to upgrade to a sel 2 ? The red book filter is paramount to owning an Msb dac . If not there is point owning it. Ps even after 3 k and new USB input . That did sound better . Still no red book. I was again promised by Vince that there is a new renderer it would do it lol .
    The point is as good as Msb is there are always factors that effect big money purchases.
    So I spent 40k 5 years ago it never did all it was to do .
    Now why do I care well it's to keep this honest . The preamps I had in my Msb were very well made but as audio life shows itself it has become that a real active pre is best so save some money.
    Now what's a Lampi compared to a Msb dac. Well this greAtly depends on who we ask . Since I owned both and multiples of each and build severs , have pretty ok setup to judge by. I am brutally honest be it good or bad period . I get bashed but it's ok I don't sell , I don't mAke a thing to be sold. I do consult , I do make servers for for friends . I do think short of the UMT,s dsd shortfall it was a very good steamer server. In fact it took me two years or more to catch much less surpass it. It played and found music any where. Did it almost perfect. No dac , server and digital is perfect period.
    It was way above the streamer , sever of that time.
    Now having said this the 5 Lampi dacs I owned were all very good and perfect yes perfect. But I also know of many not perfect ones to keep this honest . Some 3 years ago mYbe 4 years
    I asked for a head dac it was to be for me period. It was made and again perfect but it did make 3 trips back to poland to be as I wanted it. Headphones have a very strict detail to adhere to. Lampi did not get this at first . When it was done Ina very timely fashion it then blew away my exp Msb lol. In fact the only two reasons I kept it we're for its UMT plus and it's pre amp. My dacs are always SE but I need BAL to long interconnects needed.
    This led me to a new preamp over time . It did its Service well in going from SE to bal .

    What a Lampi does and this is GG and up so its a TRP , GG2 , PAC I am posting about is this.
    1- its staging is above any Msb dac I ever heard up to and including a sel 2 with its red book filter.
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  32. #32
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    And of course, having owned every Lampi from Big 7 to GG to GG2 to Pacific, I donít agree.

    For me, the MSBís current lineup is far and away the finest digital sources on the market. They are reliable and more analog sounding than any other DAC Iíve heard. They are modular based, handle MQA, integrate Roon, and present a variety of easily swappable options.

    They place emphasis on ladder DACís, not chips, clocks, power supplies and much more.

    And with the upgraded preamp modules, they are so good, that owning a preamp is merely an option, but certainly not required.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  33. #33
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Continued so a bud is in Europe gets to have in his room the Msb below the sel 2 , he calls me and says what the hell is it broken lol. Well in fairness it was new and did not have its server , so a cheap one there was used.
    Now why is this inportmant to know , well in my view there are three levels of digital .
    top tier can sound great on its own gas exp internal ways of making it be good from lesser sources this makes it worth the money to some
    msb is one here.
    mid tier can have a top tier sound at less then half to even one third but needs a good or great source to get there. All new Lampi dacs live here
    bottom tier dacs that no matter whAt is done can't rise above its level at price point in sound

    no no why do I feel Lampi belongs in top tier ?
    it rolls tubes no dac made can change as it does. It is great but can you the last 15% by its virtue in rolling . No dac made does this.
    It does dsd that sounds lime dsd where most all dacs including Msb don't .
    It is a third of the rock for its flagship model so even if we add on a 7 k top model Server from Lampi being there sk or others it's still way below top tier prices.
    I own a pac , I am buying a gg2 if it was not as I posted I would not be doing as I did.

    Network next.
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  34. #34
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    And of course, having owned every Lampi from Big 7 to GG to GG2 to Pacific, I don’t agree.

    For me, the MSB’s current lineup is far and away the finest digital sources on the market. They are reliable and more analog sounding than any other DAC I’ve heard. They are modular based, handle MQA, integrate Roon, and present a variety of easily swappable options.

    They place emphasis on ladder DAC’s, not chips, clocks, power supplies and much more.

    And with the upgraded preamp modules, they are so good, that owning a preamp is merely an option, but certainly not required.
    I respect your views mike always. And yes you been to Lampi
    and back.

  35. #35
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    I'm printing out the network and I'll high lite and scan back nice plan pic
    TUBEZATOR

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    Bespoke Windows Server 2016 server with AO
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  36. #36
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    And of course, having owned every Lampi from Big 7 to GG to GG2 to Pacific, I don’t agree.

