MSB S202 Power Amplifier

**Billt1** · December 5, 2020, 05:59 PM

We saw form post at the introduction 6 months ago but after that all quiet ? Nobody bought it and wants to talk about it?

**Alpinist** · December 5, 2020, 06:49 PM

I haven’t heard the S202 yet. I would expect it to be an excellent amp although I prefer monoblocks and that’s the way my system is configured. The S202 is designed to be used with and connected directly to MSB DACs as the adjustable input impedances are 75, 300 and 1,200 ohms.

Ken

**Mike** · December 5, 2020, 07:03 PM

I have one on the way.

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**Billt1** · December 5, 2020, 07:36 PM

Ken,
It appears to have adjustable impedances . Won't work with a VAC tube preamp with Recommended Output Load > 300 ohms to great effect?

**Mike** · December 5, 2020, 07:38 PM

it has 75, 300 or 1.2k input impedance adjustment options.

**BobK** · December 6, 2020, 08:13 PM

I'm anxious to hear how it compares to the Boulder 1161, Gryphon Essence, and Moon 860A V2 when paired with the MSB Discrete (w/ Powerbase) and the Magico A5's. BTW, why doesn't the Premier Powerbase show up as an option anymore for the Discrete on MSB's site?

**Mike** · December 6, 2020, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by BobK

I'm anxious to hear how it compares to the Boulder 1161, Gryphon Essence, and Moon 860A V2 when paired with the MSB Discrete (w/ Powerbase) and the Magico A5's. BTW, why doesn't the Premier Powerbase show up as an option anymore for the Discrete on MSB's site?

Great question. It still is. But frankly, you may want to consider just getting the two power supplies and invest in some nice power cables - unless you must have chassis matching.

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**Billt1** · December 7, 2020, 07:24 PM

So is what I am hearing it's mostly a no go if you want to pair it with a traditional preamp such as the VAC Signature Mk II SE? That would be unfortunate? I also do not see in the spec if it is stable down to 2 ohm? Will the low impedance do damage to either component or otherwise what problem might it create? It is a glorious piece and playing at my local dealer attached to the Select DAC it's serious gear.

**Mike** · December 7, 2020, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Billt1

So is what I am hearing it's mostly a no go if you want to pair it with a traditional preamp such as the VAC Signature Mk II SE? That would be unfortunate? I also do not see in the spec if it is stable down to 2 ohm? Will the low impedance do damage to either component or otherwise what problem might it create? It is a glorious piece and playing at my local dealer attached to the Select DAC it's serious gear.

Not true at all. It has selectable input impedance. Pair away with whatever you want.

**Billt1** · December 9, 2020, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Not true at all. It has selectable input impedance. Pair away with whatever you want.

So Mike I see last year you posted videos with both a VAC Master preamp and then later no preamp but direct to the MSB Premier DAC. Did you feel there was much of a sacrifice using the VAC preamp in the equation as opposed to Amp direct to DAC?

**Mike** · December 9, 2020, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Billt1

So Mike I see last year you posted videos with both a VAC Master preamp and then later no preamp but direct to the MSB Premier DAC. Did you feel there was much of a sacrifice using the VAC preamp in the equation as opposed to Amp direct to DAC?

With respect to the S500, I felt going direct from the MSB DAC was best to the MSB amp.

**Alpinist** · December 9, 2020, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Not true at all. It has selectable input impedance. Pair away with whatever you want.

Hi Mike,

Unfortunately no. There are many preamps with higher output impedances that the S202 will not work with, as the S202’s highest input impedance is very low at 1,200 ohms. Typical amplifiers have an input impedance of at least 10,000 ohms. The S202’s input impedances are optimized for a direct connection to MSB DACs and will produce wonderful synergy when used that way.

Ken

**BobK** · December 11, 2020, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Hi Mike,

Unfortunately no. There are many preamps with higher output impedances that the S202 will not work with, as the S202’s highest input impedance is very low at 1,200 ohms. Typical amplifiers have an input impedance of at least 10,000 ohms. The S202’s input impedances are optimized for a direct connection to MSB DACs and will produce wonderful synergy when used that way.

Ken

Hi Ken,

Why is this low impedance an issue with a typical preamp? Does it force the preamp to attenuate the signal too much and operate at the less accurate/low end of the volume control? Sorry, just trying to understand. Thank you.

**Mike** · December 11, 2020, 01:35 PM

MSB told me the amps are universal to be driven by any dac or preamp.

I will get the details and report back.

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**Alpinist** · December 11, 2020, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

MSB told me the amps are universal to be driven by any dac or preamp.

I will get the details and report back.

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Hi Mike,

As a general rule of thumb, the input impedance of the amplifier should be at minimum 10 times the output impedance of the preamp for optimal performance and sound quality. For instance, Soulution amplifiers have a very low input impedance (511 = 2,000 ohms). Consequently, Soulution preamps sound best with their amps because they have a correspondingly low output impedance (525 = 10 ohms). The ratio is 200 times. The input impedance of the MSB S202 amp is at maximum only 1,200 ohms, hence the limitation. An ARC REF6SE preamp has a balanced output impedance of 600 ohms. Not a good match for the MSB S202 amp.

