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  1. #51

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    I believe that MSB will have only 1 option for every model of there various models. Select2, Reference, Premier and Discrete. As they are now building only the most popular version of each model and it will only be sold as that version only with no changes. With that they have optimised there production run and the only options will be there choice of Input Modules. Very courageous and each of the models bundle pricing has come down a decent amount and you now only have to choose between the 4 models and each model is only available as the best in its class with all previous upgrades are now a part of each model. Vey intelligent and with a better retail price by a decent chunk MSB has become extremely attractive at every price point.

  2. #52

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by seriouslyhifi View Post
    I believe that MSB will have only 1 option for every model of there various models. Select2, Reference, Premier and Discrete. As they are now building only the most popular version of each model and it will only be sold as that version only with no changes. With that they have optimised there production run and the only options will be there choice of Input Modules. Very courageous and each of the models bundle pricing has come down a decent amount and you now only have to choose between the 4 models and each model is only available as the best in its class with all previous upgrades are now a part of each model. Vey intelligent and with a better retail price by a decent chunk MSB has become extremely attractive at every price point.
    Sounds reasonable. Interesting to see whether that will be the case.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    ďLifeís too short to listen to bad audio.Ē

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Soulution 520 preamp with phono/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist MK II/ Soulution 511/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Semi-active Lansche Audio 4.2 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ 2x Audioquest Thunder HD for LS/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata AlphaHC (x2)+Alpha+Alpha Analogue+Alpha Digital/ Finite Elemente Pagode/ Stillpoints Ultra SS.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  3. #53
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post
    Itís also not fair to tell these previous buyers that they shouldnít feel a thing if MSB ends up doing that (itís mind boggling TBH, this is basic human nature and common sense). If thereís a Select II, Reference or even Premier owner that would be perfectly happy, Iíd like to meet that gentleman or lady.
    i have a different agenda. i have a full meal deal Select II so every option for a 2 channel variant. and the 10 year warranty and upgrade proposition was important to me.

    so my priority is the health of MSB as a company. my 10 year plan has little value if MSB is not around to support it. it's naive to think that a maker of high end digital products is impervious to the challenges of this small market. so they need to be agile and make adjustments to maintain their market inertia, and i will have faith that in doing that and staying relevant and healthy that they are protecting my investment in the big picture. i have zero doubt that the perspective of the current MSB owners is a significant factor in their decisions. it's the foundation of everything they have done over the years.

    i don't know the details of this change myself, so am anxious to see the facts too, like others.

    let's see what happens, then ponder how that looks, keeping the long view in mind, before we get our panties in a bunch.

    just my 2 cents, YMMV.

  4. #54
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    i have a different agenda. i have a full meal deal Select II so every option for a 2 channel variant. and the 10 year warranty and upgrade proposition was important to me.

    so my priority is the health of MSB as a company. my 10 year plan has little value if MSB is not around to support it. it's naive to think that a maker of high end digital products is impervious to the challenges of this small market. so they need to be agile and make adjustments to maintain their market inertia, and i will have faith that in doing that and staying relevant and healthy that they are protecting my investment in the big picture. i have zero doubt that the perspective of the current MSB owners is a significant factor in their decisions. it's the foundation of everything they have done over the years.

    i don't know the details of this change myself, so am anxious to see the facts too, like others.

    let's see what happens, then ponder how that looks, keeping the long view in mind, before we get our panties in a bunch.

    just my 2 cents, YMMV.
    Hi Mike,

    These are fair points. With the companyís new factory and tooling machinery, they have a larger monthly nut to cover. Their long-term financial health is an important issue.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000ís with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  5. #55

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Hi Mike,

    These are fair points. With the companyís new factory and tooling machinery, they have a larger monthly nut to cover. Their long-term financial health is an important issue.