    For me, the MSB’s current lineup is far and away the finest digital sources on the market. They are reliable and more analog sounding than any other DAC I’ve heard. They are modular based, handle MQA, integrate Roon, and present a variety of easily swappable options.

    They place emphasis on ladder DAC’s, not chips, clocks, power supplies and much more.

    And with the upgraded preamp modules, they are so good, that owning a preamp is merely an option, but certainly not required.
    I heard them and they are very good, but Lampis are much more analog to me and I guess that to each his own. The Sel 1 was a huge "Meh". The Sel2 is much better. The cost of MSB Dacs are very "tasty" now and I could never justify that.

    This very thread us a mystery to me. The OP asks for a comparison between the GG1 and the Reference Dac. there is like £X price difference there. Given he has a Lampi and knows and likes the sound, it would be far more logical to compare the Ref to a GG2 or Pacific, if he had an upgrade itch. The GG 2 upgrade cost is a relative bargain. The Pac cost is just over half the Ref cost (I assume its circa $40K starting price). Pimped out fully, the Ref is significantly more than 2X the Pac.

    Without even addressing preferences or what is better, I would have expected the OP to first investigate the higher Lampi models...especially since it took a while for the Ref to gain a decisive preference advantage to the "lowly" GG1.

    However, since he has the budget, no one should begrudge his spending choices and I hope he remains happy with his choice for a long time.
    NORMAN
    Custom PC with Memory Player Software Suite/ Modded Denon CD transport>Lampi GG1 (and sometimes PACIFIC) DHT tube Dac> Rowen 850W Isolating Transformer/ Rowen SS Preamp and PA1 monoblocs/Lampi Silk power cond. with Phase flipper> Heil AMT KITHARA & Syrinx in parallel hookup. Swiss cables (Reference line) for PC/interconnects and speaker cables. Goldmund Sweetcord PC. FTA Callisto unpowered USB cable. Basic analog: vintage Lenco L78 TT with Rowen mat, Denon MM cart, iFi iPhono2 with 15v Hynes SR3 LPSU. Synology 12 TB NAS. 2nd system:KenWin Bluetooth speaker 3rd system TBI Millemnium amp with Aulos speakers and SB Duo hookup.

  37. #37
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    Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by wisnon View Post
    I heard them and they are very good, but Lampis are much more analog to me and I guess that to each his own. The Sel 1 was a huge "Meh". The Sel2 is much better. The cost of MSB Dacs are very "tasty" now and I could never justify that.

    This very thread us a mystery to me. The OP asks for a comparison between the GG1 and the Reference Dac. there is like £X price difference there. Given he has a Lampi and knows and likes the sound, it would be far more logical to compare the Ref to a GG2 or Pacific, if he had an upgrade itch. The GG 2 upgrade cost is a relative bargain. The Pac cost is just over half the Ref cost (I assume its circa $40K starting price). Pimped out fully, the Ref is significantly more than 2X the Pac.

    Without even addressing preferences or what is better, I would have expected the OP to first investigate the higher Lampi models...especially since it took a while for the Ref to gain a decisive preference advantage to the "lowly" GG1.

    However, since he has the budget, no one should begrudge his spending choices and I hope he remains happy with his choice for a long time.
    I donít agree. The MSBís sound extremely analog, the most to me, and similar to my R2R. I think Mike L. would agree.

    As for the customer, there was no comparison against even against the Premier I loaned him. He has wisely ordered a REF DAC.


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, EMM Labs, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stenheim Loudspeakers, Stillpoints, T+A Electronics, TechDAS/AirForce Turntables, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  38. #38
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Did he get to hear any new LAMPI dacs while I'm not objecting to choices I do of none were allowed to be heard.

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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?


  40. #40
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    And of course, having owned every Lampi from Big 7 to GG to GG2 to Pacific, I don’t agree.

    For me, the MSB’s current lineup is far and away the finest digital sources on the market. They are reliable and more analog sounding than any other DAC I’ve heard. They are modular based, handle MQA, integrate Roon, and present a variety of easily swappable options.

    They place emphasis on ladder DAC’s, not chips, clocks, power supplies and much more.

