New MSB S500 and M500 Amplifiers

**Alpinist** · May 9, 2019, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by audio.bill

An update on the M500 amps driving Magico M6 speakers, including pricing from Stereophile in Munich.

Positive mini review by JVS and impressive looks and specs. Pricing to match the Select and Reference DACs. M500 MSRP = $118,500; S500 MSRP = $58,500.

Ken

**Mike** · May 10, 2019, 02:30 AM

After running all day, these amps ran barely above room temperature. Just an FYI.

To me, they have no identifiable sound characteristic, not warm, not sweet, no dry, not.....other than dynamic as all hell with their over 1,000,000 microfarad capacitors and the blackest backgrounds you can imagine. It is kind of spooky. The music just appears from no where. Dead freaking quiet. The sound of the DAC comes through brilliantly. You simply, just hear the music.

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**Alpinist** · May 10, 2019, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

After running all day, these amps ran barely above room temperature. Just an FYI.

To me, they have no identifiable sound characteristic, not warm, not sweet, no dry, not.....other than dynamic as all hell with their over 1,000,000 microfarad capacitors and the blackest backgrounds you can imagine. It is kind of spooky. The music just appears from no where. Dead freaking quiet. The sound of the DAC comes through brilliantly. You simply, just hear the music.

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Thanks Mike,

How would characterize the overall sound you’re hearing from the S2/M500/M6 system? Could you compare/contrast it to the S2/M204/M3 system you listened to at Axpona this year?

Ken

**Kingsrule** · May 10, 2019, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

After running all day, these amps ran barely above room temperature. Just an FYI.

To me, they have no identifiable sound characteristic, not warm, not sweet, no dry, not.....other than dynamic as all hell with their over 1,000,000 microfarad capacitors and the blackest backgrounds you can imagine. It is kind of spooky. The music just appears from no where. Dead freaking quiet. The sound of the DAC comes through brilliantly. You simply, just hear the music.

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What classes up to what output do they run in?

**Mike** · May 10, 2019, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Thanks Mike,

How would characterize the overall sound you’re hearing from the S2/M500/M6 system? Could you compare/contrast it to the S2/M204/M3 system you listened to at Axpona this year?

Ken

The 204’s were very warm - in sound and output of heat. These new amazing amps are purely natural. Neutral isn’t the right word. They’re NATURAL. Dynamic as hell and the music just appears from no where. Blackest backgrounds I’ve ever heard.

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**Alpinist** · May 10, 2019, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Kingsrule

What classes up to what output do they run in?

Hi King,

The M500’s and M204’s (Discontinued) input stage is Class A and its output stage is Class A/B. I’ve asked MSB many times how many watts the M500’s and M204’s run in Class A and they do not measure it. The M500’s power consumption at idle is 150 watts per mono amp, while the M204’s power consumption at idle in the high bias mode is 280 watts per mono amp. So I believe the M204’s may run nearly twice as many watts in Class A as the M500’s. The M500’s are zero negative feedback judging by their Total Harmonic Distortion measurements.

Best,
Ken

**Mike** · May 10, 2019, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Kingsrule

What classes up to what output do they run in?

Asked and told by the designers “that’s not an official spec.” There is no actual way to measure it, only estimate based on calculations. It has a class A input stage. I would GUESS (this is just me), that is 5-20 watts at most. The amps run VERY cool.

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**pdub** · May 10, 2019, 11:20 AM

Not much elaboration so far on the impedance-matching and gain-setting alternatives. Would the s500 actually be viable for high-eff speakers?
Parker

**Mike** · May 10, 2019, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by pdub

Not much elaboration so far on the impedance-matching and gain-setting alternatives. Would the s500 actually be viable for high-eff speakers?
Parker

Yes. Absolutely. I posted a pic of the different settings.

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**Alpinist** · May 10, 2019, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Yes. Absolutely. I posted a pic of the different settings.

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M500/S500 Adjustable Settings:

Gain:

Low Gain (75 ohm input) = 14.8 dB

Medium Gain (75 ohm input) = 20.8 dB

High Gain (75 ohm input) = 26.8 dB

Input Impedance:

75 ohm

300 ohm

1,200 ohm

Ken

**pdub** · May 10, 2019, 11:42 AM

I know flea-watt fans differ, but one of the pitfalls of owning high-eff speakers, which are niche, is feeling like one is limited to low wattage amps, also niche. Having amps that can also play with any other speakers that happen to wander into the house can help defray the costs of swapping around gear.
Parker

**Kingsrule** · May 10, 2019, 11:46 AM

Cool running is a red flag for me...I have never heard a SS amp that runs cool sound good....like Soulution 511

**pdub** · May 10, 2019, 11:46 AM

Thanks Ken. I've seen the specs. I just wonder if Vince can comment yet on any particular brands or types of speakers they've happily driven given these possible permutations.

**Alpinist** · May 10, 2019, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Kingsrule

Cool running is a red flag for me...I have never heard a SS amp that runs cool sound good....like Soulution 511

Hi King,

I don’t think they exactly run cool. They put out 150 watts of heat at idle per amp. However, the heat sinks have a very large surface area, so I would suspect they do not feel very warm, which matches with what Mike is reporting.

I look forward to hearing them in person.