    Ken
    The same is true for all high end companies. I'm glad to see that ARC has broken free of being part of an audio conglomerate and is once again in charge of their own destiny. Too many audio companies get folded into large conglomerates and then get bought and sold like underwear at a yard sale. When companies tell you that your new electronic whizz bang unit is "future proof," I always take that with a grain of salt. Companies come and companies go for a variety of reasons which makes long term warranties and marketing phrases of being "future proof" promises at best.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  6. #56

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    i have a different agenda. i have a full meal deal Select II so every option for a 2 channel variant. and the 10 year warranty and upgrade proposition was important to me.

    so my priority is the health of MSB as a company. my 10 year plan has little value if MSB is not around to support it. it's naive to think that a maker of high end digital products is impervious to the challenges of this small market. so they need to be agile and make adjustments to maintain their market inertia, and i will have faith that in doing that and staying relevant and healthy that they are protecting my investment in the big picture. i have zero doubt that the perspective of the current MSB owners is a significant factor in their decisions. it's the foundation of everything they have done over the years.

    i don't know the details of this change myself, so am anxious to see the facts too, like others.

    let's see what happens, then ponder how that looks, keeping the long view in mind, before we get our panties in a bunch.

    just my 2 cents, YMMV.
    Absolutely, Mike. No one here wants to see MSB goes under. They will have to do whatís right for the company and what the direction they want to take. They just wonít be able to make everyone happy with this problem.

    I understand the promise of future proofing is what made many people get onboard and they were able to sell many Reference and Select II level products. But it sounds to me like the buyers at that level hit a plateau and the prospective solution is somewhat contradictory with their future-proofing business model. If it were like ARC, all they need to do is packaging some incremental improvements in a modified chassis and give it a different name or mark II label. Come to think of it though, that was what MSB did before their latest iteration of the DACs, so there must have been something about it that they didnít like.

    In any case, I have no beef in this whatsoever. I have a discrete (never wanted to buy a DAC above $10k price point) and reportedly no change is being considered for discrete level offering. Even if they did, I wouldnít lose any sleep over Discrete getting down to $7-8k base price. I already got enough enjoyment out of my discrete. Again, my point in my previous post is for people to merely respect the view and feeling of Ref. and Select II owners. Itís $100,000 range investment after all (investment as in future proofing).

  7. #57
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    When products get older, manufacturers reduce prices to keep up with the market. As simple as that.

    In the last year before release of a new car model, youíll get full options for the price of the base model (at launch).

    Unfortunately, sales volume will drive the renewal cycle. And MSB put themselves in a tough spot with an optimistic pricing strategy.
    what on earth are you talking about? there has never been audio equipment that is analogous to end of cycle cars. this equipment isn't even end of cycle.
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Premier DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> YG Acoustics Hailey 2.2

  8. #58

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    I must say, that sounds a tiny bit like a MSB owner ouch MSB new pricing model.

    Here you have an example of exactly that.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    ďLifeís too short to listen to bad audio.Ē

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Soulution 520 preamp with phono/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist MK II/ Soulution 511/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Semi-active Lansche Audio 4.2 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ 2x Audioquest Thunder HD for LS/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata AlphaHC (x2)+Alpha+Alpha Analogue+Alpha Digital/ Finite Elemente Pagode/ Stillpoints Ultra SS.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  9. #59
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    I must say, that sounds a tiny bit like a MSB owner ouch MSB new pricing model.

    Here you have an example of exactly that.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Hi Kuoppis,

    Is your goal to tweak the MSB owners?

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000ís with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  10. #60

    MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Hi Kuoppis,

    Is your goal to tweak the MSB owners?

    Ken
    Yes Ken, but only a bit MSB new pricing model.

    Unfortunately, Iím speaking out of experience. A couple years back I was furious about another companyís portfolio approach. I also think MSB gear is good, but heavily overpriced. Based on Cournotís law, itís unsustainable. The market will always find the balance between price and value (demand).

    But I think it was already stated in this thread: High end audio is not an investment, thereís no future proof path, and youíre always going to bleed money. The more high end you go, the more brutal the depreciation is going to be. Thatís hard to stomach for people probably otherwise smart with their money. But itís the price of admission to this crazy hobby, no-one is spared.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    ďLifeís too short to listen to bad audio.Ē

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Soulution 520 preamp with phono/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist MK II/ Soulution 511/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Semi-active Lansche Audio 4.2 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ 2x Audioquest Thunder HD for LS/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata AlphaHC (x2)+Alpha+Alpha Analogue+Alpha Digital/ Finite Elemente Pagode/ Stillpoints Ultra SS.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  11. #61
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Yes Ken, but only a bit MSB new pricing model.