    And with the upgraded preamp modules, they are so good, that owning a preamp is merely an option, but certainly not required.
    As this is a thread related to Lampi vs MSB I read what you wrote in a manner that MSB is reliable and Lampi is unreliable crap which at least for the last part I don't see like that having many Lampies in my own system and hearing even more of them in other systems. Sound wise we can as always debate what is better or worse in this hobby so in general I will not comment on this. But that you personally hosted the world premiere of Pacific DAC with nice presentation at your premises and being their dealer (seems to me you are not anymore) and now bashing the entire brand and calling them sublimely unreliable it's just not OK (in my book).
    But we can also say also like this - Lampi is placing focus on sonicall involvement and engagement with musical material, allowing users to immerse into extremely musical presentation in realistic and euphonic way.
    And BTW I've heard quite a few MSBs including Select 2 in several systems but to be fair also in mine and I've happily selected other option (more for less $)
    LS: Vienna Acoustics Imperial Liszt
    PowerAmp: ARC REF 75 (KT150)
    PreAmp: ARC REF 6
    Source: Lampizator Pacific SE
    Streamer: LDMS Music Server
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  41. #41
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I don’t agree. The MSB’s sound extremely analog, the most to me, and similar to my R2R. I think Mike L. would agree.

    As for the customer, there was no comparison against even against the Premier I loaned him. He has wisely ordered a REF DAC.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I would expect you to disagree. No biggie there, to each his own. Variety is the spice of life.
    However, my main point remains about the OP. The process lacked a certain logic.
    NORMAN
    Custom PC with Memory Player Software Suite/ Modded Denon CD transport>Lampi GG1 (and sometimes PACIFIC) DHT tube Dac> Rowen 850W Isolating Transformer/ Rowen SS Preamp and PA1 monoblocs/Lampi Silk power cond. with Phase flipper> Heil AMT KITHARA & Syrinx in parallel hookup. Swiss cables (Reference line) for PC/interconnects and speaker cables. Goldmund Sweetcord PC. FTA Callisto unpowered USB cable. Basic analog: vintage Lenco L78 TT with Rowen mat, Denon MM cart, iFi iPhono2 with 15v Hynes SR3 LPSU. Synology 12 TB NAS. 2nd system:KenWin Bluetooth speaker 3rd system TBI Millemnium amp with Aulos speakers and SB Duo hookup.

  42. #42
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    Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Golum View Post
    As this is a thread related to Lampi vs MSB I read what you wrote in a manner that MSB is reliable and Lampi is unreliable crap which at least for the last part I don't see like that having many Lampies in my own system and hearing even more of them in other systems. Sound wise we can as always debate what is better or worse in this hobby so in general I will not comment on this. But that you personally hosted the world premiere of Pacific DAC with nice presentation at your premises and being their dealer (seems to me you are not anymore) and now bashing the entire brand and calling them sublimely unreliable it's just not OK (in my book).
    But we can also say also like this - Lampi is placing focus on sonicall involvement and engagement with musical material, allowing users to immerse into extremely musical presentation in realistic and euphonic way.
    And BTW I've heard quite a few MSBs including Select 2 in several systems but to be fair also in mine and I've happily selected other option (more for less $)
    I frankly donít care what you think. Iím not bashing Lampi. I really like the guys. Really great guys.

    I parted ways with them because EVERY SINGLE LAMPI PRODUCT (DACís and Amps) had problems and had to be repaired. Thatís a fact. Even my Pacific broke and had to go back after I sold it. All of it became exhausting to me and my customers.

    Even though the Lampi guys were terrific in handling repairs, it just became too much. I lost good friends and customers over it. Thats another fact. Thatís why I talked to Fred in December and wished him the best, but I had to move on. No hard feelings. And as I said, they always handled any problems like champs.

    When youíre on this side of things, your perspective might be a little different.

    I know they are working hard on the issues above, and once rectified, we can get back to discussing the sound.

    For now, Iím glad youíre enjoying your Lampi.


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  43. #43
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    T
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I parted ways with them because EVERY SINGLE LAMPI PRODUCT (DAC’s and Amps) had problems and had to be repaired. That’s a fact. Even my Pacific broke and had to go back after I sold it. All of it became exhausting to me and my customers.

    Even though the Lampi guys were terrific in handling repairs, it just became too much. I lost good friends and customers over it. Thats another fact. That’s why I talked to Fred in December and wished him the best, but I had to move on. No hard feelings. And as I said, they always handled any problems like champs.

    When you’re on this side of things, your perspective might be a little different.

    I know they are working hard on the issues above, and once rectified, we can get back to discussing the sound.

    For now, I’m glad you’re enjoying your Lampi.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mike,

    It sounds like Lampizator is still having QA issues, which is something I had hoped they would grow out of. No sense in sweeping it under the rug if this is the case. Caveat Emptor.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000ís with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  44. #44
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I frankly don’t care what you think. I’m not bashing Lampi. I really like the guys. Really great guys.