Ken

**Billt1** · December 11, 2020, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

MSB told me the amps are universal to be driven by any dac or preamp.

I will get the details and report back.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Ok so I did a home S202 demo . I screwed up and didn't keep it very long or try the DAC to amp direct . My fault ,the dealer wasn't pushing me to rush it right back but I was so excited by what I heard I ran back with the amp and a deposit to get one on order as quick as I could. I did however take the time to reach out to VAC and MSB in regards to impedance. VAC said the S202 was within the parameters of proper operation for my Signature MkII SE preamp. The reason I believed a preamp was necessary is I have more than one source. After a very nice and detailed conversation with MSB it is most likely I can replace my preamp with a passive switch which they also had a recommendation for. Frankly the amp sounded so dam good going through the preamp that if that's the best I can do I am more than well satisfied. My other source has enough gain and a volume control as well so the passive switch only being a few hundred dollars is an easy try once I get the amp. This is an amazing amp and on the plus side it's beautiful as well.

**Alpinist** · December 11, 2020, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Billt1

Ok so I did a home S202 demo . I screwed up and didn't keep it very long or try the DAC to amp direct . My fault ,the dealer wasn't pushing me to rush it right back but I was so excited by what I heard I ran back with the amp and a deposit to get one on order as quick as I could. I did however take the time to reach out to VAC and MSB in regards to impedance. VAC said the S202 was within the parameters of proper operation for my Signature MkII SE preamp. The reason I believed a preamp was necessary is I have more than one source. After a very nice and detailed conversation with MSB it is most likely I can replace my preamp with a passive switch which they also had a recommendation for. Frankly the amp sounded so dam good going through the preamp that if that's the best I can do I am more than well satisfied. My other source has enough gain and a volume control as well so the passive switch only being a few hundred dollars is an easy try once I get the amp. This is an amazing amp and on the plus side it's beautiful as well.

Output impedance is pretty low on the VAC Signature MkII SE Preamp, less than 150 Ohms, which equals greater than 8 times if you use the 1,200 ohm input impedance setting on the S202. Don’t use the lower impedance settings.

Congrats!
Ken

**FDPDK** · December 12, 2020, 09:36 AM

Congratulations with your new MSB Amp.

**Mike** · December 12, 2020, 09:42 AM

Congrats Bill. I’m not surprised!

**joeinid** · December 16, 2020, 10:53 AM

**Alpinist** · December 16, 2020, 11:23 AM

Beautiful amplifier. The dealer doesn’t know what he’s talking about though. The use of negative feedback or lack thereof, impacts distortion, not signal to noise ratio.

Ken

**Kingsrule** · December 16, 2020, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Beautiful amplifier. The dealer doesn’t know what he’s talking about though. The use of negative feedback or lack thereof, impacts distortion, not signal to noise ratio.
the
Ken

Not only that Ken but the dealer doesn't even know how to un-crate the amp..LOL

**brodricj** · December 17, 2020, 10:36 AM

And I had a dealer once who didn't even know how to turn the amp on.

p.s. looks like the MSB carpenter went to the same carpentry school as the Magico carpenter.

**Billt1** · December 17, 2020, 10:46 AM

There are many high knowledge audiophiles on this site and I much enjoy the input I see/hear. Although I use many forms of due diligence before major purchases and almost always include home demos, this form is high value, thank you. I ordered a black one and as with most things in demand these days it will take several weeks to get.

**Kingsrule** · December 17, 2020, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by brodricj

And I had a dealer once who didn't even know how to turn the amp on.

p.s. looks like the MSB carpenter went to the same carpentry school as the Magico carpenter.

Magico crates (and internal packaging) should be so good....

**Mike** · December 22, 2020, 05:11 PM

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**Ritmo** · December 23, 2020, 06:53 AM

What are you driving with the S202?

**Alpinist** · December 23, 2020, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Ritmo

What are you driving with the S202?

Hi Mike,

Can you imagine how it would sound the the Select II DAC and the Magico M2’s? Would love to hear that combo!

Ken

**Mike** · December 24, 2020, 03:00 PM

Vivid Giya G2 S2 + MSB S202 + MSB Select II - YouTube

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**Billt1** · December 24, 2020, 04:46 PM

IMG_3202[1].jpg

Arrived today ,Merry Christmas to me . S202

**BobK** · December 24, 2020, 04:50 PM

Thanks for sharing, Mike! I've been thinking about this combo except with the Reference dac. Looking forward to hearing it in person. Happy Holidays to you and your family!

**BobK** · December 24, 2020, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Billt1

IMG_3202[1].jpg

Arrived today ,Merry Christmas to me . S202

Congratulations! Enjoy!

**still-one** · December 24, 2020, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Billt1

IMG_3202[1].jpg

Arrived today ,Merry Christmas to me . S202

Boy is that a great Xmas present.

**Mike** · December 24, 2020, 06:46 PM

One more:

Vivid Giya G2 S2 + MSB S202 + MSB Select II - YouTube

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**KeithR** · December 24, 2020, 07:02 PM

Ho ho ho!

