New Cascade DAC

**7ryder** · May 2, 2024, 06:32 PM

**Mike** · May 2, 2024, 06:40 PM

Mines on order! Can’t wait!

MSB kept their current tech for nearly 10 years! An eternity of great sound especially for digital.

Now they turn the page.

Very exciting to read this announcement today.

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**7ryder** · May 2, 2024, 06:56 PM

I look forward to hearing what you think of it. Can you share the MSRP?

**Mike** · May 2, 2024, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by 7ryder

I look forward to hearing what you think of it. Can you share the MSRP?

I know this is hard to comprehend, but it’s new tech and far exceeds the Select II with the digital director today.

Price?

Less expensive by nearly 50% of that previous combo.

$95k MSRP.

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**Mike** · May 2, 2024, 07:23 PM

https://youtu.be/e6ak04YxESE?si=W6-HQnZCn1gtFfpY

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**Mike** · May 2, 2024, 07:26 PM

Trade In, Trade Up your MSB products

There’s a little nugget of info in this.

Read carefully and you’ll see it.

Coming next year….

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**brodricj** · May 2, 2024, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

...Less expensive by nearly 50% of that previous combo.

I guess they won't be selling anything between now and then.

**brodricj** · May 2, 2024, 08:09 PM

Trade in, Trade up....if the Cascade is 50% cheaper than the current model, so it might be when you trade in at 90% of MSRP that they will be paying you?

**Mike** · May 2, 2024, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by brodricj

Trade in, Trade up....if the Cascade is 50% cheaper than the current model, so it might be when you trade in at 90% of MSRP that they will be paying you?

Did you read the trade up program posted above?

It doesn’t apply to the Cascade.

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**Bones13** · May 3, 2024, 07:21 AM

Interesting upgrades, and I’m sure there is more going on with new modules, etc.

They replaced the empty module bay space with built in analog inputs in the DAC, and moved all control functions to the Digital Director, now part of the package. Even less processing, and display noise in the DAC enclosure.

Volume knob back on top, conflicted on that. But I can see the point of getting that off the DAC enclosure.

Just stretched for my current Premier Stack, so I’ll be waiting on a windfall to upgrade. I would really appreciate the Analog inputs though.

I’m totally unsure, since the dimensions are not shown yet, but the footprint seen implies the size to be closer to the Premier than the Select or Reference.

Wonder if a new headphone amp is coming along, or if the other 3 are still sufficient.

**Mike** · May 3, 2024, 09:15 AM

Same modules. Same ability to swap modules.

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**still-one** · May 3, 2024, 10:53 AM

Sounds interesting. I may have to perform another A/B in my system to see if it surpasses the Select. The way it shows up on the MSB site it "appears" to fall between the Select and Premier.

**Mike** · May 3, 2024, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by still-one

Sounds interesting. I may have to perform another A/B in my system to see if it surpasses the Select. The way it shows up on the MSB site it "appears" to fall between the Select and Premier.

No more select.

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**TomS** · May 3, 2024, 11:50 AM

So Discrete -> Premier -> Cascade -> Sentinel (coming)?

Curious what the future then holds for Discrete and Premier, given such an architecture change.

**Mike** · May 3, 2024, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by TomS

So Discrete -> Premier -> Cascade -> Sentinel (coming)?

Curious what the future then holds for Discrete and Premier, given such an architecture change.

Exactly.

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**Bones13** · May 3, 2024, 01:14 PM

Modules the same, yes. Just no modular bays in the DAC box now, Digital Director comes with DAC, and Power Base (new single power connection cable). Modules go in DD, like the current ones.

**bryans** · May 3, 2024, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by TomS

So Discrete -> Premier -> Cascade -> Sentinel (coming)?

Curious what the future then holds for Discrete and Premier, given such an architecture change.

I missed this. So, the Cascade replaces the Reference, and a new Sentinel (flagship) is still coming? If this is the case that is a HUGE price gap between the Premier and Cascade.

