Thread: MSB new pricing model

Originally Posted by seriouslyhifi

I believe that MSB will have only 1 option for every model of there various models. Select2, Reference, Premier and Discrete. As they are now building only the most popular version of each model and it will only be sold as that version only with no changes. With that they have optimised there production run and the only options will be there choice of Input Modules. Very courageous and each of the models bundle pricing has come down a decent amount and you now only have to choose between the 4 models and each model is only available as the best in its class with all previous upgrades are now a part of each model. Vey intelligent and with a better retail price by a decent chunk MSB has become extremely attractive at every price point.

Sounds reasonable. Interesting to see whether that will be the case.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

It’s also not fair to tell these previous buyers that they shouldn’t feel a thing if MSB ends up doing that (it’s mind boggling TBH, this is basic human nature and common sense). If there’s a Select II, Reference or even Premier owner that would be perfectly happy, I’d like to meet that gentleman or lady.

i have a different agenda. i have a full meal deal Select II so every option for a 2 channel variant. and the 10 year warranty and upgrade proposition was important to me.

so my priority is the health of MSB as a company. my 10 year plan has little value if MSB is not around to support it. it's naive to think that a maker of high end digital products is impervious to the challenges of this small market. so they need to be agile and make adjustments to maintain their market inertia, and i will have faith that in doing that and staying relevant and healthy that they are protecting my investment in the big picture. i have zero doubt that the perspective of the current MSB owners is a significant factor in their decisions. it's the foundation of everything they have done over the years.

i don't know the details of this change myself, so am anxious to see the facts too, like others.

let's see what happens, then ponder how that looks, keeping the long view in mind, before we get our panties in a bunch.

just my 2 cents, YMMV.

Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne

i have a different agenda. i have a full meal deal Select II so every option for a 2 channel variant. and the 10 year warranty and upgrade proposition was important to me.

so my priority is the health of MSB as a company. my 10 year plan has little value if MSB is not around to support it. it's naive to think that a maker of high end digital products is impervious to the challenges of this small market. so they need to be agile and make adjustments to maintain their market inertia, and i will have faith that in doing that and staying relevant and healthy that they are protecting my investment in the big picture. i have zero doubt that the perspective of the current MSB owners is a significant factor in their decisions. it's the foundation of everything they have done over the years.

i don't know the details of this change myself, so am anxious to see the facts too, like others.

let's see what happens, then ponder how that looks, keeping the long view in mind, before we get our panties in a bunch.

just my 2 cents, YMMV.

Hi Mike,

These are fair points. With the company’s new factory and tooling machinery, they have a larger monthly nut to cover. Their long-term financial health is an important issue.

Ken

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Hi Mike,

These are fair points. With the company’s new factory and tooling machinery, they have a larger monthly nut to cover. Their long-term financial health is an important issue.

Ken

The same is true for all high end companies. I'm glad to see that ARC has broken free of being part of an audio conglomerate and is once again in charge of their own destiny. Too many audio companies get folded into large conglomerates and then get bought and sold like underwear at a yard sale. When companies tell you that your new electronic whizz bang unit is "future proof," I always take that with a grain of salt. Companies come and companies go for a variety of reasons which makes long term warranties and marketing phrases of being "future proof" promises at best.

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

When products get older, manufacturers reduce prices to keep up with the market. As simple as that.

In the last year before release of a new car model, you’ll get full options for the price of the base model (at launch).

Unfortunately, sales volume will drive the renewal cycle. And MSB put themselves in a tough spot with an optimistic pricing strategy.

what on earth are you talking about? there has never been audio equipment that is analogous to end of cycle cars. this equipment isn't even end of cycle.

I must say, that sounds a tiny bit like a MSB owner ouch .

Here you have an example of exactly that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

I must say, that sounds a tiny bit like a MSB owner ouch .

Here you have an example of exactly that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hi Kuoppis,

Is your goal to tweak the MSB owners?

Ken

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Hi Kuoppis,

Is your goal to tweak the MSB owners?

Ken

Yes Ken, but only a bit .

Unfortunately, I’m speaking out of experience. A couple years back I was furious about another company’s portfolio approach. I also think MSB gear is good, but heavily overpriced. Based on Cournot’s law, it’s unsustainable. The market will always find the balance between price and value (demand).

But I think it was already stated in this thread: High end audio is not an investment, there’s no future proof path, and you’re always going to bleed money. The more high end you go, the more brutal the depreciation is going to be. That’s hard to stomach for people probably otherwise smart with their money. But it’s the price of admission to this crazy hobby, no-one is spared.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Yes Ken, but only a bit .

Unfortunately, I’m speaking out of experience. A couple years back I was furious about another company’s portfolio approach. And I also think MSB gear is good, but heavily overpriced.

But I think it was already stated in this thread: High end audio is not an investment, there’s no future proof path, and you’re always going to bleed money. The more high end you go, the more brutal the depreciation is going to be. That’s hard to stomach for people probably otherwise smart with their money. But it’s the price of admission to this crazy hobby, no-one is spared.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ha, I’m glad we got that cleared up!

There’s a lot of truth in your last paragraph.

Ken

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Ha, I’m glad we got that cleared up!

There’s a lot of truth in your last paragraph.

Ken

It’s more bearable when it hits others, but hurts if you’re in the hole yourself.

Everyone in the hobby for more than a decade has probably been burned at least once.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

That other company by any chance a loudspeakers company?