    I parted ways with them because EVERY SINGLE LAMPI PRODUCT (DAC’s and Amps) had problems and had to be repaired. That’s a fact. Even my Pacific broke and had to go back after I sold it. All of it became exhausting to me and my customers.

    Even though the Lampi guys were terrific in handling repairs, it just became too much. I lost good friends and customers over it. Thats another fact. That’s why I talked to Fred in December and wished him the best, but I had to move on. No hard feelings. And as I said, they always handled any problems like champs.

    When you’re on this side of things, your perspective might be a little different.

    I know they are working hard on the issues above, and once rectified, we can get back to discussing the sound.

    For now, I’m glad you’re enjoying your Lampi.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Problem is that you DO care what I or any other forum member say here, as this forum is a very nice marketing tool for certain brands in the "portfolio" admit it or not, or if others can see it or not.
    Talking about reliability I can very easily claim that ARC gear is crap, as I had to take my Ref6 3 times to service center due to idiotic volume control unit (btw Ref6 has 1200h on it) and twice the Ref75 to the service center in last 12 months.
    But hey, it sounds nice/great and i love it, so I will make an extra mile for it despite driving me crazy.

    I'm also very glad that you are happy, both with the performance and reliability of MSB, as only if you feel like that you can sell many of those to your customers.
    And yes, I love Lampi and I love the people behind it as they are phenomenal guys.

    Have a great day!

    P.S. I very much understand your perspective and your side of things
    LS: Vienna Acoustics Imperial Liszt
    PowerAmp: ARC REF 75 (KT150)
    PreAmp: ARC REF 6
    Source: Lampizator Pacific SE
    Streamer: LDMS Music Server
    CD player/Transport: Audio Analogue Maestro
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  45. #45
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    This is one persons view so who makes perfect products ?
    who has no support issues ?
    In this industry there are plenty of closet items. I find it not fair to post as there is always more to any argument. How is it fAir to make a post to Compare a
    4 year old product to a new one three times the price. This is not a setup ?
    has any one posted of how much less an upgrade is on his gg dac ?
    Has anyone posting heard any new LAMPI dacs ?
    Has anyone posting mentioned how many times more the msb product is ?
    I owned them I can post and I can say what I feel makes one better. And it's about sound and any msb can't change its sound not even a bit. Tube rolling can.
    did anyone Comment on my red book filter
    does this new exp msb have it ?
    It's not fair to say one is better based on price alone but one still should consider it on a purchase. We are considering three to one on price and it's still ok ?
    TUBEZATOR

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    Dac lampi Pac and GG2.



  46. #46
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by wisnon View Post
    I heard them and they are very good, but Lampis are much more analog to me and I guess that to each his own. The Sel 1 was a huge "Meh". The Sel2 is much better. The cost of MSB Dacs are very "tasty" now and I could never justify that.

    This very thread us a mystery to me. The OP asks for a comparison between the GG1 and the Reference Dac. there is like £X price difference there. Given he has a Lampi and knows and likes the sound, it would be far more logical to compare the Ref to a GG2 or Pacific, if he had an upgrade itch. The GG 2 upgrade cost is a relative bargain. The Pac cost is just over half the Ref cost (I assume its circa $40K starting price). Pimped out fully, the Ref is significantly more than 2X the Pac.

    Without even addressing preferences or what is better, I would have expected the OP to first investigate the higher Lampi models...especially since it took a while for the Ref to gain a decisive preference advantage to the "lowly" GG1.

    However, since he has the budget, no one should begrudge his spending choices and I hope he remains happy with his choice for a long time.
    First, to the bolded part: if you read the thread title, I was interested in comparisons between the GG and the Premier and that is what Mike sent me to compare.

    As mentioned by me above, the GG was the single greatest upgrade I had made in my 30 years in this hobby. Just a list of dacs I've owned and lived with over those years: Theta Basic III, Theta Gen V, Audio Aero Capitole, Esoteric UX3 with Statement mod from Steve Huntely, Berkeley Alpha DAC, Metric Halo LIO-8 pro audio dac, Luxman DA6, Lampizator Big 7 (used), Lampizator Golden Gate. I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

    I did not expect the MSB Premier to compete with my GG...seriously. Most of those dacs I've owned were good/better in some way to what I used just prior (not always), but most were also just "incremental". I would have to listen for a little while to determine differences and then a bit longer to determine preferences. The Big 7 and GG were MAJOR steps forward and noticeable immediately. The MSB Premier is incrementally better (to me) in many different areas, but it is incremental, not MAJOR. The key for me is that it didn't give up what the Lampi's brought to my room: organic, natural, cohesive, tonally dense, real-sounding music. The Premier just did those and more a little better.