**Alpinist** · December 24, 2020, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Billt1

IMG_3202[1].jpg

Arrived today ,Merry Christmas to me . S202

Wow, congrats! That is an amazing Christmas present. Well timed too.

Merry Christmas and enjoy!

Ken

**FDPDK** · December 25, 2020, 05:11 AM

Billt1 congratulations with your Christmas present.

**nonesup** · December 25, 2020, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Hi Mike,

Unfortunately no. There are many preamps with higher output impedances that the S202 will not work with, as the S202’s highest input impedance is very low at 1,200 ohms. Typical amplifiers have an input impedance of at least 10,000 ohms. The S202’s input impedances are optimized for a direct connection to MSB DACs and will produce wonderful synergy when used that way.

Ken

Totally agree. Pairing with my AR Ref 5SE which has a balanced output impedance of 600 Ohms must be horrible.

**Mike** · December 25, 2020, 08:18 AM

Congrats Bill. Let us know how it pairs with the Premier.

**Billt1** · December 25, 2020, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Congrats Bill. Let us know how it pairs with the Premier.

I will offer a mini review after a week of settling in. I will experiment with MSB Premier DAC direct to amp soon as well. Currently I am running Premier to VAC signature pre to S202 and with zero break-in time I am trying to contain my excitement.

**BobK** · January 4, 2021, 12:38 PM

Listening impressions so far?

**Billt1** · January 4, 2021, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by BobK

Listening impressions so far?

I was going to wait to do a more comprehensive review until I had done some further experimentation but since you asked. In short, I am flabbergasted. Like I said I was going to wait until I had tried different configurations which to date I have not. Those other configurations being a direct connection from the MSB Premier DAC to the S202 and the second being a passive switch from Goldpoint in place of my VAC Signature Mk II SE preamp. The break-in curve for this amp seemed almost nonexistent which lead me to instant satisfaction and greatly slowed down my desire to experiment. As I told MSB, if this is the best I ever get from this amp I will still remain in Heaven. If at a later date I find improvement by going DAC direct or by using a passive switch it will only be gravy . The standard accolades don’t apply but then they all do , musical , accurate, fast, large. But none of those really describe it . It just sounds real. I keep trying to sort out in my head what separates this Amp from every amp I have owned and the majority of amps I have heard in dealer showrooms and High End shows. I keep coming back to the same conclusion, decay. The decay just sounds right. There is no overly controlled truncation or artificial extension either. I was very happy with the very capable amp I had just purchased 6 months ago and if the dealer hadn't dropped an S202 off at my house to try I never would have known just how good it was. Once I did I couldn't wait to own one. I will follow up at a later date after I experiment with configurations but for now I just don't see any shortcomings only pleasure .

**BobK** · January 4, 2021, 07:26 PM

Thanks for sharing, Billt1! I hope I can listen to it soon. So happy to hear it has worked out so well for you. Sounds like a very special piece. Just curious why you are using the Goldpoint? Is it for your phono input?

**Billt1** · January 4, 2021, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by BobK

Thanks for sharing, Billt1! I hope I can listen to it soon. So happy to hear it has worked out so well for you. Sounds like a very special piece. Just curious why you are using the Goldpoint? Is it for your phono input?

In this system I also interface with home theater .The VAC preamp has a Home theater bypass . After very informative discussions with my Dealer and MSB I was given some suggestions . They tell me the Premier DAC has a very capable Preamp and of course the HT Processor has one as well. Having the additional VAC preamp may or may not be a necessary redundancy. The Goldpoint is just a passive switch and may replace the VAC preamp. It sounds so good right now I feel no need to rush. I will order it as it's only $400 and cheap enough to give it a whirl. If it sounds better with the VAC in place I'll keep it. Like I said, if this is the best the system has to offer I am more than delighted

**MPW** · January 4, 2021, 10:34 PM

Beautiful room and fantastic equipment. You don’t often see Wilson’s pulled out from the front wall. Well done! Bet it sounds great.

**BobK** · January 4, 2021, 10:44 PM

I second that...gorgeous room!

**kzhtoo** · January 4, 2021, 11:12 PM

Beautiful and cozy! Love it.

**FDPDK** · January 5, 2021, 11:59 AM

Its a great looking room .

**ravendog** · January 31, 2021, 10:31 PM

Any updates on S202 impressions?

Thanks.

**Billt1** · February 2, 2021, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by ravendog

Any updates on S202 impressions?

Thanks.

My first impressions remain unchanged. I am always hesitant to state an opinion quickly after setting up a new piece of gear as often times the settling in softens the enthusiasm. Not this time. Not only is it a Steller performer sonically and visually the billet aluminum casework remains almost cool to the touch. That may sound inconsequential but I have amplifiers that change the room temperature . I did try the Premier DAC direct to S202 and I will say it was different. Was it better than going through the VAC preamp? Maybe maybe not. It was close enough I didn't feel I was shorting myself by using the preamp and It makes interfacing with other sources easy. So at least for now it stays. If the Premier was my only source I probably wouldn't use a preamp.

Thread: MSB S202 Power Amplifier

MSB S202 Power Amplifier

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