I was hoping for a new Reference model given the new Cascade announcement.

**Mike** · May 3, 2024, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by bryans

I missed this. So, the Cascade replaces the Reference, and a new Sentinel (flagship) is still coming? If this is the case that is a HUGE price gap between the Premier and Cascade.

I was hoping for a new Reference model given the new Cascade announcement.

Replaces select 2

Premier plus DD closes the gap. That’s the thinking.

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**bryans** · May 3, 2024, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Replaces select 2

Premier plus DD closes the gap. That’s the thinking.

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Clearly I am missing something here. Prior to the Cascade announcement the lineup was Discrete -> Premier -> Reference -> Select II. If the new Cascade replaces the Select II the new lineup would be Discrete -> Premier -> Reference -> Cascade. MSB hasn't announced that the Reference is going away have they?

Now I would expect at some point MSB will come out with a Reference DAC replacement based on the lastest design.

**Mike** · May 3, 2024, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by bryans

Clearly I am missing something here. Prior to the Cascade announcement the lineup was Discrete -> Premier -> Reference -> Select II. If the new Cascade replaces the Select II the new lineup would be Discrete -> Premier -> Reference -> Cascade. MSB hasn't announced that the Reference is going away have they?

Now I would expect at some point MSB will come out with a Reference DAC replacement based on the lastest design.

Discrete - Premier - Ref - Cascade

No more select

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**bryans** · May 3, 2024, 08:03 PM

From MSB Website regarding present trade in:

Up to 90%? What can I actually expect?
Up to 90% when trading The Cascade DAC in “good condition” for The Sentinel DAC while in current production.
Up to 50% when trading The Select DAC with or without the Select Digital Director in “good condition” for The Sentinel DAC while in current production.
Up to 50% when trading The Reference DAC with or without the Reference Digital Director in “good condition” for The Cascade DAC, or The Sentinel DAC while in current production.
Up to 90% when trading The Premier DAC with or without the Premier Digital Director in “good condition” for The Cascade DAC, or The Sentinel DAC while in current production.
Up to 90% when trading The Discrete DAC in “good condition” for The Premier DAC, The Cascade DAC, or The Sentinel DAC while in current production.
90% when trading The Premier Headphone Amplifier for The Dynamic Headphone Amplifier, or The Electrostatic Headphone Amplifier while in current production.
Up to 90% when trading The S202 Amplifier for two M205 Amplifiers, The S500 Amplifier, or two M500 Amplifiers while in current production.
Up to 90% when trading two M205 Amplifiers for two M500 Amplifiers while in current production.
Up to 90% when trading The S500 Amplifier for two M500 Amplifiers while in current production.
Up to 90% when trading The S500 Amplifier for two M500 Amplifiers while in current production.
Any products that fall outside of the “good condition” parameters will be subject to a restocking fee.
Any products that predate our current product offering will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

I hope MSB rethinks this because those with Reference or Select DACs are getting taken to the woodshed.

The list price on a Select II DAC is $115,000 which means you get $57,500 on trade. You lose $57,500 in value with trade.
The list price on a Reference DAC is $54,500 which means you get $27,250 on trade. You lose $27,250 in value with trade.
The list price on a Premier DAC is $27,500 which means you get $24,750 on trade. You only lose $2,750 in value with trade.

Clearly MSB has to make a profit to stay in business which I agree with. But having roughly the same trade in value for the Reference and Premier is a tough pill to swallow.

**brodricj** · May 7, 2024, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by bryans

...Clearly MSB has to make a profit to stay in business which I agree with. But having roughly the same trade in value for the Reference and Premier is a tough pill to swallow.

It will be interesting to see if MSB re-sell traded units, and if so, how much markup they put on them. As a buyer, $57K for a Select II in good condition is an OK deal. But original Select II owners probably not happy if there's a flood of cheap used Select II's come on to the used market.

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