    Unfortunately, Iím speaking out of experience. A couple years back I was furious about another companyís portfolio approach. And I also think MSB gear is good, but heavily overpriced.

    But I think it was already stated in this thread: High end audio is not an investment, thereís no future proof path, and youíre always going to bleed money. The more high end you go, the more brutal the depreciation is going to be. Thatís hard to stomach for people probably otherwise smart with their money. But itís the price of admission to this crazy hobby, no-one is spared.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ha, Iím glad we got that cleared up!

    Thereís a lot of truth in your last paragraph.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000ís with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  12. #62

    MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Ha, Iím glad we got that cleared up!

    Thereís a lot of truth in your last paragraph.

    Ken
    Itís more bearable when it hits others, but hurts if youíre in the hole yourself.

    Everyone in the hobby for more than a decade has probably been burned at least once.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    ďLifeís too short to listen to bad audio.Ē

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Soulution 520 preamp with phono/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist MK II/ Soulution 511/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Semi-active Lansche Audio 4.2 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ 2x Audioquest Thunder HD for LS/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata AlphaHC (x2)+Alpha+Alpha Analogue+Alpha Digital/ Finite Elemente Pagode/ Stillpoints Ultra SS.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  13. #63

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Yes Ken, but only a bit MSB new pricing model.

    Unfortunately, Iím speaking out of experience. A couple years back I was furious about another companyís portfolio approach. I also think MSB gear is good, but heavily overpriced. Based on Cournotís law, itís unsustainable. The market will always find the balance between price and value (demand).

    But I think it was already stated in this thread: High end audio is not an investment, thereís no future proof path, and youíre always going to bleed money. The more high end you go, the more brutal the depreciation is going to be. Thatís hard to stomach for people probably otherwise smart with their money. But itís the price of admission to this crazy hobby, no-one is spared.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    That other company by any chance a loudspeakers company? MSB new pricing model

    Itís difficult to be smart with the money in this hobby. I just always assume minimum of 50% loss from the time I buy until the time I sell and treat it as entertainment. Just donít tell my wife about it. Lol

  14. #64

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post
    That other company by any chance a loudspeakers company? MSB new pricing model

    Itís difficult to be smart with the money in this hobby. I just always assume minimum of 50% loss from the time I buy until the time I sell and treat it as entertainment. Just donít tell my wife about it. Lol
    Kzhtoo, that would just be one example MSB new pricing model.

    And I think you got it right. Itís not about being cautions and safe, as with investments. Itís about getting the kicks out of your system, whatever it is. Still hurts when youíre cutting something loose at half of what you put in.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    ďLifeís too short to listen to bad audio.Ē

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Soulution 520 preamp with phono/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist MK II/ Soulution 511/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Semi-active Lansche Audio 4.2 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ 2x Audioquest Thunder HD for LS/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata AlphaHC (x2)+Alpha+Alpha Analogue+Alpha Digital/ Finite Elemente Pagode/ Stillpoints Ultra SS.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  15. #65

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Kzhtoo, that would just be one example MSB new pricing model.

    And I think you got it right. Itís not about being cautions and safe, as with investments. Itís about getting the kicks out of your system, whatever it is. Still hurts when youíre cutting something loose at half of what you put in.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    It goes without saying I love my discrete. Hours and hours of dynamic, fatigue free music even though I stream 100% of the time (some people feel Renderer V2 input is slightly inferior to pro USB module).

  16. #66
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post
    It goes without saying I love my discrete. Hours and hours of dynamic, fatigue free music even though I stream 100% of the time (some people feel Renderer V2 input is slightly inferior to pro USB module).
    I will certainly try the Pro USB input module on my Select DAC if and when I move to a new server where the preferred connection is USB (e.g. Taiko Extreme or Aurender N20).