Ken

**Kingsrule** · May 10, 2019, 11:58 AM

Good point

**jhsu** · May 11, 2019, 11:33 PM

There isn’t enough space for the M500 amps in my current setup - it’s likely others are on the same boat. A new M300 series of amps would be nice products for MSB to add ! :-)

**Mike** · May 12, 2019, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by jhsu

There isn’t enough space for the M500 amps in my current setup - it’s likely others are on the same boat. A new M300 series of amps would be nice products for MSB to add ! :-)

Their footprint isn’t really super large. Substantial, but not ridiculously so.

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**GSOphile** · May 12, 2019, 07:41 AM

Mike, are these plugged directly into the wall or into somebody's (?) conditioner?

**Mike** · May 12, 2019, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by GSOphile

Mike, are these plugged directly into the wall or into somebody's (?) conditioner?

Wall

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**Mike** · September 17, 2019, 02:43 PM

MSB S500 in the house!

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**Alpinist** · September 17, 2019, 03:02 PM

Holy crap! Congrats!!! I didn’t know you were getting the S500. Now I’ll have to stop down at your store. In the meantime, I want a full report once they’re broken in.

Thanks,
Ken

**Mike** · September 18, 2019, 05:59 PM

I’ve been listening to this amp all day. The amp sounds exactly like the Select II DAC from MSB. Musical, full with delightful black backgrounds (one of the best SN ratios I’ve seen at 134db) and so natural with no hint of coloration. The amp has incredible transients. It’s dynamic with outstanding bass control. The amp never runs out of gas, never compresses and never changes it’s sonic character, no matter how hard I push it.

Have a listen...

https://youtu.be/UVbQ3f0QNjQ

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**UltraFast69** · September 19, 2019, 09:56 AM

So MSB DAC into the MSB amp, add a Phono and your done?

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**Mike** · September 19, 2019, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by UltraFast69

So MSB DAC into the MSB amp, add a Phono and your done?

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Yes indeed!

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**Ritmo** · September 20, 2019, 10:50 AM

Mike - You have quite a selection of amps in the store. Can’t wait to hear the new MSB amp.

**Kuoppis** · September 20, 2019, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

I’ve been listening to this amp all day. The amp sounds exactly like the Select II DAC from MSB. Musical, full with delightful black backgrounds (one of the best SN ratios I’ve seen at 134db) and so natural with no hint of coloration. The amp has incredible transients. It’s dynamic with outstanding bass control. The amp never runs out of gas, never compresses and never changes it’s sonic character, no matter how hard I push it.

Have a listen...

https://youtu.be/UVbQ3f0QNjQ

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Superb Mike, congrats!

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**Kuoppis** · September 20, 2019, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by UltraFast69

So MSB DAC into the MSB amp, add a Phono and your done?

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Sounds like it. Very nice.

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**Cincy2** · September 20, 2019, 05:54 PM

Mike,

What settings for gain and input impedance did you select with an MSB DAC input and why?

Cincy

**Mike Lavigne** · September 20, 2019, 07:30 PM

very nice Mike!

that is one amp i can't wait to hear. i'm sure it's a perfect match with the Select II.

i look forward to when you have enough time with it to contrast it with some other amps you have.

**Mike** · September 20, 2019, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Cincy2

Mike,

What settings for gain and input impedance did you select with an MSB DAC input and why?

Cincy

You have to use the 75ohm setting. I have the gain at high. Haven't played much with the gain. I find myself listening in the 70's on the VC and 80 is very loud in the 20 x 25 room that's open. It's absolutely perfect for the MSB DAC's. The amp sounds like the Select II DAC. Period. That's the review of this amp in a nutshell.

**Mike** · September 20, 2019, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne

very nice Mike!

that is one amp i can't wait to hear. i'm sure it's a perfect match with the Select II.

i look forward to when you have enough time with it to contrast it with some other amps you have.

Thanks Mike. With the MSB DAC's, it's the best match hands down compared to anything we've tried. Like I said above, the amp completely sounds like the Select II.

**CKKeung1** · September 21, 2019, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

You have to use the 75ohm setting. I have the gain at high. Haven't played much with the gain. I find myself listening in the 70's on the VC and 80 is very loud in the 20 x 25 room that's open. It's absolutely perfect for the MSB DAC's. The amp sounds like the Select II DAC. Period. That's the review of this amp in a nutshell.

I listened to M500 directly connected with Select DAC in 2 systems.
For both of them I liked the middle gain more.
The volume of the Select was in the 70+.

**joeinid** · September 21, 2019, 08:02 PM

Welcome!

**Alectiong** · January 16, 2021, 08:08 PM

I wonder what is the sonic difference between the stereoamp and the monoblocks. One costing one-half of the other, but with practically the same power specs on paper. wondering has anyone compared the two side by side?
Regards

**Mike** · January 16, 2021, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Alectiong

I wonder what is the sonic difference between the stereoamp and the monoblocks. One costing one-half of the other, but with practically the same power specs on paper. wondering has anyone compared the two side by side?
Regards

The monos gave a great sense of ease and seemed ready to pounce dynamically at a moments notice. Soundstage was also bigger with the monos. I tried to detect whether the stereo might have a different tonal presentation, but really couldn’t detect any.

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**Alectiong** · January 16, 2021, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

The monos gave a great sense of ease and seemed ready to pounce dynamically at a moments notice. Soundstage was also bigger with the monos. I tried to detect whether the stereo might have a different tonal presentation, but really couldn’t detect any.

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Thanks. That sounds familiar to when I upgraded my Vitus SS103 to the monoblocks SM103. Even though in hindsight it wasn’t really necessary for my room size and speakers.

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Thread: New MSB S500 and M500 Amplifiers

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