    Quote Originally Posted by wisnon View Post
    Given he has a Lampi and knows and likes the sound, it would be far more logical to compare the Ref to a GG2 or Pacific, if he had an upgrade itch. The GG 2 upgrade cost is a relative bargain. The Pac cost is just over half the Ref cost (I assume its circa $40K starting price). Pimped out fully, the Ref is significantly more than 2X the Pac.
    Secondly, I have investigated going balanced GG about 2 years ago. I received a demo used at one of the shows (can't remember) with the intention of buying it; however, it was all over the map. After about a week with it, I started to freak out about the mistake I had made. My SE GG with Dueland caps was just superior to me and the balanced GG with Mundorfs (I think) made all my albums sound really different, but not better. Fred was awesome and gave me a full refund minus shipping. Now, I have no idea if it was the balanced config, the mundorfs, or something else that so altered my experience with that Lampizator, but it confirmed for me that I must hear a significant component in my system before pulling the trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by wisnon View Post
    Without even addressing preferences or what is better, I would have expected the OP to first investigate the higher Lampi models
    Thirdly, or secondly continued, the start of this thread was exactly the first steps toward examining potential upgrades either within Lampi or (possibly) MSB. I had heard the Select II at Axpona a couple of years ago...sounded really good, but I can't tell a thing from an audio show...strange equipment, rooms, etc. My inclusion of the MSB was more based on what I had read than from that show. There is a great deal of enthusiasm surrounding these new releases and the Premier was of interest to me.

    I did not investigate the possibility of auditioning a GG2 or a Pacific, though I would have tried at some point in this process if I had not enjoyed the Premier so much. From past experience, that would not have been so easy because I really don't like wasting dealers/importers time, or my own for that matter. I had already done this with Fred and although he was incredibly pleasant throughout, I felt badly that I had to return the unit. I would not do this again with Fred unless I had little doubt that I would follow through.

    Quote Originally Posted by wisnon View Post
    ...especially since it took a while for the Ref to gain a decisive preference advantage to the "lowly" GG1.
    I also wouldn't say it "took a while for the Premier to gain a decisive preference advantage to the 'lowly' GG1" The settling in time was predicted by Mike; it was nicely sorted in a couple of days, but my weekdays are very busy and are not a good time to compare equipment. I have a friend who only needs a very short time listening to a component to determine better/worse; I WISH I was that lucky! That Sat morning, I had to become familiar with the sound, to understand how it presents various instruments, recordings, etc. Jumping back and forth would have screwed with my ability to really understand that part of the Premier. For me it is more than better/worse, more like better/worse/preference/worth it...that takes time to reveal...in this case, a full day of listening.
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Amplifier: Audio Research Reference 75 SE
    Speakers: Zu Definitions Mk4
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  47. #47
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    Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Golum, youíre right that no brand is immune to problems, and if there is one, please let me know. Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?. I cannot think of one. It might be a purple squirrel.

    Letís get back to focusing on sound! We can agree that Lampizator makes a fine sounding product and the guys are all terrific. I would argue the Golden Atlantic is the sleeper of the entire lineup and I still have a soft spot for the Big 7.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, EMM Labs, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stenheim Loudspeakers, Stillpoints, T+A Electronics, TechDAS/AirForce Turntables, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  48. #48
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by wisnon View Post
    However, my main point remains about the OP. The process lacked a certain logic.
    Please..."lacked a certain logic"? What does that even mean? Read my response just above for the "logic" in play. If you still find it lacking...well then, ask a specific question.
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Amplifier: Audio Research Reference 75 SE
    Speakers: Zu Definitions Mk4
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  49. #49
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Lets all agree to move on it does no one good on either side and not Right to mike on his place. I submit a bow out lol.
    Mill be posting a marked up plan for data.

  50. #50
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    Re: Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrainbow View Post
    Lets all agree to move on it does no one good on either side and not Right to mike on his place. I submit a bow out lol.
    Mill be posting a marked up plan for data.
    Thanks, Al. I know you have had a lot of experience on the server side of things. Would appreciate your input.
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Amplifier: Audio Research Reference 75 SE
    Speakers: Zu Definitions Mk4
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

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Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

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