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000ís with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  17. #67
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    FWIW, I received an email from MSB saying they are updating their site and (supposedly) a new price list will be available at the site
    Rob
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  18. #68
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by rbbert View Post
    FWIW, I received an email from MSB saying they are updating their site and (supposedly) a new price list will be available at the site
    Any change to the Transport range?
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  19. #69
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by Adyc View Post
    We are not talking about car industry here. More fair comparison is the other audio manufacturers. For example, MBL havenít refreshed their Reference Line for a long time. But the prices keep increasing. I would be over the moon if MBL decreases the prices of 101X. Unfortunately, it is the opposite.
    MBL is also not in the habit of churning products either which is good. Too many speaker and cable companies keep "replacement" products that undercuts the value of the used market.
    Jim

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  20. #70
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Duplicate
    Jim

    D'Agostino Momentum M-400's & HD Pre-amp
    Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
    Digital: dCS Vivaldi DAC, Clock & Upsampler
    Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
    Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
    Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
    Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest

  21. #71

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    No change in any Model is confirmed and they have no intention of changing anything at this moment.
    The only thing they are doing is give no more choices in every model they manufacture (4 models in total as we all know) but producing only one variation in each, which was their best and because of better production techniques and better efficiency now, they have reduced their price of each of their models by a decent margin and passed on the benefits to us end customers. The Reference DAC will now be available with Femto 33, their best Pre-amp and single Power Supply, the Select 2 with only the Femto 33 and Mono Power Supply, the Premier with only the Femto 93, the Premier Power Supply and better Pre-amp and the Discrete will be as it used to be. A substantial price drop for each of these models as production becomes more efficient and increases quantity. By the way they are backordered by 4 to 6 weeks for most of their models at the moment. No change in any model confirmed.

  22. #72
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    i have a different agenda. i have a full meal deal Select II so every option for a 2 channel variant. and the 10 year warranty and upgrade proposition was important to me.

    so my priority is the health of MSB as a company. my 10 year plan has little value if MSB is not around to support it. it's naive to think that a maker of high end digital products is impervious to the challenges of this small market. so they need to be agile and make adjustments to maintain their market inertia, and i will have faith that in doing that and staying relevant and healthy that they are protecting my investment in the big picture. i have zero doubt that the perspective of the current MSB owners is a significant factor in their decisions. it's the foundation of everything they have done over the years.

    i don't know the details of this change myself, so am anxious to see the facts too, like others.

    let's see what happens, then ponder how that looks, keeping the long view in mind, before we get our panties in a bunch.

    just my 2 cents, YMMV.

    Finally a response that is reasonable and not self serving - well done Mike.

    Reading this thread, I am completely amused at all the complaining that MSB is going to reduce prices. That is a good thing.
    Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
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  23. #73

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by seriouslyhifi View Post
    No change in any Model is confirmed and they have no intention of changing anything at this moment.
    The only thing they are doing is give no more choices in every model they manufacture (4 models in total as we all know) but producing only one variation in each, which was their best and because of better production techniques and better efficiency now, they have reduced their price of each of their models by a decent margin and passed on the benefits to us end customers. The Reference DAC will now be available with Femto 33, their best Pre-amp and single Power Supply, the Select 2 with only the Femto 33 and Mono Power Supply, the Premier with only the Femto 93, the Premier Power Supply and better Pre-amp and the Discrete will be as it used to be. A substantial price drop for each of these models as production becomes more efficient and increases quantity. By the way they are backordered by 4 to 6 weeks for most of their models at the moment. No change in any model confirmed.
    I donít know. If youíre back ordered 4 to 6 weeks with current pricing, itís hard to see the reason why theyíd want reduced pricing.

    Reducing production cost is one of, if not the most important basic manufacturing principles to improve profit margin. If production becomes more efficient, why MSB wouldnít want to enjoy this increased profit margin especially if most models are backordered?