It’s difficult to be smart with the money in this hobby. I just always assume minimum of 50% loss from the time I buy until the time I sell and treat it as entertainment. Just don’t tell my wife about it. Lol

Kzhtoo, that would just be one example .

And I think you got it right. It’s not about being cautions and safe, as with investments. It’s about getting the kicks out of your system, whatever it is. Still hurts when you’re cutting something loose at half of what you put in.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

It goes without saying I love my discrete. Hours and hours of dynamic, fatigue free music even though I stream 100% of the time (some people feel Renderer V2 input is slightly inferior to pro USB module).

I will certainly try the Pro USB input module on my Select DAC if and when I move to a new server where the preferred connection is USB (e.g. Taiko Extreme or Aurender N20).

Ken

FWIW, I received an email from MSB saying they are updating their site and (supposedly) a new price list will be available at the site

Originally Posted by Adyc

We are not talking about car industry here. More fair comparison is the other audio manufacturers. For example, MBL haven’t refreshed their Reference Line for a long time. But the prices keep increasing. I would be over the moon if MBL decreases the prices of 101X. Unfortunately, it is the opposite.

MBL is also not in the habit of churning products either which is good. Too many speaker and cable companies keep "replacement" products that undercuts the value of the used market.

Duplicate

Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne

i have a different agenda. i have a full meal deal Select II so every option for a 2 channel variant. and the 10 year warranty and upgrade proposition was important to me.

so my priority is the health of MSB as a company. my 10 year plan has little value if MSB is not around to support it. it's naive to think that a maker of high end digital products is impervious to the challenges of this small market. so they need to be agile and make adjustments to maintain their market inertia, and i will have faith that in doing that and staying relevant and healthy that they are protecting my investment in the big picture. i have zero doubt that the perspective of the current MSB owners is a significant factor in their decisions. it's the foundation of everything they have done over the years.

i don't know the details of this change myself, so am anxious to see the facts too, like others.

let's see what happens, then ponder how that looks, keeping the long view in mind, before we get our panties in a bunch.

just my 2 cents, YMMV.

Finally a response that is reasonable and not self serving - well done Mike.

Reading this thread, I am completely amused at all the complaining that MSB is going to reduce prices. That is a good thing.

Originally Posted by seriouslyhifi

No change in any Model is confirmed and they have no intention of changing anything at this moment.
The only thing they are doing is give no more choices in every model they manufacture (4 models in total as we all know) but producing only one variation in each, which was their best and because of better production techniques and better efficiency now, they have reduced their price of each of their models by a decent margin and passed on the benefits to us end customers. The Reference DAC will now be available with Femto 33, their best Pre-amp and single Power Supply, the Select 2 with only the Femto 33 and Mono Power Supply, the Premier with only the Femto 93, the Premier Power Supply and better Pre-amp and the Discrete will be as it used to be. A substantial price drop for each of these models as production becomes more efficient and increases quantity. By the way they are backordered by 4 to 6 weeks for most of their models at the moment. No change in any model confirmed.

Do you know all this for a fact? Do you work for MSB or are you a MSB dealer?

Ken

Originally Posted by seriouslyhifi

I have been told this by people who know this limited knowledge yet. I have no idea on pricing though and waiting for what they declare finally when available. It is also common knowledge on their Facebook page that they have shifted to a new factory, installed new CNC machines and so on, so that is on the public domain. As far as business goes if they pull this off kudos to them. Let us wait for final answers when available and then take individual calls.

Everyone knows about MSB’s new factory and CNC machines from their Facebook page. What I was specifically referring to was that you stated in your first post that the price of each of MSB’s DAC models would be substantially reduced due to manufacturing savings from eliminating the options on each model. I was under the impression that the final pricing decisions for each individual DAC model were not yet finalized and that some models may not receive any price reduction.

Ken

Originally Posted by seriouslyhifi

Apologise but have no firm info on pricing, but was only told that all 4 DAC model prices will be reduced and will now come in only 1 incarnation for each model. Let us wait to hear the actual facts. The other products they manufacture I have no idea at all.

Not sure if going to one incarnation for each model is the way I would like them to move. I would neither require nor want to pay for pre-amp functions, usb or single ended outputs for example. I hope to perform another A/B with the Reference unit early this year. Pricing would have impact on whether I even consider borrowing a unit again.

Originally Posted by still-one

Not sure if going to one incarnation for each model is the way I would like them to move. I would neither require nor want to pay for pre-amp functions, usb or single ended outputs for example. I hope to perform another A/B with the Reference unit early this year. Pricing would have impact on whether I even consider borrowing a unit again.

Hi Jim,

You will still need their preamp module even if you use an external preamp with their DACs. You have to choose between balanced or single-ended outputs. It’s been this way for awhile. You will still have the choice of which digital input modules you want (Pro USB, Renderer V2, AES/EBU, S/PDIF, Pro ISL). You will no longer have the choice of the level of clock, number of power bases and level of preamp module. Almost everyone orders the same options on these items, the ones that maximize performance. There could be a decrease in the price of the Reference DAC. Stay tuned.

Best,
Ken

So do we know what the new prices are? Can't find anything

$24.5k - Premier (clock 93 and power base now standard)

$49.5k - Reference (clock 33 and preamp now standard)

I believe the renderer still is a $2k option for all dacs. There are no changes to the Discrete I’m told.

Originally Posted by vortrex

A MSB dealer had Discrete with the streamer module new for $7k. Not sure if that’s an indication of the new pricing.

The Discrete is not changing in price.

And I would sure have loved to have seen that price of $7k because that’s a big no no.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro