Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

KeithR said:

so when does the bad boy Ref dac land? So excited for you, Jordan!

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Mike - said it would be around 4 weeks from order placement. It’s been 2 weeks...so halfway there unless it gets in sooner. :woot: One can hope! Seriously struggling to wait! Mike...have put the afterburners on!!

KeithR said:

Mike- any updated comments on the Premier vs Ref as you've had significant time with them now?

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Me? REF all the way. Base REF outperforms a pimped out Premier.

I just want to say, the Discrete with dual power supply ($1495 extra) is insanely good for the $$$. Basically at $13,500 it trumps many more expensive DAC’s. You know, the ones I keep taking in on trade!



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Germanboxers said:

Mike - said it would be around 4 weeks from order placement. It’s been 2 weeks...so halfway there unless it gets in sooner. :woot: One can hope! Seriously struggling to wait! Mike...have put the afterburners on!!

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Vrrrroooom!

MSB is busy as heck.


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Does the man have a network input ?
Server option ?

Alrainbow said:

Does the man have a network input ?
Server option ?

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Renderer??

Mike said:

Me? REF all the way. Base REF outperforms a pimped our Discrete.

I just want to say, the Discrete with dual power supply ($1495 extra) is insanely good for the $$$. Basically at $13,500 it trumps many more expensive DAC’s. You know, the ones I keep taking in on trade!



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The question, Mike, was not about Discrete vs. Reference, but Premier vs. Reference.

Al M. said:

The question, Mike, was not about Discrete vs. Reference, but Premier vs. Reference.

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Yes, and I answered it. The Discrete was just a typo. Corrected above.

Mention of Discrete with dual power supply was just a sidebar.

Alrainbow said:

Does the man have a network input ?
Server option ?

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Al, see the attached image to understand how my network is setup and how I plan to proceed. Looking for opinions on this in another thread as well.

With the GG in the system, I used the capsv3 computer as an NAA in the room and used my i7 desktop computer in the office to run roonserver and HQPlayer. Going forward, I plan to use the capsv3 computer in the utility room to run roonserver with music storage on a synology NAS in the same room.

The capsv3 is running W10 optimized with the audiophile optimizer. I also have a replacement SSD that has licensed W12 Server with AO, but I couldn't make that work reliably as an NAA so I switched to W10 w/AO instead. I may try W12 Server with roonserver at some point to see if it is better.

Also, the image below shows RCA from MSB Ref to ARC Ref75SE, it is actually balanced, not RCA

I also have a TP Link optical ethernet isolator that can be used, but I would MUCH prefer that it not be in the music room. Will the receiver on this be able to drive the ~40-50ft of ethernet cable from the utility room to the music room? I was thinking something like switch->TPLink->40-50ft ethernet cable->MSB Ref as a possibility.

I could use the UPtone LPS 2nd feed to power the receiver end of the TPLink and a cheaper LPS for the sender side. The primary feed off the Uptone LPS will feed the capsv3 server.

Mike said:

Yes, and I answered it. The Discrete was just a typo. Corrected above.

Mention of Discrete with dual power supply was just a sidebar.

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Ok thanks, Mike.

Germanboxers said:

Al, see the attached image to understand how my network is setup and how I plan to proceed. Looking for opinions on this in another thread as well.

With the GG in the system, I used the capsv3 computer as an NAA in the room and used my i7 desktop computer in the office to run roonserver and HQPlayer. Going forward, I plan to use the capsv3 computer in the utility room to run roonserver with music storage on a synology NAS in the same room.

The capsv3 is running W10 optimized with the audiophile optimizer. I also have a replacement SSD that has licensed W12 Server with AO, but I couldn't make that work reliably as an NAA so I switched to W10 w/AO instead. I may try W12 Server with roonserver at some point to see if it is better.

Also, the image below shows RCA from MSB Ref to ARC Ref75SE, it is actually balanced, not RCA

View attachment 25300

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ok I'm replying now I'm sorry for not dong it sooner. my life has been hell big time.

Before we go into networks let me reply on difference of Lampi and all of Msb.
I owned Msb dacs for years even had flagships for trials.
Way back when some 5 years ago Msb was clearly way ahead of the pack including Lampi that i owned back then as well.
Msb makes a good product pretty much free of issues when new or even second hand.
Every two years or so firmware updates improved there platform sound .
i owned two PSU as I had the 4 pic stack all loaded . The second PSU that was 6 k then had little impact other then to say and show I had it lol.
I was told and promised my Vince the UMT Plus would stream dsd128 this never happened .
in fact oppo who made it said it never would and did not know why Vince said it would .
Vince is. Very nice man , seems honest and Answers the phone himself. Something to be said for this and its a positive for me.
About 2 years back the new USB 2 that was really 3 was talked about . It was to do native Dsd not a deal breaker for me but cool. It also was to have two more very inportent details I wanted. After all this was a 3k upgrade . It was to do MQA yes MQA . Next and perhaps more important was it was to have the rebook filter . Now why is this inportmant ?
Well the dac v was a bust the sel 1 was too , does anyone own one ? Did they have to spend 10k to upgrade to a sel 2 ? The red book filter is paramount to owning an Msb dac . If not there is point owning it. Ps even after 3 k and new USB input . That did sound better . Still no red book. I was again promised by Vince that there is a new renderer it would do it lol .
The point is as good as Msb is there are always factors that effect big money purchases.
So I spent 40k 5 years ago it never did all it was to do .
Now why do I care well it's to keep this honest . The preamps I had in my Msb were very well made but as audio life shows itself it has become that a real active pre is best so save some money.
Now what's a Lampi compared to a Msb dac. Well this greAtly depends on who we ask . Since I owned both and multiples of each and build severs , have pretty ok setup to judge by. I am brutally honest be it good or bad period . I get bashed but it's ok I don't sell , I don't mAke a thing to be sold. I do consult , I do make servers for for friends . I do think short of the UMT,s dsd shortfall it was a very good steamer server. In fact it took me two years or more to catch much less surpass it. It played and found music any where. Did it almost perfect. No dac , server and digital is perfect period.
It was way above the streamer , sever of that time.
Now having said this the 5 Lampi dacs I owned were all very good and perfect yes perfect. But I also know of many not perfect ones to keep this honest . Some 3 years ago mYbe 4 years
I asked for a head dac it was to be for me period. It was made and again perfect but it did make 3 trips back to poland to be as I wanted it. Headphones have a very strict detail to adhere to. Lampi did not get this at first . When it was done Ina very timely fashion it then blew away my exp Msb lol. In fact the only two reasons I kept it we're for its UMT plus and it's pre amp. My dacs are always SE but I need BAL to long interconnects needed.
This led me to a new preamp over time . It did its Service well in going from SE to bal .

What a Lampi does and this is GG and up so its a TRP , GG2 , PAC I am posting about is this.
1- its staging is above any Msb dac I ever heard up to and including a sel 2 with its red book filter.

And of course, having owned every Lampi from Big 7 to GG to GG2 to Pacific, I don’t agree.

For me, the MSB’s current lineup is far and away the finest digital sources on the market. They are reliable and more analog sounding than any other DAC I’ve heard. They are modular based, handle MQA, integrate Roon, and present a variety of easily swappable options.

They place emphasis on ladder DAC’s, not chips, clocks, power supplies and much more.

And with the upgraded preamp modules, they are so good, that owning a preamp is merely an option, but certainly not required.

Continued so a bud is in Europe gets to have in his room the Msb below the sel 2 , he calls me and says what the hell is it broken lol. Well in fairness it was new and did not have its server , so a cheap one there was used.
Now why is this inportmant to know , well in my view there are three levels of digital .
top tier can sound great on its own gas exp internal ways of making it be good from lesser sources this makes it worth the money to some
msb is one here.
mid tier can have a top tier sound at less then half to even one third but needs a good or great source to get there. All new Lampi dacs live here
bottom tier dacs that no matter whAt is done can't rise above its level at price point in sound

no no why do I feel Lampi belongs in top tier ?
it rolls tubes no dac made can change as it does. It is great but can you the last 15% by its virtue in rolling . No dac made does this.
It does dsd that sounds lime dsd where most all dacs including Msb don't .
It is a third of the rock for its flagship model so even if we add on a 7 k top model Server from Lampi being there sk or others it's still way below top tier prices.
I own a pac , I am buying a gg2 if it was not as I posted I would not be doing as I did.

Network next.

Mike said:

And of course, having owned every Lampi from Big 7 to GG to GG2 to Pacific, I don’t agree.

For me, the MSB’s current lineup is far and away the finest digital sources on the market. They are reliable and more analog sounding than any other DAC I’ve heard. They are modular based, handle MQA, integrate Roon, and present a variety of easily swappable options.