  24. #74

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Try ordering any model and you will have that answer.
    There is something called greed and then there is common business sense. When input costs get reduced and you are on top of the tree in your field, you can be greedy and make more money in the short run or pass the benefits on to your customers with reduced prices, thereby increasing sales further and actually earn more profits and with that goodwill which also translates into money. That is a smart businessman who is not shortsighted.

    Human beings mostly look at the dark side when someone is trying to do a good turn and always question the motive. I have been told that MSB have moved to a new and bigger factory as they could not keep up with the demand, ordered new and faster CNC Machines which now do the same job in one third the time, thereby saving time and labour costs and now instead of making batches of 20 Femto 33 clocks are now making batches of 100 Femto 33 clocks which have got the manufacturing cost of clocks down by 25% (they now only manufacturer Femto 33 and Femto 93) instead of 4 to 5 different clocks. Enough said and let us all enjoy the fact there there are yet good people in the industry who also believe in looking after their customers and are there for the long run in this tough industry.

  25. #75
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by seriouslyhifi View Post
    No change in any Model is confirmed and they have no intention of changing anything at this moment.
    The only thing they are doing is give no more choices in every model they manufacture (4 models in total as we all know) but producing only one variation in each, which was their best and because of better production techniques and better efficiency now, they have reduced their price of each of their models by a decent margin and passed on the benefits to us end customers. The Reference DAC will now be available with Femto 33, their best Pre-amp and single Power Supply, the Select 2 with only the Femto 33 and Mono Power Supply, the Premier with only the Femto 93, the Premier Power Supply and better Pre-amp and the Discrete will be as it used to be. A substantial price drop for each of these models as production becomes more efficient and increases quantity. By the way they are backordered by 4 to 6 weeks for most of their models at the moment. No change in any model confirmed.
    Do you know all this for a fact? Do you work for MSB or are you a MSB dealer?

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000ís with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  26. #76

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    I have been told this by people who know this limited knowledge yet. I have no idea on pricing though and waiting for what they declare finally when available. It is also common knowledge on their Facebook page that they have shifted to a new factory, installed new CNC machines and so on, so that is on the public domain. As far as business goes if they pull this off kudos to them. Let us wait for final answers when available and then take individual calls.

  27. #77

    MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by seriouslyhifi View Post
    Try ordering any model and you will have that answer.
    There is something called greed and then there is common business sense. When input costs get reduced and you are on top of the tree in your field, you can be greedy and make more money in the short run or pass the benefits on to your customers with reduced prices, thereby increasing sales further and actually earn more profits and with that goodwill which also translates into money. That is a smart businessman who is not shortsighted.

    Human beings mostly look at the dark side when someone is trying to do a good turn and always question the motive. I have been told that MSB have moved to a new and bigger factory as they could not keep up with the demand, ordered new and faster CNC Machines which now do the same job in one third the time, thereby saving time and labour costs and now instead of making batches of 20 Femto 33 clocks are now making batches of 100 Femto 33 clocks which have got the manufacturing cost of clocks down by 25% (they now only manufacturer Femto 33 and Femto 93) instead of 4 to 5 different clocks. Enough said and let us all enjoy the fact there there are yet good people in the industry who also believe in looking after their customers and are there for the long run in this tough industry.
    I donít doubt the new factory and lowering manufacturing cost. Kudos to MSB. Seems very competent team at the helm. I only doubt lowering prices when most models are 4-6 weeks backordered.

  28. #78
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by seriouslyhifi View Post
    I have been told this by people who know this limited knowledge yet. I have no idea on pricing though and waiting for what they declare finally when available. It is also common knowledge on their Facebook page that they have shifted to a new factory, installed new CNC machines and so on, so that is on the public domain. As far as business goes if they pull this off kudos to them. Let us wait for final answers when available and then take individual calls.
    Everyone knows about MSBís new factory and CNC machines from their Facebook page. What I was specifically referring to was that you stated in your first post that the price of each of MSBís DAC models would be substantially reduced due to manufacturing savings from eliminating the options on each model. I was under the impression that the final pricing decisions for each individual DAC model were not yet finalized and that some models may not receive any price reduction.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000ís with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  29. #79

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Apologise but have no firm info on pricing, but was only told that all 4 DAC model prices will be reduced and will now come in only 1 incarnation for each model. Let us wait to hear the actual facts. The other products they manufacture I have no idea at all.