They place emphasis on ladder DAC’s, not chips, clocks, power supplies and much more.

And with the upgraded preamp modules, they are so good, that owning a preamp is merely an option, but certainly not required.

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I respect your views mike always. And yes you been to Lampi
and back.

I'm printing out the network and I'll high lite and scan back nice plan pic

Mike said:

And of course, having owned every Lampi from Big 7 to GG to GG2 to Pacific, I don’t agree.

For me, the MSB’s current lineup is far and away the finest digital sources on the market. They are reliable and more analog sounding than any other DAC I’ve heard. They are modular based, handle MQA, integrate Roon, and present a variety of easily swappable options.

They place emphasis on ladder DAC’s, not chips, clocks, power supplies and much more.

And with the upgraded preamp modules, they are so good, that owning a preamp is merely an option, but certainly not required.

Click to expand...

I heard them and they are very good, but Lampis are much more analog to me and I guess that to each his own. The Sel 1 was a huge "Meh". The Sel2 is much better. The cost of MSB Dacs are very "tasty" now and I could never justify that.

This very thread us a mystery to me. The OP asks for a comparison between the GG1 and the Reference Dac. there is like £X price difference there. Given he has a Lampi and knows and likes the sound, it would be far more logical to compare the Ref to a GG2 or Pacific, if he had an upgrade itch. The GG 2 upgrade cost is a relative bargain. The Pac cost is just over half the Ref cost (I assume its circa $40K starting price). Pimped out fully, the Ref is significantly more than 2X the Pac.

Without even addressing preferences or what is better, I would have expected the OP to first investigate the higher Lampi models...especially since it took a while for the Ref to gain a decisive preference advantage to the "lowly" GG1.

However, since he has the budget, no one should begrudge his spending choices and I hope he remains happy with his choice for a long time.

wisnon said:

I heard them and they are very good, but Lampis are much more analog to me and I guess that to each his own. The Sel 1 was a huge "Meh". The Sel2 is much better. The cost of MSB Dacs are very "tasty" now and I could never justify that.

This very thread us a mystery to me. The OP asks for a comparison between the GG1 and the Reference Dac. there is like £X price difference there. Given he has a Lampi and knows and likes the sound, it would be far more logical to compare the Ref to a GG2 or Pacific, if he had an upgrade itch. The GG 2 upgrade cost is a relative bargain. The Pac cost is just over half the Ref cost (I assume its circa $40K starting price). Pimped out fully, the Ref is significantly more than 2X the Pac.

Without even addressing preferences or what is better, I would have expected the OP to first investigate the higher Lampi models...especially since it took a while for the Ref to gain a decisive preference advantage to the "lowly" GG1.

However, since he has the budget, no one should begrudge his spending choices and I hope he remains happy with his choice for a long time.

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I don’t agree. The MSB’s sound extremely analog, the most to me, and similar to my R2R. I think Mike L. would agree.

As for the customer, there was no comparison against even against the Premier I loaned him. He has wisely ordered a REF DAC.


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Did he get to hear any new LAMPI dacs while I'm not objecting to choices I do of none were allowed to be heard.

Mike said:

And of course, having owned every Lampi from Big 7 to GG to GG2 to Pacific, I don’t agree.

For me, the MSB’s current lineup is far and away the finest digital sources on the market. They are reliable and more analog sounding than any other DAC I’ve heard. They are modular based, handle MQA, integrate Roon, and present a variety of easily swappable options.

They place emphasis on ladder DAC’s, not chips, clocks, power supplies and much more.

And with the upgraded preamp modules, they are so good, that owning a preamp is merely an option, but certainly not required.

Click to expand...

As this is a thread related to Lampi vs MSB I read what you wrote in a manner that MSB is reliable and Lampi is unreliable crap which at least for the last part I don't see like that having many Lampies in my own system and hearing even more of them in other systems. Sound wise we can as always debate what is better or worse in this hobby so in general I will not comment on this. But that you personally hosted the world premiere of Pacific DAC with nice presentation at your premises and being their dealer (seems to me you are not anymore) and now bashing the entire brand and calling them sublimely unreliable it's just not OK (in my book).
But we can also say also like this - Lampi is placing focus on sonicall involvement and engagement with musical material, allowing users to immerse into extremely musical presentation in realistic and euphonic way.
And BTW I've heard quite a few MSBs including Select 2 in several systems but to be fair also in mine and I've happily selected other option (more for less $)