  30. #80
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    very interesting.
    using multiple accounts/names potentially might turn you shizo tho.

  31. #81
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by seriouslyhifi View Post
    Apologise but have no firm info on pricing, but was only told that all 4 DAC model prices will be reduced and will now come in only 1 incarnation for each model. Let us wait to hear the actual facts. The other products they manufacture I have no idea at all.
    Not sure if going to one incarnation for each model is the way I would like them to move. I would neither require nor want to pay for pre-amp functions, usb or single ended outputs for example. I hope to perform another A/B with the Reference unit early this year. Pricing would have impact on whether I even consider borrowing a unit again.
    Jim

    D'Agostino Momentum M-400's & HD Pre-amp
    Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
    Digital: dCS Vivaldi DAC, Clock & Upsampler
    Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
    Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
    Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
    Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest

  32. #82
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    Not sure if going to one incarnation for each model is the way I would like them to move. I would neither require nor want to pay for pre-amp functions, usb or single ended outputs for example. I hope to perform another A/B with the Reference unit early this year. Pricing would have impact on whether I even consider borrowing a unit again.
    Hi Jim,

    You will still need their preamp module even if you use an external preamp with their DACs. You have to choose between balanced or single-ended outputs. Itís been this way for awhile. You will still have the choice of which digital input modules you want (Pro USB, Renderer V2, AES/EBU, S/PDIF, Pro ISL). You will no longer have the choice of the level of clock, number of power bases and level of preamp module. Almost everyone orders the same options on these items, the ones that maximize performance. There could be a decrease in the price of the Reference DAC. Stay tuned.

    Best,
    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000ís with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  33. #83

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    With the new pricing, the Ref seems like excellent value in the range. Heard it with the S500 stereoamp. Very impressed.
    Can anyone share how much an improvement is the Select 2 over Ref?
    Regards


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  34. #84

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    So do we know what the new prices are? Can't find anything
    Analog: VPI Aries 3, custom isolation/Magnetically stabilized JMW 10.5i/Ortofon A90/Modded & shielded Pass XP-25 Digital: Spectral 3000SL/Heavily modded Alpha DAC Amplification: Spectral DMC-30SV/DMA-500AR Speakers: Heavily modded MartinLogan (custom Mundorf xover, cabling, woofers; structural mods)/Modded REL Cabling: Shielded MIT Oracle 50ic,MA-X/Oracle 90.1 Power: Shunyata Denali 6000/S V2; Venom V10/V12 XC and NR cords, Typhon

  35. #85

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by Alectiong View Post
    With the new pricing, the Ref seems like excellent value in the range. Heard it with the S500 stereoamp. Very impressed.
    Can anyone share how much an improvement is the Select 2 over Ref?
    Regards


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I canít find any either. Do share.

  36. #86

    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Not on the website. I heard from dealers , and that Femto 33 and passive preamp are now standard on the Ref.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  37. #87
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    $24.5k - Premier (clock 93 and power base now standard)

    $49.5k - Reference (clock 33 and preamp now standard)

    I believe the renderer still is a $2k option for all dacs. There are no changes to the Discrete Iím told.
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Premier DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> YG Acoustics Hailey 2.2

  38. #88
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    $24.5k - Premier (clock 93 and power base now standard)

    $49.5k - Reference (clock 33 and preamp now standard)

    I believe the renderer still is a $2k option for all dacs. There are no changes to the Discrete Iím told.
    A MSB dealer had Discrete with the streamer module new for $7k. Not sure if thatís an indication of the new pricing.

  39. #89
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    Re: MSB new pricing model

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    A MSB dealer had Discrete with the streamer module new for $7k. Not sure if thatís an indication of the new pricing.
    The Discrete is not changing in price.

    And I would sure have loved to have seen that price of $7k because thatís a big no no.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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MSB new pricing model

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